Got scared tonight!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 139
Got scared tonight!
On Boxing Day I was quite upset that I hadn't seen my family for Christmas yet. I'm 33 and every single year prior I've seen my mom/sister/brother on Xmas Day. This year we're all in different cities, plans just didn't mesh. So we decided that New years eve would be a great time, so I went ahead and made the plans! Text my ABF later and ask if he wants to come along. He says no. He kept saying he just wanted to be alone on New years, and for me to go and have fun. I said "Ok!"
Later on in the night he texts back that he wants our son to be with him on New Years. I told him I had already made plans! He said he wanted to see our son, I told him no, my family wants to see him to give him gifts. ABF and I spent Xmas eve, xmas day and boxing day with our son, as well as on boxing day we had his (ABF) family over to his apartment for a gathering.
Tonight, as usual, ABF and were texting. Starts off boring and random "WHat are you doing" "Reading" "Oh, reading what?" etc.
I go out and it I come home to two texts asking "Where are you" I replied that I had gone out but forgot my phone at home.
His reply was basically that I was irresponsible in going out in the winter, and driving around with the kids with no phone.
I let that roll off of my back.
Later on he picks a fight, saying that I'm "playing games". I ask for an example and he doesn't give me one, says he doesn't remember the bad stuff, only good.
I asked again for an example so I know what I was being accused of.
He said "You ask a lot of questions, here's an answer for you: I'm going to Georgia tomorrow"
(We live in Ontario Canada)
I asked what for? He said it was on the way to Florida. I asked him why he was going there. He said it's where he feels like he is liked.
I asked if his Grandfather lived there, and said "it doesn't matter. I want my son to go with me. The heat will do him some good"
I reminded him, that I had plans with our son already (our son is 2 by the way) and that my family wants to see him.
He replies "I suppose I am trying to make a point. It is not all your decision where he goes. You had him christmas morning. What makes it ok for you to make these decisions??"
To make a long story short, he kept saying it was not for me to decide where our son goes. He said that he had him boxing day and he wants to see him again. (I guess he forgets about xmas eve, xmas day and I was there as well on boxing day)
My heart started racing, and I had images of him showing up at my door tomorrow asking to take our son. Of me calling police and not letting him in because I want my son to see my family. Of me leaving WAY earlier in the morning than I anticipated to avoid him coming over here.
I got scared, and I've felt that way in the past where he's concerned and I did NOT like feeling that again.
That's not a normal relationship!
Who does he think he is!!??
Then he starts saying "
Thank you, that is all I needed. I will reiterate; I was the lucky recipient of my son on boxing day because your family could not make a decision, which in turn, cause you to suffer depression and be anti-social. Would you say this is accurate?"
(I was upset that I hadnt seen them yet, but when his family came over I sat with them and we all talked, I was not anti-social)
Then he says "Just agree with what I said or simply say you don't agree which would be lying. You choose" and "Make it easy on yourself, just do it."
I asked him what he was doing and he replied "The process, don't worry about it."
I said Don't worry about what!? he replied "All this! Just admit what I asked you to and this will all go away....like a bad dream."
I am dumbfounded! Like....WTF!
We exchanged more words, nothing pleasant but nothing terribly bad.
I told him that I had been very scared about him taking our son and said "No. You are not. You know I would never do that. Don't worry! You won't have to see me for a long long time."
ARGH
He makes me feel like I'm INSANE!
Later on in the night he texts back that he wants our son to be with him on New Years. I told him I had already made plans! He said he wanted to see our son, I told him no, my family wants to see him to give him gifts. ABF and I spent Xmas eve, xmas day and boxing day with our son, as well as on boxing day we had his (ABF) family over to his apartment for a gathering.
Tonight, as usual, ABF and were texting. Starts off boring and random "WHat are you doing" "Reading" "Oh, reading what?" etc.
I go out and it I come home to two texts asking "Where are you" I replied that I had gone out but forgot my phone at home.
His reply was basically that I was irresponsible in going out in the winter, and driving around with the kids with no phone.
I let that roll off of my back.
Later on he picks a fight, saying that I'm "playing games". I ask for an example and he doesn't give me one, says he doesn't remember the bad stuff, only good.
I asked again for an example so I know what I was being accused of.
He said "You ask a lot of questions, here's an answer for you: I'm going to Georgia tomorrow"
(We live in Ontario Canada)
I asked what for? He said it was on the way to Florida. I asked him why he was going there. He said it's where he feels like he is liked.
I asked if his Grandfather lived there, and said "it doesn't matter. I want my son to go with me. The heat will do him some good"
I reminded him, that I had plans with our son already (our son is 2 by the way) and that my family wants to see him.
