OhBrother

Anyone else seen it?
I just picked it up from amazon last week.
It probably doesn't have any information that people on this forum aren't really well familiar with, but its pretty well done the way it ties together people from the courts, medicine, researchers, addicts, families, etc.
I found the parts that dealt with the physical changes to the brain really fascinating, as well as how even the slightest cues to the brain can trigger craving in a recovered addict..even though the stimulus might come and go be so quick that the addict isn't even aware of what's happening.

cassandra2

Ohbrother I really would like to hear what you learned about the effects on the brain with drug abuse.

OhBrother

Here's the parts I remember off the top of my head:
-there is an older, impulsive part of the brain that deals with just plain survival, and a newer, more evolved area that controls the impulsive part. One says 'we're hungry' and the other stops us from just grabbing food in the supermarket and eating it right there.
In addicts the controlling part of the brain doesn't work as well or at all, either because of the drugs or because an addict was born that way. In addition, because of the addiction the brain treats needing drugs as a survival issue, same as hunger. It steamrollers right over the self-control parts of the brain.

-in terms of relapse, they showed brain scans of a guy who'd constantly been failing to stay clean from crack, even though he's been trying really hard in rehab. While he was being scanned, they showed really brief flickers of images (pipes, his old neighbourhood, various drug paraphenalia,etc) that were too fast for anyone's eyes to catch, but his brain just "lit up". So they figure an addict's brains can get tempted to relapse without the addict even knowing why. He just gets an urge "out of nowhere". So the researchers figured that one way to help addicts stay clean is to learn what those triggers are for them and to help them to recognize the danger signs.

-there was a lot too on opiate receptors in the brain, and how it becomes dependent on drugs even just to function...until a user has stayed clean long enough for it to rewire itself to manage without the artificial high
-the hopeful thing in all of it was that ever doctor and researcher being interviewed said even after long periods of use the brain is still flexible enough to make big recoveries. The earlier treatment starts the better of course, and the risks of relapse would always be there for some.

cassandra2

Very interesting. I will have to look for that series. I kinda was hoping to gain a better understanding of how their brains work while active and then what happens after they stop using.

I learned from one of my instructors that after brain trauma ie: stroke, accidents, anything that disrupts the regular functioning of activity in the brain that the neuropatterns in the brain begin to build new pathways. Like when a stoke victim has lost the ability to talk thru therapy the person is able to relearn speech because the brain is building a new path to return the speech function.

I thought that was unbelievable. So I just wonder if drug/alcohol abuse is the same thing as a "trauma" and are the neuro patterns rebuilding there to.

I also would think it would be interesting to learn what is actually happening to the brain that causes the distinct drug behavior. I dunno call me strange just thought it would be interesting to know the hows and whys about the brain function

Thanks for the info....

OhBrother

That seems like a good comparison...addiction being like a stroke or an accident, at least as far as the brain patterns go. It wires itself to need the opiates/cocaine/alchohol to function. But the hopeful part is that, also like a stroke, its flexible enough to reverse the damage over time and build new pathways when a person stays clean long enough.
Knowing all this doesn't make dealing with the addict any easier, but at least it helps make some sense of the behaviour.
I got it from amazon for about $25, or you might also find it at the library. They also have a pretty detailed web page about the series at hbo.com.

cassandra2

Thanks. I will check out the site.

Hope seems like a distant memory for me today. I thought by learning all I could about addiction the effects on behavior and on the brain I could maybe accept it easier. Or have hope that things would get better for my ex. But then it just kinda makes me sad and hopeless. Its like watching the specials on pregnancy and how a certain star lined up with the sun and that has to happen in order to get pregnant. No, really though you would think after seeing how hard it is to conceive we would have a population shortage. Anyway my point is so many things have to line up perfectly for our addicts to A. hit rock bottom B. rock bottom not being death C. getting into a GOOD rehab or program D. working the program like the egyptians built the pryimads. and E. STAYING IN RECOVERY.

Seems like I could get hit by lightening before any of those things happen.....

OhBrother

Yep, I know what you mean. I've been following your other posts in the other threads about your ex.
Even knowing the 'whys' doesn't make the 'now what?' any easier. I take a bit of comfort though in knowing my sister at least isn't doing what she does just to spite us all. I actually felt more sorry for her after watching the dvds. The more I know about the whole addiction/rehab/relapse process, and knowing what I know about her, I can already see the part where she'll fall down: staying in recovery.

sleepygoat

I saw the series when it originally showed - about 2 years ago. I thought one of the most interesting things was that they said the followoing:

The addict who goes into treatment INVOLUNTARILY and does NOT want to stop using, has exactly the same chance of staying clean once treatment is completed and they leave as the addict who is begging for a treatment bed.

Wow! That really blows the whole "hitting bottom" thing out of the water, huh? They really stressed this throughout the series, as I remember - to get them into treamtment somehow was the big thing.

Unfortunately, for my AD, she goes in , but then leaves well before finishing any rehab program she's tried.

