Step 3- only a decision eh????
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: manchester
Posts: 22
Step 3- only a decision eh????
Step 3, only a decision........well so is making a decision to get married or move house or go on holiday or get a sex change...........but i would think long and hard about those decisions, especially the last one!!!!!!!!
My point is that these decisions pail into insignificance when compared to the decision to turn my will, my thinking, and my life, my actions, over to the care of God, as i understood him.
That is not to say that i delay moving from step 3 immediately to step 4 but if i fail to see what it is i am doing and why in step 3 it is highly unlikely that i will undertake step 4 with the gusto of a drowning man.
Its all in the book..........
Saying that this decision was made easy for me when i understood and took the first two steps. Step one, the problem, no power- over alcohol, step 2, the solution, need power- over alcohol. Step 3 is an easy decison if we fully understand steps 1 and 2, what makes me an alcoholic, the illness of alcoholism and the solution.
In a nutshell unless i get some power and it had better be greater than me i will drink again, dont know where, dont know when but i know some ........you get the point.
Step 3 is huge , it is my plan for living, thats why it is suggested we think long and hard about it.
As for God, well it says as we understood him, past tense, implies we have a conception of what God means to us. I can never understand God, how can I, I am a mere mortal but i can have an understanding of what the word God means to me, my own conception, however inadequate.
If we can choose our own conception of God then why not make it a good one, we agnostics gives some good guiding principles for what God could mean to us.
Why would i choose i light bulb, why would i want to turn my thoughts and actions over to a light bulb? Anyway later in the steps how does this work....
admitted to a light bulb, ourselves and another human being the exact nature of our wrongs??????????
were entirely ready to have a light bulb remove all my character defects???
humbly asked a light bulb to remove my short comings?????????
and then
sought through prayer and meditation to improve my conscious contact with a light bulb praying only for knowledge of the light bulbs will for me and the power to carry it out????????????
come on...............
having had an electrical awakening i try and carry this message to others and practise these principles in all my affairs..............
what happened to being restored to sanity.............
My point being that if i get to choose a God to save me its going to be the best God that anyone ever heard of, its going to be a loving, caring, kind, forgiving God that even loves me.......
A God that has all power and all i need to do is get rid of all the stuff that is blocking me from him so i can have a personal relationship with him and he can remove my obsession for alcohol and then care for me and direct me............why because i can not do it.
I need to stop playing God, ask him for help and let him do his job.
Then i immediately do my step 4, why because i want this God , not a light bulb, in my life.
TRUST God T.ry R.eally U.sing S.tep T.hree
Ask for HELP H.is E.ver L.oving P.resence
What ever God we choose does not matter, that is our own affair, fill your boots, but why not choose one that has all Power, may you find him now.
My point is that these decisions pail into insignificance when compared to the decision to turn my will, my thinking, and my life, my actions, over to the care of God, as i understood him.
That is not to say that i delay moving from step 3 immediately to step 4 but if i fail to see what it is i am doing and why in step 3 it is highly unlikely that i will undertake step 4 with the gusto of a drowning man.
Its all in the book..........
Saying that this decision was made easy for me when i understood and took the first two steps. Step one, the problem, no power- over alcohol, step 2, the solution, need power- over alcohol. Step 3 is an easy decison if we fully understand steps 1 and 2, what makes me an alcoholic, the illness of alcoholism and the solution.
In a nutshell unless i get some power and it had better be greater than me i will drink again, dont know where, dont know when but i know some ........you get the point.
Step 3 is huge , it is my plan for living, thats why it is suggested we think long and hard about it.
As for God, well it says as we understood him, past tense, implies we have a conception of what God means to us. I can never understand God, how can I, I am a mere mortal but i can have an understanding of what the word God means to me, my own conception, however inadequate.
If we can choose our own conception of God then why not make it a good one, we agnostics gives some good guiding principles for what God could mean to us.
Why would i choose i light bulb, why would i want to turn my thoughts and actions over to a light bulb? Anyway later in the steps how does this work....
admitted to a light bulb, ourselves and another human being the exact nature of our wrongs??????????
were entirely ready to have a light bulb remove all my character defects???
humbly asked a light bulb to remove my short comings?????????
and then
sought through prayer and meditation to improve my conscious contact with a light bulb praying only for knowledge of the light bulbs will for me and the power to carry it out????????????
come on...............
having had an electrical awakening i try and carry this message to others and practise these principles in all my affairs..............
what happened to being restored to sanity.............
My point being that if i get to choose a God to save me its going to be the best God that anyone ever heard of, its going to be a loving, caring, kind, forgiving God that even loves me.......
A God that has all power and all i need to do is get rid of all the stuff that is blocking me from him so i can have a personal relationship with him and he can remove my obsession for alcohol and then care for me and direct me............why because i can not do it.
I need to stop playing God, ask him for help and let him do his job.
Then i immediately do my step 4, why because i want this God , not a light bulb, in my life.
TRUST God T.ry R.eally U.sing S.tep T.hree
Ask for HELP H.is E.ver L.oving P.resence
What ever God we choose does not matter, that is our own affair, fill your boots, but why not choose one that has all Power, may you find him now.
