Step Seven
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Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,861
Step Seven
When ready, we say something like this: ”My Creator,
I am now willing that you should have all of me,
good and bad. I pray that you now remove from me
every single defect of character which stands in the
way of my usefulness to you and my fellows. Grant
me strength, as I go out from here, to do your bidding.
Amen.“ We have then completed Step Seven.
All of me? Good and bad? Step seven starts with the word humbly. I think most of us can agree that steps 4 and 5 were humbling experiences. So to balk at this step is to run the risk of missing the key element to its success...
Of course, living with my defects after my eyes have been opened in the 5th step is a tall order indeed! But the goal here is to grow along spiritual lines, but back to the thing that always jumps out at me-
All of me? Good and bad?
So God is ok with me as I am? This is not a license to wallow in my defects of course. A huge part of this step is simply the realization that my defects can be arrested with spiritual help. In step 7 I needed to look outside the rooms for some guidance with that help.Like so many other issues, Bill provides the example for this rationale:
Remember the story about Bill hearing the voice in his head (If the laborer is worthy of hire?) Had he relied on his intuition alone we may have had a tradition of payment for helping alcoholics.
So I still find it of value to seek spiritual guidance. Often a sponsor will prove invaluable for me. I have utilized ordained men of the cloth as well.
So- if I were to break down the seventh step into one word I would have to say-
HELP!
The problem I come across is identifying the answer
I am now willing that you should have all of me,
good and bad. I pray that you now remove from me
every single defect of character which stands in the
way of my usefulness to you and my fellows. Grant
me strength, as I go out from here, to do your bidding.
Amen.“ We have then completed Step Seven.
All of me? Good and bad? Step seven starts with the word humbly. I think most of us can agree that steps 4 and 5 were humbling experiences. So to balk at this step is to run the risk of missing the key element to its success...
Of course, living with my defects after my eyes have been opened in the 5th step is a tall order indeed! But the goal here is to grow along spiritual lines, but back to the thing that always jumps out at me-
All of me? Good and bad?
So God is ok with me as I am? This is not a license to wallow in my defects of course. A huge part of this step is simply the realization that my defects can be arrested with spiritual help. In step 7 I needed to look outside the rooms for some guidance with that help.Like so many other issues, Bill provides the example for this rationale:
Remember the story about Bill hearing the voice in his head (If the laborer is worthy of hire?) Had he relied on his intuition alone we may have had a tradition of payment for helping alcoholics.
So I still find it of value to seek spiritual guidance. Often a sponsor will prove invaluable for me. I have utilized ordained men of the cloth as well.
So- if I were to break down the seventh step into one word I would have to say-
HELP!
The problem I come across is identifying the answer
12-Step Recovered Alkie
Join Date: May 2010
Location: West Bloomfield, MI
Posts: 5,797
cool post Steve.
Six and Seven are like the "sleeper steps" to me....they look sooo simple on the surface but there's a whoooooooooooole lot to 'em once you really try to sit with them for a while. 6 & 7 have really been my primary focus for the past, oh I dunno, year or so. Willingness to REALLY change and willingness to REALLY turn everything over to God is a toughie for me. About the best I can do is "one thing at a time" sometimes.
Thank God Bill wrote "Progress, not perfection"
Six and Seven are like the "sleeper steps" to me....they look sooo simple on the surface but there's a whoooooooooooole lot to 'em once you really try to sit with them for a while. 6 & 7 have really been my primary focus for the past, oh I dunno, year or so. Willingness to REALLY change and willingness to REALLY turn everything over to God is a toughie for me. About the best I can do is "one thing at a time" sometimes.
Thank God Bill wrote "Progress, not perfection"
Don't resist, allow
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: South East of England
Posts: 1,521
Originally Posted by navysteve 
[ back to the thing that always jumps out at me-
All of me? Good and bad?
All of me? Good and bad?
......if I only asked God to remove my character defects, then I would be back to directing the show.
Laozi Old Man
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 6,665
Originally Posted by navysteve
[B][I]
So- if I were to break down the seventh step into one word I would have to say-
HELP!
The problem I come across is identifying the answer
So- if I were to break down the seventh step into one word I would have to say-
HELP!
The problem I come across is identifying the answer
DETACHMENT!
Even though the prayer begins with the word "Humbly", I see humility as being the foundation principle of every step (12&12 page 70).
