Powerless vs. Willpower
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 581
Powerless vs. Willpower
Once we decide we are alcoholic, the action we take to save ourselves is directly connected to exactly how powerless we believe we are. As a newcomer to recovery, I had to be very clear where I lined up on this concept.
We can all stop drinking for a period of time. The problem has always been staying stopped. We are conditioned to believe that willpower will ultimately decide whether we sustain abstinence or not. When I feel weak or tempted, can I use my will to overcome the urge?
Willpower comes in many forms. It's simple white-knuckling-- hunkering down and waiting for the urge to pass. It's picking up the phone and calling another alcoholic. It's running to a meeting when I feel overwhelmed by an urge. It's exercising, reading-- whatever activities might take our mind off the gnawing urge. These are all good actions to take to keep from drinking.
But powerlessness means that, either quickly or down the road, willpower will not work. Anyone in AA who has accepted the first step-- "Admitted we were powerless over alcohol and our lives had become unmanageable"-- has also admitted that willpower failed them, and will continue to fail them. That left to their own devices, dependent on their own abilities and power, they will drink again, regardless of the consequences.
After years of not being able to stay stopped based on my own efforts, why would I think that this time I would be able to stay stopped based on my own efforts?
When we admit powerlessness, we are in a state of utter hopelessness. We have admitted failure. We have no power. Yet it is in this state of complete reduction that we are finally ready to take the steps needed to find a power that can solve the drink problem. This is the spiritual program of action that is Alcoholics Anonymous.
Do you stay sober based on willpower, or an admission of powerlessness?
We can all stop drinking for a period of time. The problem has always been staying stopped. We are conditioned to believe that willpower will ultimately decide whether we sustain abstinence or not. When I feel weak or tempted, can I use my will to overcome the urge?
Willpower comes in many forms. It's simple white-knuckling-- hunkering down and waiting for the urge to pass. It's picking up the phone and calling another alcoholic. It's running to a meeting when I feel overwhelmed by an urge. It's exercising, reading-- whatever activities might take our mind off the gnawing urge. These are all good actions to take to keep from drinking.
But powerlessness means that, either quickly or down the road, willpower will not work. Anyone in AA who has accepted the first step-- "Admitted we were powerless over alcohol and our lives had become unmanageable"-- has also admitted that willpower failed them, and will continue to fail them. That left to their own devices, dependent on their own abilities and power, they will drink again, regardless of the consequences.
After years of not being able to stay stopped based on my own efforts, why would I think that this time I would be able to stay stopped based on my own efforts?
When we admit powerlessness, we are in a state of utter hopelessness. We have admitted failure. We have no power. Yet it is in this state of complete reduction that we are finally ready to take the steps needed to find a power that can solve the drink problem. This is the spiritual program of action that is Alcoholics Anonymous.
Do you stay sober based on willpower, or an admission of powerlessness?
Journey of Recovery
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 621
I stay sober based on an admission of powerlessness over alcohol. I have hope and have had a spiritual awakening due to working the program and I now stand a chance of recovery. Thanks for your post!
Ethanol Intolerant
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Cascadia
Posts: 665
Willpower is like the super turbo boost button on video game: It works only for a limited duration of time. It needs time to recharge between uses. And the results of using it are somewhat unpredictable. It is a handy tool to have, and it sure is exciting when you mash that button, but if you use it too often you won't have it when you need it, and using it at the wrong time can cause a most spectacular crash.
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 581
Originally Posted by recycle 
Willpower is like the super turbo boost button on video game: It works only for a limited duration of time. It needs time to recharge between uses. And the results of using it are somewhat unpredictable. It is a handy tool to have, and it sure is exciting when you mash that button, but if you use it too often you won't have it when you need it, and using it at the wrong time can cause a most spectacular crash.
Proud Neonephalist
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: North Coast BC Canada
Posts: 1,141
Seven months and counting on the first try, but I wouldn't say I was using willpower alone. Science based information regarding how alcohol has changed the functioning of my brain, how my brain would react over time when it didn't get any more booze, and how those reactions would diminish in intensity and frequency over time is how I've stayed sober.
So far, so good...
Murray
So far, so good...
Murray
I got nothin'
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: My house.
