Disillusionment
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Join Date: Feb 2008
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Disillusionment
I have been feeling very strange since Monday's therapist visit and the subsequent thread/posts here.
I've been actively avoiding seeing ABF and completely tongue tied when we talk on the phone.
Tomorrow we have a date. It was going to be a family thing, but I called a babysitter so we can talk.
He has no idea that I want to talk.
I am so afraid of talking that I tremble, have heart palpitations and feel like I'm going to throw up or faint. I'm not even sure what to say--keep replaying possible conversations in my head. The only thing that I keep coming back to is the idea that this relationship doesn't meet my needs.
Is that enough? This man is not evil or abusive. He is going to want to know what, specifically, the problem is. The problem is not solvable, I don't think. I worry that if I delve into the details, he will turn it around on me and make me feel like there is something wrong with my feelings.
I'm at a point where I don't want a discussion--I just want to be alone. I think I owe it to him to talk in person, but I'm flat out terrified.
I've been actively avoiding seeing ABF and completely tongue tied when we talk on the phone.
Tomorrow we have a date. It was going to be a family thing, but I called a babysitter so we can talk.
He has no idea that I want to talk.
I am so afraid of talking that I tremble, have heart palpitations and feel like I'm going to throw up or faint. I'm not even sure what to say--keep replaying possible conversations in my head. The only thing that I keep coming back to is the idea that this relationship doesn't meet my needs.
Is that enough? This man is not evil or abusive. He is going to want to know what, specifically, the problem is. The problem is not solvable, I don't think. I worry that if I delve into the details, he will turn it around on me and make me feel like there is something wrong with my feelings.
I'm at a point where I don't want a discussion--I just want to be alone. I think I owe it to him to talk in person, but I'm flat out terrified.
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Stumbling toward happiness
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((( nowwhat )))
You are under absolutely no obligation to do this right now, face-to-face, until your feelings are clearer and you are feeling stronger.
You are also under no obligation to keep your date.
These are artificial things you're imposing on yourself, and I'd encourage you (gently, as is my way
) to ponder this some more if you are ready to puke at the thought of this confrontation right now. But if you feel now is the right time, then I can highly recommend the herb skullcap, which is great for anxiety (I'm not a doctor...that just works for me)
And from what you've told us about him, I would gamble that you're right: no matter HOW you do this, he is accustomed to being able to manipulate things so they benefit HIM, and you may simply be a target.
I knew it was done for me when I realized that I was no longer a person to my XABF, just a concept, a lovely object to be manipulated into the "right" behavior. It was hard to cut myself loose in the face of that, even though it made me sick to my stomach to be cast in that role.
But then? It was over, and I got on with my life, one step at a time.
No Contact helped a lot at that point.
Do what you're ready for....
You are under absolutely no obligation to do this right now, face-to-face, until your feelings are clearer and you are feeling stronger.
You are also under no obligation to keep your date.
These are artificial things you're imposing on yourself, and I'd encourage you (gently, as is my way
) to ponder this some more if you are ready to puke at the thought of this confrontation right now. But if you feel now is the right time, then I can highly recommend the herb skullcap, which is great for anxiety (I'm not a doctor...that just works for me)And from what you've told us about him, I would gamble that you're right: no matter HOW you do this, he is accustomed to being able to manipulate things so they benefit HIM, and you may simply be a target.
I knew it was done for me when I realized that I was no longer a person to my XABF, just a concept, a lovely object to be manipulated into the "right" behavior. It was hard to cut myself loose in the face of that, even though it made me sick to my stomach to be cast in that role.
But then? It was over, and I got on with my life, one step at a time.
No Contact helped a lot at that point.
Do what you're ready for....
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Between the ocean and the mountains
Posts: 653
I've been in your shoes. The nausea and trembling when a "meeting" to "discuss" the relationship with an A was scheduled. I was terrified, too. And he sat there looking as if HE was the one who had it all together and I was the one who was the nut.
We can't win, you know, in any "debate" or "discussion" with an A. The A will always be ten steps ahead of us. It's like stepping into the ring with a prize fighter. He will NOT let us win. Period.
So I would advise you not to try to get him to see your point of view, or come to some sort of amicable resolution, or have any sort of mature and rational discussion.
Bottom line: "You are an addict and because of it, I am out of here."
Then do what you say: get out of the room and the relationship.
We can't win, you know, in any "debate" or "discussion" with an A. The A will always be ten steps ahead of us. It's like stepping into the ring with a prize fighter. He will NOT let us win. Period.
So I would advise you not to try to get him to see your point of view, or come to some sort of amicable resolution, or have any sort of mature and rational discussion.
Bottom line: "You are an addict and because of it, I am out of here."
