Relationship with surviving Co-dependent parent (advice needed) (long)
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Relationship with surviving Co-dependent parent (advice needed) (long)
I’m an adult child of an alcoholic. After almost a decade of trying to deny that there was a problem, a situation has come back into my life that has made all the old ugly trauma rear its head again. I’ve read this forum with a lot of attention. So much of what is said here resonates with my own experience. Now, I’d like to ask some advice.
In my family, it was my father who was the alcoholic. A mostly functional one, though he also had a significant gambling problem and went through periods of unemployment. I consider it a blessing in my life that he was mostly a quiet drunk (he started drinking when he got home from work and just drank in his chair until he passed out), so I was spared things like drunken rages and physical abuse that so many other children of alcoholics endured. He could be verbally cruel and inappropriately vulgar after he’d been drinking, but that and occasional drunk driving (for which he was never caught) was about as far as it went. Nevertheless, his alcoholism was very real and was a very real presence in our family. He died of liver failure 12 years ago, when I was 19.
As is common, I think we were mostly a family in denial. My mother (who did not drink) realized on some levels that my father was an alcoholic, but she always thought… and I think continues to think… that it (our family situation) wasn’t “that bad.” I was the classic lost child. I spent all of my time alone in my bedroom reading or watching TV. I identify strongly with the ACoA trait of not knowing what’s “normal.” I think all my earliest ideas of what “normal” behavior is were developed from watching TV. I didn’t have many close friends. My older brother was the stereotypical clown and developed his own drug and alcohol problems starting in high school, problems from which he may or may not yet be recovering. I’m not sure. We aren’t close.
I realize that I have childhood issues that I will be dealing with my entire life, but I really thought I’d made progress. A very important step in this direction was picking up 9 years ago, at the age of 22, and moving to the other side of the country from the rest of my family. Here, away from them, I was able to make real friends for the first time, bring people home with me, have “normal” social interactions. I still struggle with intimate relationships, and I still have a defensive wall drawn up around me, but for the first time in my life I’ve felt like a real, whole person.
My problem now is my relationship with my mother. I admit that I have A LOT of lingering anger with her related to her failure to intervene in our toxic family relationship. My mother is big on “personal responsibility”—but not in a good way. She takes “no excuses” to an extreme, to the point that we, as children, were essentially never allowed to do ANYTHING wrong without having that thing considered a sign of moral failure or weakness. If I got a 99 on a test but lost the 1 point because of a stupid mistake, all I was going to hear about was the mistake. If I gained 10 lbs, I was going to get a lecture about everything that went in my mouth. She runs constant, negative, critical commentary about me and about any of my friends who are unfortunate enough to meet her. I understand that a lot of this stems from her own issues in our family. Her refusal to admit that external circumstances can sometimes play a role in people’s behavior is most likely a defense mechanism designed to keep her from having to face the reality that she herself is partly responsible for my brother’s addiction issues, for my failure to develop long-term intimate relationships, etc. It’s probably easier for her psychologically if she can write all these things off as our fault and our faults alone. “No excuses,” right?
Anyway, after the death of my father, one of the ways I finally found peace was by moving away and distancing myself from my mother. I don’t know if she realizes how distant our relationship is since I talk to her on a regular basis, but I essentially stopped talking to her years ago about anything at all in my life that is important to me. It’s the only way I know of keeping my life healthy—marginalizing her and keeping her away from it all. I think she realizes I don’t tell her some things… but again, she just blames it on me and calls me “secretive.”
The problem is that she retired last year and upon retirement moved across the country to an apartment 4 miles away from me. She thinks she is doing me a favor. She lived several states away from her own parents at the time of their passing (my father had moved us away from all our family—likely to keep them all from finding out about his drinking), and it was very stressful trying to care for aging parents from hundreds of miles away. She thinks that by moving closer to me, she is going to prevent me from having to deal with that. She never asked my permission. I don’t know that even if she had that I would have been able to refuse. I don’t know that it would have been fair.
Basically, I’m freaking out. Her arrival coincided with a 3-month break in my work schedule (I ended one job, and my new one doesn’t start until 3 months from now), and I picked up and moved, literally, to the other side of the world for the length of the work hiatus. Partly because I enjoy travel, but if I’m honest, partly to get away from her. All of a sudden, the city I have loved so much for the last decade seems less appealing, and I'm starting to realize that a large part of its appeal in the first place may have been that my family was NOT there.