Step 5 is where we have laid the foundation and step 7 is where we begin to build an edifice. In order to build a sanctified edifice we need to be free of the bondage of self (step 3) and any extraneous luggage (character defects).
IMO step 7 is really a continuation of step 3 (3 has no Amen), and an intermediate detachment step. Step11 has the word ONLY in it to finalize the detachment process.
If you think the word "detachment" has no place in AA you need only look at how many times it's synonym is used - surrender.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 812
Originally Posted by Boleo
So- if I were to break down the seventh step into one word I would have to say-
DETACHMENT!
DETACHMENT!
In one of his letters to Bill, he writes:
Most spiritual development seems to be not through achievement but through detachment:
--Detachment from the sensual gratification of alcohol brings the spiritual gifts of clear thinking and peace of mind.
--Detachment from the spiritual goal of authorship and proprietorship brings the spiritual gift of fellowship with thousands who could be authors and proprietors.
--Detachment from the sophisticated satisfaction of seeing one's own way can bring the peace of a childlike dependence on a "father who can't let us down."
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 26,425
I'm not on step 7 yet, but it is definately on my mind as I am sober and my "defects" become clear....because my powerlessness over those defects is also clear to me
I have moral and philisophical convictions galore but am unable to live up to them.
I believe this step has some similarity to step one
As far as good and bad..well persistance and stubborness come from the same root charactor trait I think...it is in how that trait is applied that is the issue....and I have a tendancy to lie to myself and precieve things incorrectly which leads to chaos.
I would rather trust my HP to determine what needs to be removed and what serves a purpose.
And as I always say...thank god Bill W was grandious and god didn't remove all of it....
I have moral and philisophical convictions galore but am unable to live up to them.
I believe this step has some similarity to step one
As far as good and bad..well persistance and stubborness come from the same root charactor trait I think...it is in how that trait is applied that is the issue....and I have a tendancy to lie to myself and precieve things incorrectly which leads to chaos.
I would rather trust my HP to determine what needs to be removed and what serves a purpose.
And as I always say...thank god Bill W was grandious and god didn't remove all of it....
Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Zion, Illinois
Posts: 3,411
Originally Posted by navysteve
When ready, we say something like this: ”My Creator,
I am now willing that you should have all of me,
good and bad. I pray that you now remove from me
every single defect of character which stands in the
way of my usefulness to you and my fellows. Grant
me strength, as I go out from here, to do your bidding.
Amen.“ We have then completed Step Seven.
The problem I come across is identifying the answer
I am now willing that you should have all of me,
good and bad. I pray that you now remove from me
every single defect of character which stands in the
way of my usefulness to you and my fellows. Grant
me strength, as I go out from here, to do your bidding.
Amen.“ We have then completed Step Seven.
The problem I come across is identifying the answer
Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: nj
Posts: 541
Originally Posted by navysteve
When ready, we say something like this: ”My Creator,
I am now willing that you should have all of me,
good and bad. I pray that you now remove from me
every single defect of character which stands in the
way of my usefulness to you and my fellows. Grant
me strength, as I go out from here, to do your bidding.
Amen.“ We have then completed Step Seven.
I am now willing that you should have all of me,
good and bad. I pray that you now remove from me
every single defect of character which stands in the
way of my usefulness to you and my fellows. Grant
me strength, as I go out from here, to do your bidding.
Amen.“ We have then completed Step Seven.
Oh no, it has to be more complicated than that.
12-Step Recovered Alkie
Join Date: May 2010
Location: West Bloomfield, MI
Posts: 5,797
I've heard an interesting take on 6 and 7 that hinges on the belief that, at only 3 years sober when the AA book was written, Bill and the first 100 may not have fully understood 6 & 7 themselves. When you read the 12 & 12, however, they start off with "This is the step that separates the men from the boys." (in step 6)
It was only upon more reflection, meditation, prayer, and practicing of the steps they came to understand that all of the steps can be learned, understood, and practiced at much deeper levels than initially written about.
It was only upon more reflection, meditation, prayer, and practicing of the steps they came to understand that all of the steps can be learned, understood, and practiced at much deeper levels than initially written about.
12-Step Recovered Alkie
Join Date: May 2010
Location: West Bloomfield, MI
Posts: 5,797
^^^^^^^ I don't mean to sound as if I'm advocating taking what is supposed to be a simple program and making it complex (but oh how I seem to love to do that......lol). I'm just stating that profound changes don't always occur easily - or as easily as the obsession to drink was "cured" by our respective higher powers.