Then do what you say: get out of the room and the relationship.
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 286
The only thing that I keep coming back to is the idea that this relationship doesn't meet my needs.
Is that enough?
Is that enough?
I worry that if I delve into the details, he will turn it around on me and make me feel like there is something wrong with my feelings.
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 273
Originally Posted by nowwhat 
I'm at a point where I don't want a discussion--I just want to be alone. I think I owe it to him to talk in person, but I'm flat out terrified.
It is hard sometimes to do these things in person.
Sometimes doing the "right" thing is the "hard" way.
I would just have a single line about how your decision is made and you aren't going to change it no matter what he says.
If you can do it I bet you will feel so accomplished!!
oops: advice giving -- what I meant to say is that when I do what I think I should even though it can be really difficult it a) allows me to look back with no regrets and b) usually leaves me with a sense of empowerment
do what works for you and let us know the outcome
good luck
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,294
Perhaps your anxiety is because you already KNOW what's going to happen, and yet you persist in forcing yourself into this situation.
By this I mean that you already know
Some weird "codie code of conduct" is telling you you must
I say: Look at the codie code for what it is - a bunch of un-truths.
You will not accomplish anything by putting yourself through this torture. He is not going to magically come around to see your point of view, nor are you going to get some magical healing or closure from him by doing it, and in person.
If you MUST say your piece, put it in a note. And then be done. There is no reason you need to be there F2F to sustain more damage. There is no reason you need to see any of his response. You can impart the same message by note, if you feel you must.
Don't listen to the "codie code," it's what's held you in this for so long, already. Time to ditch the "codie code."
CLMI
By this I mean that you already know
- He won't be able to "hear" your message,
- He will turn whatever you say against you,
- He will make you feel worse, for having done it, and provide you no closure.
Some weird "codie code of conduct" is telling you you must
- Attempt this communication, to say what you REALLY feel,
- Say it in PERSON, to be "fair,"
- Do it despite KNOWING it's going to cause you more pain and harm.
I say: Look at the codie code for what it is - a bunch of un-truths.
You will not accomplish anything by putting yourself through this torture. He is not going to magically come around to see your point of view, nor are you going to get some magical healing or closure from him by doing it, and in person.
If you MUST say your piece, put it in a note. And then be done. There is no reason you need to be there F2F to sustain more damage. There is no reason you need to see any of his response. You can impart the same message by note, if you feel you must.
Don't listen to the "codie code," it's what's held you in this for so long, already. Time to ditch the "codie code."
CLMI
A jug fills drop by drop
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,784
hi nowwhat!
Against all sound advice here I talked to ex AHbf for the last time. If you already know about his manipulation, you can be sure he will do it again. Be prepared because he will probably say things to hurt you - a.k.a quack, because you are a menace to his addiction.
I will tell you this, seeing his view -while sober- I realized he is just a cruel person inside, booze or not, when confronted about alcohol he just stared as if I was talking in a dead language, he said I shouldn't have done this or that, NEVER ever took responsibility for ANYTHING, you know the drill.... cold and heartless.
So no matter if you talk or not, do it if YOU need to take it out of your system, but do not expect respect or understanding... its just an alternate universe where they live. Seeing this clearly helped me to know our worlds are totally apart. Hurt, but helped.
I should have sent the note.... "you are addicted, its over" no need for any further explanation that will fall in deaf ears anyway... but I still had some faith on the person he was before, or thought there would still be some way to communicate with him. Yuk. Totally gone. He was surprised I was still aching - it had been 2 months since the breakup.
BTW he "apologized", which was the emptiest apology I have ever received. He did not even look me at the eye.
Against all sound advice here I talked to ex AHbf for the last time. If you already know about his manipulation, you can be sure he will do it again. Be prepared because he will probably say things to hurt you - a.k.a quack, because you are a menace to his addiction.
I will tell you this, seeing his view -while sober- I realized he is just a cruel person inside, booze or not, when confronted about alcohol he just stared as if I was talking in a dead language, he said I shouldn't have done this or that, NEVER ever took responsibility for ANYTHING, you know the drill.... cold and heartless.
So no matter if you talk or not, do it if YOU need to take it out of your system, but do not expect respect or understanding... its just an alternate universe where they live. Seeing this clearly helped me to know our worlds are totally apart. Hurt, but helped.
I should have sent the note.... "you are addicted, its over" no need for any further explanation that will fall in deaf ears anyway... but I still had some faith on the person he was before, or thought there would still be some way to communicate with him. Yuk. Totally gone. He was surprised I was still aching - it had been 2 months since the breakup.
BTW he "apologized", which was the emptiest apology I have ever received. He did not even look me at the eye.
