Should I stay or should I go now?
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Join Date: Aug 2007
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Should I stay or should I go now?
I think this question has been asked, well *many* times at least here! I'm not looking for the answer here, however trying to put what's in my head into words is helpful to me, and any advice or experiance that anyone can share is welcome, IYKWIM.
I talked to DH at the end of July (ish) and said that I wasn't able to live with his drinking any more. That I wasn't able to cope with it. He was annoyed (I think, it's hard to know), but didn't drink between then and the weekend before last. He drank on the Sunday night, and Monday evening I moved out to the spare bedroom. Part of me feels that this has been going on long enough, that it is time to make a change. Part of me is screaming 'what have you done!!!!!!!!'.
There are things I have to deal with apart from all this. I've recently returned to work after maternity leave. I am not very happy in my job, which is all down to me and my attitude, but I'm trying to get my head around that at the moment. I also don't think I'm being a very good mother to my kids (3). I feel like I don't know what to deal with first.
Apart from that the logistics of seperating are boggling my mind. DH isn't a 'bad' alcoholic, he's intelligent, kind and I love him a lot. I did the self test at the top of the forum a while ago and I only answered yes to six of the questions. When asked by a marriage counsellor I found it hard to outline the problem I have with his drinking, I FEEL that it's a huge issue, but I find it very hard to put into words what the problem is. We have the potential for a really great marriage (yeah, I know, 'potential').
OK, on to the logistics. DH is a SAHD. I don't want to support him indefinitely, he is more intelligent and better educated than me, why should I? How do we manage childcare? I can afford to buy him out of the house, but will he agree? How do we manage childcare (the kids have always been looked after by him). We only have one car (in his name), should I look for another now that will take the three kids, to put into my name? We only have one credit card, should I cancel it and get one myself? We just have one joint account, should I open another account? Should I wait to see how things turn out, or should I do something? Am I pushing him too hard? After drinking on Sunday, I made an appointment with a marriage counsellor on the Wed night, we have another session in a weeks time.
I guess I'm not ready to stay, and not ready to go yet. Like I said, there is no abuse involved, not even sure if he's a 'real' alcoholic. Now that I am in the spare bedroom, part of me want's to go back to normal, and part of me wants to keep going.
I talked to DH at the end of July (ish) and said that I wasn't able to live with his drinking any more. That I wasn't able to cope with it. He was annoyed (I think, it's hard to know), but didn't drink between then and the weekend before last. He drank on the Sunday night, and Monday evening I moved out to the spare bedroom. Part of me feels that this has been going on long enough, that it is time to make a change. Part of me is screaming 'what have you done!!!!!!!!'.
There are things I have to deal with apart from all this. I've recently returned to work after maternity leave. I am not very happy in my job, which is all down to me and my attitude, but I'm trying to get my head around that at the moment. I also don't think I'm being a very good mother to my kids (3). I feel like I don't know what to deal with first.
Apart from that the logistics of seperating are boggling my mind. DH isn't a 'bad' alcoholic, he's intelligent, kind and I love him a lot. I did the self test at the top of the forum a while ago and I only answered yes to six of the questions. When asked by a marriage counsellor I found it hard to outline the problem I have with his drinking, I FEEL that it's a huge issue, but I find it very hard to put into words what the problem is. We have the potential for a really great marriage (yeah, I know, 'potential').
OK, on to the logistics. DH is a SAHD. I don't want to support him indefinitely, he is more intelligent and better educated than me, why should I? How do we manage childcare? I can afford to buy him out of the house, but will he agree? How do we manage childcare (the kids have always been looked after by him). We only have one car (in his name), should I look for another now that will take the three kids, to put into my name? We only have one credit card, should I cancel it and get one myself? We just have one joint account, should I open another account? Should I wait to see how things turn out, or should I do something? Am I pushing him too hard? After drinking on Sunday, I made an appointment with a marriage counsellor on the Wed night, we have another session in a weeks time.
