He's in Recovery, Why Do I Still Feel So Manipulated?
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Join Date: Jul 2007
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He's in Recovery, Why Do I Still Feel So Manipulated?
Long backstory, won't get into it all here--this story will be long enough. XAH is sober almost 60 days, went through a 28-day rehab, doing outpatient living in a sober house, got a job, going to AA, all should be well.
First, he found out the other day that they are filing charges on him for a DUI that happened almost a year ago that he thought he had escaped because they did not file the charges at first. He also was not actually driving when the police officer picked him up, had gotten in the car but did not put the key in ignition, so he thought maybe that's why they didn't file, but now they have and he'll probably do jail time. So this of course was a big stressor for him; his sister called me the day he found out and asked me to please call him and try to help calm him down. I did call him later; he sounded pretty well actually--said he couldn't do anything about it now but accept the consequences, etc. etc.
I went no-contact with him at the beg. of Sept. after he lost yet another job due to drunkenness and was staring homelessness in the face. I did not talk to him again until he wrote me from rehab two months later. I sent a letter with his sister on his "visiting day" in rehab which basically said I was proud of him, that I had detached and went no contact for my own sanity, and that I would help him out a little bit to get started (which I did, I paid for the deposit on his sober house) but that I was in a new relationship and he needed to respect that.
Surprise, surprise! He has not respected that! What started out as an occasional phone call, usually about our daughter, has turned into him getting pissed at me that I'm not available to talk every day, and when I tell him I'm in a new relationship, he says, "Yeah right, it must not be that strong of a relationship." We've been having this same convo., or a variant thereof, for almost two years. I guess he thinks since I have yet to move in with or get engaged to bf that we must not be serious, but we are, and my previous no-contact finally allowed us to get closer. And I am honest with my bf about all of this, about my struggles to maintain good boundaries with xah, etc., plus we've attended therapy together and will continue to do so, so I'm not really asking about that, so much.
It feels wrong to me, somehow, to go no contact again when he is sober and trying to recover. I have very much curtailed the contact. He doesn't know my cell #, and is too scared to call my parents home where I live, so he only ever calls me on my work phone, which I usually don't answer. So I only talk to him one or two times a week, and I control when. But now he's trying to weasel his way in for more contact, again. Just last night, he told me ;that he was probably going to relapse because he couldn't have his family back the way he wanted, then today he leaves a message on my work phone saying that he needs to talk to me at lunch, that he takes back what he said, that he knows he can't control me but wants a relationship with our daughter, but that if I am "mean or confrontational" to him it is going to make it harder for him to stay sober. So, I just don't know what the hell to do, I feel as crazy as ever again, I know I should probably go no-contact but dont' know if I'm strong enough to do it when I know he's sober and trying, I know I'm being manipulated but I do want to encourage him to keep trying in recovery, I don't want to hurt my bf....What I WANT is for XAH to say, "It would help me if you'd stay on friendly terms with me, and I think it would help our daughter, but I know you have your own life to live and there's no going back for us romantically," but that is never, ever going to happen, apparently. And then, every once in a while, I have that smidgeon of doubt where I think maybe I should give him another chance down the line if he can stay sober this time, although I don't want to, but he gets me so convinced that that's what truly loving and loyal people do..........
Oh, and if it's not apparent, I'm feeling pretty vulnerable and crappy right now, so I'd be more receptive to the gentle form of "tough love" than the tough form, if you know what I mean...
First, he found out the other day that they are filing charges on him for a DUI that happened almost a year ago that he thought he had escaped because they did not file the charges at first. He also was not actually driving when the police officer picked him up, had gotten in the car but did not put the key in ignition, so he thought maybe that's why they didn't file, but now they have and he'll probably do jail time. So this of course was a big stressor for him; his sister called me the day he found out and asked me to please call him and try to help calm him down. I did call him later; he sounded pretty well actually--said he couldn't do anything about it now but accept the consequences, etc. etc.