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 68
I wish you luck with your conversation. I'm going to have a big talk with my AH tomorrow night myself & am very nervous about it, as well. I had a session with my therapist yesterday, and it was the main focus of the discussion - how to handle it. She suggested I come up with a "catch phrase" - like yours "This relationship doesn't meet my needs." She said to just say that catch phrase in response to any manipulations or guilt attempts he throws at you. (I know my AH is a champ at trying to win me back with words.) That worked for me when I told him I was moving out, and I'm hoping it'll give me strength this weekend. I'm dreading the conversation, but I know I'll feel relieved when it's over. Hugs to you...
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Getting ready for the evening, still don't know what to say, really.
It would be easier if there was some big, obvious thing to discuss. It's not a "you're an addict" kind of thing--I've never been exposed to any drunken abuse.
If I didn't see him, or didn't give him an explanation, he would be very hurt. Nothing has happened out of the ordinary. I think I'm just really beginning to believe that this relationship takes more out of me than it gives me. Not really because of drinking, even though he clearly has a problem with alcohol.
For me, it's the mood swings and inconsistent messages. I'm starting to formulate an idea that it's about incompatible lifestyles. I'm a full time mom, a full time employee, and very hardworking. He is very self indulgent and has a lot of time on his hands. It's become obvious to me that he doesn't want to give up his "easy" life to take on a domestic partner.
I guess I've realized that it's not wrong for me to desire something more, something consistent, and something that nurtures ME a little.
Alcohol isn't the big issue here, in other words, but the alcoholic personality is.
I have dreams of having a life together with someone who I can lean on and also support. In this situation I don't really have either.
If something drastic had happened, this would be a lot easier for me. This has been a slow growing realization and I have most likely not given him any reason to see it coming.
It would be easier if there was some big, obvious thing to discuss. It's not a "you're an addict" kind of thing--I've never been exposed to any drunken abuse.
If I didn't see him, or didn't give him an explanation, he would be very hurt. Nothing has happened out of the ordinary. I think I'm just really beginning to believe that this relationship takes more out of me than it gives me. Not really because of drinking, even though he clearly has a problem with alcohol.
For me, it's the mood swings and inconsistent messages. I'm starting to formulate an idea that it's about incompatible lifestyles. I'm a full time mom, a full time employee, and very hardworking. He is very self indulgent and has a lot of time on his hands. It's become obvious to me that he doesn't want to give up his "easy" life to take on a domestic partner.
I guess I've realized that it's not wrong for me to desire something more, something consistent, and something that nurtures ME a little.
Alcohol isn't the big issue here, in other words, but the alcoholic personality is.
I have dreams of having a life together with someone who I can lean on and also support. In this situation I don't really have either.
If something drastic had happened, this would be a lot easier for me. This has been a slow growing realization and I have most likely not given him any reason to see it coming.
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Try to remember--it is what it is. Sometimes relationships don't work out. In fact, more relationships DON'T work out than DO.
It doesn't mean you have to be right and he has to be wrong. It doesn't mean you have to justify why you don't want to continue. It doesn't mean you have to convince him of your position. It just didn't work out. It is what it is.................
L
It doesn't mean you have to be right and he has to be wrong. It doesn't mean you have to justify why you don't want to continue. It doesn't mean you have to convince him of your position. It just didn't work out. It is what it is.................
L
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Join Date: Nov 2008
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Hi nowwhat, sending you good vibes, please let us know how it went. ((hugs))
I agree with LTD, the rare one is the one that works!
Good for you for remembering your dreams and taking steps to achieve them.
I am learning people will come to my life to teach me something, then leave... they do not come to make me happy. They come to teach me the meaning of happiness, and that is accepting every moment as it is.. every feeling as it is... every thought as it is, to embrace life in its wholeness. Everything has its moment and its purpose...
((Hugs)) and ~~good vibes~~!!
I agree with LTD, the rare one is the one that works!
Good for you for remembering your dreams and taking steps to achieve them.
I am learning people will come to my life to teach me something, then leave... they do not come to make me happy. They come to teach me the meaning of happiness, and that is accepting every moment as it is.. every feeling as it is... every thought as it is, to embrace life in its wholeness. Everything has its moment and its purpose...
((Hugs)) and ~~good vibes~~!!
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Join Date: Feb 2008
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We talked and it wasn't bad. He says he loves me, but isn't ready for anything more than what we have. I said I love him but I need more and don't feel he loves me the way I want to be loved.
I told him that this felt too familiar--a lot like my marriage--where my partner seems only half there, all the while professing deep love and commitment.
It wasn't a scene, it wasn't icky feeling.
