How many relapses/ how much sadness does it take?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 24
How many relapses/ how much sadness does it take?
Just trying to figure out if/how/when ex recovering A boyfriend will ever beat the disease...
He managed 5 months sober this year, but is relapsing now; stuck in the negative circle of:
sucess for a while, relapse, ensueing friend loss, ensueing negative head space, followed by the eventual finding of strength to start the cycle over, this time slighly more jaded than before.
He tries, but feels alone coz people can't cope. And sociey doesn't seem to help; he's been down to SMART several times and, after establishing a support worker, the support worker is now away on extended sick leave etc.
In his own words he is 'tired' of it all. He is a long term face at AA now and is acutely aware of that... He had a sponsor, but the sponsor dropped him. THe benefits team are chasing him hard to get work, but considering he's relapsed three times in as many weeks (after 5 months sober) I think his demons are just too much for him to manage. He's on the list for councelling, but the NHS waiting list is 30 weeks! I'd pay for it if that didn't make me a co-dependant wanting to fix him!
I just can't bear to see him struggling and being so unhappy. It occured to me that I was an obstacle, so I recently removed myself from the relationship, to give him space to focus solely on recovery. His response was to point out what I meant to him and how we really had something... followed by telling me the happiness and hope is gone forever; that he can't take loosing me too; that I should stay out of his pitiful and stupid life etc etc.
He managed 5 months sober this year, but is relapsing now; stuck in the negative circle of:
sucess for a while, relapse, ensueing friend loss, ensueing negative head space, followed by the eventual finding of strength to start the cycle over, this time slighly more jaded than before.
He tries, but feels alone coz people can't cope. And sociey doesn't seem to help; he's been down to SMART several times and, after establishing a support worker, the support worker is now away on extended sick leave etc.
In his own words he is 'tired' of it all. He is a long term face at AA now and is acutely aware of that... He had a sponsor, but the sponsor dropped him. THe benefits team are chasing him hard to get work, but considering he's relapsed three times in as many weeks (after 5 months sober) I think his demons are just too much for him to manage. He's on the list for councelling, but the NHS waiting list is 30 weeks! I'd pay for it if that didn't make me a co-dependant wanting to fix him!
I just can't bear to see him struggling and being so unhappy. It occured to me that I was an obstacle, so I recently removed myself from the relationship, to give him space to focus solely on recovery. His response was to point out what I meant to him and how we really had something... followed by telling me the happiness and hope is gone forever; that he can't take loosing me too; that I should stay out of his pitiful and stupid life etc etc.
I'm no angel!
Join Date: May 2005
Location: tampa, fl
Posts: 6,728
Some never beat the disease. My exabf is a prime example, he will die an addict.
He just doesn't have the mental capability to conquer the disease. He thinks that the tooth fairy will come down with her foo foo dust and poof...the disease is gone forever.
He always wants someone else to solve his problems, he hops on ther recovery train, then drops out, this cycle has been going on for years.
I believe that he is/was mentally imbalanced and that he self medicated himself to find relief, obviously, this did not work.
He can stay off drugs for several months then bam, a binge.
I had to let him go, it was the best decision I have ever made, saved myself, certainly could not save him.
When and if he ever really gets tired of it all, he will seek recovery and stick to it, until then, it's all words, no action.
He just doesn't have the mental capability to conquer the disease. He thinks that the tooth fairy will come down with her foo foo dust and poof...the disease is gone forever.
He always wants someone else to solve his problems, he hops on ther recovery train, then drops out, this cycle has been going on for years.
I believe that he is/was mentally imbalanced and that he self medicated himself to find relief, obviously, this did not work.
He can stay off drugs for several months then bam, a binge.
I had to let him go, it was the best decision I have ever made, saved myself, certainly could not save him.
When and if he ever really gets tired of it all, he will seek recovery and stick to it, until then, it's all words, no action.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Little Rock, Arkansas
Posts: 161
My XAGF has relapsed twice while in rehab. She has gone to three different programs (rehabs), she has gone to AA meetings, she has lost her kids to whom she refers to as the "sociopath", she has lost her friends, she even knows that her biological mother died of alcoholism. She blames her therapist, her lawyer(s), her mother, and everyone else for her plight.