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 4,682
You know i've thought about this recently, my sponsor is great and i hope to be one in the future, God willing of course...i came into the rooms in 2001 for a couple of meetings to see if AA could stop me drinking...i returned in 2009 to see if AA could save my life...needless to say step 3 was not an issue for me on the latter visit...i remember my sponsor asking me have i made a decision, heck yes i have...step 3 done in a few sentences...
But before in 2001 would i have done the same even with sitting in meetings, all the literature in the world and the same sponsor i have now...no i don't think i would have (i don't know for sure, but i don't think so)...my thought was can you take this step if you aren't ready, can you breeze over it and get some sort of vague affirmation from the new member to get onto step 4 or would it be a waste of their time, as in what you have said that they would not do a fearless and searching inventory and just be paying lip service?
But before in 2001 would i have done the same even with sitting in meetings, all the literature in the world and the same sponsor i have now...no i don't think i would have (i don't know for sure, but i don't think so)...my thought was can you take this step if you aren't ready, can you breeze over it and get some sort of vague affirmation from the new member to get onto step 4 or would it be a waste of their time, as in what you have said that they would not do a fearless and searching inventory and just be paying lip service?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: manchester
Posts: 22
to live upon spiritual principles or die an alcoholic death are not always easy alternatives to face..........they are when we hit bottom......and hitting bottom is not the outside circumstances.......it is an inside job.........it was when i screamed out to who ever, where ever, whateve for help.did not know who i was asking or what i was asking but he or she did ..........i was ready.......... i was ready to do what ever it took, no conditons to get out of that dark dark place.........i begged for help and he sent me to AA and thats where i found the Power, step 3 was already made although i did not know it at the time, call it God, call it burt,fred or ernie........as long as it had the power to restore my sanity it could have my will and my life, they were not worth a penny anyway.......they did me no good until i worked the steps(any lenghts) and conformed my will to that of Gods for me, to be sober, happy, joyous and free.
We hit bottom when we ask for help not when we lose our job, our car, our house, our family, when we realise we can not do it. Then the steps show me who can, God as i understand him,step 3 gave the power ifelt in the meetings a name....step 3 is easy when we are shown by a good sponsor and we have hit bottom and are ready.
Step three is diffcult when we have not done step 1.
If we agreed at the beginning we would go to any lenthgs then why the pause at step 3, it could hardly have been a surprise, we knew what was coming.
Too many times we bend the steps for the defiant newcomer and then blame him for picking up, strong sponsorship breads strong recovery. The steps work, we dont have to change them, bend them or try and fit them to a new comer. We allow him to continue to try to run the show.
Thanks for your comments buddy, i was the same came and went until there was no where else to go and then turned to what i later in step 3 called God.
We hit bottom when we ask for help not when we lose our job, our car, our house, our family, when we realise we can not do it. Then the steps show me who can, God as i understand him,step 3 gave the power ifelt in the meetings a name....step 3 is easy when we are shown by a good sponsor and we have hit bottom and are ready.
Step three is diffcult when we have not done step 1.
If we agreed at the beginning we would go to any lenthgs then why the pause at step 3, it could hardly have been a surprise, we knew what was coming.
Too many times we bend the steps for the defiant newcomer and then blame him for picking up, strong sponsorship breads strong recovery. The steps work, we dont have to change them, bend them or try and fit them to a new comer. We allow him to continue to try to run the show.
Thanks for your comments buddy, i was the same came and went until there was no where else to go and then turned to what i later in step 3 called God.
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Swish Alps, SF CA
Posts: 2,144
Hummm
Made a decision to turn our will and our life over to the care of God as we understand him
Looks like a decision to me
What does the BB say about all of this?
Yeah, looks like a decision
What does the BB say about discussing other peoples concept of God with them?
Hmmm, as far as people worshipping a light bulb, hey, I've seen crazier stuff, do you realize there is a giant cult out there that worships a carpenter that hung out with hookers and was nailed to a piece of wood?
I mean how crazy is that, right?
So for me, I came to the conclusion that you worry about your concept of God, and I'll worry about mine, even if it's a "light bulb", My God is none of your business, and vice versa, my job isn't to tell you what that concept is, my job is to walk you through the steps to put you into contact with that Higher Power
Here is how I start with Atheist/Agnostics with step 3
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-three-aa.html
If you wonder about my personal concept of God, it's scattered in this thread
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...stand-him.html
So it appears the BB says we can choose any concept we like, it also appears to give VERY specific instructions and how to approach others about making that concept.
I especially like where the BB says we don't have all the answers, and we have no axes to grind, that people have no lectures to endure from us, and we don't preach from moral and spiritual hilltops and love and tolerance of others is our code
All Quotes from BB 1st edition
Made a decision to turn our will and our life over to the care of God as we understand him
Looks like a decision to me
What does the BB say about all of this?
This is the how and the why of it. First of all, we had to quit playing God. It didn't work. Next, we decided that hereafter in this drama of life, God was going to be our Director
. He is the Principal; we are His agents. He is the Father, and we are His children. Most Good ideas are simple, and this concept was the keystone of the new and triumphant arch through which we passed to freedom.