I guess I'm not ready to stay, and not ready to go yet. Like I said, there is no abuse involved, not even sure if he's a 'real' alcoholic. Now that I am in the spare bedroom, part of me want's to go back to normal, and part of me wants to keep going.
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Join Date: Jan 2006
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Posts: 6,278
I learned (the hard way a few times) that if I am unclear on what to do, it's best to wait for some clarity before making a decision. It sounds like you have a lot going on in your life, plus maybe a lot of chatter going on inside your head. I know what that feels like.
A couple of things that helped me sort it all out:
1) Individual counseling. It started out as marriage counseling, but he was unwilling to go so I continued by myself. It helped me more than I can express. Maybe a counselor for just you instead of/in addition to the couples counselor?
2) Finding some time just for me. Not easy with children, I know. Sometimes just a few hours alone to journal/contemplate/meditate can be helpful in finding clarity.
Take care,
L
A couple of things that helped me sort it all out:
1) Individual counseling. It started out as marriage counseling, but he was unwilling to go so I continued by myself. It helped me more than I can express. Maybe a counselor for just you instead of/in addition to the couples counselor?
2) Finding some time just for me. Not easy with children, I know. Sometimes just a few hours alone to journal/contemplate/meditate can be helpful in finding clarity.
Take care,
L
Yield beautiful changes
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: A home filled with love
Posts: 1,698
Welcome to the forum!
Sounds like you are feeling a little bit overwhelmed right now - heck, I felt a little stressed just reading your post!
Breathe.
Go slow.
I'll try and share a little bit of what's worked for me.
I am now separated from my husband of 7 years. We have one child together.
When I really started to get the impression that the drinking wasn't going to be changing anytime soon (after MUCH effort on my part), I set to work on the task of disentangling my financial situation from my husband's.
In this order:
Opened separate bank account.
Opened separate savings account.
Applied for my own credit card (my name only).
Paid off my car.
Removed myself from joint accounts.
All of this occurred while I still lived with AH and enjoyed his company. No earth-shattering announcements of "It's Finished!" were required to take these steps, and they gave me incredible peace of mind.
When the time for earth-shattering announcements came, my ducks were in a row.
It sucks that you're not enjoying work so much, right now, but a job that can support you and and your children if you have to make some tough changes is blessing in many ways. One less thing to worry about!
You can talk to a lawyer now, even if you don't want to leave. You can tour some after-school programs and daycare centers to check out your options.
One step at a time.
Take care and keep on posting!
-TC
Sounds like you are feeling a little bit overwhelmed right now - heck, I felt a little stressed just reading your post!
Breathe.
Go slow.
I'll try and share a little bit of what's worked for me.
I am now separated from my husband of 7 years. We have one child together.
When I really started to get the impression that the drinking wasn't going to be changing anytime soon (after MUCH effort on my part), I set to work on the task of disentangling my financial situation from my husband's.
In this order:
Opened separate bank account.
Opened separate savings account.
Applied for my own credit card (my name only).
Paid off my car.
Removed myself from joint accounts.
All of this occurred while I still lived with AH and enjoyed his company. No earth-shattering announcements of "It's Finished!" were required to take these steps, and they gave me incredible peace of mind.
When the time for earth-shattering announcements came, my ducks were in a row.
It sucks that you're not enjoying work so much, right now, but a job that can support you and and your children if you have to make some tough changes is blessing in many ways. One less thing to worry about!
You can talk to a lawyer now, even if you don't want to leave. You can tour some after-school programs and daycare centers to check out your options.
One step at a time.
Take care and keep on posting!
-TC
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 72
Thank you! yes I have made an appointment for regular counselling, I've been to two or three apointments already. yes there is a lot going on. I'm feeling strangely calm about this whole situation, I may be raving, but i am learning a lot by lurking on this board. it's very helpful to see what worked/works for others. i keep saying it isn't too bad, but i also recognise DH in many of the posts here.