I went no-contact with him at the beg. of Sept. after he lost yet another job due to drunkenness and was staring homelessness in the face. I did not talk to him again until he wrote me from rehab two months later. I sent a letter with his sister on his "visiting day" in rehab which basically said I was proud of him, that I had detached and went no contact for my own sanity, and that I would help him out a little bit to get started (which I did, I paid for the deposit on his sober house) but that I was in a new relationship and he needed to respect that.
Surprise, surprise! He has not respected that! What started out as an occasional phone call, usually about our daughter, has turned into him getting pissed at me that I'm not available to talk every day, and when I tell him I'm in a new relationship, he says, "Yeah right, it must not be that strong of a relationship." We've been having this same convo., or a variant thereof, for almost two years. I guess he thinks since I have yet to move in with or get engaged to bf that we must not be serious, but we are, and my previous no-contact finally allowed us to get closer. And I am honest with my bf about all of this, about my struggles to maintain good boundaries with xah, etc., plus we've attended therapy together and will continue to do so, so I'm not really asking about that, so much.
It feels wrong to me, somehow, to go no contact again when he is sober and trying to recover. I have very much curtailed the contact. He doesn't know my cell #, and is too scared to call my parents home where I live, so he only ever calls me on my work phone, which I usually don't answer. So I only talk to him one or two times a week, and I control when. But now he's trying to weasel his way in for more contact, again. Just last night, he told me ;that he was probably going to relapse because he couldn't have his family back the way he wanted, then today he leaves a message on my work phone saying that he needs to talk to me at lunch, that he takes back what he said, that he knows he can't control me but wants a relationship with our daughter, but that if I am "mean or confrontational" to him it is going to make it harder for him to stay sober. So, I just don't know what the hell to do, I feel as crazy as ever again, I know I should probably go no-contact but dont' know if I'm strong enough to do it when I know he's sober and trying, I know I'm being manipulated but I do want to encourage him to keep trying in recovery, I don't want to hurt my bf....What I WANT is for XAH to say, "It would help me if you'd stay on friendly terms with me, and I think it would help our daughter, but I know you have your own life to live and there's no going back for us romantically," but that is never, ever going to happen, apparently. And then, every once in a while, I have that smidgeon of doubt where I think maybe I should give him another chance down the line if he can stay sober this time, although I don't want to, but he gets me so convinced that that's what truly loving and loyal people do..........
Oh, and if it's not apparent, I'm feeling pretty vulnerable and crappy right now, so I'd be more receptive to the gentle form of "tough love" than the tough form, if you know what I mean...
RIP Sweet Suki
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: In my sanctuary, my home
Posts: 39,915
Well, I agree that he is manipulating you. He knows you well enough to know that you have hopes for him to continue in his recovery. He uses that knowledge to make you feel guilty and responsible for his well-being. What I don't understand is why your current boyfriend is willing to put up with all of this. He must be an exceptionally patient and understanding person. While that's great, what is happening with you and your ex is not really fair to him. Unfortunately, you are the only one who can put a stop to it, and unless you do that, nothing is going to change. None of this was said to be mean, it's just food for thought. You really need to decide what you want and then act accordingly.
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And how do I put a stop to it? Is no-contact again my only option? If so, how should I work that with my daughter? I'm truly not trying to be dense, just trying to decide what is the best way to put a stop to it. I felt like my letter given to him during a counseling session in rehab WAS my way of "putting a stop to it", you know? I feel like I just keep saying the same thing over and over, and it never seems to change anything.
What I want is to be able to pursue my relationship with my bf properly, and I also want the father of my child to continue in his recovery. And I'm starting to feel like those two things apparently need to be mutually exclusive. Even though I know rationally that if he relapses, it's not my fault, it's hard to believe that when what you hear is, "If I relapse, it'll be because I don't have hope to get my family back together."
What I want is to be able to pursue my relationship with my bf properly, and I also want the father of my child to continue in his recovery. And I'm starting to feel like those two things apparently need to be mutually exclusive. Even though I know rationally that if he relapses, it's not my fault, it's hard to believe that when what you hear is, "If I relapse, it'll be because I don't have hope to get my family back together."