When we sincerely took such a position, all sorts of remarkable things followed. We had a new Employer. Being all powerful, He provided what we needed, if we kept close to Him and performed His work well. Established on such a footing we became less and less interested in ourselves, our own little plans and designs. More and more we became interested in seeing what we could contribute to life. As we felt new power flow in, as we enjoyed peace of mind, as we discovered we could face life successfully, as we became conscious of His presence, we began to lose our fear of today, tomorrow or the hereafter. We were reborn.
We were now at Step Three. Many of us said to our Maker, as we understood Him: "God, I offer myself to Thee — to build with me and to do with me as Thou wilt. Relieve me of the bondage of self, that I may better do Thy will. Take away my difficulties, that victory over them may bear witness to those I would help of Thy Power, Thy Love, and Thy Way of life. May I do Thy will always!" We thought well before taking this step making sure we were ready; that we could at last abandon ourselves utterly to Him.
We found it very desirable to take this spiritual step with an understanding person, such as our wife, best friend, or spiritual adviser. But it is better to meet God alone than with one who might misunderstand. The wording was, of course, quite optional so long as we expressed the idea, voicing it without reservation. This was only a beginning, though if honestly and humbly made, an effect, sometimes a very great one, was felt at once
. He is the Principal; we are His agents. He is the Father, and we are His children. Most Good ideas are simple, and this concept was the keystone of the new and triumphant arch through which we passed to freedom.
When we sincerely took such a position, all sorts of remarkable things followed. We had a new Employer. Being all powerful, He provided what we needed, if we kept close to Him and performed His work well. Established on such a footing we became less and less interested in ourselves, our own little plans and designs. More and more we became interested in seeing what we could contribute to life. As we felt new power flow in, as we enjoyed peace of mind, as we discovered we could face life successfully, as we became conscious of His presence, we began to lose our fear of today, tomorrow or the hereafter. We were reborn.
We were now at Step Three. Many of us said to our Maker, as we understood Him: "God, I offer myself to Thee — to build with me and to do with me as Thou wilt. Relieve me of the bondage of self, that I may better do Thy will. Take away my difficulties, that victory over them may bear witness to those I would help of Thy Power, Thy Love, and Thy Way of life. May I do Thy will always!" We thought well before taking this step making sure we were ready; that we could at last abandon ourselves utterly to Him.
We found it very desirable to take this spiritual step with an understanding person, such as our wife, best friend, or spiritual adviser. But it is better to meet God alone than with one who might misunderstand. The wording was, of course, quite optional so long as we expressed the idea, voicing it without reservation. This was only a beginning, though if honestly and humbly made, an effect, sometimes a very great one, was felt at once
What does the BB say about discussing other peoples concept of God with them?
We found that as soon as we were able to lay aside prejudice and express even a willingness to believe in a Power greater than ourselves, we commenced to get results, even though it was impossible for any of us to fully define or comprehend that Power, which is God.
Tell him exactly what happened to you. Stress the spiritual feature freely. If the man be agnostic or atheist, make it emphatic that he does not have to agree with your conception of God. He can choose any conception he likes, provided it makes sense to him. The main thing is that he be willing to believe in a Power greater than himself and that he live by spiritual principles.
There is no use arousing any prejudice he may have against certain theological terms and conceptions about which he may already be confused. Don't raise such issues, no matter what your own convictions are.
You will be most successful with alcoholics if you do not exhibit any passion for crusade or reform. Never talk down to an alcoholic from any moral or spiritual hilltop; simply lay out the kit of spiritual tools for his inspection. Show him how they worked with you.
He should not be pushed or prodded by you, his wife, or his friends. If he is to find God, the desire must come from within.
If he thinks he can do the job in some other way, or prefers some other spiritual approach, encourage him to follow his own conscience. We have no monopoly on God; we merely have an approach that worked with us
Tell him exactly what happened to you. Stress the spiritual feature freely. If the man be agnostic or atheist, make it emphatic that he does not have to agree with your conception of God. He can choose any conception he likes, provided it makes sense to him. The main thing is that he be willing to believe in a Power greater than himself and that he live by spiritual principles.
There is no use arousing any prejudice he may have against certain theological terms and conceptions about which he may already be confused. Don't raise such issues, no matter what your own convictions are.
You will be most successful with alcoholics if you do not exhibit any passion for crusade or reform. Never talk down to an alcoholic from any moral or spiritual hilltop; simply lay out the kit of spiritual tools for his inspection. Show him how they worked with you.
He should not be pushed or prodded by you, his wife, or his friends. If he is to find God, the desire must come from within.
If he thinks he can do the job in some other way, or prefers some other spiritual approach, encourage him to follow his own conscience. We have no monopoly on God; we merely have an approach that worked with us
I mean how crazy is that, right?
So for me, I came to the conclusion that you worry about your concept of God, and I'll worry about mine, even if it's a "light bulb", My God is none of your business, and vice versa, my job isn't to tell you what that concept is, my job is to walk you through the steps to put you into contact with that Higher Power
Here is how I start with Atheist/Agnostics with step 3
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-three-aa.html
If you wonder about my personal concept of God, it's scattered in this thread
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...stand-him.html
So it appears the BB says we can choose any concept we like, it also appears to give VERY specific instructions and how to approach others about making that concept.