He replies "I suppose I am trying to make a point. It is not all your decision where he goes. You had him christmas morning. What makes it ok for you to make these decisions??"
To make a long story short, he kept saying it was not for me to decide where our son goes. He said that he had him boxing day and he wants to see him again. (I guess he forgets about xmas eve, xmas day and I was there as well on boxing day)
My heart started racing, and I had images of him showing up at my door tomorrow asking to take our son. Of me calling police and not letting him in because I want my son to see my family. Of me leaving WAY earlier in the morning than I anticipated to avoid him coming over here.
I got scared, and I've felt that way in the past where he's concerned and I did NOT like feeling that again.
That's not a normal relationship!
Who does he think he is!!??
Then he starts saying "
Thank you, that is all I needed. I will reiterate; I was the lucky recipient of my son on boxing day because your family could not make a decision, which in turn, cause you to suffer depression and be anti-social. Would you say this is accurate?"
(I was upset that I hadnt seen them yet, but when his family came over I sat with them and we all talked, I was not anti-social)
Then he says "Just agree with what I said or simply say you don't agree which would be lying. You choose" and "Make it easy on yourself, just do it."
I asked him what he was doing and he replied "The process, don't worry about it."
I said Don't worry about what!? he replied "All this! Just admit what I asked you to and this will all go away....like a bad dream."
I am dumbfounded! Like....WTF!
We exchanged more words, nothing pleasant but nothing terribly bad.
I told him that I had been very scared about him taking our son and said "No. You are not. You know I would never do that. Don't worry! You won't have to see me for a long long time."
ARGH
He makes me feel like I'm INSANE!
Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Missouri
Posts: 673
Sweetie, I'm so sorry, but this is what alcoholics DO... they make us feel insane. (I suppose I should say; we let them make us feel insane, but I'm not quite there yet.) They twist words, they manipulate conversations, and life in general in an attempt to make it look good for them, and put the blame on us.
May I ask why you didn't remind him of the time you all spent together? "ABF and I spent Xmas eve, xmas day and boxing day with our son, as well as on boxing day we had his (ABF) family over to his apartment for a gathering. " Perhaps you did, and I missed it.
The threat about not seeing for a long long time? Don't get sucked into that one. You don't leave something hanging like that for anything other than manipulation.
With both my AH's, I was driven almost to the point of insanity. With the first, I didn't know why. With the 2nd, I knew it was the alcoholism. It's truly incredible how A's read from the same script. I just wish I'd realized my 2nd AH was an alcoholic before I married him. I'm a little slow, but have finally learned my lesson.
Hey... if I were you, I'd be scared from the things that he said that he might run off with your son, too. Take your son with you. I'll bet when you get back you'll find ABF was just blowing hot air.
Go, have fun. Let us know about it when you get back. Hugs for a fun and safe time!
-Tigg
May I ask why you didn't remind him of the time you all spent together? "ABF and I spent Xmas eve, xmas day and boxing day with our son, as well as on boxing day we had his (ABF) family over to his apartment for a gathering. " Perhaps you did, and I missed it.
The threat about not seeing for a long long time? Don't get sucked into that one. You don't leave something hanging like that for anything other than manipulation.
With both my AH's, I was driven almost to the point of insanity. With the first, I didn't know why. With the 2nd, I knew it was the alcoholism. It's truly incredible how A's read from the same script. I just wish I'd realized my 2nd AH was an alcoholic before I married him. I'm a little slow, but have finally learned my lesson.
Hey... if I were you, I'd be scared from the things that he said that he might run off with your son, too. Take your son with you. I'll bet when you get back you'll find ABF was just blowing hot air.
Go, have fun. Let us know about it when you get back. Hugs for a fun and safe time!
-Tigg
Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,149
the non-sequiters, the false evidence, the misrepresentations, the swift changes in directions, the lies, the half-statements and innuendo of my crimes, the false attribution of events, feelings and words to me, the casting of him as the victim of my insanity and aggression...
I have had the conversation you were having, (the subject matter was different each time, but I can't emphasis enough that the content really doesn't matter it's the intention that is important and the conversation's effects on you that are the point of this, the content will be changed on the hoof in order to bring that about).
I was left (each time) sobbing, enraged, confused, reeling, questioning my sanity, questioning my memory and my social skills and worth as a human being. He was left (each time) apparently feeling better, superior, justified.
I would have to go away and deconstruct it, obsess, try and understand, I found it fed straight into my social anxiety and depression.
I now know that for my own sanity I have to avoid this conversation, head it off before it starts. That means that I have to minimise the chit-chat with AstbxH as this can slide into the above conversation.