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Join Date: Aug 2009
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A couple of things stood out to me.
First - remind yourself of the three C's. Find a way to believe these, right down to your core.
You did not cause his alcoholism (or recovery or relapse).
You can not control his alcoholism (or recovery or relapse).
You can not cure his alcoholism (or recovery or relapse).
You have your own answers - they are right there in your post. Your peace and serenity come from no contact with the manipulative ex......and he is being VERY manipulative. The contact is hurting you and not helping him. It is the same old merry go round.
When you find a way to believe those 3 c's you'll be able to let go.
ETA: My xah says that stuff all the time. He has been sober for four weeks and now he is over come with anxiety 24/7, quit a job, wants to move in with me, has no where to go and nothing to do - all because he doesn't have his family and to hear him tell it - I can suddenly fix everything. Believe those three c's - it will set you free.
As far as contact we correspond by email 99% of the time and I do not respond to anything that is not child related. When we are together face to face during kid activities we are civil of course and I walk away if he tries to talk about something not kid related or chit chat stuff. He had the kids put me on the phone over thanksgiving (which is when the above was revealed) and I simply told him to go to an AA meeting - which of course he did not do because he says he no longer has a drinking problem - he hasn't drank in 4 weeks. This is man that drank every day for at 20 years. Same old same old. Nothing I do will make any difference at all and I really and truely believe that and my job is to protect my home - the one I live in and the one in my head.
First - remind yourself of the three C's. Find a way to believe these, right down to your core.
You did not cause his alcoholism (or recovery or relapse).
You can not control his alcoholism (or recovery or relapse).
You can not cure his alcoholism (or recovery or relapse).
You have your own answers - they are right there in your post. Your peace and serenity come from no contact with the manipulative ex......and he is being VERY manipulative. The contact is hurting you and not helping him. It is the same old merry go round.
When you find a way to believe those 3 c's you'll be able to let go.
ETA: My xah says that stuff all the time. He has been sober for four weeks and now he is over come with anxiety 24/7, quit a job, wants to move in with me, has no where to go and nothing to do - all because he doesn't have his family and to hear him tell it - I can suddenly fix everything. Believe those three c's - it will set you free.
As far as contact we correspond by email 99% of the time and I do not respond to anything that is not child related. When we are together face to face during kid activities we are civil of course and I walk away if he tries to talk about something not kid related or chit chat stuff. He had the kids put me on the phone over thanksgiving (which is when the above was revealed) and I simply told him to go to an AA meeting - which of course he did not do because he says he no longer has a drinking problem - he hasn't drank in 4 weeks. This is man that drank every day for at 20 years. Same old same old. Nothing I do will make any difference at all and I really and truely believe that and my job is to protect my home - the one I live in and the one in my head.
RIP Sweet Suki
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: In my sanctuary, my home
Posts: 39,915
If you must be in contact with him because you have a child together, then let that be it. No discussions of anything other than as they involve your daughter. If he moves on to other subjects, you can say you need to hang up. There is no need to talk to him every day. If you are positive that there is no way he will "get his family back together," then you need to tell him that. He shouldn't have any false hopes in that area and if he drinks because of it, it is NOT your fault. He's a grown man and you cannot MAKE him do anything. Continuing to converse with him and be involved in his recovery is sending him mixed signals and, as said before, you need to decide what you really want and then act accordingly.
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Originally Posted by Mambo Queen 
Just last night, he told me ;that he was probably going to relapse because he couldn't have his family back the way he wanted, then today he leaves a message on my work phone saying that he needs to talk to me at lunch, that he takes back what he said, that he knows he can't control me but wants a relationship with our daughter, but that if I am "mean or confrontational" to him it is going to make it harder for him to stay sober.
Sadly, life isn't about what HE wants. Furthermore, he made several choices in the past years that have some serious and long-lasting consequences. He can't just spend 28 days in a rehab, stay dry for 60 days and then expect things to fall back into place *the way he wants*.
IMO, you need to remind yourself that what is happening right now is a direct consequence of his CHOICE to drink himself into the streets.