I especially like where the BB says we don't have all the answers, and we have no axes to grind, that people have no lectures to endure from us, and we don't preach from moral and spiritual hilltops and love and tolerance of others is our code
All Quotes from BB 1st edition
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: manchester
Posts: 22
A decision, yes indeed and a pretty big decision, thats my point buddy.
Dont disagree with you, perhaps my post gave you the wrong impression on this. This is a massive decision and should not be taken lightly.
We thought well before taking this step making sure we were ready; that we could at last abandon ourselves utterly to Him.
As far as God goes, your right again, your concept, my concept, your business, my business.
He can choose any conception he likes, provided it makes sense to him. The main thing is that he be willing to believe in a Power greater than himself and that he live by spiritual principles.
A Power greater than himself that can restore his sanity, remove the obsession for alcohol.
If he believes his parrott, his light bulb, his ash tray have that Power and are a Power greater than himself then have a party, if not it might be worth reconsidering.
I can not tell anyone what to believe in and wouldn't but guess what, if what comes out of his mouth is plain insanity then yes i am going to say something...why...because i care less about what he thinks of me and more about him getting that Power that can do what i can not.
The book actually uses the word "protege" which in Nutalls standard dictonary of that time meant someone under the protection of. Protection from what. The main problem of the alcoholic centres in his mind. To say nothing would be self centered.
Tell you what, why not let him decide for himself what powerless over alcohol means... sorry but we lead the new man by the hand not skip with him down past the fairys.
Not saying i dictate what he should or should not beleve in but i will ask if he believes the Concept of God which he understands is more powerful than him and can restore his sanity. Perhaps the Power within the rooms, that will do fine, i could not care less what he believes in as long as it makes sense to him.
Yes we walk them through the steps, we guide them and pass on what has been freely given, not allow them to walk blind with no help or instruction and yes i said instruction.
Some members may need help in understanding the text, understanding the meaning of words or the what the authors were trying to get across. Understanding alcoholism and whats makes me an alcoholic. Not my message, the message in the book. Guide, protect, instruct, teach, love and respect.
Christianity and light bulb worship....leave that one to the christians...think i have made my point on that one.
Your right again, i do not have al the answers but i know something that will "solve all my problems". I know what i am, i know what was wrong with me and i know what to do about it, if someone wants to know how i got that answer i will be more than happy, negh delighted and honoured to "show" them how i got it.
This is not done with lectures, axes, preaching or hill tops. It is done with love , compassion, understanding, empathy, kindness, tolerance and above all experience and knowledge.
I am sorry if you took my post the wrong way, the simple truth is that our beautiful program of recovery that led me to a god of my understanding and led to the release from a hopeless condition of mind and body is quoted, passed, taught, philosophised and watered down to such an extent that alcoholics are dying and if my words upset some whilst helpng others to get to where i am then so be it. Again i care more about the still suffering alcoholic than i care about what people think about me.
A common solution. A solution that works. A solution that has led me and many many others to a place of gratitude and humlity. My life is a wonderful place to be and i will hopefully never fullfill my debt of grattude but will continue n this altruistic movement where self sacrifice rewards more than any material gain could ever.
We have recovered and been given the power to HELP others.
Step 3 - A decision-yes- a big one!
Dont disagree with you, perhaps my post gave you the wrong impression on this. This is a massive decision and should not be taken lightly.
We thought well before taking this step making sure we were ready; that we could at last abandon ourselves utterly to Him.
As far as God goes, your right again, your concept, my concept, your business, my business.
He can choose any conception he likes, provided it makes sense to him. The main thing is that he be willing to believe in a Power greater than himself and that he live by spiritual principles.
A Power greater than himself that can restore his sanity, remove the obsession for alcohol.
If he believes his parrott, his light bulb, his ash tray have that Power and are a Power greater than himself then have a party, if not it might be worth reconsidering.
I can not tell anyone what to believe in and wouldn't but guess what, if what comes out of his mouth is plain insanity then yes i am going to say something...why...because i care less about what he thinks of me and more about him getting that Power that can do what i can not.
The book actually uses the word "protege" which in Nutalls standard dictonary of that time meant someone under the protection of. Protection from what. The main problem of the alcoholic centres in his mind. To say nothing would be self centered.
Tell you what, why not let him decide for himself what powerless over alcohol means... sorry but we lead the new man by the hand not skip with him down past the fairys.
Not saying i dictate what he should or should not beleve in but i will ask if he believes the Concept of God which he understands is more powerful than him and can restore his sanity. Perhaps the Power within the rooms, that will do fine, i could not care less what he believes in as long as it makes sense to him.
Yes we walk them through the steps, we guide them and pass on what has been freely given, not allow them to walk blind with no help or instruction and yes i said instruction.
Some members may need help in understanding the text, understanding the meaning of words or the what the authors were trying to get across. Understanding alcoholism and whats makes me an alcoholic. Not my message, the message in the book. Guide, protect, instruct, teach, love and respect.
Christianity and light bulb worship....leave that one to the christians...think i have made my point on that one.
