BumblingAlong

If an alcoholic achieves sobriety (in this case for about a year) without any treatment at all, is there a greater possiblity of relapse?

Isn't AA (and other programs) a way of cleansing the soul, of learning to relate to people and to put a person in touch with their emotions? So if they get sober with no help at all (other than reading lots of self-help books), are they really "recovering" or are they just sober?

My XABF reached a year of sobriety a few weeks ago. He's sober, but still seems to be up to his old behaviour. He's contacted me several times lately (even though he's been with a new woman for about 4 months) telling me that he loves me and that he thinks maybe there's a future for us..... The funny thing is that if he was actually "working" some kind of program, wouldn't he have gotten to the step of apologizing for the things he's done; in which case, I'd expect I would have received some type of apology --- but I haven't received anything resembling an apology....

I am not tempted to re-kindle anything with him. Even sober, he can't be trusted. He tells me that he loves me, then when I rebuff his advances he tells me about his terrific new girlfriend...It's just so sick and twisted.

He texts me telling me how much he misses me and wants me, then when I ignore him, he'll send an email telling me how "healthy" his new life is - he's taking classes, losing weight, exercising regularly. Why won't he just leave me alone?

I think he's still exhibiting signs of a diseased mind. And better the new girlfriend has to deal with it than me - although I do feel for her. She has no idea what kind of evil man he is.

HealingWillCome

He's cheating on his current girlfriend by professing his love for you, hoping that you'll bite. That's a character issue that obviously wasn't improved by his choice to become sober.

Sick and twisted is right. Are you responding to him? I wouldn't. He will probably continue to contact you for as long as you allow it.

BumblingAlong

No - I'm not responding.

It's funny though -- the fact that I'm NOT responding is very different from how I used to interact with him. I would jump at his calls/messages/texts. I think the fact that I'm no longer doing that is disconcerting to him. His attempts to get in touch are starting to wane - I think he's getting the message.

When he told me he still loved me, I tried to point out to him that he had a girlfriend. His response to that? "Well - it's still early in the relationship and I don't really know where it's going". Later in the coversation, he denied even saying he loved me - he said "I meant that I love you like a friend". There's just no point in trying to have a reasonable conversation with a person like that, so I refuse any interaction; it's best for my sanity.

HealingWillCome

Good choice to refuse any interaction! It just feeds into the drama that it sounds like you have tried to escape. Only you can take care of your own sanity.

BumblingAlong

Back to my original question though -- other than helping a person get sober, what exactly does AA do for the recovering alcoholic? How does it work?

acdirito

The description of your XABF sounds to me that he is a "sober drunk". Your intuitions telling you that he only stopped drinking is right on. It sounds to me that he is NOT working any type of recovery program. He will always remain an alcoholic unless he is willing to find out the underlying reasons why he has this addictive personality. You wrote "I think he's still exhibiting signs of a diseased mind. And better the new girlfriend has to deal with it than me -although I do feel for her. She has no idea what kind of evil man he is." He is looking for any excuse or justification to start up his drinking again. It sounds to me that you are doing a good job of not allowing him to suck you back into his manipulations. Can you put a block on your phone so you no longer have to be bothered by this "dry drunk"? You don't need him any where in your life!

trapeze

It is also possible that he is just a jerk. Some jerks drink, and when they quit drinking, they are a sober jerk. There are plenty of men and women who are not trustworthy who don't have drinking issues.

Yes, there are people who recover from alcoholism without AA. There are people who recover from alcoholism, with or without AA, and aren't very nice, trustworthy people. Sometimes the issue isn't just the alcohol.

BumblingAlong

I used to think his bad behaviour and judgement was BECAUSE he was an alcoholic. Now, I think his basic values and his character are flawed - maybe because of drinking, maybe not. Regardless, he just can't have any place in my life.
I've change my phone numbers SO many times because of him; I'm not doing it anymore. It's easier to simply not respond to him. He's manipulated me over and over again, and I've finally started to understand that.
I don't really understand, to this day, what he GETS from manipulating people. Especially now that he's sober. But I will never have the answers to my questions, so there's really no point trying to figure him out. I want to figure ME out! I LIKE me! I'm pretty awesome -- and I'm enjoying figuring out what makes ME tick.
I just wanted some input about recovery and the effect of AA when a person is TRULY working the program.
Thanks for your insight!!

Bolina

Depends what you mean by treatment, I suppose. After all, there's AA, SMART, church groups, therapy, Moderation Management, Salvation Army programs, etc etc.

To me, it comes down to Awareness, Acceptance, Action. And Humility. And Amends. Those don't need a formal program. But I think that's where recovery lies. I do think one can get there on one's own - it's not like we live in an information deprived world. It's just probably a bit easier when you have to be accountable to other people who call you on your BS.

Recovery from what, though? There's one thing having the compulsion to drink removed. That doesn't mean one ends up being a pleasant person, although that is often the outcome. I think you are well rid of him, tbh.

Freedom1990

AA has taught me how to live life on life's terms once I was relieved of the obsession to drink.

AA addresses all three areas of my disease: physical, emotional, and spiritual.

Through continual use of the steps, and using the principles of AA in all areas of my life, I move forward in my recovery.

Recovery is a journey, not a destination.

naive

the twelve steps provide a ladder to a spiritual awakening.

being sober does not equal a spiritual awakening.

that would be accompanied by humbleness, ownership of character defects, service to others, etc.

BumblingAlong

Thanks all. You've confirmed what I already understood from the (extensive) reading I've done.
It's proof to me that other than the fact that he's no longer drinking, he's certainly not in recovery.
Now it's to focus on my own recovery.

Summerpeach

He's an addict without the drink in his hand. He's a dry drunk. Still ALL the wonderful and delightful characteristic of someone spiritually bankrupt.

Ignore him.....his poor new GF.

BumblingAlong

I agree, Summerpeach. Poor girlfriend indeed. He mentioned that her father is also an alcoholic - he's been sober for 10 years. (His father is also an alcoholic - not in recovery). From all the reading I've done, it's no fluke that my X found a woman whose family was affected by alchoholism.

I have a question about codependence. If I'm codependent, (which of course I am), is HE also? Doesn't it take two to be codependent? I find the whole concept of codepedence fuzzy. What I find so weird is that I didn't come from a family where alcohol was abused (in fact, my X was the first alcoholic I've ever personally known). But clearly, I have codependent tendencies.

TheEnd

There are pepole who don't drink who are cheaters. There are people who drink who are not cheaters. Basically the two don't necessarily go together, drinking is only a symptom, people are gonna be who they truly are.

Cyranoak

..but if you are really curious, as I was, go to a couple of open AA meetings and experience one for yourself. I interpret the 12 steps as specifically instructing me not to answer your question other than to say, "It doesn't matter-- it's his recovery not yours. Focus on you and your recovery from the effects of alcohol (i.e. the behavior of the alcoholic)."

I found AA meetings to be very enlightening and, though I'm a light drinker, I find myself going to an AA meetings about once a month. I feel like it helps keep me grounded in my Al-Anon program.

Lastly, AA does not work for everyone, just several million people world-wide over the last 70-80 years. I've seen people successfully stop drinking with sheer willpower. I've seen people be successful in other programs too. Regardless, it's his program not yours, and from your post it sounds like he's still the crazy f** you know and love. ;-)

By continuing to engage with him by reading his texts and whatever else, you are continuing to engage in his alcoholism. Detach. Detach. Detach. Al-Anon. Al-Anon. Al-Anon. Here's how Al-Anon works-- go to meetings. Go to lots and lots of meetings.

Take what you like and leave the rest.

Cyranoak