Posts: 4,890
It's always my choice to drink or not drink.
If I should choose to drink I'm the one who deals with the consequences.
I'm not powerless or helpless--I know when the sh!t hits the fan and I'm in the abyss it's up to me to reach out for help.
I'm human. Humans are social beings. Most humans thrive off of social interaction in some capacity. I admit that I cannot control my depression because I want to--I need meds and therapy to deal with what's going on in my brain. I cannot provide meds and therapy for myself. I must ask others for help with this, and that's okay.
The time for excuses has past--no one forces me to drink or not drink. I own my behavior.
If I should choose to drink I'm the one who deals with the consequences.
I'm not powerless or helpless--I know when the sh!t hits the fan and I'm in the abyss it's up to me to reach out for help.
I'm human. Humans are social beings. Most humans thrive off of social interaction in some capacity. I admit that I cannot control my depression because I want to--I need meds and therapy to deal with what's going on in my brain. I cannot provide meds and therapy for myself. I must ask others for help with this, and that's okay.
The time for excuses has past--no one forces me to drink or not drink. I own my behavior.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: SoCal CA
Posts: 1,319
I am glad that the AA program works for many people. Admitting you are powerless to become powerful doesn't make much sense to me, and by relying on the faith healing aspect of AA and the 12 step program to help you quit drinking then to say you aren't using willpower again seems a mystery to me.
If someone isn't forcing you not to drink, and you are not drinking, I don't understand how that wouldn't be considered "willpower". I like to take credit for what I acheive, and just as using willpower will not be 100% effective in every alcoholic, neither will the AA program even if you are working the steps. People will fail, but even if you fail once or twice or thrice, as long as you truly want sobriety you will ultimately succeed. Good luck to everyone in whatever program they choose, and remember there is more than one way to accomplish sobriety.
If someone isn't forcing you not to drink, and you are not drinking, I don't understand how that wouldn't be considered "willpower". I like to take credit for what I acheive, and just as using willpower will not be 100% effective in every alcoholic, neither will the AA program even if you are working the steps. People will fail, but even if you fail once or twice or thrice, as long as you truly want sobriety you will ultimately succeed. Good luck to everyone in whatever program they choose, and remember there is more than one way to accomplish sobriety.
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Join Date: May 2003
Location: Pasadena, CA
Posts: 1,539
Originally Posted by FrothyJay
Once we decide we are alcoholic, the action we take to save ourselves is directly connected to exactly how powerless we believe we are. As a newcomer to recovery, I had to be very clear where I lined up on this concept.
We can all stop drinking for a period of time. The problem has always been staying stopped. We are conditioned to believe that willpower will ultimately decide whether we sustain abstinence or not. When I feel weak or tempted, can I use my will to overcome the urge?
Willpower comes in many forms. It's simple white-knuckling-- hunkering down and waiting for the urge to pass. It's picking up the phone and calling another alcoholic. It's running to a meeting when I feel overwhelmed by an urge. It's exercising, reading-- whatever activities might take our mind off the gnawing urge. These are all good actions to take to keep from drinking.
But powerlessness means that, either quickly or down the road, willpower will not work. Anyone in AA who has accepted the first step-- "Admitted we were powerless over alcohol and our lives had become unmanageable"-- has also admitted that willpower failed them, and will continue to fail them. That left to their own devices, dependent on their own abilities and power, they will drink again, regardless of the consequences.
After years of not being able to stay stopped based on my own efforts, why would I think that this time I would be able to stay stopped based on my own efforts?
When we admit powerlessness, we are in a state of utter hopelessness. We have admitted failure. We have no power. Yet it is in this state of complete reduction that we are finally ready to take the steps needed to find a power that can solve the drink problem. This is the spiritual program of action that is Alcoholics Anonymous.
Do you stay sober based on willpower, or an admission of powerlessness?
We can all stop drinking for a period of time. The problem has always been staying stopped. We are conditioned to believe that willpower will ultimately decide whether we sustain abstinence or not. When I feel weak or tempted, can I use my will to overcome the urge?
Willpower comes in many forms. It's simple white-knuckling-- hunkering down and waiting for the urge to pass. It's picking up the phone and calling another alcoholic. It's running to a meeting when I feel overwhelmed by an urge. It's exercising, reading-- whatever activities might take our mind off the gnawing urge. These are all good actions to take to keep from drinking.