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: MO
Posts: 743
Some advice I was given long ago before I ever found this place was "if it's a problem for you, it's a problem". Unfortunately I ignored that advice and the gut feeling I had. Alcoholism is progressive, so if you are able to detach and stop trying to control while taking the steps needed to take care of yourself and your children in case things do spiral downward, you will be in a much better place than many of us are.
If things never do progress and you decide it's how YOU want life to look for yourself and your children, you'll still be better off.
If things never do progress and you decide it's how YOU want life to look for yourself and your children, you'll still be better off.
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 266
First off if you are even thinking about leaving him. You should not move make him move. You need to get a bank account in your name only, get a credit card in your name, put the car in your name, find out if you can find a daycare center close to you. As for your DH he will have to give you money for any of the kids that are his.
To talk to a lawyer the first time it is free. Sounds like you have already made up your mind about what you are going to do.
Start by getting all ducks in a row.
To talk to a lawyer the first time it is free. Sounds like you have already made up your mind about what you are going to do.
Start by getting all ducks in a row.
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 72
LaTeeDa, Tough Choices, blessed 4X, Wooforever, thank you for your replies. It's given me much food for thought. I don't have time to reply properly now, I'll post back later.
What I really want is for him to see that I'm serious, start working with me and we have a lovely life together
. However, I'm not willing to wait for that any more...
Edited to add, oddly enough, when I think of what I want to do, what I should do, what I'd like him to do, I feel quite panicky. When I think that if nothing changes we will have to seperate, I feel sad, but calm. This is when I start thinking of the steps that I should take, logicly, if seperating is what I will do.
What I really want is for him to see that I'm serious, start working with me and we have a lovely life together
. However, I'm not willing to wait for that any more...Edited to add, oddly enough, when I think of what I want to do, what I should do, what I'd like him to do, I feel quite panicky. When I think that if nothing changes we will have to seperate, I feel sad, but calm. This is when I start thinking of the steps that I should take, logicly, if seperating is what I will do.
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 72
Yet another question that occurs to me (formulating and asking the questions is enormously helpful to me, thanks for letting me waffle), is what should I do about a car?
If we stay together then what I want to get is a cheap little car to take me in and out of work, cheap to buy, cheap to run. It doesn't need to be able to take all of us.
If we seperate then I would like a bigger car, to take myself and the three children around in comfort. My oldest is 4, so we are only starting the afterschool activitites, and it would be nice to be able to offer a lift to friends (plus this means in time of emergency I can ask friends parents to return the favour).
If we stay together then what I want to get is a cheap little car to take me in and out of work, cheap to buy, cheap to run. It doesn't need to be able to take all of us.
If we seperate then I would like a bigger car, to take myself and the three children around in comfort. My oldest is 4, so we are only starting the afterschool activitites, and it would be nice to be able to offer a lift to friends (plus this means in time of emergency I can ask friends parents to return the favour).
Yield beautiful changes
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: A home filled with love
Posts: 1,698
Originally Posted by Techie1701 
Sorry, another post here! If I go about opening new bank accounts, should I let him know? Should I get the statements delivered to my work address, or get them sent home?
I told my husband about the financial steps that I was taking (in the interest of honesty - trying not to be sneaky), and he totally freaked out on me.
It all eventually calmed down, but, man oh man, there were some conversations going on that night that I NEVER want to have again.
When you start to change things up, understand that he may feel very threatened. I think I was kind of hoping that my husband would just take off the "alcoholic hat" off and be a sane and reasonable person with whom I could discuss finances.
Yeah - that didn't happen.
I was afraid of my husband's emotional response (and the guilt that I tend to feel when he has an emotional response), but I wasn't afraid of him physically. If physical abuse has ever been part of the dynamic in your marriage, I would exercise a great deal of caution in exposing your plans.
Just so you know - I told him upfront, my statements came to our mutual home (while I lived there), and, in the end, it worked out for me.
As far as the car goes, I would get the larger car. If you split, you're set. If you stay, you're comfortable (albeit with a larger car payment).
If you get the smaller car you're still going to be in a situation where your comfort and convenience is dependent upon your ability to live with your husband. That, for me, was a very stressful situation to be in - I felt like I was giving control of my destiny over to him.