She knows that she can beat it by giving it to her HP, and she did for about a year.
I pray for her to let her HP take over for her; let go, let God.
I would imagine that my bottom would be loosing my kids, apparently it was not hers.
She knows that she can beat it by giving it to her HP, and she did for about a year.
I pray for her to let her HP take over for her; let go, let God.
I would imagine that my bottom would be loosing my kids, apparently it was not hers.
peaceful seabird
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: floating
Posts: 4,822
Hi qazqaz!
I remember you. How are you doing in your own recovery? Did you get the book "Codependent No More"? We did a group reading of the book. I think there is a sticky post at the top of this forum with links to the reading of the book.
This info is also from a sticky under "About Recovery".
The link is to "Hooks that keep us in boundary-less relationships"
Here it is:
6. Need to be Needed
Maybe you get hooked by the sense of being depended upon or needed by your relationship partners. There is no reason to feel responsible for your relationship partners if they let you know that they are dependent upon and need you for their life to be successful and fulfilled. This is over‑dependency and is unhealthy. It is impossible to have healthy intimacy with overdependent people because there is no give and take. Your relationship partners could be parasites sucking you dry of everything you have intellectually, emotionally and physically. You get nothing in return except the "good feelings" of doing something for your relationship partners. You get no real healthy nurturing, rather you feel the weight of your relationship partners on your shoulders, neck and back. You give and give of yourself to address the needs of your relationship partners and you have nothing left to give to yourself. The rational message needed to establish healthy boundaries from this hook is: "It is unhealthy for me to be so overly depended upon by my relationship partners who are adults. There is a need for me to be clear what I am willing and not willing to do for my relationship partners. There is a need for my relationship partners to become more independent from me so that I can maintain my own sense of identity, worth and personhood. It would be better for me to let go of the need to be needed than to allow my relationship partners to continue to have such dependency on me. I am only responsible for taking care of myself. Human adults are responsible to accept personal responsibility for their own lives. Supporting my relationship partners intellectually, emotionally and physically where I have nothing left to give to myself is unhealthy and not required in healthy relationships and I will be ALERT to when I am doing this and try to stop it immediately."
7. Belief that Time will Make it Better
Maybe you get hooked by the belief that: "If I give it enough time things will change to be the way I want them to be." You have waited a long time to have healthy intimate relationships, you rationalize: "Don't give up on them too soon." Since you are not sure how to have them or how they feel, you rationalize that maybe what the relationships need is more time to become more healthy and intimate. You find yourself giving more and more of yourself and waiting longer and longer for something good to happen and yet things never get better. You find that your wait goes from being counted by days, weeks or months to years. Time passes and things really never get better. What keeps hooking you are those fleeting moments when the relationships approximate what you would like them to be. These fleeting moments feel like centuries and they are sufficient to keep you holding on. The rational message needed to establish healthy boundaries from this hook is: "It is unhealthy for me to sacrifice large portions of my life, invested in relationships which are not going anywhere. It is unhealthy for me to hold on to the belief that things will change if they have not in 1 or more years. It is OK to set time limits in my relationships such as: if in 3 months or 6 months things do not get to be intimately healthier then I am getting out of them or we will need to seek professional help to work it out. It is OK to put time demands on my relationships so that I do not waste away my life waiting for something which in all probability will never happen. It is not OK for me to blow out of proportion those fleeting moments in my relationships which make me believe that there is anything more in them than there really is."
I remember you. How are you doing in your own recovery? Did you get the book "Codependent No More"? We did a group reading of the book. I think there is a sticky post at the top of this forum with links to the reading of the book.
This info is also from a sticky under "About Recovery".