I am really sad. Really, really sad and crying and hurt. But at least the sadness and tears help relieve tension. The anxiety I've been feeling lately has caused a lot of suffering, and I'm tired of hurting.
I told him that this felt too familiar--a lot like my marriage--where my partner seems only half there, all the while professing deep love and commitment.
It wasn't a scene, it wasn't icky feeling.
I am really sad. Really, really sad and crying and hurt. But at least the sadness and tears help relieve tension. The anxiety I've been feeling lately has caused a lot of suffering, and I'm tired of hurting.
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Join Date: Dec 2006
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nowwhat,
Sending hugs and strength to you this morning.
You've done the right thing for yourself, but that doesn't make it any easier. It's a big change of habit, and it's bound to be jarring. You just want different things right now.......many of us will just go along with something like this for years, kinda like, "You want X and I want Y. Well......I could LEARN to want X too if it'll make you happy!!" Glad you aren't.
I'm sorry that it didn't work the way you'd originally hoped it would. But I am glad that you've honored yourself by not staying in a relationship that wasn't giving you what you need, and in fact was giving you a lot of what you DON'T need.
Take tender care of yourself for a few days, and especially today, try to plan something that makes you feel good about yourself.
Sending hugs and strength to you this morning.
You've done the right thing for yourself, but that doesn't make it any easier. It's a big change of habit, and it's bound to be jarring. You just want different things right now.......many of us will just go along with something like this for years, kinda like, "You want X and I want Y. Well......I could LEARN to want X too if it'll make you happy!!" Glad you aren't.
I'm sorry that it didn't work the way you'd originally hoped it would. But I am glad that you've honored yourself by not staying in a relationship that wasn't giving you what you need, and in fact was giving you a lot of what you DON'T need.
Take tender care of yourself for a few days, and especially today, try to plan something that makes you feel good about yourself.
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Join Date: Feb 2008
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I found this and it helps me some:
Not really spiritual, more practical. I am going to keep referring to this and trying to accept that someone with as many problems as my BF is just not capable of having this kind of love.
I have problems too. Big ones in the areas of direct communication and assertiveness.
I'm going to take the time to nurture myself, continue with therapy, and be alone. I have put off really making my house a home that I enjoy (decorating) because I've spent all of my free time with him and putting off having the life I want now while entertaining magical thinking/rescue fantasies. I have not been doing the things that make me really happy (sewing, painting, cooking, gardening, homemaking). So at least I have something to focus on now.
In four weeks, I am off work for 10 weeks and will have time to take care of my children and myself really deliciously!
Last night I dreamed that I got on a plane with my two little ones and ended up in Hawaii. It was surreal and gorgeous and we were all so thrilled and happy. I never remember my dreams--so I think this one was a gift from the universe.
I can do this!
The commitment dimension of love is often viewed as the decision to stay with one's partner for life. Commitments may range from simple verbal agreements (agreements not to become emotionally and/or sexually involved with other people) to publically formalized legal contracts (marriage). However, commitment is more than simply agreeing to stay with your partner through bad times. Commitment means being devoted to doing things to nurture the relationship and protect it from harm and to fix it if damaged. Both partners care about each other's needs and must be willing to put each other's needs first--including being willing to make personal sacrifices for the good of the relationship. The partners should be willing to depend on each other and feel secure that each will be loyal to each other and to the relationship.
I have problems too. Big ones in the areas of direct communication and assertiveness.
I'm going to take the time to nurture myself, continue with therapy, and be alone. I have put off really making my house a home that I enjoy (decorating) because I've spent all of my free time with him and putting off having the life I want now while entertaining magical thinking/rescue fantasies. I have not been doing the things that make me really happy (sewing, painting, cooking, gardening, homemaking). So at least I have something to focus on now.
In four weeks, I am off work for 10 weeks and will have time to take care of my children and myself really deliciously!
Last night I dreamed that I got on a plane with my two little ones and ended up in Hawaii. It was surreal and gorgeous and we were all so thrilled and happy. I never remember my dreams--so I think this one was a gift from the universe.
I can do this!
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Join Date: Nov 2008
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How great you are reconnecting with yourself. I have been doing that too. It is amazing to rediscover things about yourself that you had forgotten over the years.
Sounds like you have many hobbies and interests that will bring you great joy and more time to spend with your kids.
Sounds like you have many hobbies and interests that will bring you great joy and more time to spend with your kids.
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,582
In the past 6 months I have hurt too. Months 1-3 were the worst. Then, it started getting easier. I really noticed about a month ago that I was feeling better. Not sad and depressed all the time. I am not a role model for this, but I am 6 months from where you are. It gets easier. It does hurt. Little by little it hurts less and less. You don't realy notice until one day you think hey I didn't cry at all today and I can erat again.
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