intheknow

I have heard this term on here alot.

Can someone explain what it means?

Pelican

Dry Drunk: a problem drinker who has stopped drinking but is not working any type of recovery program. The problem drinker will still exhibit behaviors associated with active drinking: manipulation, lying, blame, guilt, anger and depression.


As acloholism progresses, emotional maturity digresses or is stunted. The alcoholic (problem drinker) becomes immature in their behavior. They do not have mature coping skills to deal with relationships, work, finances and family.

Recovery programs teach life skills to cope with relationships, work, finances and family. Put a sober problem drinker into a program and you have a recovering alcoholic.

intheknow

Thank you!

RobinsFly

Does this definition have any weight in a court of law?

Would a judge really buy into someone's story that they stopped drinking and now they're "all good"?

just curious

Taking5

I do not believe this has a legal meaning. If a person has stopped drinking and can prove it, they are not likely to be in much trouble from a judge in terms of additional punitive actions.

However to say that they are "all better" is entirely different, a dry drunk is not all better.

Why would a judge be interested if they are "all better"? Is this a criminal, civil, or divorce case?

RobinsFly

Divorce case.

He stopped drinking but never did ANY kind of recovery work. Has massive anger issues and has extremely poor judgment re: care of our young kids.

I wish he was still drinking. Seems like it'd be easier to get some "proof".

needless to say, the kids need to be with me more and we'll probably end up in front of a judge to decide the parenting time.
Seems like, "he is an alcoholic" should hold some weight?? Or no.

Outvoid

I'm glad you brought this question up because I was going to start a thread on it myself...

Despite what Pelican said (no offense intended to him), the term "dry drunk" is often used in self-righteous, condescending way by AA members to describe those who have stopped drinking without working the program.

It doesn't neccessisarily mean that they have have all those symptoms that Pelican described.

I'm not trying to start a big controversy here, but the fact is, I have many times heard people in AA use the term "dry drunk" almost as a put-down. For example, I talking with some people after a meeting and mentioned that I have a friend who is also an alcoholic, but simply quit after going to therapy for several years.

A couple of people said, "Oh, a 'dry-drunk'."

I said, "No, he's not a 'drunk' of any kind. He simply quit drinking."

They said, "Did he go to AA?"

I said no.

They said, "Then he's a 'dry-drunk'."

I said, "You're certainly entited to believe what you want, but I don't think you have a right to foist some label on someone simply because they didn't work the program that we are working."

Personally, I find it very self-righteous when people use this term.

--Outvoid--

Taking5

So he stopped drinking. No AA or recovery program. Many in AA would consider him to not be alcoholic in this case. A heavy drinker, maybe, but not alcoholic.

I have no personal opinion on if he is alcoholic, but if he has stopped drinking that is a major plus for him. You are obviously looking for ammunition against him in a divorce/custody/visitation case. I highly recommend that you not call him a dry drunk, any lawyer worth a damn will tear you to shreds if he is indeed not drinking.

So you probably need to acknowledge the part that alcohol played in the divorce. Furthermore admit that while he is not currently drinking to your knowledge, he is also not in any program of recovery and talk about your fears of him relapsing while the children are in his care. All 100% true, and no accusations.

Ideally the judge will then ask your ex is he is working a program of recovery, and may even make visitation contingent upon this.

If he does relapse, document it any way you can, and haul his rear back to court, even if the judge didn't take the bait, so to speak, in ordering him into a recovery program.

Good luck.

mistycshore

There is nothing you can come up with that a judge hasn't heard a hundred times before. If it were me, I'd leave the religion of recovery out of it and focus on the facts. Whether or not he is a "dry" drunk (silly term if you ask me) or *working* a program of recovery are most likely, as they should be, non issues to a judge determining parenting time. If he has anger management issues (be prepared to prove it) that point would be more substantial.

Where I live, the court makes couples go through a mediator before they can get a hearing (because courts are so clogged with parents who'd rather squabble than find a solution). Do you have an attorney? If not, might be worth the money. If you are imagining a judge at a custody hearing listening to much in the way of one parent criticizing another, you will be disappointed. IME, most of them don't tolerate it.

Jadmack25

I don't really like the term dry drunk, but can't think of anything else that explains or describes some non-drinking alcoholics.

My ABF has gone thru home withdrawal more often than I can count, and stayed off the beer for periods from 2 days to 15 months, this over 20 years of hard binge drinking. This last period of sobriety has lasted since November last year, and this is the ONLY time he has shown any change in behavior and attitude to that of the past.

Every other time he was short tempered, nitpicking, pedantic, a clean freak and such a pain in the rear that I was ready to take up the booze to numb myself. I almost wished him back on the drink, as then he could hassle his pub pals and be out of my hair.

This time he has been none of these things, has actually been a joy to be with and a real support thru some bad moments for me.

What brought this remarkable change? I don't know for sure, but can only think it is a combination of several events finally occurring at the same time.

In the past, his reasons for sobering up ranged from, being too broke to drink, having had a very bad dose of withdrawals, realising he'd made a complete idiot of himself, had played up with a couple of tarts, lost me, was ordered to stop drinking by a Magistrate or his Doctor or given an ultimatum by me. He once went to AA, once did 6 weeks counselling, but neither lasted, and were only done to keep me sucked in longer.

This time, I told him I was done, kept out of his way, went no contact for a while and did my caring for me. He chose to get help to detox, still sees a counsellor, and reads his AA book every day.
I also think, he knows that if he drinks and becomes very unpleasant Mr Hyde, he stands to be kicked out of his pensioner unit and lose all he has now, including me.

