is aa based on the book of matthew in the christian bible?someone just said it was to
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is aa based on the book of matthew in the christian bible?someone just said it was to
me here on sr.
If it is i would be interested to hear why matthew and not say mark luke or john
background raised a catholic, sober nearly 3 months, respect jesus and christianity, never been to aa
If it is i would be interested to hear why matthew and not say mark luke or john
background raised a catholic, sober nearly 3 months, respect jesus and christianity, never been to aa
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No, the Big Book was written by Bill Wilson, the founder of AA, and it is based on the recovery experiences of the first 100 alcoholics who got sober in AA. AA grew out of the "Oxford Movement" which was a protestant group that believed in the ideas of living a better life by practicing the principles that later became the basis for the 12 Steps. AA broke off from the Oxford Movement early on, and when they wrote the Book, they deliberately wrote it so it would be applicable to people with any religious beliefs or none (there is the chapter, "We Agnostics").
The Big Book is not at all based on any part of the Bible, although there are some concepts in it that are based on religious teaching.
The Big Book is not at all based on any part of the Bible, although there are some concepts in it that are based on religious teaching.
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Ok someone else has just told me in response to life the meaning thread that the some guidelines to this are found in aa which according to another sr member takes its ideas from the book of matthew thats why im thinking this way
I have an interest in theology see - dont say goto aa :P im not aa bashing
I have an interest in theology see - dont say goto aa :P im not aa bashing
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 567
I recently did a personal research on what it was all about, the controversy, the rumours etc etc.
I used Google a lot, typed in things like "The oxford group"
Got as much "evidence" as I could in the spare time I have.
In conclusion,
it seemed at the time, organized religion did not favor Oxford Group practices. There was no church to speak of, they just met and had their own concept of 1st century Christianity, mainly to do with Action, not so much on Preaching.
I am neither Catholic nor Protestant, nor Atheist or Agnostic.
I just like history and I find it amusing to read about their squabbles over nothing really. But as Bill W writes in the BB, I tend to take that idea of his to and leave it there, it's good.
For example..., they taught..,
However, Alcoholism does not discriminate.
The atheist were hit with it, and so was a catholic and protestant.
All 3 "blind mice" were victims.
So we alcoholics, take what we need and leave the rest behind.
But the atheist still was not comfortable with the "God word", so they added "as we understood.....,
To me that means, lets get on with it, and let the wanna be apostles be.
Early AA members split from the Oxford groups, because alcoholism is Primary, and the Catholic hierarchy gave it's alcoholic members an ultimatum.
Either they are Oxford, or they are Catholic. To chose Catholic meant no recovery, to chose Oxford meant Recovery but no Catholic....
So they split.....,
The detailed story can also be found here..,
Chapter 3.10 -Clarence
and
Anne Smiths Journel-Oxford Group (Dr. Bob's wife.)
There is a lot lot more, some gems can be found at book auctions and bulk book sales.
Some people just do not understand what is being thrown away.
I used Google a lot, typed in things like "The oxford group"
Got as much "evidence" as I could in the spare time I have.
In conclusion,
it seemed at the time, organized religion did not favor Oxford Group practices. There was no church to speak of, they just met and had their own concept of 1st century Christianity, mainly to do with Action, not so much on Preaching.
I am neither Catholic nor Protestant, nor Atheist or Agnostic.
I just like history and I find it amusing to read about their squabbles over nothing really. But as Bill W writes in the BB, I tend to take that idea of his to and leave it there, it's good.
For example..., they taught..,
CONSTRUCTIVE FORGIVENESS
Book: "The Eight Points Of The Oxford Group”
The Lord's prayer has a straight, strong word to
say on this matter which we should keep before us. It is no use praying for forgiveness unless we
are prepared to practice it. A lingering bitterness towards others renders us incapable of being restored to fellowship with God.
Book: "The Eight Points Of The Oxford Group”
The Lord's prayer has a straight, strong word to
say on this matter which we should keep before us. It is no use praying for forgiveness unless we
are prepared to practice it. A lingering bitterness towards others renders us incapable of being restored to fellowship with God.
The atheist were hit with it, and so was a catholic and protestant.
All 3 "blind mice" were victims.
So we alcoholics, take what we need and leave the rest behind.
But the atheist still was not comfortable with the "God word", so they added "as we understood.....,
To me that means, lets get on with it, and let the wanna be apostles be.
Early AA members split from the Oxford groups, because alcoholism is Primary, and the Catholic hierarchy gave it's alcoholic members an ultimatum.
Either they are Oxford, or they are Catholic. To chose Catholic meant no recovery, to chose Oxford meant Recovery but no Catholic....
