Elsie

So...he's still in Florida due to his Father's passing.

I'm certain now that he misconstrued my compassion for a person who just lost a loved one, for me wanting to get back together with him.

Here are some excerpts from his emails over the past couple of days:

"Stay outta trouble LC! Miss all of you" (This was my first inkling that he was confused..he misses all of us?)

"We(he and his sister) are at the hilton on the ocean in daytona where WE(meaning he and I) should be"

"Are you there? I need a friend."

"This whole experience is wearing me down. I wish I had a friend like you to be with me. Once again I have learned so much about me, relationships, longevity and happiness. I hope I get the chance to first tell you. Then secondly, show you"

"I am ok. Sad. You? Miss me just a little?" (I did not respond to this one)

"I am so sorry you don't know what to say to me anymore. I am hurting. I am just distraught. I think I am getting the message now."

"Its day 10. I am proud of myself and I am confident. I also recognize signs in my life. Its all good, I dig being your friend always."

(and email he sent after this seemed concerned becaue I wasn't replying. To avoid having him call me, I asked if he would be going home soon)

"Maybe tuesday. I am not sure anyone from aside from work wants me home anyway actually. I need a partner. I need a friend. I need a lover."

(I replied back "TUESDAY!?" Then asked how his sister was)

"Told ya no one was interested"

(Then I asked him to stop trying to make me feel guilty.)

"Wasn't aimed at you LC! I don't do guilt. Part of aa."

"If you feel bad you have your own reasons, not mine. We share a wonderful son. We will always be friends. Day 11 tomorrow. I think something good will come to me. Soon. I deserve it. I aint so bad."

(I told him I felt like he was trying to guilt me, and that it wasn't fair)

"I will always love and cherished you. That's is never been my MO"

I just want to say something here too.....as I'm copying and pasting this stuff I feel weird, like I'm telling secrets or doing something horribly wrong. Like I'm letting everyone read a secret journal or something. But....I feel like I need everyone here to see and read it and offer advice. I mean, is this even AA/alcoholic related anymore? Maybe I had it right before when I was reading the book "Inside the minds of angry and controlling men"
Maybe even he DOES stop drinking for the rest of his life he'll still have issues. He'll still be manipulative? Still play the guilt card?
Should I even be posting here anymore?

You guys all seem to understand that this is about healing, and progress, and about relationship issues, where as if I told this in any other forum I'd be told to cut all ties immediately, restraining orders, tell him to F off, go to court etc. and if I didn't do it within 3 days to a week, they'd all be saying that I was insane and maybe I just liked the drama he caused etc.
The only reason I haven't told him to back way off right now, is because the man just lost his father. 2 days ago he touched his passed on father's cold hands, how am I supposed to tell him to take his comments and shove 'em?

Yes he has issues, but he's human, and he's hurting immensely.

I dunno guys....what do I do?
Sometimes I think to myself that I should just get back with him. And then I feel like slapping myself for even thinking that.

:wtf2

LaTeeDa

Boundaries.

GiveLove

It's your life and your choice, Elsie. If you continue allowing this kind of communication, you will continue to get these messages. Maybe go back and read your early posts, and remember why you came here in the first place?

Just because he's hurting doesn't mean YOU have to be his rescuer. You've chosen that role yourself, and you can gently un-choose it any time you want.

If you really want to change your life for the better, you need to change your dynamic with him (he's not going to do it). But that's totally up to you.

Good luck

coffeedrinker

Hey Lisa,

You DO NOT have to make a decision about the rest of your life, and where he fits into it, today, tomorrow or even next month.

I remember some of you guys telling me that about two weeks ago and it helped immensely. Sometimes now when my head goes there ("should I commit?" "should I cut off from him?" "where are we going?") I remind myself of that good advice. It lets me off the hook.

You are wondering. You are slipping back a little. Normal. Maybe remind yourself of exactly why you cut ties and went N/C? You said something about a restraining order....was he violent?

About the current situation - his father's death. For one thing, I don't think he necessarily needs you or anyone to be especially gentle with him because of that. Remember, him hitting bottom is about him feeling emotionally destitute, realizing that he has ruined every one of his important relationships because of the bottle. He's sad, his father just died. Ok. He has no one in that hotel room with him FOR A REASON.
And the second thing is....well I'm not so sure I'm buying that the only reason you have reached out at all is because his father just died. Not saying I don't, just sayin I'm not sure. Are you?

coffeedrinker

oh, i forgot to add that i don't think it's certain that his words are about trying to guilt you. i don't know him, so i don't know if that's one of his deals. perhaps he, from where he's sitting, is doing what he thinks he should, is right, expressing himself, trying for another reconciliation, whatever. that's not the point. as ltd said: boundaries.

IamSaved

Elsie,

I know what you mean about posting things that are insanely private. You think, OMG I am being a tattler! I am exposing him and his secrets!

Aren't we, as enablers, always the keepers of their secrets? Someone once told me, the devil does his best work in the dark. How true!

I see a very desperate man in these emails, and he is working you girl! OMG..is he working you! As hard as it might be...DELETE DELETE DELETE before you even READ them. He is playing on your compassion, and he thinks he can do the dance, and hook you right back into his madness.

Be strong! You are doing so well, do NOT allow this sad event to trigger your need to help or fix him. Only he can do that. He is feeling pain and he is unaware on how to deal with it, because he is so used to being NUMB to any sort of feeling.

