I know it's an illness, but I'm so tired of dealing with it
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 100
I know it's an illness, but I'm so tired of dealing with it
My wife is an acoa. I go to alanon. I have tried for decades to deal with her. She constantly plays mind games. She has all the behavior of an alcoholic except for the drinking. I am so tired of this mess.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Anywhere but the mainstream.
Posts: 402
Welcome husbandofacoa! Hopefully this corner of SR will be of some use to you 
When I started seeing my current partner, and even though I knew he was healthy for me, I still engaged in the behaviors I had learned from my parents. I would try to manipulate him, and didn't even realize what I was doing because I thought what I was doing was normal. I was very fortunate that my partner would call on my BS. I was in the process of separating from the alcoholics in my family, so it really helped me identify where some of the damage still lingered.
What made the key change for me was counselling. When I first started seeing my counsellor it was on something that seemed unrelated at the time. But because I was ready to let go of my denial about my family, I was able to progress both as a person and as a partner in a relationship.
Does your wife admit that there are some things that could be better? Does she acknowledge what damage her family or origin may have caused?
When I started seeing my current partner, and even though I knew he was healthy for me, I still engaged in the behaviors I had learned from my parents. I would try to manipulate him, and didn't even realize what I was doing because I thought what I was doing was normal. I was very fortunate that my partner would call on my BS. I was in the process of separating from the alcoholics in my family, so it really helped me identify where some of the damage still lingered.
What made the key change for me was counselling. When I first started seeing my counsellor it was on something that seemed unrelated at the time. But because I was ready to let go of my denial about my family, I was able to progress both as a person and as a partner in a relationship.
Does your wife admit that there are some things that could be better? Does she acknowledge what damage her family or origin may have caused?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 100
Thanks for your perspective.
No she doesn't really admit the problem. She won't go to counciling. She went with me for approx 5 visits. She spent most of the time trashing me and trying to win the counciler over to her side. I realized after a couple of visits that the counciler sees this kind of behavior all the time. In the last meeting he started to work the conversation to her and her background. That was it and she never would go back.
I continue in my program (alanon). It does indeed help to call her hand and not stand for the BS. She is not going to change until she hits bottom and it is obvious to me that her bottom is way, way farther down that mine was.
I would like for this to work because we have children, but I am sick and tired of the games and the dishonesty.
Again, thanks for your response. It gives me hope.
No she doesn't really admit the problem. She won't go to counciling. She went with me for approx 5 visits. She spent most of the time trashing me and trying to win the counciler over to her side. I realized after a couple of visits that the counciler sees this kind of behavior all the time. In the last meeting he started to work the conversation to her and her background. That was it and she never would go back.
I continue in my program (alanon). It does indeed help to call her hand and not stand for the BS. She is not going to change until she hits bottom and it is obvious to me that her bottom is way, way farther down that mine was.
I would like for this to work because we have children, but I am sick and tired of the games and the dishonesty.
Again, thanks for your response. It gives me hope.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 87
Originally Posted by husbandofacoa 
Thanks for your perspective.
No she doesn't really admit the problem. She won't go to counciling. She went with me for approx 5 visits. She spent most of the time trashing me and trying to win the counciler over to her side. I realized after a couple of visits that the counciler sees this kind of behavior all the time. In the last meeting he started to work the conversation to her and her background. That was it and she never would go back.
I continue in my program (alanon). It does indeed help to call her hand and not stand for the BS. She is not going to change until she hits bottom and it is obvious to me that her bottom is way, way farther down that mine was.
I would like for this to work because we have children, but I am sick and tired of the games and the dishonesty.
Again, thanks for your response. It gives me hope.
No she doesn't really admit the problem. She won't go to counciling. She went with me for approx 5 visits. She spent most of the time trashing me and trying to win the counciler over to her side. I realized after a couple of visits that the counciler sees this kind of behavior all the time. In the last meeting he started to work the conversation to her and her background. That was it and she never would go back.
I continue in my program (alanon). It does indeed help to call her hand and not stand for the BS. She is not going to change until she hits bottom and it is obvious to me that her bottom is way, way farther down that mine was.
I would like for this to work because we have children, but I am sick and tired of the games and the dishonesty.
Again, thanks for your response. It gives me hope.
Thank you for sharing part of your story. I can understand your agony and frustration and I imagine, emotional exhaustion. My husband is the husband of an acoa (me). I have not had issues of lying to my husband--given the fact that we value honesty...however I do struggle with other things that I tend to minimilize. I often don't consider his feelings about how I behave or act and have a hard time letting him in. I'm often on the defense in our marriage and this has caused a lot of problems in our marriage and has hurt my husband deeply. Unfortunately, the abuse I suffered from a young child until early adulthood is deeply rooted within me and I tend to treat people who love me as if they are a criminal. I'm constantly on the defense...constantly anticipating the moment when I will be proved right---which means that all of my fears have come true--that my husband is a liar, abuser, controller, etc. However, luckily, my husband isn't any of those things...but i tend to treat him as such. Sometimes I literally see my step-father standing before me when in reality its my husband.