So they split.....,
The detailed story can also be found here..,
Chapter 3.10 -Clarence
and
Anne Smiths Journel-Oxford Group (Dr. Bob's wife.)
There is a lot lot more, some gems can be found at book auctions and bulk book sales.
Some people just do not understand what is being thrown away.
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 567
Correction
I just like history and I find it amusing to read about their squabbles over nothing really.
That is out of my calmness and avoid it like a plague.
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Location: United Kingdom
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Wow Pete i find your response real calm and balanced. Im not sure if i am now codependent i guess i am still so although i have been helped by folk [anna] and have some recovery resources on how to correct unproductive thinking.
I know that i used to be a bit of a confidence fan, and felt awed by anyone with confidence, i have met such folk bashing of aa. Probably in my recovery i will continue to improve my feeling about me-and indirectly enough carry on with the realization that confidence alone does not a decent balanced or even strong person make.
Someone with whom i was associating has been pulling aa to peices so thats been in my mind, furthermore i do enjoy theology and keen to understand aa [though please dont badger me to go-i mean you can if you wish but i will go when i am ready if i chose]
I know that i used to be a bit of a confidence fan, and felt awed by anyone with confidence, i have met such folk bashing of aa. Probably in my recovery i will continue to improve my feeling about me-and indirectly enough carry on with the realization that confidence alone does not a decent balanced or even strong person make.
Someone with whom i was associating has been pulling aa to peices so thats been in my mind, furthermore i do enjoy theology and keen to understand aa [though please dont badger me to go-i mean you can if you wish but i will go when i am ready if i chose]
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Posts: 270
Originally Posted by LexieCat 
No, the Big Book was written by Bill Wilson, the founder of AA, and it is based on the recovery experiences of the first 100 alcoholics who got sober in AA. AA grew out of the "Oxford Movement" which was a protestant group that believed in the ideas of living a better life by practicing the principles that later became the basis for the 12 Steps. AA broke off from the Oxford Movement early on, and when they wrote the Book, they deliberately wrote it so it would be applicable to people with any religious beliefs or none (there is the chapter, "We Agnostics").
The Big Book is not at all based on any part of the Bible, although there are some concepts in it that are based on religious teaching.
The Big Book is not at all based on any part of the Bible, although there are some concepts in it that are based on religious teaching.
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 567
I just had to know kev, I just needed to know where it all came from.
Ha! those trying to rip AA apart !
All it does is delay the stacked deck of cards, sooner or later the real Ace will shine through, and it won't be in their hand.
And they know it.
Call their bluff and dare them to go to a AA convention. I never been to one yet, but heard lots of good things about it, 70 thousand people all doing the Serenity Prayer ?
AA don't work huh ?
Ha! those trying to rip AA apart !
All it does is delay the stacked deck of cards, sooner or later the real Ace will shine through, and it won't be in their hand.
And they know it.
Call their bluff and dare them to go to a AA convention. I never been to one yet, but heard lots of good things about it, 70 thousand people all doing the Serenity Prayer ?
AA don't work huh ?
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 102
Hey Kev, If you are really interested in the origins of aa, it's religious roots and theology Dick B's web site can be helpful. aa while claiming not to be religious absolutely has its roots embedded in religion. I'm not sure how the gospel pertains to aa but is simply christian lore, myth handed down for thousands of years. Theology is an amazing study if you have the patience to sift through tons of superstition and fairy tale. I hope you find the answers you seek.
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Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 273
Hey Kevin...maybe this is what you're thinking of?
1. Realize I’m not God; I admit that I am powerless to control my tendency to do the wrong thing and my life is unmanageable.
”Happy are those who know they are spiritually poor.” Matthew 5:3
2. Earnestly believe that God exists, that I matter to Him, and that He has the power to help me recover.
”Happy are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.” Matthew 5:4
3. Consciously choose to commit all my life and will to Christ’s care and control.
”Happy are the meek.“ Matthew 5:5
4. Openly examine and confess my faults to God, to myself and to another person whom I trust.
"Happy are the pure in heart." Matthew 5:8
5. Voluntarily submit to any and all changes God wants to make in my life.
"Happy are those whose greatest desire is to do what God requires." Matthew 5:6
6. Evaluate all my relationships, offer forgiveness to those who have hurt me and make amends for harm I’ve done to others when possible, except when doing so would harm them or others.
"Happy are the merciful" Matthew 5:7 "Happy are the peacemakers" Matthew 5:9
7. Reserve a daily time with God for self-examination, Bible reading, and prayer in order to know God and His work for my life and gain the power to follow His will.