If he starts a conversation off angry or any of the other known start points, I put the phone down or walk out no matter what he says to try and reel me in to engage. I picture myself as a swan with water sliding off of me, or with silver skin that cannot be penetrated by barbed words.
Him I see as an animal caught in a trap, that will squirm and writhe in pain spitting and clawing at thse who would help and release him, twisting and turning and lashing out. It is not about me, none of his words are and whilst I focus on the content I feed the monster in both of us. I have seen him do the same to others, his mother in particular and was left speechless by his ability to grasp at weak points and about turn, and lie in an onslaught in order to be the victor (and come off as the victim).
disengage. don't explain, he won't hear, he isn't after the truth, or explanations, he won't hear when you tell the truth, because that isn't the point of the conversation. the point is to make him feel better by making you the villain.
don't feed the monster.
I have had the conversation you were having, (the subject matter was different each time, but I can't emphasis enough that the content really doesn't matter it's the intention that is important and the conversation's effects on you that are the point of this, the content will be changed on the hoof in order to bring that about).
I was left (each time) sobbing, enraged, confused, reeling, questioning my sanity, questioning my memory and my social skills and worth as a human being. He was left (each time) apparently feeling better, superior, justified.
I would have to go away and deconstruct it, obsess, try and understand, I found it fed straight into my social anxiety and depression.
I now know that for my own sanity I have to avoid this conversation, head it off before it starts. That means that I have to minimise the chit-chat with AstbxH as this can slide into the above conversation.
If he starts a conversation off angry or any of the other known start points, I put the phone down or walk out no matter what he says to try and reel me in to engage. I picture myself as a swan with water sliding off of me, or with silver skin that cannot be penetrated by barbed words.
Him I see as an animal caught in a trap, that will squirm and writhe in pain spitting and clawing at thse who would help and release him, twisting and turning and lashing out. It is not about me, none of his words are and whilst I focus on the content I feed the monster in both of us. I have seen him do the same to others, his mother in particular and was left speechless by his ability to grasp at weak points and about turn, and lie in an onslaught in order to be the victor (and come off as the victim).
disengage. don't explain, he won't hear, he isn't after the truth, or explanations, he won't hear when you tell the truth, because that isn't the point of the conversation. the point is to make him feel better by making you the villain.
don't feed the monster.
Recovering Codependant
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Liverpool, Great Britain
Posts: 1,335
I'd have to say this is what a verbal abuser does.
He is twisting your words and turning tables on you, your conversation starts off fine and ends with you feeling as though you have lost your mind.
That is not an alcoholic, there are many alcoholics who are not abusive. This is abuse.
Have you got hold of a copy of Lundy Bancroft 'Why does he do that? - Inside the minds of angry and controlling men' yet?
Elsie I really hope you get a hold of this book and read it, it will be in your library if you can't afford a new one, or else get it second hand. I just know in the pit of my stomach that you will find your abf in its pages and you will be empowered to deal with him.
Lily xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
He is twisting your words and turning tables on you, your conversation starts off fine and ends with you feeling as though you have lost your mind.
That is not an alcoholic, there are many alcoholics who are not abusive. This is abuse.
Have you got hold of a copy of Lundy Bancroft 'Why does he do that? - Inside the minds of angry and controlling men' yet?
Elsie I really hope you get a hold of this book and read it, it will be in your library if you can't afford a new one, or else get it second hand. I just know in the pit of my stomach that you will find your abf in its pages and you will be empowered to deal with him.
Lily xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Curled up in a good book...
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 1,542
STBXAH acted like this a lot. Be very careful. I started detaching, changing how I reacted, not letting what he said look as if it messed with my head. In my case, STBXAH was an abuser and detaching meant the abuse increased as his control and hold over me slipped. Things got pretty hairy for a while before he left! Have a read of this sticky: http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ening-you.html Take care of you and know you are not going insane!
miyah
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Montana
Posts: 70
Elsie,
Do be careful! I have had the same insane conversations with XBF. Many, many words and actions to add to my WTF file.
I too felt like he was trying to make me crazy and it was working.
He would, like yours, accuse me of whatever, then when I asked for an example, he would tell me that he does not live in the past and that he had let go of past situations. How very noble of him to let go of the non-existant!
It all escalated into a scary situation him in jail, me frightened.
Three months ago I never thought he would be physically violent. He even threatened to call 911 and tell them that I punched him!
Do be careful! I have had the same insane conversations with XBF. Many, many words and actions to add to my WTF file.
I too felt like he was trying to make me crazy and it was working.