The link is to "Hooks that keep us in boundary-less relationships"
Here it is:
6. Need to be Needed
Maybe you get hooked by the sense of being depended upon or needed by your relationship partners. There is no reason to feel responsible for your relationship partners if they let you know that they are dependent upon and need you for their life to be successful and fulfilled. This is over‑dependency and is unhealthy. It is impossible to have healthy intimacy with overdependent people because there is no give and take. Your relationship partners could be parasites sucking you dry of everything you have intellectually, emotionally and physically. You get nothing in return except the "good feelings" of doing something for your relationship partners. You get no real healthy nurturing, rather you feel the weight of your relationship partners on your shoulders, neck and back. You give and give of yourself to address the needs of your relationship partners and you have nothing left to give to yourself. The rational message needed to establish healthy boundaries from this hook is: "It is unhealthy for me to be so overly depended upon by my relationship partners who are adults. There is a need for me to be clear what I am willing and not willing to do for my relationship partners. There is a need for my relationship partners to become more independent from me so that I can maintain my own sense of identity, worth and personhood. It would be better for me to let go of the need to be needed than to allow my relationship partners to continue to have such dependency on me. I am only responsible for taking care of myself. Human adults are responsible to accept personal responsibility for their own lives. Supporting my relationship partners intellectually, emotionally and physically where I have nothing left to give to myself is unhealthy and not required in healthy relationships and I will be ALERT to when I am doing this and try to stop it immediately."
7. Belief that Time will Make it Better
Maybe you get hooked by the belief that: "If I give it enough time things will change to be the way I want them to be." You have waited a long time to have healthy intimate relationships, you rationalize: "Don't give up on them too soon." Since you are not sure how to have them or how they feel, you rationalize that maybe what the relationships need is more time to become more healthy and intimate. You find yourself giving more and more of yourself and waiting longer and longer for something good to happen and yet things never get better. You find that your wait goes from being counted by days, weeks or months to years. Time passes and things really never get better. What keeps hooking you are those fleeting moments when the relationships approximate what you would like them to be. These fleeting moments feel like centuries and they are sufficient to keep you holding on. The rational message needed to establish healthy boundaries from this hook is: "It is unhealthy for me to sacrifice large portions of my life, invested in relationships which are not going anywhere. It is unhealthy for me to hold on to the belief that things will change if they have not in 1 or more years. It is OK to set time limits in my relationships such as: if in 3 months or 6 months things do not get to be intimately healthier then I am getting out of them or we will need to seek professional help to work it out. It is OK to put time demands on my relationships so that I do not waste away my life waiting for something which in all probability will never happen. It is not OK for me to blow out of proportion those fleeting moments in my relationships which make me believe that there is anything more in them than there really is."
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 24
Thankyou Dollydo Mrphilipctrs1 - Yes, I fear my exab will die an addict too. He's lost so much through drinking and still blames other people for leaving his life. He knows that he can do it - he did it for 4 years before, yet he still keeps struggling with the fight and crashing down to rock bottom.
Pelican - Thankyou for posting. Yes I've read the book and learnt a lot since the beginning of the year. I am not emotionally drained by him in the way I was before. I just think it's such a shame that he became so much more himself after 3,4,5 months not drinking and now he's back in it again. Ultimately I just want him to be health and happy... and his real self. I know he has to do it all himself, but it's still sad to see him being his own worst enemy; failing so many times; being surrounded by all his demons from his past and living a life that is a constant uphill struggle of trying, but just not managing to try hard enough.
Pelican - Thankyou for posting. Yes I've read the book and learnt a lot since the beginning of the year. I am not emotionally drained by him in the way I was before. I just think it's such a shame that he became so much more himself after 3,4,5 months not drinking and now he's back in it again. Ultimately I just want him to be health and happy... and his real self. I know he has to do it all himself, but it's still sad to see him being his own worst enemy; failing so many times; being surrounded by all his demons from his past and living a life that is a constant uphill struggle of trying, but just not managing to try hard enough.
Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,149
if only there was a way to work out who will or will not beat their demons.
Sadly there isn't: the only one with any inkling of insight or control over whether that happens is him.
he could get another sponsor at AA.
he could present at his GP and explain his struggles and that he is worried what he might do, that he can't manage keeping sober on his own and beg for help.
he could try the various medications that a GP can prescribe that can help depression/cravings etc.
he could go to the salvation army/MIND/ or any of the myriad of charities that exist to help people with addictions get and stay sober and negotiate the benefits/social care system and stabilise life afterwards.