Overall, the series was more depressing than hopeful. I also get caught up in how hard it is for everything to work together for someone to get and stay clean (even for a little while). But then I must remember, we have a Power greater than the addicition. As an addict, I have a God who is more powerful than both me and my disease!! And so does my daughter. That's the only hope, if you ask me.

rozied

Oh Sleepygoat, I agree. The only way for them to get clean & stay clean is with their HP.

jerect

I just checked this book out at the library a couple of days ago but I have not had time to read it... maybe I will get the chance over the holiday..

The site is great... I learned a lot from the videos.

OhBrother

Sleepygoat: I also noticed that they frequently said an addict doesn't need to hit rock bottom to start treatment. I guess from a doctor's perspective that would be true: any treatment is better than no treatment, and even a month clean is better than no time clean.
They also made a point of showing that addicts that are forced into treatment via drug court had a lot of success. The threat of jail if they screwed up kept a lot of them clean and in the program, where others that relied on their own willpower and regular outpatient programs failed.
Maybe that would be some comfort to parents and spouses that consider calling in the police...it might just be what they need when all else fails.

ZombieWife

Really interesting premise. It's on Netflix, so I can add it to my queue.

drainedwife

Very interesting...
did they say anything about what choices the addict has during active use?
I mean, I feel for the teenagers and young adults who experiment with drugs and then get addicted..because we have almost all been there...(experimenting).some of us are lucky than others in that we did not become addicted.... However, what about the 40 year old grown ups who have a family to support and need be a role model for their children?? They should know better...and that is where I have a very hard time feeling for these addicts...AKA my AH!!!! Ok, so he choses to use when he has a family to support and kids to raise....and now that he is addcited, he cant stop because his brain wont let him...but he still has the CHOICE to get help, right?? and he chooses not too, mainly because he is in denial.... Also, he has a choice to not use in the house, where his wife and kids reside, but he chooses to use in the house not caring about the consquences that may occur....
I feel that his logical thinking has all but been thrown out the window...his thinking is no longer logical when it comes to his using, finances, being a responsible parent, etc....but then how come he can still make logical decisions at work, and perform well there???
Thanks for your help...

Chino

Because he knows consequences will be enforced?

cassandra2

You are where I was in thinking that they have a CHOICE. Initially yes, its a choice to pick up drugs but after there they become slaves to that addiction. I went to the HBO website and typed in drugs and all of this info comes up. The information is VERY interesting.

While I still feel knowing these things doesnt excuse the damage or their behavior it makes me feel better because my ex isnt PURPOSFULY doing these things.

To appreciate the grips of addiction, imagine a person that "wants to stop doing something and they cannot, despite catastrophic consequences," says Dr. Nora Volkow, director of the National Institute on Drug Abuse. "We're not speaking of little consequences. These are catastrophic. And yet they cannot control their behavior."

Addiction is a chronic, but treatable, brain disorder. People who are addicted cannot control their need for alcohol or other drugs, even in the face of negative health, social or legal consequences. This lack of control is the result of alcohol- or drug-induced changes in the brain. Those changes, in turn, cause behavior changes.

Myths About Addiction

1. Addicts are bad, crazy, or stupid.
Evolving research is demonstrating that addicts are not bad people who need to get good, crazy people who need to get sane, or stupid people who need education. Addicts have a brain disease that goes beyond their use of drugs.

2. Addiction is a willpower problem.
This is an old belief, probably based upon wanting to blame addicts for using drugs to excess. This myth is reinforced by the observation that most treatments for alcoholism and addiction are behavioral (talk) therapies, which are perceived to build self-control. But addiction occurs in an area of the brain called the mesolimbic dopamine system that is not under conscious control.

There are more but I thought that these myths best suited the topic. Again, not excusing the behavior but just trying to better understand.

Hope that helps a little drained...

copperpenny

Excellent discussion. I have seen the series, I truly believe the brain changes that occur. Like others posting here it seems more baffling to me about how we treat addicts, in rehabs, hospitals, outpt. etc. My ASD has been in rehabs, completed them and had 21 mos. and 15 mos. clean. She told us on a few occassions that she was driving and just felt pulled to the hood with no previous intentions. Drug court, lost total custody of her daughter etc. I know my ASD loves her daughter and I must believe a loving mom would not intentionally do what she has done, love the addict, hate the disease. I believe in HP but some of these long-term addicts lose faith in their HP. Drug tx needs to change !!! I don't have the answers but what we are doing is not successful. I do think medications are needed, so many with psych problems that are not addressed. Prayers for all who still suffer.:praying

atalose

I agree with chino, he knows consequences will be enfored there.

OhBrother

I lent the DVDs to my sister today, who is 2 weeks into her current bout of rehab. Its almost funny that I thought a) I hope she doesn't sell them and b) would watching hours of addiction programming...I don't know...trigger cravings or something?
I hope she'll watch it and see's not uniquely messed up and that there are explanations for a lot of what she's dealt with.

drainedwife

well, although it is a disease that he cannot control, he can control getting help. he does have that choice...he also has a choice to tell me the truth and not lie about using and try to make me feel like the crazy one. also, just because he has this disease and maybe also a mental illness of some nature, doesnt mean that i should have to live with what comes with it....like abuse (seperate issue but seems to come out when he uses), not being a good dad, bring illegal drugs into the house, financially worries, etc....