Your right again, i do not have al the answers but i know something that will "solve all my problems". I know what i am, i know what was wrong with me and i know what to do about it, if someone wants to know how i got that answer i will be more than happy, negh delighted and honoured to "show" them how i got it.
This is not done with lectures, axes, preaching or hill tops. It is done with love , compassion, understanding, empathy, kindness, tolerance and above all experience and knowledge.
I am sorry if you took my post the wrong way, the simple truth is that our beautiful program of recovery that led me to a god of my understanding and led to the release from a hopeless condition of mind and body is quoted, passed, taught, philosophised and watered down to such an extent that alcoholics are dying and if my words upset some whilst helpng others to get to where i am then so be it. Again i care more about the still suffering alcoholic than i care about what people think about me.
A common solution. A solution that works. A solution that has led me and many many others to a place of gratitude and humlity. My life is a wonderful place to be and i will hopefully never fullfill my debt of grattude but will continue n this altruistic movement where self sacrifice rewards more than any material gain could ever.
We have recovered and been given the power to HELP others.
Step 3 - A decision-yes- a big one!
Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 53
The steps are simple clear and easy to read instructions
TRUST IN GOD, clean house and give freely what you find.
People who cannot follow simple instructions usually gets institutionalized and ordered by people
A.A. Big Book has a much better way than people who think they found it or enjoy yard games.
What you rely on is really what one believes in - personalities (people) or principles (God)
Even the devil believes in God - just cant seem to rely on him
TRUST IN GOD, clean house and give freely what you find.
People who cannot follow simple instructions usually gets institutionalized and ordered by people
A.A. Big Book has a much better way than people who think they found it or enjoy yard games.
What you rely on is really what one believes in - personalities (people) or principles (God)
Even the devil believes in God - just cant seem to rely on him
Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 1,622
Here are some of my thoughts on this.
Alcohol helped me make my decision in step 3. I was willing to try anything. It was kindly explained to me by a big book thumper that I was making a decision to take action. Action would lead to the solution to my problems - a spiritual awakening or experience.
I found my Higher Power by doing the steps. If I had to believe in God first and completely turn my life over to His care first before I took the steps, I am certain I would have died. That could have taken me ther rest of my life - trying to do that on my own without the steps.
The book is clear. All I needed was an open mind. God did the rest and the steps opened the door.
For me, saying we must believe in a HP before we take the steps is like saying you have to be well before you can take your medicine.
Looking back, I see that there is no way I could have imagined what my decision would lead to. It is indescribable to be recovered.
No - my decision back then was simiply to stop relying on myself and to try something new. I wasn't really capable of much more in-depth analysis back then. Brain fog still prevailed. lol
Since then, by practicing the growth steps, my wish to turn my life over has become stronger and stronger every day.
Alcohol helped me make my decision in step 3. I was willing to try anything. It was kindly explained to me by a big book thumper that I was making a decision to take action. Action would lead to the solution to my problems - a spiritual awakening or experience.
I found my Higher Power by doing the steps. If I had to believe in God first and completely turn my life over to His care first before I took the steps, I am certain I would have died. That could have taken me ther rest of my life - trying to do that on my own without the steps.
The book is clear. All I needed was an open mind. God did the rest and the steps opened the door.
For me, saying we must believe in a HP before we take the steps is like saying you have to be well before you can take your medicine.
Looking back, I see that there is no way I could have imagined what my decision would lead to. It is indescribable to be recovered.
No - my decision back then was simiply to stop relying on myself and to try something new. I wasn't really capable of much more in-depth analysis back then. Brain fog still prevailed. lol
Since then, by practicing the growth steps, my wish to turn my life over has become stronger and stronger every day.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: manchester
Posts: 22
ditto pilgrim, alcohol was my great persuader too.. it was not so much that i had to believe in "a God" just face the fact that i was not God!!!!! and also that my plan for living did not work, after all i was in aa!!!
The belief in a higher power however is , in my opinion, fundamental to the working of the steps but what that higher power is is another issue. Like yourself if i would have had to believe in a "God like" higher power at the beginning i would have been screwed.
So how then could i come to believe in a power in 2 and hand my will and my life over in 3?
For me it was simple, it was the power in the meetings, it certainly had more power than i did and seemed to have worked for others. you plus me was a power greater than me.
Could i believe that this same power in the rooms could work for me...yes i could...my understanding of step 1 showed me how similar i was to others and it worked for them so why not me....an element of ego no doubt but enough to satisfy the step 2 conditions as such, no matter how inadequate.
So how could i hand my will and my life over to this power?
Simple , try to live a life and act in a manner that i could share it openly, honestly and without regret in a meeting. Not easy and sometimes not done but i gave it a go. I handed my will and my life, my thoughts and my actions over to the care and direction of the power in the meetings, the members and my sponsor.
What would they do? what would they suggest? I asked for help-constantly- in all areas- and took it until such time that i was in a position to act and think with the guidance and direction from an evolved higher power- God. I abandomed my life to aa and aa gave me a life back, one that is happy , joyous and free.
In a nutshell my power greater at the begining was you and all the other members, that was my conception of God and what i could willing turn my life over to. Still do actually but i now have a conception that has all power, that one is God, as i understand him, what he is , where he is and what he is called is an outside issue and has no place in aa.