Just because we turn our character defects and exact natures over to a God of our understanding and ask Him to remove them from us doesn't mean He'll necessarily remove all of them (as we all know all to well). Some of those defects, well, we're stuck with them for the time being. We have to be content with exercising self restraint and self control over them for now. Understanding which ones are still hanging around (steps 4 and 5) because we haven't gotten willing enough to let go of them yet (step 6) or because God just hasn't removed "that one" from us yet, provides us the opportunity to carry our end of the bargain with God.
Just because we turn our character defects and exact natures over to a God of our understanding and ask Him to remove them from us doesn't mean He'll necessarily remove all of them (as we all know all to well). Some of those defects, well, we're stuck with them for the time being. We have to be content with exercising self restraint and self control over them for now. Understanding which ones are still hanging around (steps 4 and 5) because we haven't gotten willing enough to let go of them yet (step 6) or because God just hasn't removed "that one" from us yet, provides us the opportunity to carry our end of the bargain with God.
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Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,861
Day trader-
As we grow along spiritual lines so should our understanding of the steps. There is a book called Not God by Ernest Kurtz that talks alot about Bill's spiritual growth. Alot of folks find it hard to believe that Bill states that it wasn't until he was 5 years sober that he felt that he finally took AA's 5th step.
That does not invalidate what he did earlier. I look at the steps in three different phases-
The clean up
The seeker
The builder
As we grow along spiritual lines so should our understanding of the steps. There is a book called Not God by Ernest Kurtz that talks alot about Bill's spiritual growth. Alot of folks find it hard to believe that Bill states that it wasn't until he was 5 years sober that he felt that he finally took AA's 5th step.
That does not invalidate what he did earlier. I look at the steps in three different phases-
The clean up
The seeker
The builder
12-Step Recovered Alkie
Join Date: May 2010
Location: West Bloomfield, MI
Posts: 5,797
Maybe I shoulda kept my mouth shut.... heh.
I didn't mean to imply that it in any way invalidated anything in the BB. I was implying that the BB is our basic text. Further understanding and what I could argue "complete" understanding of the steps and how we can apply the principles to our lives won't necessarily be found in any one-liner, one paragraph, one page or even a chapter in any one book.
I've had that book recommended to me before Steve. I guess your recommendation is a sign for me to go get the darn thing. I keep making excuses to not buy any new ones because I've got a couple I'm dragging my heels through right now and hate to add another into the mix......but I'll certainly check it out.
I didn't mean to imply that it in any way invalidated anything in the BB. I was implying that the BB is our basic text. Further understanding and what I could argue "complete" understanding of the steps and how we can apply the principles to our lives won't necessarily be found in any one-liner, one paragraph, one page or even a chapter in any one book.
I've had that book recommended to me before Steve. I guess your recommendation is a sign for me to go get the darn thing. I keep making excuses to not buy any new ones because I've got a couple I'm dragging my heels through right now and hate to add another into the mix......but I'll certainly check it out.
Don't resist, allow
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: South East of England
Posts: 1,521
Originally Posted by DayTrader
Just because we turn our character defects and exact natures over to a God of our understanding and ask Him to remove them from us doesn't mean He'll necessarily remove all of them (as we all know all to well). Some of those defects, well, we're stuck with them for the time being.
God will always have me be like Him if I turn my life and will over to Him because I can only serve Him if I am like Him.
If I am stuck with a character defect, it is not because he won't remove it, it is because I am not willing to turn all of me over to Him.
Whenever I have inventoried because my character defects have emerged, it is always my Ego which has come into play and caused chaos and discontenment, as it always does! And if it is my Ego (self-will) then it means I have Edged God Out or to put it in Step 3 terms, not turned my life and will over to God.
I have never inventoried and found that the reason for the defect is because God never removed it.
I can always be like God (without character defects) if I surrender my will. As it says about the Promises on p84 "They will always materialize if we work for them"
Don't resist, allow
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: South East of England
Posts: 1,521
Originally Posted by DayTrader
It was only upon more reflection, meditation, prayer, and practicing of the steps they came to understand that all of the steps can be learned, understood, and practiced at much deeper levels than initially written about.
The more that I work them, the more that I learn, the more I grow the more I realise that I actually know very little and there is much more to learn.
