Daisy30

I could feel it slipping away for the past few weeks. I tried desperately to grasp on to it...and then poof the last bits of it were gone.

I really need everyones ESH right now. I am writing this through tears.

Let me recap a little AH and I have been seperated for almost a year. AH is still active in his disease. I have filed for divorce and legal seperation.

While having a conversation on the phone today with AH he mentioned his brother would really like to sit down and talk with us both. I replied, If your brother wants to talk with me then it is okay if he calls me.

About 15 minutes after AH and I get off the phone BIL calls me. I haven't spoken to him since before we seperated. We end up having a conversation where I feel like I am defending myself against lies the AH has told. It was utterly ridiculous, and yet I was left feeling so hurt and sad. I know part of it was "my worst fears were being realized" right there in my face.

The whole time I was wishing for my serenity back. When I knew how to answer these questions with calmness and ease.

One thing that keeps sticking in my head is he (BIL) asked me, "didn't you say that an addict needs to reach a bottom before they will get help."
I said "yes".
He said, " Don't you think he's reached his bottom? He has lost his family, he might be loosing is job and he may go to jail."
I said "no". When he reaches his bottom he will change/get help
He said, "the only other thing left for him is to death. Would you help him if he were going to kill himself."
I said, " I can't help him. If someone is truely going to kill themselves I can't stop it".
He (BIL) said he may know more about addiction than me and that my thoughts about this are off.

Ugh I feel so beat down.

I know that I can't change BIL mind, I know it is not my job too. I know it is none of my business what anyone else thinks of me.

I just need to get my head together, BIL said he was going to call me later this weekend to finish our conversation. I am hoping I can be more calm and understanding. Yes, I am going to my meeting tomorrow I would call my sponsor but it is kinda late for her.

Thanks for listening

blessed4x

You know, you don't HAVE to finish the conversation. You can decide that the conversation is finished. I had so many people in my life that just didn't understand. I found strength here and at my meetings and at counseling.

I finally learned that when I did start feeling defensive and like I had to justify my actions it was time to end the conversation. I would say to the person...."If I came to you bloody and bruised and beaten would you be telling me I need to meet him halfway (or that I'm being stubborn, or whatever it was they were telling me)". Always, without exception, they would say "of course not". I would let them know that I WAS beaten, bloody and bruised emotionally and it was no different. End of conversation.

((((hugs)))) Keep on taking care of you, the one and only, fabulous, worthy of all the love the world has to offer, you.

bookwyrm

(((hugs)))

Your post reminds me why going No Contact is so important to me and how hard it must be for those of us with kids...

suki44883

You know, you don't HAVE to finish the conversation. You can decide that the conversation is finished.

Perfect!

tjp613

What is BIL trying to accomplish here? He wants you to "help" him HOW? Besides, you ARE helping him!! You are helping him by NOT enabling him and by allowing him to hit bottom. Some people never do except in death, and many more have to fall a lot farther than your AH has fallen.

I agree that you don't need to "finish" the conversation. Remember that he is a grown man with a brain. He has the information he needs to help himself. You aren't his caretaker, you never were. You are an autonomous human being that is entitled to the pursuit of happiness and fulfillment.

I know it's hard but you need to be OK that many people are just ignorant of the issues. I am a mother who had to kick her 19 year old son out of the house w/ no money, no job, no food, etc.... my friends kind of went pale and bit their tongues hard when they found out. Can you imagine the thoughts that ran thru their heads? To them I'm sure I looked like a cold-hearted b*tch and a worthless mother. I was following the advice of every professional counselor and experienced member of SR. Not everyone is going to understand but I don't have to explain my actions or decisions to anyone except his father. All I have to do is the best I can for my son....and that meant I had to kick him out. Yeah, that was tough. And yeah, I'm sure I looked pretty bad to some. I don't care.

Kindeyes

More than anything right now you need gentle hugs and support.

There is no doubt that BIL believes with his whole heart that he is "helping". You aren't going to change his mind about that.

You'll get your serenity back.....why? Because you want to. This is just a temporary set back. I do that sometimes. When I misplace my serenity, it helps me realize how much I want it and I do what it takes to get it back.

gentle hugs

Pelican

I'm sorry Daisy (((hugs)))

I was rolling along with my seperation and divorce process when I got blindsided by a conversation from a well meaning family friend. That person is now a well meaning ex friend. They were forcing their views and values onto me and trying to make me accept their reality. I did let it get to me and felt myself starting to react to the conversation instead of responding with peacefulness. It was a bad day. But I did learn from the experience. I do not have to subject myself to another person's viewpoints and values to relieve their concience. I am not their therapist or doormat.

"What other people think of me is none of my business" CatsPajamas (SR Moderator)

Daisy,
Your decision to end your marital relationship with an active alcoholic was a difficult, personal decision. I have seen you take your time and weigh all your options before arriving at this decision. You are doing what is healthy for you at this time in your life. You have my respect and support during this time of transition.
Peace and love to you!

Daisy30

Thank you all, I always get just what I need here

I will comment more when I get time....I have to run off to a meeting now

You all are a blessing to me!

coyote21

Yes, yes, yes, and yes.

Seriously, this is one of the most important things I have learned in this journey. It has saved me numerous pointless conversations and sleepless nights.

As a codie, what others thought of me WAS of paramount importance....not anymore.

My serenity is of the utmost importance to me, it is like air. It allows me the calm and clarity to make good decisions for myself and LMC.

