nsanendmembrain

Hi,

I am an alcoholic in recovery. A 'chronic relapser' as my spouse puts it. We have been married for over a 10 years and I have been sober for 5 of those (not consecutively).

We have a cycle that we repeat:

-Me drinking
-Her enabling
-Me getting help
-Her proclaiming "I am behind you 190%!!"
-Me going to AA
-Her going to alanon
-Me getting some time under my belt and starting to work a program
-Her stopping alanon/not working a program. Hence her behaviors don't change. "it is your problem". I am not like those people" she says.
-Me becoming miserable (if you had my spouse you would drink, too mentality)
-Me drinking
Repeat

THIS time, I am 4 months sober. So now we are at the point where I have a sponsor and am working the steps. But now the cycle is to the point where she STILL does not have a sponsor and is not working any steps. She thinks that she will osmose something by 2 alanon meetings a week. I am currently working steps 3 and 4 with my sponsor and the emotions are pretty intense and deep. She says "why are you so moody/quiet/short/distant?" I explain where I am in steps and that I need to "be" without judgement and needling. She is now moping, stomping, slamming, and sighing around the house and looking to see if I am looking (wtf?). I want to tell her "if you were also in recovery with me and working an alanon program, you would understand". Her codependence is worse than ever and my response (a new one for me this time) is MORE AA meetings. Which, in turn, fuels her "you spend too much time at meetings and away from your family". My sponsor has me doing 1 meeting per day. So I go. So when I go twice in one day, she really has that "you are a selfish a**hole" look.

I tried my best to stay on my side of the street, so to speak, but I can't afford to. I am desperate to stay sober, even if it means the loss of our marriage. We are in marital counseling, and that is a story in itself. Our therapist wants us to do a "4th step" with each other and "have it out" in therapy. My resentment list is long and I add to it frequently. Spouse has not even started her list (and we are supposed to be doing this in therapy in 2 days). She said "I am nervous about the resentment list thing". I said "it is okay to be nervous, but DO it. Have fun with it....really write down all the things that **** you off about me or things that I have done." She was totally taken aback and said "I can't believe you just said that", with a disgusted look on her face. **sigh** (and then I go to a meeting)

I don't want to be apart from my kids. But I see a hotel in my future. I cannot afford to drink again.

Anyway, I am all-ears to any advice or ire that you all have for me. Thank you for being here.

Cowgirl1265

nsane, congratulations on your desire and efforts to be sober. You clearly have a tough road ahead of you but it sounds like you have a wonderful sponsor and a strong dedication to getting well.

I'm sorry your codie is being so difficult. I think you know the answers - you can't manipulate, wish, pressure or beg her into changing her ways. In the same way that you in your recovery are in God's hands by your own will, she is too in God's hands. However, it does not sound like she truly wants to make a real change at this point, so I would say that her efforts in going to Al-Anon have been more of a way of getting YOU to change without having to change her own behavior.

If living separately is what you need to maintain your sobriety, then by all means do that. I am sure the emotional stress of this codependent relationship is very difficult. But don't blame your need to drink on your wife. You feel like you want to drink when she isn't behaving the way you want her to, but she doesn't control your behavior - YOU do. She is not living up to YOUR expectation of her behaviors, but that is not within your control. Just like the addict has to choose to stop using, the codependent has to choose to stop trying to control their addict.

I wish you all the best in your efforts at sobriety, it sounds like you are committed to the program and to getting well.

leelee5675

Please don't act on anything I say here until you have heard from some others, because I cannot know how you're really feeling since I've never been in the addict's shoes. But believe me, I am, and have been for a long time, in the codependent shoes.

But I did have one thought on your situation. If you have access to a counselor, have you thought about asking for an individual session with your marriage counselor and expressing your fears and anxiety about this to him/her? Your spouse could possibly need one, too. From what you posted, it appears she is afraid to express some of her true feelings in front of you. (usually translates as "fear of rejection" in a codie's world) It's been my experience that counseling can go stale unless you can feel free to say what you really feel.

I hope you get what you need. Until you guys get this sorted out, I would continue to reach for those meetings (and suffer the consequences with your spouse) if you feel you need them to stay sober.

Still Waters

What do her actions have to do with you drinking? Nothing. What does her making a list have to do with you wanting to drink? Nothing.

Not being able to live with another or not being willing to put up with another is one thing, blaming another for your wanting/needing to drink is deflection.

ANEWAUGUST

I too am an alcoholic in recovery. I was almost six years sober, and recently relapsed..I have been sober three weeks tomorrow.

It sounds like to me., that she wants you to quit drinking, and that solves everything, so, she stops going to Al-Anon.

When you stop drinking...that changes the codie-alkie dance that you all have done for so long. She may be scared by your recovery work...you are probably changing...and she doesn't know how that will be. My husband for along time kept thinking I was going to leave because he was drinking (problem drinker), and I was not. That people tell alcoholics they have to leave if they are living with someone that drinks.