He would, like yours, accuse me of whatever, then when I asked for an example, he would tell me that he does not live in the past and that he had let go of past situations. How very noble of him to let go of the non-existant!
It all escalated into a scary situation him in jail, me frightened.
Three months ago I never thought he would be physically violent. He even threatened to call 911 and tell them that I punched him!
RIP Sweet Suki
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: In my sanctuary, my home
Posts: 39,913
You are not married to this man and your son is in your possession. You DO get to decide where your son goes and my advice is to NOT give into your ex-boyfriend's demands. He sounds like the type who would run off with your son just to cause you grief. At that point, you would have one hell of a time getting your son back.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: rural west
Posts: 1,375
Originally Posted by JenT1968 
the non-sequiters, the false evidence, the misrepresentations, the swift changes in directions, the lies, the half-statements and innuendo of my crimes, the false attribution of events, feelings and words to me, the casting of him as the victim of my insanity and aggression...
I have had the conversation you were having, (the subject matter was different each time, but I can't emphasis enough that the content really doesn't matter it's the intention that is important and the conversation's effects on you that are the point of this, the content will be changed on the hoof in order to bring that about).
I was left (each time) sobbing, enraged, confused, reeling, questioning my sanity, questioning my memory and my social skills and worth as a human being. He was left (each time) apparently feeling better, superior, justified.
I would have to go away and deconstruct it, obsess, try and understand, I found it fed straight into my social anxiety and depression.
I now know that for my own sanity I have to avoid this conversation, head it off before it starts. That means that I have to minimise the chit-chat with AstbxH as this can slide into the above conversation.
If he starts a conversation off angry or any of the other known start points, I put the phone down or walk out no matter what he says to try and reel me in to engage. I picture myself as a swan with water sliding off of me, or with silver skin that cannot be penetrated by barbed words.
Him I see as an animal caught in a trap, that will squirm and writhe in pain spitting and clawing at thse who would help and release him, twisting and turning and lashing out. It is not about me, none of his words are and whilst I focus on the content I feed the monster in both of us. I have seen him do the same to others, his mother in particular and was left speechless by his ability to grasp at weak points and about turn, and lie in an onslaught in order to be the victor (and come off as the victim).
disengage. don't explain, he won't hear, he isn't after the truth, or explanations, he won't hear when you tell the truth, because that isn't the point of the conversation. the point is to make him feel better by making you the villain.
don't feed the monster.
I have had the conversation you were having, (the subject matter was different each time, but I can't emphasis enough that the content really doesn't matter it's the intention that is important and the conversation's effects on you that are the point of this, the content will be changed on the hoof in order to bring that about).
I was left (each time) sobbing, enraged, confused, reeling, questioning my sanity, questioning my memory and my social skills and worth as a human being. He was left (each time) apparently feeling better, superior, justified.
I would have to go away and deconstruct it, obsess, try and understand, I found it fed straight into my social anxiety and depression.
I now know that for my own sanity I have to avoid this conversation, head it off before it starts. That means that I have to minimise the chit-chat with AstbxH as this can slide into the above conversation.
If he starts a conversation off angry or any of the other known start points, I put the phone down or walk out no matter what he says to try and reel me in to engage. I picture myself as a swan with water sliding off of me, or with silver skin that cannot be penetrated by barbed words.
Him I see as an animal caught in a trap, that will squirm and writhe in pain spitting and clawing at thse who would help and release him, twisting and turning and lashing out. It is not about me, none of his words are and whilst I focus on the content I feed the monster in both of us. I have seen him do the same to others, his mother in particular and was left speechless by his ability to grasp at weak points and about turn, and lie in an onslaught in order to be the victor (and come off as the victim).
disengage. don't explain, he won't hear, he isn't after the truth, or explanations, he won't hear when you tell the truth, because that isn't the point of the conversation. the point is to make him feel better by making you the villain.
don't feed the monster.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 65
This is so eye-opening to me. I am a reasonably intelligent person who communicates well...it seems most conversations I am speaking a foreign language, the defensiveness is unbelievable, the words get twisted and one can only take so much...then I am fully engaged...it is horrible. I have been making a concerted effort over the last month to not engage...it has been better while I work on my preparations to leave. I sill feel it is intentional on his part and demonstrates how crappy he feels about himself. Even when he is not drinking!
Not that I haven't fallen into the trap a few times...I so thank HP for having found this place...I find my feelings diffuse so much faster having a place to read or express my frustration.
Blessings to all of you for the new year.
Not that I haven't fallen into the trap a few times...I so thank HP for having found this place...I find my feelings diffuse so much faster having a place to read or express my frustration.
Blessings to all of you for the new year.
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