Your's will return soon, "this too shall pass".

Thanks and God bless us all,
Coyote

NewMe11109

The BIL does not know more about alcoholism/addiction than you if he is putting any blame on you for the situation. He may be good intentioned, but I would just ask him politely to pick up a big book and do some reading. Sorry you are going through this. Stay strong.

... the courage to accept the things we cannot change ...

transformyself

Word.

transformyself

ps-
It's sort of fascinating to me that other see your BIL as wanting to help. I'd call him a controlling jerk who is trying to manipulate and guilt trip you. In fact, I'd call hm up and tell him that and tell him to get some help and leave you alone.

But I'm in angry mode right now...

Daisy30

My meeting really helped! I am so blessed to have such a supportive al-anon group. To have a safe place like SR and al-anon where I can cry, be honest about myself and my struggles. To have people who can relate on a personal level to my experiences.

I am feeling a lot better and I am able to get some of my thoughts together.

I really loved what everyone here had to say. You all spoke right to me.

Isn't it funny how quickly I can be right back at step one. I am powerless. I cannot control how others view things, nor is it my job to make them see things my way.

I just need to keep turnig it over, again and again.


Your support means so much to me

Learn2Live

Yes ma'am, keep turnin' it over please. Now please look at how I have chopped up and highlighted your post:

I am so glad you got yourself to a meeting and that you are feeling much better now. You are doing excellent!!!!! But please think about the following: (Please note I use ALLCAPS for emphasis only -- I am not yelling. I hope this is not offensive. I apologize if it is).

1. Do you see from my cutting and pasting and bolding and underlining, whose needs were SERVED by your conversing with Bil?

2. And do you see from my cutting and pasting and italicizing, whose needs were HARMED by your conversing with Bil?

3. Do you see from my cutting and pasting and italicizing, how your thoughts before the meeting were centered around trying to continue to relate with Bil and protect yourself?

4. Do you see that your thoughts show that you still want to continue to honor and fulfill someone else's needs?

Lastly,
5. Do you see that you have in a healthy manner admitted you are powerless and that you cannot control others, but that you have taken it one (unhealthy) step further and given up on the idea that you can control ANYTHING?

Here's something you can work on: Take back your power over YOURSELF, YOUR life, and YOUR decisions. You are NOT POWERLESS over YOU. You are powerless over alcohol and the alcoholic. You are powerless over the disease. You are 100% right: You cannot control what others think or do. BUT you CAN control what YOU think and do.

Do not answer the phone when this person calls. You owe him NO explanation as to why you do not answer the phone. It is plain and simple: He is calling you to get HIS needs met. CHOOSE YOU!!! Choose YOUR NEEDS.

P.S. No, it is not funny how quickly this man and this man's brother can PUT YOU RIGHT BACK AT STEP ONE. Nor is it strange, unusual or silly. It is SICK. Stay away from them please.

Bernadette

Y'know Daisy - it is one of the symptoms of the "family disease" of alcoholism that everyone wants to find someone or something to blame. I know I did it for years - I blamed my parent's not creating a healthy environment for us when we grew up, I blamed my father for being an alcoholic and not teaching his sons to NOT follow in his footsteps, I blamed any and all suffering or misfortune that my brothers had suffered for why they drank...when a gal broke their heart and they got wasted - well it was the gal's fault etc.

All the while I had a kind of sick feeling in my stomach - knowing on some level but denying that the whole problem rests squarely on them! But the addict is so adept at deflecting blame and pointing fingers all around them and gaining sympathy because they are pathetic and sad and profess to need our help with such truth in their eyes.

Naturally this kept me in a state of attachment to them and their situation - because it implies that maybe there is a way to "help" or control these outward influences etc...to get to the bottom of it and fix it.

So your BIL is just in a different phase of the codie disease...he still thinks that some kind of soft place for your exH or some other external factor might turn things around, and if he could just make that happen it would make all the difference...

But your answer was right on- if exH had hit bottom he would have changed. It is simply not up to us to decide they have hit bottom and then what? Take them back in without a single shred of evidence of actual behavioral change???

I mean go ahead BIL and you start "helping" exH! Start banging your own head against that wall! Seems that's how we finally learn the truth. Maybe he should go to AlAnon too! But we can control none of that either.....

Glad you are feeling better- an emotional punch like that can really make your head spin but you chose so well in going to a meeting!

peace-
b

pray4joy

Alcoholics are incapable of being honest with themselves or anyone else. They are in denial, unlikely to be accountable and blame - everything is always someone else's fault - consumate victims. WAH WAH WAH he went to your BIL...who either doesn't know how the EXAH really behaves or has had experience with him and doesn't want to get involved with caretaking him...or is also in denial.
Either way you owe nothing to BIL and conversations with him will only further to delay your own well being...if it were me I would avoid any second conversation since his motive is to get you back together it seems and since you have decided THAT AIN'T HAPPENING you likely have enough "ghosts" of your own whispering in your ear. I vote against his meddling.
Hugs and stay strong...D

Daisy30

you are so right B. I think if I would have been in a better place before the phone call, I would have been able to tell myself that. When I deal with AH's parents I always tell myself, they are not as far a long in their recovery as you.
At least for know I am back on the path to getting my serenity back... Working my program. I can't tell you how much just going to a meeting and getting so many hugs and words of support helped me. My group rocks!

LTL I think you may have misunderstood me here. I meant I was powerless over BIL. You know that whole control thing us codies like to do ....lol