He could look up the local Alcohol and Drug community team and self-refer for counselling (there was a 6 weeks wait when my AstbxH was frog-marched by his brother into doing this).
He could ring the samaritans.
He could ring an addictions specialist counsellor, explain he is on benefits and enquire about pro-bono/sliding scale fees.
he could stop drinking, grab onto life and these resources and learn how to develop alternative skills to navigate life. Only he can do it. It must be very hard to watch him start to and then decide to turn away from that. If the sober him, was "the real him" then it was "the real him" that made that choice to go back to drinking, with all attendant consequences.
How are you? I've found that there are far less resources for family and friends of addicted people (try a google serach and see what I mean), but we have to grab what we can and work with what is there.
Sadly there isn't: the only one with any inkling of insight or control over whether that happens is him.
he could get another sponsor at AA.
he could present at his GP and explain his struggles and that he is worried what he might do, that he can't manage keeping sober on his own and beg for help.
he could try the various medications that a GP can prescribe that can help depression/cravings etc.
he could go to the salvation army/MIND/ or any of the myriad of charities that exist to help people with addictions get and stay sober and negotiate the benefits/social care system and stabilise life afterwards.
He could look up the local Alcohol and Drug community team and self-refer for counselling (there was a 6 weeks wait when my AstbxH was frog-marched by his brother into doing this).
He could ring the samaritans.
He could ring an addictions specialist counsellor, explain he is on benefits and enquire about pro-bono/sliding scale fees.
he could stop drinking, grab onto life and these resources and learn how to develop alternative skills to navigate life. Only he can do it. It must be very hard to watch him start to and then decide to turn away from that. If the sober him, was "the real him" then it was "the real him" that made that choice to go back to drinking, with all attendant consequences.
How are you? I've found that there are far less resources for family and friends of addicted people (try a google serach and see what I mean), but we have to grab what we can and work with what is there.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 24
JenT1968 - Thank you (rather belatedly!) for all the practical advice. Was a great help to know what is out there.
He has signed up for most things going and I've stepped back a bit. It's a case of so far, so good... I keep my fingers crossed!
He has signed up for most things going and I've stepped back a bit. It's a case of so far, so good... I keep my fingers crossed!
Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: minneapolis, mn
Posts: 2,762
so many of us have spent years waiting, hoping, believing that "this time i really think it will work". if we could will it to be so, many many more would be clean and sober today.
unfortunately, there is really no way (in my opinion) of knowing which people will one day "get it" and which never ever will. but you can live in the present. look at today, right now, and discern what the deal is. and that's what we often don't do, but should.
breaking free from the bonds of addiction is one of the hardest things there is to do in this life. for both the addict and the person who loves him/her like no other. but i believe that unless you do, you stay....well, in bondage. good luck. come more often!
unfortunately, there is really no way (in my opinion) of knowing which people will one day "get it" and which never ever will. but you can live in the present. look at today, right now, and discern what the deal is. and that's what we often don't do, but should.
breaking free from the bonds of addiction is one of the hardest things there is to do in this life. for both the addict and the person who loves him/her like no other. but i believe that unless you do, you stay....well, in bondage. good luck. come more often!
get it, give it, grow in it
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calif coast
Posts: 3,167
You only have control over what is best for yourself and what life you want today.
the way your guy is today is all you know how he is for sure. If you can stand this, stay in the relationship. Don't live on a maybe as you have no way of knowing any thing but what you already see.
the way your guy is today is all you know how he is for sure. If you can stand this, stay in the relationship. Don't live on a maybe as you have no way of knowing any thing but what you already see.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Wizard Land Downunder
Posts: 2,615
Honey, you just asked the 64 million dollar question, and haven't heard there is a "right" answer to it. For my A's, it is 1 all right now, but heck...that could change in the blink of an eye.
My late XAH never acknowledged he WAS an alcoholic, took me leaving as invite to spend every day sozzled, and drank himself into a nursing home, where he miserably existed for 4 horrible years. He died almost a year ago, and released not only himself, but our daughters from the nightmare.