I know you want to support his efforts, but I think you've done quite enough emotionally AND financially. Perhaps it's time to remove yourself from this equation (and tell his sister not to call you anymore about him!) and let him deal with HIS recovery himself.
BTW, I think you're doing REALLY well at curtailing the contact you have with him. I know "no contact" is incredibly hard but you have seen the clear results in your life: serenity and peace. Yes, you may have to explain to your daughter that her father is ill and can't be in her life right now, but in the long run, she'll be protected from his toxicity.
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Join Date: May 2010
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I can feel how difficult this is for you through your words here. Of course, your ex is being manipulative, telling you he will relapse if he doesn't have his life back!!! But don't forget, if your A is like mine...first you are the saviour, and then the enemy, just like that!!!
Think it through, you even consider going back to him...he starts drinking again...and then it's all your fault for doing.... or ......
Allowing him to recover on his own, with no hope of any type of reconciliation, is a gift you can give him. What he chooses to do with that gift is up to him...but then, it's all up to him with regard to his own recovery. None of this is up to you.
What you do for yourself and your child is up to you. I would take the advice given here...no contact unless it is about your child. Do not respond to anything else. Let your actions convince him of what your words have not.
Think it through, you even consider going back to him...he starts drinking again...and then it's all your fault for doing.... or ......
Allowing him to recover on his own, with no hope of any type of reconciliation, is a gift you can give him. What he chooses to do with that gift is up to him...but then, it's all up to him with regard to his own recovery. None of this is up to you.
What you do for yourself and your child is up to you. I would take the advice given here...no contact unless it is about your child. Do not respond to anything else. Let your actions convince him of what your words have not.
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Alaska
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Originally Posted by Mambo Queen
It feels wrong to me, somehow, to go no contact again when he is sober and trying to recover. I have very much curtailed the contact. He doesn't know my cell #, and is too scared to call my parents home where I live, so he only ever calls me on my work phone, which I usually don't answer. So I only talk to him one or two times a week, and I control when. But now he's trying to weasel his way in for more contact, again. Just last night, he told me ;that he was probably going to relapse because he couldn't have his family back the way he wanted, then today he leaves a message on my work phone saying that he needs to talk to me at lunch, that he takes back what he said, that he knows he can't control me but wants a relationship with our daughter, but that if I am "mean or confrontational" to him it is going to make it harder for him to stay sober.
What I’ve realized is No Contact is for me. STBXAH has no god-given right to be in contact with me. At this point, any contact he has with me is a privilege. You do not have to be in contact with him to support his recovery. You (possibly) only have to be in contact with him about your daughter.
I got very good advice here on one of my threads related to STBXAH and DS’s visits. The advice was to treat contact with him like I was scheduling a professional appointment – like calling to schedule service on my car. Keep it short, keep it civil, and keep it about DS.
The load he is flipping about going to relapse because he can’t have his family back the way he wants it or because of anything you (or any one else for that matter) do or don’t do is a bunch of selfish blame-shifting cr-p. Those loads and accusing you of being mean or confrontational when you try to set boundaries on contact with him is manipulative.
Originally Posted by Mambo Queen
So this of course was a big stressor for him; his sister called me the day he found out and asked me to please call him and try to help calm him down. I did call him later; he sounded pretty well actually--said he couldn't do anything about it now but accept the consequences, etc. etc.
I think if STBXAH's sister called and asked me to talk to him about one of the stupid mistakes he made while drinking, on a good day my response to her would be a flat out "I do not think so. No." One a bad day, it would be significantly less enlightened.
You have been incredibly supportive and helpful beyond what he has a right to expect. You’re awesome and doing really well.
Wishing you continued strength and peace.
I AM CANADIAN
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Niagara Region, Canada
Posts: 2,578
i so needed to read these today...thanks for posting this...my A&NA is so negative STILL and its been 1 year recovery for NA but nothing as of yet(denial) for alcoholism, i finally had to block him today after no contact from HIM in 6 mths...he is such a waste of my energy to even go there now....