How cool is that , the one thing all our Gods have in common is they send their alcys to AA, lets hope they stay and get recovered, happy, joyous and free.
May your God go with you and thank you all for being my power greater than myself when i needed it most.
The belief in a higher power however is , in my opinion, fundamental to the working of the steps but what that higher power is is another issue. Like yourself if i would have had to believe in a "God like" higher power at the beginning i would have been screwed.
So how then could i come to believe in a power in 2 and hand my will and my life over in 3?
For me it was simple, it was the power in the meetings, it certainly had more power than i did and seemed to have worked for others. you plus me was a power greater than me.
Could i believe that this same power in the rooms could work for me...yes i could...my understanding of step 1 showed me how similar i was to others and it worked for them so why not me....an element of ego no doubt but enough to satisfy the step 2 conditions as such, no matter how inadequate.
So how could i hand my will and my life over to this power?
Simple , try to live a life and act in a manner that i could share it openly, honestly and without regret in a meeting. Not easy and sometimes not done but i gave it a go. I handed my will and my life, my thoughts and my actions over to the care and direction of the power in the meetings, the members and my sponsor.
What would they do? what would they suggest? I asked for help-constantly- in all areas- and took it until such time that i was in a position to act and think with the guidance and direction from an evolved higher power- God. I abandomed my life to aa and aa gave me a life back, one that is happy , joyous and free.
In a nutshell my power greater at the begining was you and all the other members, that was my conception of God and what i could willing turn my life over to. Still do actually but i now have a conception that has all power, that one is God, as i understand him, what he is , where he is and what he is called is an outside issue and has no place in aa.
How cool is that , the one thing all our Gods have in common is they send their alcys to AA, lets hope they stay and get recovered, happy, joyous and free.
May your God go with you and thank you all for being my power greater than myself when i needed it most.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: atlanta, ga
Posts: 28
With all due respect, shut the "F" up and do your Damn fourth step!!! I swear, you sound just like me when I got to this ridiculously simple, uncomplicated decision.
I am an Alcoholic, which means I have been lying cheating and stealing in one form or for years or decades. I have been washing down these outrages to myself and others with an un-Godly, unnatural amount of alcohol. My brain is pickled! What possible concept of God can I think of that is even remotely useful to me???!!!
It's suggested that I make a decision to turn my will and my life, my thinking and my behavior, if that helps, to the care of God As I understand him. "But gosh!" I say, "I don't understand God very well at all!"
Fine. Don't worry about Him. He has a much better idea about me than I will ever have about Him. He knows who I am and where I'm at, and He loves me anyway.
My bigger problem, for reasons stated above, is that I really haven't a clue as to what my will and my life, my thinking and my behavior have been. And that is what my fourth step is for. And that is why it says NEXT!!! So rather than sit around in front of a damn monitor and jack-off about who God is and think of lame-ass reasons to delay the fourth step, Maybe I'd better get off my frightened little ass and go do the work that faith requires of me.
I bury someone close to me every six to eight months because of this disease. Get to work.
Faith is a verb. If I waited until things were just right, until I knew what the outcome was gonna be, I'd still be drinking. I demonstrate faith by doing whatever is in front of me, with out knowing the outcome.
The fourth step seems scary, but it's not impossible.
God seems scary, but he's not unnapproachable Get to work.
I am an Alcoholic, which means I have been lying cheating and stealing in one form or for years or decades. I have been washing down these outrages to myself and others with an un-Godly, unnatural amount of alcohol. My brain is pickled! What possible concept of God can I think of that is even remotely useful to me???!!!
It's suggested that I make a decision to turn my will and my life, my thinking and my behavior, if that helps, to the care of God As I understand him. "But gosh!" I say, "I don't understand God very well at all!"
Fine. Don't worry about Him. He has a much better idea about me than I will ever have about Him. He knows who I am and where I'm at, and He loves me anyway.
My bigger problem, for reasons stated above, is that I really haven't a clue as to what my will and my life, my thinking and my behavior have been. And that is what my fourth step is for. And that is why it says NEXT!!! So rather than sit around in front of a damn monitor and jack-off about who God is and think of lame-ass reasons to delay the fourth step, Maybe I'd better get off my frightened little ass and go do the work that faith requires of me.
I bury someone close to me every six to eight months because of this disease. Get to work.
Faith is a verb. If I waited until things were just right, until I knew what the outcome was gonna be, I'd still be drinking. I demonstrate faith by doing whatever is in front of me, with out knowing the outcome.
The fourth step seems scary, but it's not impossible.
God seems scary, but he's not unnapproachable Get to work.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: rochester ny
Posts: 164
Originally Posted by timbo555 
With all due respect, shut the "F" up and do your Damn fourth step!!! I swear, you sound just like me when I got to this ridiculously simple, uncomplicated decision.
I am an Alcoholic, which means I have been lying cheating and stealing in one form or for years or decades. I have been washing down these outrages to myself and others with an un-Godly, unnatural amount of alcohol. My brain is pickled! What possible concept of God can I think of that is even remotely useful to me???!!!
