MissFixit

There are a few readings in the al-anon book One Day at a Time that confuse me.

For instance "Accept alcoholism as an illness." I understand the you didn't cause it, you can't control it or cure it part. If it is an illness that the A cannot control himself/herself, then how are they supposed to help themselves if they are the ones who are sick? The rock bottom is different for all, but if they are sick then do they know they are sick? Do they know when they are lying or behaving badly? Are they mentally ill as in they are insane when drinking?

Also, the patience we are supposed to have with the A confuses me too. What does that mean to have patience with them?

These are just some things I have been working out.

ToughChoices

I'm not a big fan of One Day at a Time.

I feel that it is an excellent text for someone who has chosen to stay and is looking for some help with acceptance and detachment. These skills are ESSENTIAL for sanity when sharing your life with an alcoholic.

However, as I'm choosing not to share my life with an alcoholic, I like the readings in Courage to Change much more.
I feel like it has a better bent toward MY recovery and MY issues instead of acceptance of HIS issues and patience with HIS progress.

Depends on what you're looking for - everyone's path is different and requires different tools. If ODAT's tools don't work well for you, there's no shame in that. Maybe open another box?

-TC

nowinsituation

While not official Al-Anon literature -- I recommend "The Language of Letting Go" by Melody Beattie. It is in the same "daily reading" format as "Courage to Change". I read both of those books each day; but really seem to get more out of "The Language of Letting Go". I guess it is more focused on codependency issues and not really at all focused on alcoholism issues.

MissFixit

TC,

Thank you. I didn't realize that ODAT focused on staying with the A, while Courage to Change focused on moving on with your life without the A. At least that is how I am interpreting your post. There have been several daily readings that have confused me as they say to accept that the alcoholic cannot help themselves. That is good to know, but then what should I do to help myself I always wondered. Was I supposed to not draw the line with L early in the summer, was our demise ultimately my fault for not being more patient? These were the questions that kept coming to me.

I read C to C too. Maybe I will read that and take ODAT with a grain of salt.




No Win,

Thank you too. I have not heard of Beattie's the Language of Letting Go, but will check it out.


Thank you

Astro

Readings from Language Of Letting Go are also available on Hazelden's website in the resource section, under "Thought For The Day" Hazelden -- Thought for the Day You can search for a reading by topic, a search on acceptance turned up quite a few.

freya

First of all, if you really want to understand the alcoholism-as-an-illness concept, I think that you probably need to both: 1) bring it up as a meeting topic at some meetings and hear what other Al Anons have to say about it and 2) get yourself a AA Big Book and read at least "The Doctor's Opinion" and the first 164 pages. Trying to grasp this concept just from Al Anon daily readers will be a very, very slow and, initially, a very confusing and not very thorough way to go about it. Why frustrate yourself when there are more appropriate resources out there for this particular purpose?

Next, as others have noted, ODAT can be rather "archaic" (I'm trying to be tactful here!) in some respects...most importantly in the respect that it often assumes an apparently condenscending attitude toward women. (Have you seen the entry about "The Thumb" yet??????????) I personally, do not find that it necessarily encourages or tries to push us toward staying with our As, but it was definitely written at a time when not doing so was a much more difficult and a much less socially acceptable choice than it is today -- and that definitely shows in it's content. Personally, if I'm in a good place emotionally, I can read it and take those aspects of it with a grain of salt and a sense of historical humor, but if I'm not in a good place and I know that that stuff will just p*ss me, then I just read a different reader that day.

freya

MissFixit

Thank you.

Freya,

I haven't looked at the Big Book. I was kind of reluctant to read it as it is for A's. I have read excepts posted here though.

Looking forward to reading about "The Thumb."

Thanks,
Miss

freya

Well, here's how I personally see it: The Big Book of Alcoholics' Anonymous is absolutely THE primary text of any 12 Step program and not reading it, or discouraging others from reading it, makes just about as much sense as a Christian not reading or discouraging others from reading The Old Testament.

And, in fact, for many years at the beginning of Al Anon, The Big Book was the text that was used at Al Anon meetings, too. My own sneaking suspicion is that the fact that we are now "forbidden" from using it at Al Anon meetings has a lot more to do with unresolved resentments and control issues on the part of whatever Al Anon's made that decision than it does with the importance and relevance of the text itself. (If you want to hear a great Al Anon speaker talk about the importance of the Big Book to her program, I highly recommend you look for some speaker CDs of Mary Pearl from North Little Rock, Arkansas -- aka: "The Big Book black-belt Al Anon")

I hope that you, as a relatively new Al Anon member, are being encouraged to learn all you can about the disease of Alcoholism -- what better way to do that than to go to the source?????

freya

JenT1968

I honestly, (from this point in my journey) think that the "disease" concept of alcoholism/substance abuse/co-dependence is such a harmful red herring to those who love an addicted person.

I spent ages going round this eddy, and revisitng it, because if its a disease then I should stay and look after them, they can't help it, how can I abandon someone who is ill??? others fear they are betraying their faith and their wedding vows. the loved one is a victim of disease, I am a victim, this is a "battle" blah blah. But it doesn't look like a disease: my gut screams: "THIS IS A CHOICE".

I'm sure its a helpful concept for parts of the medical profession and doubtless it is helpful to addicts in their recovery. but I think for us it can be a very unhelpful way of describing what is going on.

Now I am back to its a choice. as far as I am concerned its an addiction, which gives a person very limited control over their actions once a number of preliminary choices have been made, but its a choice nonetheless. I have compassion, but it doesn't alter my actions.