I don’t know what to do. My mom is 65 and in perfect health. Both of her parents lived well into their 80s. I feel like I’m looking at a 20+ year sentence of having her always around, bringing into my life the negativity and dysfunction that I worked so hard to escape and that I’ve been so happy without. Now, with her right across town, I have no excuses for not introducing boyfriends to her, not coming home for Christmas, not letting her see where I live, etc. If I ever have kids, she’ll expect to be involved in their lives. It’s driving me crazy.
Has anyone out there been though a similar experience? I’m really freaking out. She’s been in town less than a month (and I’ve been gone for 3 weeks of it), and I already feel unhappier than I have in years. I would suggest counseling, but she would never go. I suggested it years ago when my brother was a teenage addict, and she said she didn’t want to go because she had a friend who had gone to counseling with her kids and the counselor had “taken the child’s side.” In other words—my mother doesn’t want to go to counseling because she doesn’t want anyone to tell her that she has done or is doing anything wrong.
After 31 years, I’ve essentially given up hope that she’s ever going to “get it.” I was with her on Father’s Day, and there was some report on TV about pressures on today’s fathers, and she turned to me and said “how would you rate your father as a dad?” I didn’t want to get into it with her so just said “I’m not going to answer that.” And she proceeded to say that she thought he’d “done a good job” “aside from the drinking and gambling.” Basically… she still doesn’t get it. She just wants to believe he did a good job because it absolves her of guilt for not protecting us.
I’m sorry for the long post. This has just been building up inside for so long, and I needed to get it out. Any advice on dealing with this situation would be greatly appreciated.
In my family, it was my father who was the alcoholic. A mostly functional one, though he also had a significant gambling problem and went through periods of unemployment. I consider it a blessing in my life that he was mostly a quiet drunk (he started drinking when he got home from work and just drank in his chair until he passed out), so I was spared things like drunken rages and physical abuse that so many other children of alcoholics endured. He could be verbally cruel and inappropriately vulgar after he’d been drinking, but that and occasional drunk driving (for which he was never caught) was about as far as it went. Nevertheless, his alcoholism was very real and was a very real presence in our family. He died of liver failure 12 years ago, when I was 19.
As is common, I think we were mostly a family in denial. My mother (who did not drink) realized on some levels that my father was an alcoholic, but she always thought… and I think continues to think… that it (our family situation) wasn’t “that bad.” I was the classic lost child. I spent all of my time alone in my bedroom reading or watching TV. I identify strongly with the ACoA trait of not knowing what’s “normal.” I think all my earliest ideas of what “normal” behavior is were developed from watching TV. I didn’t have many close friends. My older brother was the stereotypical clown and developed his own drug and alcohol problems starting in high school, problems from which he may or may not yet be recovering. I’m not sure. We aren’t close.
I realize that I have childhood issues that I will be dealing with my entire life, but I really thought I’d made progress. A very important step in this direction was picking up 9 years ago, at the age of 22, and moving to the other side of the country from the rest of my family. Here, away from them, I was able to make real friends for the first time, bring people home with me, have “normal” social interactions. I still struggle with intimate relationships, and I still have a defensive wall drawn up around me, but for the first time in my life I’ve felt like a real, whole person.
My problem now is my relationship with my mother. I admit that I have A LOT of lingering anger with her related to her failure to intervene in our toxic family relationship. My mother is big on “personal responsibility”—but not in a good way. She takes “no excuses” to an extreme, to the point that we, as children, were essentially never allowed to do ANYTHING wrong without having that thing considered a sign of moral failure or weakness. If I got a 99 on a test but lost the 1 point because of a stupid mistake, all I was going to hear about was the mistake. If I gained 10 lbs, I was going to get a lecture about everything that went in my mouth. She runs constant, negative, critical commentary about me and about any of my friends who are unfortunate enough to meet her. I understand that a lot of this stems from her own issues in our family. Her refusal to admit that external circumstances can sometimes play a role in people’s behavior is most likely a defense mechanism designed to keep her from having to face the reality that she herself is partly responsible for my brother’s addiction issues, for my failure to develop long-term intimate relationships, etc. It’s probably easier for her psychologically if she can write all these things off as our fault and our faults alone. “No excuses,” right?
Anyway, after the death of my father, one of the ways I finally found peace was by moving away and distancing myself from my mother. I don’t know if she realizes how distant our relationship is since I talk to her on a regular basis, but I essentially stopped talking to her years ago about anything at all in my life that is important to me. It’s the only way I know of keeping my life healthy—marginalizing her and keeping her away from it all. I think she realizes I don’t tell her some things… but again, she just blames it on me and calls me “secretive.”