It's suggested that I make a decision to turn my will and my life, my thinking and my behavior, if that helps, to the care of God As I understand him. "But gosh!" I say, "I don't understand God very well at all!"
Fine. Don't worry about Him. He has a much better idea about me than I will ever have about Him. He knows who I am and where I'm at, and He loves me anyway.
My bigger problem, for reasons stated above, is that I really haven't a clue as to what my will and my life, my thinking and my behavior have been. And that is what my fourth step is for. And that is why it says NEXT!!! So rather than sit around in front of a damn monitor and jack-off about who God is and think of lame-ass reasons to delay the fourth step, Maybe I'd better get off my frightened little ass and go do the work that faith requires of me.
I bury someone close to me every six to eight months because of this disease. Get to work.
Faith is a verb. If I waited until things were just right, until I knew what the outcome was gonna be, I'd still be drinking. I demonstrate faith by doing whatever is in front of me, with out knowing the outcome.
The fourth step seems scary, but it's not impossible.
God seems scary, but he's not unnapproachable Get to work.
I am an Alcoholic, which means I have been lying cheating and stealing in one form or for years or decades. I have been washing down these outrages to myself and others with an un-Godly, unnatural amount of alcohol. My brain is pickled! What possible concept of God can I think of that is even remotely useful to me???!!!
It's suggested that I make a decision to turn my will and my life, my thinking and my behavior, if that helps, to the care of God As I understand him. "But gosh!" I say, "I don't understand God very well at all!"
Fine. Don't worry about Him. He has a much better idea about me than I will ever have about Him. He knows who I am and where I'm at, and He loves me anyway.
My bigger problem, for reasons stated above, is that I really haven't a clue as to what my will and my life, my thinking and my behavior have been. And that is what my fourth step is for. And that is why it says NEXT!!! So rather than sit around in front of a damn monitor and jack-off about who God is and think of lame-ass reasons to delay the fourth step, Maybe I'd better get off my frightened little ass and go do the work that faith requires of me.
I bury someone close to me every six to eight months because of this disease. Get to work.
Faith is a verb. If I waited until things were just right, until I knew what the outcome was gonna be, I'd still be drinking. I demonstrate faith by doing whatever is in front of me, with out knowing the outcome.
The fourth step seems scary, but it's not impossible.
God seems scary, but he's not unnapproachable Get to work.
co-signed! Here's the thing....an alcoholics "concept of god" before doing a 4th step is probably pretty f-ed up. Lets say I'm on step three. What is my will and my life? I might think I know, but that concept is also pretty f-ed up. I've made plenty of decisions in the past, but hmmmm...yep they were pretty f-ed up too.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: manchester
Posts: 22
i must have read it wrong.....where does it say "made a decision to do my fourth step??"
A good sponsor will do the third step in 5 mins provided that steps 1 and 2 are in place, firmly. Then we can do the next thing and start our inventory.
I do not understand God today, how can i, i am but human but that does not mean i could not have an understanding of what God meant to me, no matter how inadequate.
The steps are meant to be worked vigourously and quickly and thoroughly. I agree, get on with your fourth step, right after doing your third.
Modem to modem- crap- face to face- alcoholic to alcoholic-good.
Get a sponsor, read the book, do the work and get recovered- but not alone on a computer relying on people like me- who you do not know and for all you know have never spilt a drink down their tie never mind worked the steps and lived day by day practising the principles in all their affairs.
people die not just because they have not taken inventory, they die because they remained powerless over alcohol by not workeing the program as directed in our book and yes i said directed. it may be a suggested program but their are clear cut directions for working it in the book.
step 3- pages 60-63 starts with being convinced we were at step 3- it then goes on to tell us what it means and what we do- what more do we need than the book and a good sponsor-face to face.
go to meetings- get a sponsor-do the work and live your life, happy joyous and free from the mental obsession for alcohol.
A good sponsor will do the third step in 5 mins provided that steps 1 and 2 are in place, firmly. Then we can do the next thing and start our inventory.
I do not understand God today, how can i, i am but human but that does not mean i could not have an understanding of what God meant to me, no matter how inadequate.
The steps are meant to be worked vigourously and quickly and thoroughly. I agree, get on with your fourth step, right after doing your third.
Modem to modem- crap- face to face- alcoholic to alcoholic-good.
Get a sponsor, read the book, do the work and get recovered- but not alone on a computer relying on people like me- who you do not know and for all you know have never spilt a drink down their tie never mind worked the steps and lived day by day practising the principles in all their affairs.
people die not just because they have not taken inventory, they die because they remained powerless over alcohol by not workeing the program as directed in our book and yes i said directed. it may be a suggested program but their are clear cut directions for working it in the book.
step 3- pages 60-63 starts with being convinced we were at step 3- it then goes on to tell us what it means and what we do- what more do we need than the book and a good sponsor-face to face.
go to meetings- get a sponsor-do the work and live your life, happy joyous and free from the mental obsession for alcohol.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: manchester
Posts: 22
ps there is nothing wrong with discussing and learning more about the steps, i learnt about the steps after doing them with my sponsor and still do now. I enjoy digesting and breaking down the steps to further my own understanding so that i may pass on whatever i learn to the alcy who needs it.