I'm not saying that's right: the way I view a thing doesn't alter its reality but it does help me to CHOOSE to do the things I need to do to protect me.

perhaps when I have sufficient distance I will be able to see the disease but right now I don't think it helps me to try.

escape artist

the way i see it, alcoholism is a compulsion. and to me a compulsion is like being stuck in a box on a spinning wheel, where it is very hard to get out.....the compulsion feeds the addiction. so to me in that light it is a very serious dis ease. and i definitely agree that any compulsion most likely is rooted in a "spiritually bereft" way of life. i did not say religious either. therefore it can also be considered a spiritual disease.
and being someone who has been on both sides of the addiction/codependence i realize that my spiritual health is most important in aiding others in their recovery (or not) of this disease. therefore as i work on myself and learn better ways of taking care of myself, which includes not judging the addict and throwing those angry bolts of impatience at them, not only does it allow serenity in my life, but it puts the onus back on them and their actions to reflect on themselves-not their projections of their anger onto me? does that make sense? yes, alcoholism is also a choice too, the choice as to when they decide to take that first drink, but after that the compulsion takes over hence they are stuck in a terrible disease. i read odat and c2c plus the acoa book and the hazeldon, and sometimes i read one page after another until i find the thing that touches my pain and helps me get a better perspective. they have been very instrumental in my recovery. i am sure you have also heard the "slogan" take what you want and leave the rest" same with the books imo.

MrsMagoo

I'm so glad you posted this. I just explained the other day to someone my confusion with that book also. Every morning while my shower is getting hot, I read The Language of Letting Go and One Day at a Time in Al-Anon and there are very conflicting messages. One tells you what to do to move forward with your life and the other tells you to empathize with the alcoholic and pretty much love them unconditionally because they are sick. I tend to like the Melody Beattie books better because they focus on me and I don't want to coddle my AH and live by example hoping that one day he'll choose MY way (the sober way). What happens to everybody and everything in between while we're sitting around lovingly waiting?

Anyway, thank you for asking the question.

bookwyrm

I found the model of alcoholism as a disease to be really useful, once I got my head around it.

I read the book 'Under the Influence'. It explains how my STBXAH could become an alcoholic when others round him didn't. He cannot help being an alcoholic. What he can change, though, is how he handles his disease.

This is where personal responsibility comes into it for me. Alcoholism is a disease, not an excuse! I only hold my STBXAH accountable for his behaviour, not for being an alcoholic. Its a fine distinction I know, but it helps me focus on the problems in our relationship - alcoholism in and of itself may be the red herring there!!

Does this make sense?

MrsMagoo

I understand that addicts brains are wired differently than ours but once that is known......I think it becomes a choice. Bottles and drugs don't just magically appear under their pillows at night and someone doesn't just leave a six pack at the doorstep in the morning like the milkman. It's a choice to walk into that store or pawn something and call the dealer.

kudzujean

I have that book, but I don't read it much.

I prefer "Courage to Change" and "Hope for Today."

"Hope for Today" was written by adult children of alcoholics. I'd say it's my favorite of the Al Anon daily readers.

spikedaball

I agree with MrsMagoo..once the disease has been diagnosed and the treatment is prescribed, the alcoholic has the choice to follow the recommendations or not. I feel that it's my role as the spouse is to help with the treatment of the disease, if the alcoholic wishes to be helped...

justanothrdrunk

I 2nd the idea about having a look at the Big Book of AA (there's a chapter in there just for spouses of As). Good info for all in there IMHO.

As far as those daily, "little books" (as I like to call them), in general I take those with a grain. Some of it speaks very deeply to me. Other stuff totally misses the mark. I take what I can and leave the rest.

justanothrdrunk

And really, the above is true for any disease. The insidious part about alcoholism is that the A (at least this A) generally doesn't think they need treatment and/or that the prescribed treatment won't help.

I've been to the doctor for plenty of things in the past. And never did I have such an aversion/doubt about the recommended treatment than I've had about alcoholism.

LaTeeDa

Makes perfect sense to me. This is how I look at it as well. It's the behavior that matters, not the disease.

If someone I loved had cancer, I wouldn't excuse them being irresponsible, inconsiderate, and abusive, just because they had a disease.

L

brundle

When I think of the alcoholic being "sick" I think of it more mentally. I mean aren't I kind of "sick" staying too long in this sub-standard emotionally abusive relationship? (Isn't that common in all addictive relationships?) I chose to be in recovery; but many times I didn't feel I chose to be co-dependent. It happened so slowly it was like I was confused for a long time and then I woke up one morning in this crazy life wondering how I got there.

When I see how easy it was for me to be "sick" I can then see how easy it is for him to be "sick". That helps me with the daily readings. It does not however help me in my daily dealing with my AH. I have MS (a real physical illness); I feel like crap most of the time. But you usually wouldn't know it, I don't abuse myself, my meds, others, or my life. I believe it's up to me to make my life the best I can make it, in spite of my illness. So I just can't "over look" my AH "illness" and all he does.

JenT1968

Whilst I fully understand Lateeda and anvillheads points, but respectfully disagree with some parts of them:

my point is that does it really matter to someone with codependent behaviours whether their significant others have diseases, addictions, are going through painful divorces, are failing their exams, have married people that aren't good for them.... ? I can become enmeshed in other people's problems no matter what they are and to get a better life for myself, I need to focus on me and my behaviour and motivations not other people's.

therefore if thinking that alcoholism is a disease helps you sleep at night and detach from another's behaviour: fab.

If it doesn't, don't waste another second of your precious life agonising over what causes your SO to act the way he does, there are so many other things to accept that aren't a matter of opinion, and that are focussed on your life.

Sorry Miss Fixit to highjack your thread: I don't get on with ODAT at all: mainly because I don't like the thought for a day format, I like a big long narrative and find Melody Beatties Codependent no more great for that.