I get HIS ISSUES AND HIS RECOVERY are just that...: HIS
dont buy into that crap of quacking
I get HIS ISSUES AND HIS RECOVERY are just that...: HIS
dont buy into that crap of quacking
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
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Originally Posted by theuncertainty
I got very good advice here on one of my threads related to STBXAH and DS’s visits. The advice was to treat contact with him like I was scheduling a professional appointment – like calling to schedule service on my car. Keep it short, keep it civil, and keep it about DS.
He may be in recovery, but he has a long way to go. Give him an inch, and he will take a mile.
If he can't abide by the boundaries in regards to phone calls, then consider NC again.
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 237
Thanks to all for the replies, and I have a follow-up question I'd like to ask. I actually did try to set a boundary by leaving him a voice message at a time he wouldn't be home that said, essentially, that talking to each other seemed to be upsetting to both of us, that whether he relapsed or not was his choice and in his control only, that I did want him to have a relationship with his daughter, but that he had to understand that I had already made my choice (to not continue in a romantic relationship with him) and that he didn't have to like that choice but that he had to respect it. Well, he called me back on my parents number, and I picked up (they don't have caller ID, and as I previously mentioned, he almost NEVER calls that number because he's scared of my parents). He sounded more reasonable than before and seemed to "get it", he asked to speak to our daughter, then he asked her to put me on the phone, he did say one manipulative thing, which was that I couldn't tell the future for sure (he loves to use that one when I say I don't want to be with him--he says, yeah, today, but you're not a mind reader. You can't tell the future), but the rest of the short convo. focused on our daughter and what he should get her for Christmas.
So, today, OF COURSE, he calls me again two times from work, and says he'd "like to talk to you and dd tonight". Just like we never had this convo. Here's my question (finally). I'm going out of town for 5 days, Dec. 18-Dec. 23rd, to visit my boyfriend's family. Daughter is staying with my parents and her cousin. I have traveled with my bf in the past, and on each of the other occasions, I lied to my ex about it because I a. didn't want to hear it and b. didn't want to be accused of "rubbing it in his face". Well, we've been divorced for a year now, and I say it's time for a little "face-rubbing". I think I'm going to have dd call him tonight, and when he inevitably asks to me speak to me, I think I'm going to say that THIS is the reason I don't want him to speak to dd every night, because he's basically just using it as a ruse to get to me, and as a way to check up on me, and if he's so concerned with my goings-on and still feels he has a right to speak to me every day on the phone, he should be aware that sometimes when I am unavailable to speak it is because I am doing things like going out of town. With my boyfriend. Who is not him.
So, today, OF COURSE, he calls me again two times from work, and says he'd "like to talk to you and dd tonight". Just like we never had this convo. Here's my question (finally). I'm going out of town for 5 days, Dec. 18-Dec. 23rd, to visit my boyfriend's family. Daughter is staying with my parents and her cousin. I have traveled with my bf in the past, and on each of the other occasions, I lied to my ex about it because I a. didn't want to hear it and b. didn't want to be accused of "rubbing it in his face". Well, we've been divorced for a year now, and I say it's time for a little "face-rubbing". I think I'm going to have dd call him tonight, and when he inevitably asks to me speak to me, I think I'm going to say that THIS is the reason I don't want him to speak to dd every night, because he's basically just using it as a ruse to get to me, and as a way to check up on me, and if he's so concerned with my goings-on and still feels he has a right to speak to me every day on the phone, he should be aware that sometimes when I am unavailable to speak it is because I am doing things like going out of town. With my boyfriend. Who is not him.
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 444
He will think he has a right to speak to you as long as you let him. I would suggest that if he asks to speak with you, go ahead and take the phone. Listen to what he says. Then, if it is related to an issue with dd.... discuss. If it is not related to dd.... tell him you will only discuss dd with him; ask if he has any dd business to discuss; if not, then "goodbye".
Explaining to him that you will not discuss your personal life, and then defending your personal life with him sends a mixed message.
Explaining to him that you will not discuss your personal life, and then defending your personal life with him sends a mixed message.