Peace and
Stay strong!

suki44883

I'm really not trying to be critical but...that's an awful lot of contact with him. With all of that texting back and forth, no wonder you are feeling weak. Yes, his father's death is sad, but that is no reason to weaken your resolve to get away from him. He is manipulating you. He is chipping away at your defenses and you are allowing it by texting with him continuously. It's a good idea to go back and read your first posts here to refresh your memory. You are separated from him for a reason and his father's death shouldn't affect that in any way. No one is saying you should be rude, but there is a difference between being rude and being firm.

Elsie

Thanks for the replies thusfar.....

I emailed him this morning, wanting to know if he was going to be home this weekend. I asked because I thought he might want to see his son, but if not I may have done something with my Mom because she's having some issues with her boyfriend and she wanted to come see me.


Here's my lovely reply from him:
"Why doesn't your mom just dump (her boyfriend) when things get a little hard? Seems like the (our family's last name) family thing to do. I am not coming home for a long time. Try calling my mom. She would like to see him."

What an A-hole.

suki44883

Sounds like the perfect opportunity to reinstate the no contact rule. Stop texting, stop reading, stop communicating.

Elsie

I agree. He sent another saying he was sorry that he was burrying his Dad today and that his emotions are out of control.
In my mind that's no reason to treat me like crap when I've been supportive of him all week when we aren't even together anymore.

I love it when true colours come out! Everything happens for a reason, and this happening has a very big reason.

suki44883

They always, ALWAYS have an excuse. Don't buy it. The best response is no response.

wicked

aaaaaannnndddd........
there it is.

I find this fascinating, because this could have been exactly what my exAH said to me.
I realized yesterday that it was all about meeting his needs.
He is sober for over a week, and now he is a nice guy who knows all about relationships?
(My exAH) was all about his needs.
Not mine, not our children, his needs.
what an a hole is right.
beth

Elsie

Oh man...another one....I'm not even replying to him.

"I said I was sorry. This whole ordeal I thought you would be concerned and worried and maybe call like a friend would but you never did. Because we are done doesn't mean we aren't friends. I put your name on the flowers btw. And I am absolutely convinced your silence tells me you aren't in love with me and found someone else. I even talked to my sister about it. This is the worst time of my life. I haven't drank at all, I am sick I am tired and I miss you. Why am I so honest with you when you don't care about me?"

IamSaved

I am AMAZED at their manipulative ways! Amazed!!!!

They are the SICK ones, but we are the ones that don't understand them, don't know about relationships, and are controlling hags!

OMG...delete delete delete! Cleanse yourself of this madness!

That he is using his father's death to make YOU feel bad is ridiculous. Yes, it is sad, but it is not a reason for him to manipulate you back into his web of deceit.

I say NC all the way. A HOLE for sure!

IamSaved

And the Oscar goes to.....................................

Is this guy KIDDING ME? Wow, he sure knows how to play the game doesn't he?



He is desperate, and he is trying to engage you in the dance of the addict. Don't bite! Please! What an actor!

Boo hoo..you don't care about me. Your silence means you don't love me. How can YOU do this to ME? RESCUE ME!!!!
Cry me a river... Seriously, how pathetic.

Elsie

I have almost every single he's ever sent me during the past 3 years. I save them all to a folder.
At first it was because when I met him his emails were all 'nicey nice'....but now, I keep them all incase I ever need to use them.

He can be incredibly nasty when he wants to, and I have MUCH evidence of that.
So, I read them, then file them away incase I need them.

You know...I kept finding pennies on the floor/ground today. You know that saying...See a penny, pick it up, all day long you'll have good luck!
This is the best thing that could've happened to me today.....he finally broke his 'nice guy' demeanor and showed himself...again.

I have that feeling of "relief" again, that I did when I broke up with him a couple weeks ago.
Phew!

ChildrenB4AW

Elsie - you need to stay focused on yourself. He is experiencing life without alcohol which is very stressful. At this point in his recovery, he is a sober alcoholic; still using the same manipulative techniques that he used when he was drinking. This roller coaster will continue until he starts to rely on himself to sort through his feelings, and starts to develop coping mechanisms that don't include alcohol. He wants you back so he can avoid looking deeply into himself. It's a dark and scary place - AA and his sponsor will help him on his journey, his focus on you keeps him from committing that the journey.

Set your boundaries and stick to them. They can be very charming, I always remember the terrible things that happened because of my wife's illness so I don't get get pulled back in for another ride on the merry-go-round. It took me 5 years to finally say "I've had enough". They pick us for a reason - we are willing to put up with a lot.

You can make it - he is responsible for his feelings, his actions, and you are responsible for yours - don't confuse yours and his

coffeedrinker

"I'm sorry" isn't a magic eraser that he gets to just pick up and it's like he didn't do anything really crappy.

I'm surprised the last email didn't say "I'M SORRY, DAMMMIT!...NOW C'MON!"

I think his emotions are all over the map. I think he does care for you. But he is not used to you sticking up for yourself and asserting your needs. He was blown away and can't handle it. Pretty soon you're gonna be his reason for tying one on. If he doesn't, and really stays sober, good, your son has an intact father. But he is SSOOO far from that right now, I can feel it, and I don't even know him.

Would you feel more settled if you replied that because his words are so hurtful to you, you CANNOT speak, text, or email him for the next _____ days, and thereafter ONLY regarding your son?

FindingPeace1

I friggin' LOVE IT! Not in those words, but my AH HAS said the above! LOL!