Not true...I wasn't interested in leaving him, but, I also couldn't be the same person I was before.

Change is scarey....

You are doing some great work in your recovery. Try to detach from her and her actions, wether you are living in the house, or outside the house. Let her huff and puff, stomp her feet, whatever. Give yourselves some time. The first year I was sober my marriage survived, but, I wouldn't say it was our best year

Just as nothing she did got you sober, you can't cure her codie behavior.

Congrats on the sober time.

BuffaloGal

Hi, congratulations on your sobriety, and thank you for posting.

Ditto, you can't change the moping, stomping, sighing and slamming. You can decide not to take her behavior personally, and calmly ask her to communicate directly. If you're not watching, all her effort is a waste of energy. How does the phrase go? Dislike the behavior, not the person? She may well know that dramatics are counterproductive, but not be able to stop... that's certainly a trap I've fallen into.

OK, somewhere you may have an enormous bucket of love and patience tucked away in a closet somewhere. Get it out, cause you're gonna need it. Instead of getting sucked into her song and dance, try to imagine her fear and anxiety and address it. You are becoming someone she doesn't know and can't control... show her that this person loves her and values her. And don't forget to be kind and gentle with yourself too.

I'm glad you posted your situation. Posts from recovering alcoholics always expand my perspective. Be well.

Ago

Hi

Boy Oh boy, I have some experience with this

OK, first the "hardcore party line"

OK, just like she can't "get" you sober by working "your" program you can't get her to "behave" by taking her inventory and working "her" program, doing so will only make you both sick. That's codependency at it's finest, and that will lead back to a drink and incredible pain faster then anything else I know, trying to control another human being is the fast track to hell.

I'd suggest getting your steps done, work on getting yourself healthy, what was told to me when I was in EXACTLY the your situation was:

"If you were actually working your own program, I mean REALLY working your own program you'd be so busy working on all YOUR OWN character defects you'd be so busy you wouldn't even be able to look up and take her inventory much less even SEE her."

Imagine that but with a TON of profanities and disparaging remarks about what an idiot I was and how wonderful she was for putting up with my stupid @ss in the first place.

I am going to go ahead and guess you have never finished the steps, for a number of reasons, the constant relapses, the taking her inventory instead of your own, I would suggest immersing yourself in THE PROGRAM, notice I didn't say meetings, although I recomend them strongly as well, I suggest you work THE STEPS.

They will make you FEEL BETTER. A common fallacy is you come to AA and do the steps after you feel better, NO NO a thousand times NO, you do the steps and it makes you feel better. It makes you comfortable in your own skin, it gives you the tools to navigate crap like this. resentments are the #1 offender, staying p1ssed off at your wife will get you drunk faster then anything else in the world.

I would also suggest posting down in the alcoholism 12 step forum, listen to what the guys like NavySteve, Jimhere, Cubile, Tazman, Freya, Fighting Irish, Rufus, Rob B, Laura, LizW (and a few others apologies to those I missed) etc have to say. They HAVE worked the steps, they have ACTUAL experience strength and hope with successfully navigating situations like this in sobriety.

A few are actual sober therapists with long term sobriety.

In AA it's said "beneath every skirt is a slip" what that means is relationships and resentments take out more alcoholics then anything else.

Steps 4-9 address EXACTLY every single issue you address in your post.

I'd suggest (if you want your relationship to work) picking a sponsor that has a successful relationship, we can't give away what we don't have, and taking "advice" or "guidance' from someone who is unable to have a successful relationship is likely to get you what he has.

Single.

OK, done with 'the party line" (The AA hardcore sponsor thing) now my experience strength and hope.

Look when we actually get into recovery and start changing it's more often then not rare for our spouses to get into recovery with us early on, quite often when they drag us into therapy, it's to get US to change, to show how WE are "the problem" and quite frankly, although we have been "getting nagged" for years to quit drinking, when we actually change it's terrifying for them. When the therapist suggests the codie has work to do they lose their F'ing mind, what happens next is she will demand you get a different therapist as "she doesn't like this one" or doesn't feel comfortable" with this one. I have literally seen this three times in my own relationship(s) and beyond countless times with sponsee and members of my support group.

Look, she is terrified, Go easy on her, be kind, be loving, stop attaching, treat her with "loving kindness" remember she has lost you for years to alcoholism, and now she thinks she is losing you to recovery. She is probably terrified if you "get better" you will leave her. You won't need her any more.

She is as sick as you are, and you have been very very ill. She needs time, she needs support, she needs patience, love and tolerance, I mean the patience love and tolerance that would try a saint. You owe it to her.

When you go to meetings, be a good AA'er, when you go home, be a kind and loving husband, when you go to your therapist, state your truth, and WORK YOUR STEPS" in every spare minute, it's four months, it's time.

Chop wood and carry water.