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Join Date: Aug 2009
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My opinion is that you are giving the old merry go round a big push with that one. The faster it spins, the harder we hang on.
Excellent - except that he does not have to respect it - you do. You can't control him and his respect. You can control you and yours.
So, if it were me, I simply would not speak to him about anything other then daughter. Do not answer the phone more then once a day (or even once a week - how much doe you need to discuss regarding daughter?). If he says one word about issues other then daughter, say good bye and hang up even if he is mid sentence. Then you do not speak to him about any other topic, at all, except your daughter. Lead by example.
I choose email because it is hard for me to hang up on someone but I've done it when needed. "OK, well then I have to go. Good Bye." I have accepted that I will not get the last word, he will not understand, we are never going to agree, we are not friends.
There are many many many people in this world he can be friends with, can confide in, get support from. You are not doing anything mean or disloyal by not being that person. You don't have to rub his face in it to get him to back off, you simply have to leave him alone and ignore him. If he doesn't have friends he can go to AA. It is free, he can find it, there is always someone there to talk to, always. That is what I remind myself of when my xah whined about being lonely and not having anyone to talk to.
I actually did try to set a boundary by leaving him a voice message at a time he wouldn't be home that said, essentially, that talking to each other seemed to be upsetting to both of us, that whether he relapsed or not was his choice and in his control only, that I did want him to have a relationship with his daughter, but that he had to understand that I had already made my choice (to not continue in a romantic relationship with him) and that he didn't have to like that choice but that he had to respect it.
So, if it were me, I simply would not speak to him about anything other then daughter. Do not answer the phone more then once a day (or even once a week - how much doe you need to discuss regarding daughter?). If he says one word about issues other then daughter, say good bye and hang up even if he is mid sentence. Then you do not speak to him about any other topic, at all, except your daughter. Lead by example.
I choose email because it is hard for me to hang up on someone but I've done it when needed. "OK, well then I have to go. Good Bye." I have accepted that I will not get the last word, he will not understand, we are never going to agree, we are not friends.
There are many many many people in this world he can be friends with, can confide in, get support from. You are not doing anything mean or disloyal by not being that person. You don't have to rub his face in it to get him to back off, you simply have to leave him alone and ignore him. If he doesn't have friends he can go to AA. It is free, he can find it, there is always someone there to talk to, always. That is what I remind myself of when my xah whined about being lonely and not having anyone to talk to.
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Join Date: Nov 2002
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Why can't there be a set schedule..say once a week to talk to dd and also a schedule to see dd?
This would be just crazy making to me! and I don't think I could be involved with a person (dating) who is still so involved with their X!
I wish you luck. To me, telling him you are not available should be enough...none of my X's need to know anything about my personal life or ir or whom I am dating.
This would be just crazy making to me! and I don't think I could be involved with a person (dating) who is still so involved with their X!
I wish you luck. To me, telling him you are not available should be enough...none of my X's need to know anything about my personal life or ir or whom I am dating.
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Join Date: Sep 2009
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Is it possible to keep all "administrative talk" (i.e. scheduling of calls or visits, expenses, events, gifts, etc) to email? That REALLY helps. You're no longer on the spot and you have time to consider your response.
If not, I would highly recommend reducing your conversations to using as few words as possible, i.e.:
Him: How are you doing? I wanted to tell you that x,y,z and a,b,c.
You: This isn't relevant to DD. I'm hanging up.
Him: No, wait, are you aware that h,i,j, has happened in my life? Isn't that interesting?
You: I'm hanging up. Goodbye.
No explanations, no validations, nothing. Keep it short and simple.
I agree with Live about set times for calls. Decide on what's best and then stick to it. If he calls outside those times, no one answers, or he gets hung up on right away. He'll complain bitterly for a while and then either fade away or conform.
If not, I would highly recommend reducing your conversations to using as few words as possible, i.e.:
Him: How are you doing? I wanted to tell you that x,y,z and a,b,c.
You: This isn't relevant to DD. I'm hanging up.
Him: No, wait, are you aware that h,i,j, has happened in my life? Isn't that interesting?