8. Yield myself to be used by God to bring this good news to others, both by my example and by my words.
“Happy are those who are persecuted because they do what God requires.”
Matthew 5:10
1. Realize I’m not God; I admit that I am powerless to control my tendency to do the wrong thing and my life is unmanageable.
”Happy are those who know they are spiritually poor.” Matthew 5:3
2. Earnestly believe that God exists, that I matter to Him, and that He has the power to help me recover.
”Happy are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.” Matthew 5:4
3. Consciously choose to commit all my life and will to Christ’s care and control.
”Happy are the meek.“ Matthew 5:5
4. Openly examine and confess my faults to God, to myself and to another person whom I trust.
"Happy are the pure in heart." Matthew 5:8
5. Voluntarily submit to any and all changes God wants to make in my life.
"Happy are those whose greatest desire is to do what God requires." Matthew 5:6
6. Evaluate all my relationships, offer forgiveness to those who have hurt me and make amends for harm I’ve done to others when possible, except when doing so would harm them or others.
"Happy are the merciful" Matthew 5:7 "Happy are the peacemakers" Matthew 5:9
7. Reserve a daily time with God for self-examination, Bible reading, and prayer in order to know God and His work for my life and gain the power to follow His will.
8. Yield myself to be used by God to bring this good news to others, both by my example and by my words.
“Happy are those who are persecuted because they do what God requires.”
Matthew 5:10
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Originally Posted by kevinlednylon
me here on sr.
If it is i would be interested to hear why matthew and not say mark luke or john
background raised a catholic, sober nearly 3 months, respect jesus and christianity, never been to aa
If it is i would be interested to hear why matthew and not say mark luke or john
background raised a catholic, sober nearly 3 months, respect jesus and christianity, never been to aa
Actually AAs' roots lie here, despite what some claim.
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 102
Sailorjohn, If I might..I went to the site you provided. This site provides an opinion on the influence Jung had on Wilson. I won't reiterate the opening statement provided by the group (The big book bunch) but suffice it to say it admits to having no affiliation to aa, nor could speak for aa.
After it's clear qualifications on who they are and are not, they started their entrance into the opinion with..."The tale that follows is that of Dr. Jung responding to Bill’s communication thanking him for his initial influence." Now surly you see the part that is suspect...yep...it's the 2 words.."the tale".
Interesting letters tho
After it's clear qualifications on who they are and are not, they started their entrance into the opinion with..."The tale that follows is that of Dr. Jung responding to Bill’s communication thanking him for his initial influence." Now surly you see the part that is suspect...yep...it's the 2 words.."the tale".
Interesting letters tho
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Bill W was supposedly reading the sermon on the mount by Emmet Fox when he compiled the steps...as you know the book sermon on the mount is primarily based around the book of Matthew...hence the influence from the book of Matthew if you want to to go back right to the source...
I was the one who replied to Kevin's private message with this information...
Kevin if you wanted to keep this discussion in an open thread we could have done that in the last one...isn't this all about you trying to find out what the meaning of life is...if you fancy a change in your life go to AA...i guarantee the old timers will have much more info than me:-)
I was the one who replied to Kevin's private message with this information...
Kevin if you wanted to keep this discussion in an open thread we could have done that in the last one...isn't this all about you trying to find out what the meaning of life is...if you fancy a change in your life go to AA...i guarantee the old timers will have much more info than me:-)
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As you can see Kevin, everyone has an opinion....from A to Z.
If you really want to find out what AA is about, I think there's only one way to do that, mate - go yourself.
Sometimes I think we just have to launch ourselves into something new without necessarily having all the answers - that's why they call it a leap of faith
D
If you really want to find out what AA is about, I think there's only one way to do that, mate - go yourself.
Sometimes I think we just have to launch ourselves into something new without necessarily having all the answers - that's why they call it a leap of faith
D
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AA from what I can tell and I have done a little research was based on Frank Buchman's Oxford Group.
Some of the 12 Steps can be seen in the 5 Procedures of the Oxford Group:
The Five Procedures included:
1. giving in to God,
2. listening to God's directions,
3. checking guidance,
4. making restitution, and
5. sharing one's sins openly.
It is common knowledge that Bill W was a follower of this group. I don't think there is anything wrong with the teachings, but alot of the AA stuff does seem to mirror it. IMO
Some of the 12 Steps can be seen in the 5 Procedures of the Oxford Group:
The Five Procedures included:
1. giving in to God,
2. listening to God's directions,
3. checking guidance,
4. making restitution, and
5. sharing one's sins openly.
It is common knowledge that Bill W was a follower of this group. I don't think there is anything wrong with the teachings, but alot of the AA stuff does seem to mirror it. IMO
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