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Often times it is our defects that serve God's purpose as much as ( if not more so) than our assets. People relate to us in AA not because of how wonderful we are, but because of how defective we are. They watch us work through a particular defect and are inspired and say " maybe I can get over this too". When we tell our stories, it is our struggles that inspire others. When we share of our troubles others connect with us.
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 385
Since i don't believe in an interventionist god, I have a little different POV on this step. first of all, I do believe I'm part of a universal god (or mind, or love) and, like a hologram...it is in me and I am in it. It has shared (as love does) the power of mindfulness, of choice with me, but there is no judgement: no sin, only error. Error can be corrected. Sin is eternal.
Anyway....I believe the so-called "character defects" or "shortcomings," are related to my thoughts and behaviors: thus, I can with practice change them. They are not "removed." But the better I get at "practicing these principles in all my affairs," the less those character defects show up. Of course, if I cease my practice, they may be lurking in wait for me: thus....my only defense is to maintain my spiritual fitness.
I believe that focusing on the problem keeps me attached to the problem, and agree with the value of detachment. For me, since ego is all about attachment, and since ego isn't going away any time soon, that means "attaching" myself to the solution rather than the problem. What I resist, persists. I think that practicing honesty is the solution to dishonesty.
blessings
zenbear
Anyway....I believe the so-called "character defects" or "shortcomings," are related to my thoughts and behaviors: thus, I can with practice change them. They are not "removed." But the better I get at "practicing these principles in all my affairs," the less those character defects show up. Of course, if I cease my practice, they may be lurking in wait for me: thus....my only defense is to maintain my spiritual fitness.
I believe that focusing on the problem keeps me attached to the problem, and agree with the value of detachment. For me, since ego is all about attachment, and since ego isn't going away any time soon, that means "attaching" myself to the solution rather than the problem. What I resist, persists. I think that practicing honesty is the solution to dishonesty.
blessings
zenbear
Don't resist, allow
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: South East of England
Posts: 1,521
Originally Posted by navysteve
Often times it is our defects that serve God's purpose as much as ( if not more so) than our assets. People relate to us in AA not because of how wonderful we are, but because of how defective we are. They watch us work through a particular defect and are inspired and say " maybe I can get over this too". When we tell our stories, it is our struggles that inspire others. When we share of our troubles others connect with us.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,947
Originally Posted by zbear23
Error can be corrected. Sin is eternal.
I used to see it that way zbear. I have come to understand sin as behavior or action which blocks you from God. If I stop the behavior/sin I'm no longer removed or blocked from God.
So in step seven I am looking to come back to God. And, as usual, especially here, it is progress not perfection.
In Him, with Him....
Mark
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Interventionist-
Nature intervenes when we polute her oceans and air and retaliates with disease and greenhouse gasses ( not opening the door to debate an outside issue, just giving an example!). She also rewards us for being good stewards of her resources. That is intervention.
People intervene when others want to do better- folks will often go out of their way to help the perosn who is really trying as opposed to the one who is half-assing it.
Someone is in a burning building screaming help and complete stranger drop what they are doing and rush to their aid. These things do happen everyday in our world.
I do not believe in a Deaity with a name myself- I do believe in a power that I can tap into that has been providing me with examples in everyday life if I only look. Step seven is my asking for help, steps 8-11 is me accepting the help that is given and step 12 is the result.
The wording is quite optional....
I agree with all of that
Nature intervenes when we polute her oceans and air and retaliates with disease and greenhouse gasses ( not opening the door to debate an outside issue, just giving an example!). She also rewards us for being good stewards of her resources. That is intervention.
People intervene when others want to do better- folks will often go out of their way to help the perosn who is really trying as opposed to the one who is half-assing it.
Someone is in a burning building screaming help and complete stranger drop what they are doing and rush to their aid. These things do happen everyday in our world.
I do not believe in a Deaity with a name myself- I do believe in a power that I can tap into that has been providing me with examples in everyday life if I only look. Step seven is my asking for help, steps 8-11 is me accepting the help that is given and step 12 is the result.
Anyway....I believe the so-called "character defects" or "shortcomings," are related to my thoughts and behaviors: thus, I can with practice change them. They are not "removed." But the better I get at "practicing these principles in all my affairs," the less those character defects show up. Of course, if I cease my practice, they may be lurking in wait for me: thus....my only defense is to maintain my spiritual fitness.
I agree with all of that
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Zion, Illinois
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Originally Posted by DayTrader
I don't mean to sound as if I'm advocating taking what is supposed to be a simple program and making it complex
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