My RABF is still in recovery, still sober and even gave up his 50 year old smoking habit...and I did as well. He always knew he was an A, as dad and grandfather were also, and he had been in rehab many times, lasted a year or so before relapse a few times, others it was a quick turn-a-round back to the bar.
Difference was that for first time in his life, there was nobody to support or enable him thru withdrawals and detox, so he really did it hard by himself, and he was alone because I had walked away.
I leave it in his and God's hands now, as nothing I ever did to "help", was worth a pinch of cow dung.....all that happened was it prolonged the drinking or helped him back to it.
Detaching from him and the drinking was hard but, seems to have given him the chance to find out that he IS strong enough to stay sober without me propping him up.
From now on, I prop up tomato bushes and other produce, and leave people in God's hands.
God bless
My late XAH never acknowledged he WAS an alcoholic, took me leaving as invite to spend every day sozzled, and drank himself into a nursing home, where he miserably existed for 4 horrible years. He died almost a year ago, and released not only himself, but our daughters from the nightmare.
My RABF is still in recovery, still sober and even gave up his 50 year old smoking habit...and I did as well. He always knew he was an A, as dad and grandfather were also, and he had been in rehab many times, lasted a year or so before relapse a few times, others it was a quick turn-a-round back to the bar.
Difference was that for first time in his life, there was nobody to support or enable him thru withdrawals and detox, so he really did it hard by himself, and he was alone because I had walked away.
I leave it in his and God's hands now, as nothing I ever did to "help", was worth a pinch of cow dung.....all that happened was it prolonged the drinking or helped him back to it.
Detaching from him and the drinking was hard but, seems to have given him the chance to find out that he IS strong enough to stay sober without me propping him up.
From now on, I prop up tomato bushes and other produce, and leave people in God's hands.
God bless
Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,149
Did you find any support for yourself qazqaz?
I'm glad for him that he has found support, my point with the list of things he could do is that far from this.....
......actually, there are tons of resources out there, but he needs to make an effort and plug into them and then take on board what they say and actually do it. it sounds harsh, but sometimes "there is no try - only do or do not"
(Yoda, one of the Star wars movies - my son repeatedly quotes this to me about giving up smoking)
it is hard being emotionally involved with an addict, and you really cannot ever know if someone else has beat their demons once and for all, until you are looking back at the end of their life. I found that I needed support from a therapist for myself to work out my feelings and thoughts about my life, and its orbit around my addicted loved one. Have you considered investing in that for yourself?
I'm glad for him that he has found support, my point with the list of things he could do is that far from this.....
And sociey doesn't seem to help;
(Yoda, one of the Star wars movies - my son repeatedly quotes this to me about giving up smoking)
it is hard being emotionally involved with an addict, and you really cannot ever know if someone else has beat their demons once and for all, until you are looking back at the end of their life. I found that I needed support from a therapist for myself to work out my feelings and thoughts about my life, and its orbit around my addicted loved one. Have you considered investing in that for yourself?
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Alexandria Township, NJ
Posts: 275
Hi qazqaz,
A lot and a lot
If he wants to recover all the other circumstances (excuses) won't matter.
He has to become 'Tired" of being drunk.
And yes you probably should. However imo, I don't think that is what HE meant. Be careful of the manipulation, they can be very good at it.
You can't make him happy or cure his loneliness that has to come from inside him.
Having a relationship with an alcoholic is a long rough rode.
He may find sobriety, but you may have to sacrifice an entire life for it.
keep posting be strong
How many relapses/ how much sadness does it take?
If he wants to recover all the other circumstances (excuses) won't matter.
He has to become 'Tired" of being drunk.
so I recently removed myself from the relationship, to give him space to focus solely on recovery. His response was to point out what I meant to him and how we really had something... followed by telling me the happiness and hope is gone forever; that he can't take loosing me too; that I should stay out of his pitiful and stupid life etc etc.
You can't make him happy or cure his loneliness that has to come from inside him.
Having a relationship with an alcoholic is a long rough rode.
He may find sobriety, but you may have to sacrifice an entire life for it.
keep posting be strong
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