The problem is that she retired last year and upon retirement moved across the country to an apartment 4 miles away from me. She thinks she is doing me a favor. She lived several states away from her own parents at the time of their passing (my father had moved us away from all our family—likely to keep them all from finding out about his drinking), and it was very stressful trying to care for aging parents from hundreds of miles away. She thinks that by moving closer to me, she is going to prevent me from having to deal with that. She never asked my permission. I don’t know that even if she had that I would have been able to refuse. I don’t know that it would have been fair.
Basically, I’m freaking out. Her arrival coincided with a 3-month break in my work schedule (I ended one job, and my new one doesn’t start until 3 months from now), and I picked up and moved, literally, to the other side of the world for the length of the work hiatus. Partly because I enjoy travel, but if I’m honest, partly to get away from her. All of a sudden, the city I have loved so much for the last decade seems less appealing, and I'm starting to realize that a large part of its appeal in the first place may have been that my family was NOT there.
I don’t know what to do. My mom is 65 and in perfect health. Both of her parents lived well into their 80s. I feel like I’m looking at a 20+ year sentence of having her always around, bringing into my life the negativity and dysfunction that I worked so hard to escape and that I’ve been so happy without. Now, with her right across town, I have no excuses for not introducing boyfriends to her, not coming home for Christmas, not letting her see where I live, etc. If I ever have kids, she’ll expect to be involved in their lives. It’s driving me crazy.
Has anyone out there been though a similar experience? I’m really freaking out. She’s been in town less than a month (and I’ve been gone for 3 weeks of it), and I already feel unhappier than I have in years. I would suggest counseling, but she would never go. I suggested it years ago when my brother was a teenage addict, and she said she didn’t want to go because she had a friend who had gone to counseling with her kids and the counselor had “taken the child’s side.” In other words—my mother doesn’t want to go to counseling because she doesn’t want anyone to tell her that she has done or is doing anything wrong.
After 31 years, I’ve essentially given up hope that she’s ever going to “get it.” I was with her on Father’s Day, and there was some report on TV about pressures on today’s fathers, and she turned to me and said “how would you rate your father as a dad?” I didn’t want to get into it with her so just said “I’m not going to answer that.” And she proceeded to say that she thought he’d “done a good job” “aside from the drinking and gambling.” Basically… she still doesn’t get it. She just wants to believe he did a good job because it absolves her of guilt for not protecting us.
I’m sorry for the long post. This has just been building up inside for so long, and I needed to get it out. Any advice on dealing with this situation would be greatly appreciated.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,294
Hoo boy, do I ever GET your post. I'd have to write a thesis to explain why, but I totally understand your position and fears. And, I'd like to add that your fears are real and VALID. You are not crazy, or terminally selfish, or a bad daughter.
I'm going to keep this post short and go look for something I found very helpful. Back in a bit, whether I find it or not. Others will be along, too, to post.
Welcome!
CLMI
I'm going to keep this post short and go look for something I found very helpful. Back in a bit, whether I find it or not. Others will be along, too, to post.
Welcome!
CLMI
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,294
Whoo-hoo, I found it fast! I'm going to share this link with you and you go read and mull this over and see if it resonates.
For people who don't know normality; Your Bill of Rights if You're A Human Being.
Those of us raised by controllers grew up without many of the above.
Let me know what your thoughts are about them.
I know I had to let them sink in for quite a while before I really, REALLY realized how distorted my idea of reality was from the result of the way I was raised. It was so helpful to me to see them in writing, and to mull them over and know that they came to be, IN WRITING, because they are REAL, and MANY people have issues knowing what their rights should be, because they didn't grow up in healthy environments.
I hope others on the board will read the link and chime in on this discussion, too.
Sending encouragement,
CLMI
For people who don't know normality; Your Bill of Rights if You're A Human Being.
Those of us raised by controllers grew up without many of the above.
Let me know what your thoughts are about them.
I know I had to let them sink in for quite a while before I really, REALLY realized how distorted my idea of reality was from the result of the way I was raised. It was so helpful to me to see them in writing, and to mull them over and know that they came to be, IN WRITING, because they are REAL, and MANY people have issues knowing what their rights should be, because they didn't grow up in healthy environments.
I hope others on the board will read the link and chime in on this discussion, too.
Sending encouragement,
CLMI
peaceful seabird
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: floating
Posts: 4,822
Hi JoelleJ
Welcome to the SR family!:ghug3
It is sometimes quiet here on the weekend. Stick around and make yourself at home. You may also want to check out the forum for Adult Children of Addicted/Alcoholic parents.