Unlike me, my biological (acoa) sister has a tendency to lie and manipulate things constantly--even over extremely small things when there is no point in doing so. She even went as far as lying to me about something my husband said. For some reason, some acoa's believe that lying is a necessary part of life--that people won't love them if they are truthful...and it keeps them in hiding and hides the hurt and pain away so they don't have to deal with it. because of her lying, I have made the choice to step away from my relationship with her (initially she disowned me b/c I confronted her on her lying and told her I wouldn't tolerate it--she hated that) for the safety of myself and my families well-being. My children don't need their auntie lying about them and my husband doesn't need his sister-in-law doing that to him.
In regards to my husband--he has had to threaten divorce to me on several occassions before I ever started to see the harm in my behaviors. I was constantly destroying our relationship. In some ways i still have trouble to this day...just relaxing, living life, trusting him as a wife should, etc. I'm always anticipating the next betrayal and any flaw he has---I'm ready to say--TOLD U SO! It's crazy-making and it's not getting me anywhere. I'm not living in the reality of what is...i'm perceiving imagined threats constantly. I have a hard time being vulnerable and relaxed and allowing someone to love me.
Anyway...have u thought about threatening with separation and saying something like...I love you, but I can't take this anymore...Either you start acknowledging how u are hurting others around u, get help for this, or I'm leaving...I'll start looking for my own place to live. Not sure that would work, but it might bring sanity to your world. You may even be surprised that she does think about it and try to change. Just a thought...I have no clue what avenues you've already ventured. I just know that people don't deserve to put up with lying and they do have the right not to tolerate abuse--b/c that is what it is turning into.
Anyways, good luck with you and I hope that things get better for you. :praying
Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 87
Originally Posted by husbandofacoa
I realized after a couple of visits that the counciler sees this kind of behavior all the time. In the last meeting he started to work the conversation to her and her background. That was it and she never would go back.
Needless to say...when the counselor started shifting the focus onto her and she couldn't take it--that's when progress normally starts occuring. It is obvious that she doesn't want to be vulnerable and constantly tries to keep the focus on everyone else so that 1. no one recognizes her lies and insecurities and 2. so that no one can see her pain and point it out to her 3. she can avoid accountability for her actions 4. so that she herself doesn't have to face her own pain and reality. It sounds like she may have been afraid to break down and show weakness, failure, and hurt. If she is anything like my sister, she tries to appear to be strong to everyone and is a master at convincing the world as such--when in reality that is anything but the truth.
One thing I always noticed about my sister is that she has a really hard time making eye contact for a long period of time with people without giving body signals of being uncomfortable (smiling, awkwardness, trying to divert others attention, etc. to hide her insecure thoughts). I noticed that I also avoid eye contact with people b/c I fear having a deep connection with others. I fear being open to give and receive love freely. It's like i feel like a stifled crab who's been in hiding for years and only pokes it's head out once in a while with only a hard shell to display to others-pinching if believing it to be necessary--saying go away. Love doesn't belong here and I don't know how to accept it.
Coming to this realization alone has been tremendously difficult and painful. I am scared to death to allow someone to love me b/c that means allowing them to betray me. I once read a quote: Love is giving your husband the ability to destroy you, but trusting him not to. This has been paramount in my life and very difficult for me to do, but so natural for others who haven't grown up in abusive homes.
I want my husband to feel dignified, loved, and happy with the woman he is with. I want him to be able to tell others about how lucky he thinks he is the he is with me. However, i now realize that will never happen if I am constantly pushing him away and antagonizing his every attempt to love me. I am exhausted and he is hopelessly exhausted. So, it's time to turn a new leaf in my life. Now that I am choosing to let my AM go...turning my focus away from her (which kept me ensnared in bad patterns and kept me stagnant in moving forward..kept me in denial of my true feelings..and kept me from addressing my problems with intimacy) I am able to focus on what matters most now: learning to love, to be free to love and give it without expecting it to be wasted on someone who is just going to throw it away. I realize that my husband keeps giving me his love and I keep throwing it in the garbage trash...resisting it over and over again. As long as I kept fixating on my mother and all of those problems w/ my family of origin, I would never have to face myself.
Anyways, good luck to you again. My apologies for rambling, but it sort of helped me put my new revelations into perspective as well. Take care.