But powerlessness means that, either quickly or down the road, willpower will not work. Anyone in AA who has accepted the first step-- "Admitted we were powerless over alcohol and our lives had become unmanageable"-- has also admitted that willpower failed them, and will continue to fail them. That left to their own devices, dependent on their own abilities and power, they will drink again, regardless of the consequences.
After years of not being able to stay stopped based on my own efforts, why would I think that this time I would be able to stay stopped based on my own efforts?
When we admit powerlessness, we are in a state of utter hopelessness. We have admitted failure. We have no power. Yet it is in this state of complete reduction that we are finally ready to take the steps needed to find a power that can solve the drink problem. This is the spiritual program of action that is Alcoholics Anonymous.
Do you stay sober based on willpower, or an admission of powerlessness?
And to add a bit to that, the literature and Harry Tiebout MD speaks at length of complete surrender.
Another paramount principle!
Also Toronto speaks of admit AND accept.......
Thanks men!!!
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
AA is for people who cannot stop and stay stopped on their own willpower. If willpower works for you, go for it.
It didn't work so well for me. I could "control" my drinking for brief periods of time, but they never lasted. I don't believe, for myself, that it was a failure of willpower. In the past I've successfully used willpower to lose sixty pounds. It's just that willpower wasn't enough for this particular problem. Admitting powerlessness was key to my recovery.
It didn't work so well for me. I could "control" my drinking for brief periods of time, but they never lasted. I don't believe, for myself, that it was a failure of willpower. In the past I've successfully used willpower to lose sixty pounds. It's just that willpower wasn't enough for this particular problem. Admitting powerlessness was key to my recovery.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 20,458
Originally Posted by Supercrew
I am glad that the AA program works for many people. Admitting you are powerless to become powerful doesn't make much sense to me, and by relying on the faith healing aspect of AA and the 12 step program to help you quit drinking then to say you aren't using willpower again seems a mystery to me.
If someone isn't forcing you not to drink, and you are not drinking, I don't understand how that wouldn't be considered "willpower". I like to take credit for what I acheive, and just as using willpower will not be 100% effective in every alcoholic, neither will the AA program even if you are working the steps. People will fail, but even if you fail once or twice or thrice, as long as you truly want sobriety you will ultimately succeed. Good luck to everyone in whatever program they choose, and remember there is more than one way to accomplish sobriety.
If someone isn't forcing you not to drink, and you are not drinking, I don't understand how that wouldn't be considered "willpower". I like to take credit for what I acheive, and just as using willpower will not be 100% effective in every alcoholic, neither will the AA program even if you are working the steps. People will fail, but even if you fail once or twice or thrice, as long as you truly want sobriety you will ultimately succeed. Good luck to everyone in whatever program they choose, and remember there is more than one way to accomplish sobriety.
There are many ways to stop self-abuse with alcohol...AA is only one choice and it is NOT the only choice.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,947
It seems that frequently I read people's posts by those who very clearly feel that an admission of powerlessness is to admit weakness. No one would say that,since I am powerless over, say, a speeding locomotive and hence, unlike superman, and cannot stop it, that I am weak... Yet alcohol... alcohol, to some, to admit powerlessness is to admit weakness... hmmm, is this an implication that there may be a moral weakness at play? That admitting powerlessness is to admit a moral weakness..? Is that it? IDK, I am asking.
I attach no morality to being powerless over alcohol, just as I would attach none to admitting that I am powerless over a locomotive...
So I stay off the tracks...
No big deal... I find that the spiritual solution helps me to do just that...
I attach no morality to being powerless over alcohol, just as I would attach none to admitting that I am powerless over a locomotive...
So I stay off the tracks...
No big deal... I find that the spiritual solution helps me to do just that...
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 581
Some great responses, thanks.
I agree there are multiple ways to get and stay sober. I don't know much about any other than AA, so I certainly can't comment on them.
AA, though, is clear that willpower fails. We have a text book that tells us this over and over again. If we're in AA, we should be carrying that message, otherwise we're distorting the program we claim to belong to. Unfortunately, in my experience, its a message that is faint and diluted in the rooms of AA today.