In alanon the three C's are:

You didn't cause it
You can't cure it
You can't control it

This is about alcoholism but it is equally true about codependent behaviors, except with one caveat, you did "play a part" with causing it, if you can do 4-5 you will be able to see your part, and if you can get to 9 you can start making amends, which I suspect you are doing now, making living amends.

The best thing you can do for you and her is to get healthy yourself, and then what she does is up to her.

Maybe a year after "I was you" and I was struggling in early sobriety, and my "wife" (very long term GF) were struggling with these same issues, I remember she came to me and was yelling at me and I realized I had nothing to do with what she was saying, I envisioned myself as a lighthouse, and she was like the sea, crashing against the rocks far far down below me....I was looking at her slightly smiling and said "this has nothing to do with me, what you are saying is YOU it's not me any more, I have changed"

she broke, she just F'ing snapped, she hit her bottom and thus began "her recovery", she began attending meetings, working the steps etc, she finally saw where she ended and I began, it took a LONG time though, and I figured I was in no position to judge or rush her, it takes what it takes. I was not without sin, so I couldn't cast the first stone, plus I was having a hard time seeing her, there was some plank in my eye.

Worry about you, let God worry about her and her program, focusing on her will just make you sick, and may lead to relapse, which, by the way, she may push you towards because it's "comfortable" it's "what she knows"

For now though, I'd suggest posting in the AA 12 step forum, going to meetings and working the steps.

Please please feel free to contact me here in a PM, I aint gonna say I can tell you how to "do it right" but I can sure give you my experience, strength and Hope about how NOT to do this LOL, I have a lot of years of doing the twelve steps in relationships, around relationships, as exit interviews in relationships, tons of experience with therapy and couples counseling....toss me a line and good luck.

laurie6781

Congrats on your 4 months.

You cannot fix your wife.

Your problem. A 4th step is not about 'resentments' per se it is about you and YOUR WRONGS. What was YOUR PART in things that went wrong? Just as hers is suppose to be about her part in what went wrong.

This is something you need to discuss in depth with your sponsor. Many times 'marriage counselors' who do not specialize in addiction do not understand the ramifications of what addiction does to a relationship and how the non addicted person can and many times does become 'addicted' to the addict.

So please discuss this with your sponsor.

Feel free to PM me anytime you have a question about either program.

I am grateful to be a Double Winner for many years now.

Love and hugs,

nsanendmembrain

You are right, Still Waters.

Anewaugust, I like what you said about "codie-alkie" dance. I couldn't have put it better. It just hits the nail on the head. When I detach, she flies high and to the right (so to speak). But let her alone I must.

I have started individual therapy. We explore issues and my therapist is DBT certified. I have to say DBT helps immensely. Her saying is: your thoughts become your words become your actions become your destiny. Whoa.

Spouse is also in therapy. She doesn't talk about it, so who knows what she is working on.

mfanch

Wow, my life almost exactly. I just picked up my 90 day chip.

Him: "I need more than I am getting from you but I don't feel like I will be listened to. So I'm afraid to even ask."

Me: "We had this conversation already. I also need more than I am getting from you. That is not my priority right now. I do love you. (btw...I am sitting thigh-to-thigh and holding hands with him during this talk...)

Him: Like I said......I will not be listened to. Just dismissed or deflected.

Okay. The "fight" we keep having now is: wife is sober now and needs to be "back in the saddle" as a wife. Um, no. We were too poor for me to go off to inpatient treatment and so agreed that I would do outpatient treatment and that I would have the time/space to focus on jump-starting my recovery. I would at least like to do a few steps of AA with my sponsor before I have to shift my focus. I deeply regret not going to some "free" inpatient rehab so that I was not the object of "moping, stomping, slamming, and sighing around the house". I feel as though he is not keeping up his part of the agreement.

And AGO.....I am printing out what you wrote. It is right on.

Hubby goes to some Al-anon also, but doesn't "work it". It is frustrating to see changes in myself and then notice that hubby is where he was. Same old behaviors. I am pretty much indignant at this point. I just want to say "deal with it!". But even if I said this, he wouldn't be able to.

I am so glad y'all are here!!!!

Gypsy Feet

I don't think I would like the idea of doing a 4th step together, ordered by a therapist. . .

My recovery has been a very personal and individual journey. I can't look around and see how other people are doing for to long, or I lose sight of me. I can't expend the energy to examine how my loved ones are progressing in their recovery, or lack there of, I need to spend my recovery energy on myself.

When I quit drinking it was after a terrible night which involved most of the people I love, including my (ex)husband and my daughter. My (ex) is an active alcoholic, my daughter is a pothead. I am an ex drunk and druggie, a recovering codependent, and a child of alcoholics.

I can't fix my daughter, my (ex), or anyone save myself. The opposite side of that coin, is that the buck stops here. Other people's behaviors can not make me drink or stay sober. I don't "need" anything from any one person to work my program. I enjoy the support and advice of people who have gone through this before me, and I rely on my spiritual connection to see me through what I can't do on my own, and to see my loved ones through there journey.