Last edited by reverse; 11-02-2009 at 01:36 AM.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 2,126
"...She has all the behavior of an alcoholic except for the drinking..."
I've stated this in a couple of other places here in these forums, but perhaps it needs to be here also.....alcohol/alcoholism does NOT cause behavior (specifically bad behavior). Alcoholics would love to put off all their bad behavior onto alcohol/alcoholism, but that would be a lie.
Alcoholism, or alcohol dependence, is characterized by long-term (a very subjective term) use of alcohol which, if withheld, results in withdrawal symptoms. Some of the behaviors (and note that most are 'drinking' behaviors) associated with alcoholism can be, but not limited to,.....: craving for alcohol; drinking alone; Being secretive about drinking; lying about alcohol use; hiding alcohol or empty bottles; unpredictable behavior when drinking; anxiety in situations where alcohol is not available; increasing amount of alcohol consumption; passing out from alcohol consumption; memory blackouts (from alcohol consumption); being late for meetings or important appointments; "forgetting" social obligations or family responsibilities (more than likely due to alcohol consumption); using alcohol in times of stress; engaging in risky behavior when drinking (for example, driving); drinking in the morning and at other unusual times; calling in "sick" frequently (frequently on Mondays); often looking and feeling bad; denying that alcohol is a problem; physical dependence on alcohol; exhibiting withdrawal symptoms if alcohol is withheld.....
NoelleR
I've stated this in a couple of other places here in these forums, but perhaps it needs to be here also.....alcohol/alcoholism does NOT cause behavior (specifically bad behavior). Alcoholics would love to put off all their bad behavior onto alcohol/alcoholism, but that would be a lie.
Alcoholism, or alcohol dependence, is characterized by long-term (a very subjective term) use of alcohol which, if withheld, results in withdrawal symptoms. Some of the behaviors (and note that most are 'drinking' behaviors) associated with alcoholism can be, but not limited to,.....: craving for alcohol; drinking alone; Being secretive about drinking; lying about alcohol use; hiding alcohol or empty bottles; unpredictable behavior when drinking; anxiety in situations where alcohol is not available; increasing amount of alcohol consumption; passing out from alcohol consumption; memory blackouts (from alcohol consumption); being late for meetings or important appointments; "forgetting" social obligations or family responsibilities (more than likely due to alcohol consumption); using alcohol in times of stress; engaging in risky behavior when drinking (for example, driving); drinking in the morning and at other unusual times; calling in "sick" frequently (frequently on Mondays); often looking and feeling bad; denying that alcohol is a problem; physical dependence on alcohol; exhibiting withdrawal symptoms if alcohol is withheld.....
NoelleR
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 100
Thanks to all of you who have responded. With all the pain that there is in the world, it is wonderful that there is loving fellowship among people who suffer from the family disease of addiction.
As I stated in my earlier post, I have been in Alanon for 5 years. It has changed my life. I ignore my wife's games for the most part. I call her hand when she starts to play them. However, I am truly grieving the loss of the relationship that I wanted to have. I am beginning to realize that I can have my own peace and ignore my relationship with my wife, or I can stay angry about the lack of a relationship that we have. What I can't have is for my wife to be the person that I want her to be.
She is never going to put any effort in our marriage. She will never fix herself up. She will never be a person that I can trust to include in business/social functions. I am always at risk if I take her to a church social (she doesn't go to Sunday School with me). I have to be prepared for a public attack. Although, since alanon and since stopping her games, much of this is better. I have learned that if she acts an ass, it is a reflection on her not me.
I have learned the hard way with my wife: say what you mean but mean what you say (and if possible, don't say it mean). In other words, if I am going to threaten divorce, I have to really mean it.
Again thank you all for your helpful words.
As I stated in my earlier post, I have been in Alanon for 5 years. It has changed my life. I ignore my wife's games for the most part. I call her hand when she starts to play them. However, I am truly grieving the loss of the relationship that I wanted to have. I am beginning to realize that I can have my own peace and ignore my relationship with my wife, or I can stay angry about the lack of a relationship that we have. What I can't have is for my wife to be the person that I want her to be.
She is never going to put any effort in our marriage. She will never fix herself up. She will never be a person that I can trust to include in business/social functions. I am always at risk if I take her to a church social (she doesn't go to Sunday School with me). I have to be prepared for a public attack. Although, since alanon and since stopping her games, much of this is better. I have learned that if she acts an ass, it is a reflection on her not me.
I have learned the hard way with my wife: say what you mean but mean what you say (and if possible, don't say it mean). In other words, if I am going to threaten divorce, I have to really mean it.
Again thank you all for your helpful words.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