The day i think i have got it i am dead but thankfully God will constantly disclose more to me as long as i continue to carry the vision of his will into all my activities-step 3
The day i think i have got it i am dead but thankfully God will constantly disclose more to me as long as i continue to carry the vision of his will into all my activities-step 3
Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 35
Go ahead... continue to mull this decision over but keep this in mind too, especially since there are so many who relapse doing the 1-2, 1-2, 1-2-3 shuffle, to fearful of what lies beyond the 3rd step because the course of action that follows is vigorous, indeed.
Over the last 26 years, my understanding of my HP has grown, evolved with time and while dry drunks are very much a part of my experience, I have also experienced God's Grace throughout it all and have not touched a drink.
So as has been suggested here..., get off your reasoning a$$ and just do it -- before you end up back in the bottle. Geeesh it's such a freaking simple program and you're complicating the he!! out of it!!
Over the last 26 years, my understanding of my HP has grown, evolved with time and while dry drunks are very much a part of my experience, I have also experienced God's Grace throughout it all and have not touched a drink.
So as has been suggested here..., get off your reasoning a$$ and just do it -- before you end up back in the bottle. Geeesh it's such a freaking simple program and you're complicating the he!! out of it!!
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 26,425
I have been trying to stay sober for 25 years..mostly in AA....in reviewing my history of relapse it is very clear that despite my attempts my step 3 was very shakey which lead to difficulties in future step work especially a dismal failure in steps 8 and 9....
Thus...I am ready to spend some time really being sure that i have built the firm foundation that the book talks about prior to going on.....without a solid step 3.....I am unable to complete the steps in a way that allows me to be sober...
what consitutes a failure to really take step 3? I don't really know yet. but I know taking step 4 doesn't mean I have taken step 3...it just appears that way. (just for me..for others it may be different...)
Thus...I am ready to spend some time really being sure that i have built the firm foundation that the book talks about prior to going on.....without a solid step 3.....I am unable to complete the steps in a way that allows me to be sober...
what consitutes a failure to really take step 3? I don't really know yet. but I know taking step 4 doesn't mean I have taken step 3...it just appears that way. (just for me..for others it may be different...)
Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 53
From A.A.
“The effectiveness of the whole A.A. program will rest upon how well and earnestly we have tried to come to “a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood him” Notice it does not say understand but understood
Many use the outside sponsorship system as an idol instead !!!!!!!
“The effectiveness of the whole A.A. program will rest upon how well and earnestly we have tried to come to “a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood him” Notice it does not say understand but understood
Many use the outside sponsorship system as an idol instead !!!!!!!
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Sparta NC
Posts: 1
Reading the description of your bottom allows me to feel the loneliness and desperation of mine. My battle was definitely within. I've always known that if I surrendered and asked for help from my higher power that it would be there. I also knew that I had to mean it, because it was for keeps this time. It was surrender or die. The decision I chose I'm grateful to say is working on the inside and the outside of me. Just as I knew it would. I have a new beginning and I am a beginner. Thanks for the reminder!
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Boston
Posts: 30
Originally Posted by Ago
Hummm
So it appears the BB says we can choose any concept we like,
So it appears the BB says we can choose any concept we like,
The attributes of God are right there in the book.
One who has all Power.
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Boston
Posts: 30
Originally Posted by ananda
I have been trying to stay sober for 25 years..mostly in AA....in reviewing my history of relapse it is very clear that despite my attempts my step 3 was very shakey which lead to difficulties in future step work especially a dismal failure in steps 8 and 9....
Thus...I am ready to spend some time really being sure that i have built the firm foundation that the book talks about prior to going on.....without a solid step 3.....I am unable to complete the steps in a way that allows me to be sober...
what consitutes a failure to really take step 3? I don't really know yet. but I know taking step 4 doesn't mean I have taken step 3...it just appears that way. (just for me..for others it may be different...)
Thus...I am ready to spend some time really being sure that i have built the firm foundation that the book talks about prior to going on.....without a solid step 3.....I am unable to complete the steps in a way that allows me to be sober...
what consitutes a failure to really take step 3? I don't really know yet. but I know taking step 4 doesn't mean I have taken step 3...it just appears that way. (just for me..for others it may be different...)
what consitutes a failure to really take step 3?
If you find yourself listening to intellectual BS theories on the tolerance of using light bulbs as a higher power, you'd be in trouble.
Thats an indication of failure to surrender, its change without change.
The Book is explicit about the nature of God, One who has all power, infinite power and love are 2 quotes, theres no room for an insane alcoholic mind to twist that into a light bulb. I did try a tree HP for a while, that didn't work out too well.
I used to say ( to anyone stupid enough to listen) your HP can be anything, even a tree. Thats not what the Book says.
My experience is when I wanted to argue with the top of page 59 I had some more drinking to do til I became convinced.
My 3rd step didn't entail any deep understanding, rather it was just admitting I didn't know squat but I WAS willing to see where it would lead me.
Its not easy surrendering to something I cannot fathom.
It wasn't easy to leap without knowing where I was going to land.
And I never did anything til it hurt enough to get out of my own way.
Thats what happened.
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