He no longer goes to his old pubs to use the betting facilities, as he does it on computer from home, or we go somewhere quiet and pleasant for the day.

I don't know what other term could replace dry drunk, all I know is I do not have one in my life for the first time in years, and know I never will do again.

God bless

mistycshore

Sounds like my mother-in-law. She didn't drink at all, which would make her a dry dry.

trapeze

I thought my AH was a dry drunk, then I found out he was secretly drinking. He then (supposedly) would go months without drinking, but he still was not working and generally being irresponsible. So my thought is that it is very difficult to sort through whether someone is secretly drinking or just not getting better despite not drinking. However, isn't that irrelevant to those of us living with them? It is the behavior, not the cause, that is the problem for me.

mermaidgirl

Ok...I have to pitch in my 2 cents here. I have seen the dry drunk debate here a few times. I find it very interesting that AA members refer to those not working the program-dry drunks. I don't think this is a label, or self righteous at all. My RAH was a dry drunk for the first 5 years after he stopped drinking. I think what we can lose sight of is drink for an alcoholic is only part of the puzzle-there are behaviors associated with this disease that make it very difficult to live with for the loved ones. The consequences of those behaviors are hard on the RA as well...it's just a lousy disease, folks!

For those of us who have experienced the "dry drunk" behaviors in our loved ones-only we understand this "dry drunk" language, if you will. It is unique, frustrating and a reminder that things [I]can[I] be different and better, but it is certainly up to our HP, as is everything in life.

puckettcg

I'm also new to the boards and have trying to figure out this whole "dry drunk" vernacular. It seems that someone who is a "dry drunk" is someone who is not drinking, but only because someone other than him wants him to stop drinking. Which would go hand in hand with the AA definition of someone who is not working the program. There are folks in AA who do not believe anyone who is not working the AA program is serious about recovering. I don't think that's necessarily the case as just because you don't choose the AA route, doesn't mean you don't want to recover or aren't working some kind of program. I also think there are some people in AA who are also "dry drunks" because they are only there because someone is making them go - court-ordered or spouse who has said enough.

I don't think throwing around the term based on whether they are or are not working the AA program is appropriate, but certainly folks who are being made to do something they don't want to do, whatever it is, can become angry and resentful, and altogether painful to be around. Its like a child pouting because they don't get their way is how view it. Some people lie and find out ways to get around the no drinking rule, and others lash out.

Or they could be just feeling really bad because they are getting over their physical dependence on alcohol. But, if that were the case, it would seem like it would pass after a few weeks.

feathers

I recently read several studies about the effectiveness of the AA program vs other programs within the US. It was... astounding. A quick search online will produce these for you to read.
Problem is this: I am finding that (as a now past-partner of a recovering alcoholic - 1 1/2 years sober, and recently re-entering the AA program) that my not waving the AA banner has quickly put me in the category as a threat to the RA's continued sobriety. My friend was been told to "oust" our relationship - that I am not a "safe" person.
Interesting that the other programs do not recommend separating alcoholics from those that love them. They are considered "family" and support. Note that I am not referring to a codependent or enabling situation here.
The studies all show very different statistics than what AA is projecting.
I applaud AA for helping so many people to find their way back to a sober life. It certainly works for many. However, it is not the only way, and for some, not the best way. The statistics actually show a better recovery rate in other programs. Those studies show that AA is the least effective.
In other countries, AA is not the mainstream method. However, here in the States, it gets most of the funding and support - both from the system and from the churches. Unfortunately, due to that narrow view, most AH's don't seek other methods, and are limited to just "one way."
I'm not bashing AA. I just feel that it is not the best choice for everyone. It is, however, the most well-known and has been touted as the only way for many years in the US.

Freedom1990

AA does not recommend separating alcoholics from those who love them. If that has been your experience, then I am so very sorry. That is not AA.

If you have access to a Big Book, I suggest you read the chapter entitled "To The Wives."

Ago

Wrong

AA accepts neither funding nor "support" from either "The system" nor "churches", AA is a separate non professional entity
I heartily disagree with just about all of your post and much of it is flat out misinformed and quite frankly, wrong, If you would like to see what AA does and does not do I suggest going to their website.


There are many many healthy people in AA, with 30-40-50 years of sobriety, and alcoholics can go there to get healthy, the truth is many therapists who specialize in addiction either attend AA for themselves, or go to AA at some point during their internship to study how it works

Have you read what the medical community says about alcoholism?

That it's a progressive chronic disease?

Did you feel a similar need to "save" your BF from the the grips of his drinking?

Are you losing control of your BF? Is that what frightens you?

LaTeeDa

I don't like the term 'dry drunk,' either. To me, it seems like just one more way to 'blame the alcohol.' It assumes that alcohol is the main problem, drinking or not. I believe some people just behave badly, alcohol or no alcohol. Working a 12-step program, going to therapy, having a religious epiphany, or whatever, may or may not help the behavior.

Bottom line is, there are lots of people who behave in ways that are disagreeable to me. I cannot assume that if they were 'working a program' all would be well. Each individual is responsible for their own actions, and their own way of dealing with those actions. If, when, or how someone decides to change their behavior is not for me to judge. If, when, or how I decide to change my behavior is up to me.

L

GiveLove

Great thoughts, LTD.

And since the original poster has gained not only a definition of "dry drunk" but a variety of viewpoints on it, I'm going to close this thread before it descends into a useless debate on the relative merits of AA, which is (far) outside the scope of this friends-and-family oriented forum.

Thanks to all who contributed.