I did not have a great relationship with my mother. I felt that she was addicted to drama and I wanted peace and love in my life. She commented on how she felt our relationship was uncomfortable after my dad passed away 9 years ago. It was.
I maintained physical distance by moving away (not as far as you did) at the age of 19. I was able to maintain that physical distance. We did visit regularly.
I also kept an emotional distance. Once I realized that our relationship was toxic to my mental stability, I limited my sharing with her. If I didn't want to hear about it for the next 20 years, or have it published in the church bulletin, I kept it to myself. I had to do the same thing with my sister. My mother said she understood why I had to keep my sister at a distance when I explained that the negative energy and venom in her conversations was physically, emotionally and spiritually draining. Yet she did not recognize that the negative apple had fallen from it's family tree!
Today, I have a great deal of respect for my mother. My HP got involved. My mother got cancer and I got to take care of her. It wasn't all sunshine and roses at the beginning, infact, she drove me slap crazy! But as her disease progressed and my responsibilities increased, we entered a different dynamic. I learned from her friends (some relationships over 40 years) and co-workers what a caring, compassionate person she had been in their lives (nursing).
That was not the mother I knew. I realized later that the mom I had, was the mom she had. She was doing the best she knew how. In her nursing career, she had instruction and role models. She was able to do what they needed her to do. At home, she did what she thought was best. That's all she could do.
I learned a lot about myself as I learned to help her finish her life.I am now grateful for the opportunity. I certainly resented the responsibility at the time.
I think you are going to need to maintain your boundaries with your mom at this phase in your life. Al-Coa and Al-Anon may help you with the boundaries and recovery. The only life you have control of is yours. You did not cause her to be this way, you can not control her, and you can not cure her.
You can love her and deal with her with compassion. Support groups and your new friends here will help you along the way!
Welcome to the SR family!:ghug3
It is sometimes quiet here on the weekend. Stick around and make yourself at home. You may also want to check out the forum for Adult Children of Addicted/Alcoholic parents.
I did not have a great relationship with my mother. I felt that she was addicted to drama and I wanted peace and love in my life. She commented on how she felt our relationship was uncomfortable after my dad passed away 9 years ago. It was.
I maintained physical distance by moving away (not as far as you did) at the age of 19. I was able to maintain that physical distance. We did visit regularly.
I also kept an emotional distance. Once I realized that our relationship was toxic to my mental stability, I limited my sharing with her. If I didn't want to hear about it for the next 20 years, or have it published in the church bulletin, I kept it to myself. I had to do the same thing with my sister. My mother said she understood why I had to keep my sister at a distance when I explained that the negative energy and venom in her conversations was physically, emotionally and spiritually draining. Yet she did not recognize that the negative apple had fallen from it's family tree!
Today, I have a great deal of respect for my mother. My HP got involved. My mother got cancer and I got to take care of her. It wasn't all sunshine and roses at the beginning, infact, she drove me slap crazy! But as her disease progressed and my responsibilities increased, we entered a different dynamic. I learned from her friends (some relationships over 40 years) and co-workers what a caring, compassionate person she had been in their lives (nursing).
That was not the mother I knew. I realized later that the mom I had, was the mom she had. She was doing the best she knew how. In her nursing career, she had instruction and role models. She was able to do what they needed her to do. At home, she did what she thought was best. That's all she could do.
I learned a lot about myself as I learned to help her finish her life.I am now grateful for the opportunity. I certainly resented the responsibility at the time.
I think you are going to need to maintain your boundaries with your mom at this phase in your life. Al-Coa and Al-Anon may help you with the boundaries and recovery. The only life you have control of is yours. You did not cause her to be this way, you can not control her, and you can not cure her.
You can love her and deal with her with compassion. Support groups and your new friends here will help you along the way!
peaceful seabird
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: floating
Posts: 4,822
Originally Posted by catlovermi 
Hoo boy, do I ever GET your post. I'd have to write a thesis to explain why
Welcome!
CLMI
Welcome!
CLMI
My thoughts were "Oh, this could be a long reply! I so get this!!"
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Anywhere but the mainstream.
Posts: 402
((((JoelleJ))))
Seconding catlovermi's thesis comment
YES YES YES to alcoholic father, perfectionism (on a report card full of As, the only comments I got were on the single 'B' I had in physics), co-dependent mother in denial, etc. Another big YES to this comment as well:
Any desire of a family member to express their individuality and live their own life is considered a betrayal. Something as easy as a phone call to say, "I'd like to drop by if you're not busy" is exaggerated to be "making an appointment".