You: I'm hanging up. Goodbye.
No explanations, no validations, nothing. Keep it short and simple.
I agree with Live about set times for calls. Decide on what's best and then stick to it. If he calls outside those times, no one answers, or he gets hung up on right away. He'll complain bitterly for a while and then either fade away or conform.
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Join Date: Apr 2010
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Maybe scheduling talks and visit with your daughter would be best (at least initially until he proves his sobriety is there to last). It is best because it would protect you from having to confront him about his being upset with your dating life and would also protect the time your daughter has with him. If he wants to talk about other things then schedule a time to do that but keep the times between HER time with him and whatever other stuff you both have to deal with seperate.
Yes he is being manipulative but you are reacting so that eggs him on, he knows he can get something out of you. Try not to react or take the bait when he starts in about the boyfriend situation. You seem to be doing the right thing in redirecting the conversation about your daughter. But if there was a scheduled time he could talk to her and visit then it may be easier for everyone. If he doesn't like that idea then you may have to say something like: "I don't want to have to do this but because we can't communicate well right now, we need to have a more specific custody arrangement with visitation, phone calls".
His being a disgruntled ex husband has nothing to do with his recovery. Your life has moved on and he needs to accept that as any grown man in his situation should. If he can't that isn't your problem. Yes you care because you have a child together but he isn't respecting your boundaries. His recovery isn't an excuse to do that.
Yes he is being manipulative but you are reacting so that eggs him on, he knows he can get something out of you. Try not to react or take the bait when he starts in about the boyfriend situation. You seem to be doing the right thing in redirecting the conversation about your daughter. But if there was a scheduled time he could talk to her and visit then it may be easier for everyone. If he doesn't like that idea then you may have to say something like: "I don't want to have to do this but because we can't communicate well right now, we need to have a more specific custody arrangement with visitation, phone calls".
His being a disgruntled ex husband has nothing to do with his recovery. Your life has moved on and he needs to accept that as any grown man in his situation should. If he can't that isn't your problem. Yes you care because you have a child together but he isn't respecting your boundaries. His recovery isn't an excuse to do that.
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,542
When I was divorced from my 1st wife, Mother of my two sons, we rarely had the need to talk on the phone more than two or three times a week. And that was during 50/50 visitation on alternating days while they were young and in school to keep up with home work and project stuff.
I tend to oversimplify things when trying to solve a problem, here's how I see it. 1st he gets sober and stays sober so he CAN do the every other weekend thing. When you're satisfied you mark your calender for his weekends and holidays. You agree on a pickup place and time, done. Of course you would have the occasional calls about grades or DRs visits but for the most part, his relationship with his daughter is his to own.
I tend to oversimplify things when trying to solve a problem, here's how I see it. 1st he gets sober and stays sober so he CAN do the every other weekend thing. When you're satisfied you mark your calender for his weekends and holidays. You agree on a pickup place and time, done. Of course you would have the occasional calls about grades or DRs visits but for the most part, his relationship with his daughter is his to own.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 237
I'm liking these suggestions, and I think scheduling the phone calls would help. Would LOVE to ask to keep it to email, but he doesn't have a computer right now, nor a car to access the public library's computers, so that don't work. As I mentioned also, HE probably won't call my parents house very much. His MO is to call me at work, which I almost never answer, and leave a message wherein he asks ME to have dd call him, then he asks to talk to me. So I think I will leave him a voice message tomorrow, or write him a letter, that says that I am going to schedule Mon. Wed and Fri. as his days to talk to dd, and Mon. can be the day he can talk to me too if he needs to discuss anything daughter related, and any other comments, concerns, etc. he just desperately needs to get off his chest, he can write me a letter. Does that sound OK?
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Quebec
Posts: 2,708
Sounds excellent! As I said before though, expect him to complain and thrash around a bit at your boundaries, but eventually, he'll settle down. Perhaps you should also inform him that if he leaves messages at your work, you won't respond until it's an emergency. Otherwise, your daughter will call him on the days you set, at the hour you set, and there won't be any other contact.
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