And the AA text says that if you are able to quit based on willpower, you are not an alcoholic. I had to understand that quitting for many years and then slipping was not a demonstration that willpower worked, but that it ultimately failed. I needed a program that showed me how I can be done for good and for all.
I agree there are multiple ways to get and stay sober. I don't know much about any other than AA, so I certainly can't comment on them.
AA, though, is clear that willpower fails. We have a text book that tells us this over and over again. If we're in AA, we should be carrying that message, otherwise we're distorting the program we claim to belong to. Unfortunately, in my experience, its a message that is faint and diluted in the rooms of AA today.
And the AA text says that if you are able to quit based on willpower, you are not an alcoholic. I had to understand that quitting for many years and then slipping was not a demonstration that willpower worked, but that it ultimately failed. I needed a program that showed me how I can be done for good and for all.
Your attitude, not your aptitude, will determine your altitude
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oxnard (The Nard), CA, USA.
Posts: 13,955
Willpower maybe
I found through trial and error its best that I stay committed to a practice that has improved the overall quality of my life. I have decided that my life is my own. If I am the problem then I am the cure. That is, nothing outside of me can make the changes that I need to make. Its an inside job for me. Sure there are things that can help me decide what changes I need to make. Things like (but not limited too) peer support, information, instruction and examples can lead my volition along the proper path. Ultimately the choice is mine to make: practice recovery principles (secular ones for me) or continue on a path of destruction.
Addiction may be extremely difficult to overcome, however IMO it is not so all powerful that it would render a strong commitment to a good addiction recovery program useless.
Thanks for the thought provoking question Jay.
I found through trial and error its best that I stay committed to a practice that has improved the overall quality of my life. I have decided that my life is my own. If I am the problem then I am the cure. That is, nothing outside of me can make the changes that I need to make. Its an inside job for me. Sure there are things that can help me decide what changes I need to make. Things like (but not limited too) peer support, information, instruction and examples can lead my volition along the proper path. Ultimately the choice is mine to make: practice recovery principles (secular ones for me) or continue on a path of destruction.
Addiction may be extremely difficult to overcome, however IMO it is not so all powerful that it would render a strong commitment to a good addiction recovery program useless.
Thanks for the thought provoking question Jay.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: SoCal CA
Posts: 1,319
Originally Posted by Mark75
It seems that frequently I read people's posts by those who very clearly feel that an admission of powerlessness is to admit weakness. No one would say that,since I am powerless over, say, a speeding locomotive and hence, unlike superman, and cannot stop it, that I am weak... Yet alcohol... alcohol, to some, to admit powerlessness is to admit weakness... hmmm, is this an implication that there may be a moral weakness at play? That admitting powerlessness is to admit a moral weakness..? Is that it? IDK, I am asking.
I attach no morality to being powerless over alcohol, just as I would attach none to admitting that I am powerless over a locomotive...
So I stay off the tracks... No big deal... I find that the spiritual solution helps me to do just that...
I attach no morality to being powerless over alcohol, just as I would attach none to admitting that I am powerless over a locomotive...
So I stay off the tracks...
No big deal... I find that the spiritual solution helps me to do just that...The reason why people have a hard time using willpower is because their will to drink is greater than their will not to. AA gets people to believe it's not their decision, and they use the "group think" method to keep people sober for the first 90 days, which is the time frame for willpower to break most habits, and they then put the spirituality aspect along with the 12 step program to keep members feeling like they a part of a close knit group. This raises the chemicals in the brain that help control cravings. It is a great program the works for many people, by offering hope and support, but there isn't anything magic about it.
Again, can someone please explain how if you are not physically being held down and not permitted to drink, yet you are of your own free will not choosing to drink, how is it not considered willpower. Have you been brainwashed of your willpower????....No one is forcing you not to drink, you are not drinking, yet you won't say that it is ultimately your brain telling your hand not to pick up the drink?
Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 102
Nice post Supercrew! Exactly why I said willpower is the cornerstone to everyones recovery. Without it no-one would ever get sober, even those who are waiting on God.
I too drank like you, impossible to moderate once started. I liked it so much damn near killed me.
I too drank like you, impossible to moderate once started. I liked it so much damn near killed me.
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