Same. My mom pretends (I don't know what else to call it, but it can't be described any other way) to listen when I complain and express how profoundly hurt I am over my dad. Then at the last xmas I attended, after nearly bawling in the car, we go inside and she asks me to go sit on my father's lap (I'm a grown woman in my mid-20s!!!) to sing xmas songs!
Like you, I moved far far away (across the country) and if I knew either of my parents were moving here tomorrow, I'd probably seriously consider moving again after seeing whether I could keep my boundaries HIGH. Don't spend father's day with your mom because you feel obligated; just do what you would normally do. Father's day for me is a bit of a sensitive issue, so being near my hyper-permissive codependent mother would be an especially bad idea for my well-being. I don't talk to her on days like that (birthdays too) because it brings back too many bad feelings/memories.
End point: I don't see why your boundaries have to be much different now that your mom is living close. That is, unless you never had to actually practice boundaries because you moved away. If that's the case, consider seeing a counsellor with whom you can practice verbalizing those boundaries with. You can even do it here. But otherwise just because your mom lives in town doesn't mean your rules for contact have to change - they just have to be maintained.
Seconding catlovermi's thesis comment
YES YES YES to alcoholic father, perfectionism (on a report card full of As, the only comments I got were on the single 'B' I had in physics), co-dependent mother in denial, etc. Another big YES to this comment as well:
It’s the only way I know of keeping my life healthy—marginalizing her and keeping her away from it all. I think she realizes I don’t tell her some things… but again, she just blames it on me and calls me “secretive.”
She just wants to believe he did a good job because it absolves her of guilt for not protecting us.
Like you, I moved far far away (across the country) and if I knew either of my parents were moving here tomorrow, I'd probably seriously consider moving again after seeing whether I could keep my boundaries HIGH. Don't spend father's day with your mom because you feel obligated; just do what you would normally do. Father's day for me is a bit of a sensitive issue, so being near my hyper-permissive codependent mother would be an especially bad idea for my well-being. I don't talk to her on days like that (birthdays too) because it brings back too many bad feelings/memories.
End point: I don't see why your boundaries have to be much different now that your mom is living close. That is, unless you never had to actually practice boundaries because you moved away. If that's the case, consider seeing a counsellor with whom you can practice verbalizing those boundaries with. You can even do it here. But otherwise just because your mom lives in town doesn't mean your rules for contact have to change - they just have to be maintained.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,059
hi joellej-
gee, what a bad spot you're in. i don't think its fair of her to move to your city without discussing it with you. it's also not fair what is implied...which is that you will nurse her in her old age.
i have similar dynamic in my family. i changed countries because of it! my father kept stepping over my boundaries. i finally cut him out of my life entirely, which put my mother in a tough spot. she chose (for the only time i've ever witnessed) to go against him and maintain a relationship with me.
when my father died of cancer, i did not attend the funeral. no one understood and there was so much unspoken resentment towards me from my family. however, my mother surprised me and understood. things have been much better since then for us.
this might end up being an opportunity for you, to heal this relationship. is it possible that she isn't the same now that your dad is dead?
again, i don't think its fair that she expects a 31 year old to live forever in the same place and tend to her. you are entitled to your life.
lastly, i find jesus' words coming to mind, when asked a similar question. he said "to leave the dead to bury the dead". i don't know if you are a spiritual person, but i am, and i had to leave my father behind to discover myself, as he was dead already really and wanting me to be dead also.
gee, what a bad spot you're in. i don't think its fair of her to move to your city without discussing it with you. it's also not fair what is implied...which is that you will nurse her in her old age.
i have similar dynamic in my family. i changed countries because of it! my father kept stepping over my boundaries. i finally cut him out of my life entirely, which put my mother in a tough spot. she chose (for the only time i've ever witnessed) to go against him and maintain a relationship with me.
when my father died of cancer, i did not attend the funeral. no one understood and there was so much unspoken resentment towards me from my family. however, my mother surprised me and understood. things have been much better since then for us.
this might end up being an opportunity for you, to heal this relationship. is it possible that she isn't the same now that your dad is dead?
again, i don't think its fair that she expects a 31 year old to live forever in the same place and tend to her. you are entitled to your life.
lastly, i find jesus' words coming to mind, when asked a similar question. he said "to leave the dead to bury the dead". i don't know if you are a spiritual person, but i am, and i had to leave my father behind to discover myself, as he was dead already really and wanting me to be dead also.
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