Let us know how it's going!
-TC
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 4,290
Originally Posted by Techie1701
Sorry, another post here! If I go about opening new bank accounts, should I let him know? Should I get the statements delivered to my work address, or get them sent home?
Personally, I would not tell him about the individual account. You would be doing that to protect yourself and telling him takes away some of that protection. It's none of his business really is it?
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Originally Posted by Barbara52
Personally, I would not tell him about the individual account. You would be doing that to protect yourself and telling him takes away some of that protection. It's none of his business really is it?
If we seperate, then no, it's none of his business.
All this is slightly complicated by the fact that he doesn't work outside the home, and so has no income.
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: St. Louis, Mo
Posts: 72
I can't offer you any advice, but I can tell you what I did and what I have been advised to do by others in Al Anon.
1) If you are unsure what you want to do, don't do anything right now. Get into Al-Anon and wait at least a year before making life changing decisions (about marriage vs. separation)
2) I opened my own savings account that he is not aware of at all. I call it my "emergency fund" and it has also served as a vacation fund this past summer when all was well. I always make sure I have enough in there to "get out fast" if I have to. For me right now that is $1800.
3) I kept our joint account, but opened my own checking account. I run all my income through my personal checking account and run his income through the joint account then once it is available for use, I transfer to my own checking account. I only write checks of any kind (for bills, etc) on my personal account. This way, I know the money will always be there and the checks won't bounce because he has no access to it. Keep in mind, I handle all finances. He knew I opened my own account and gave me a really hard time about it for about a year, but finally I was able to get the point across that if he wanted to stay married, that is the only way I felt comfortable and I guess he accepted it. I also called his bluff by offering to let him pay all the bills and handle the finances and he refused because he just can't handle that.
4) I felt that it was a little "unfair" for me to be socking money away in a savings account for "just me". So, to make myself feel better about it, I opened savings accounts for the children and I put "his share" in their accounts. I have all our accounts set up so that if I die, he does have access to them. (You never know if you will live to see the next day, and I don't want to leave him and the kids high and dry).
5) All my statements are paperless. I do all banking online.
6) We both had our own cars going into the marriage, and I have traded in my car since married for a van (we have 4 kids) which is still in my name only. This way, if anything ever happens and I feel like i need to 'get out" I have the vehicle to haul the kids and he has his own car so he's not left high and dry. However, I know that if I ever have to get out on my own, I will not be able to afford a very big house, because the van payment is rather high.
7) And probably the most important, take care of you first. You can't help your kids or anyone else if you are not even able to float. Someone in al-anon put it to me like this...if you are on an airplane and have children traveling with you, your first instinct if the oxygen masks dropped in an emergency would be to put one on your children. But, instead, you should put it on yourself first, because if you don't have enough air you wont have time to get the masks on your kids.
Hope this helps. Hang in there, and take it one day at a time.
1) If you are unsure what you want to do, don't do anything right now. Get into Al-Anon and wait at least a year before making life changing decisions (about marriage vs. separation)
2) I opened my own savings account that he is not aware of at all. I call it my "emergency fund" and it has also served as a vacation fund this past summer when all was well. I always make sure I have enough in there to "get out fast" if I have to. For me right now that is $1800.
3) I kept our joint account, but opened my own checking account. I run all my income through my personal checking account and run his income through the joint account then once it is available for use, I transfer to my own checking account. I only write checks of any kind (for bills, etc) on my personal account. This way, I know the money will always be there and the checks won't bounce because he has no access to it. Keep in mind, I handle all finances. He knew I opened my own account and gave me a really hard time about it for about a year, but finally I was able to get the point across that if he wanted to stay married, that is the only way I felt comfortable and I guess he accepted it. I also called his bluff by offering to let him pay all the bills and handle the finances and he refused because he just can't handle that.
4) I felt that it was a little "unfair" for me to be socking money away in a savings account for "just me". So, to make myself feel better about it, I opened savings accounts for the children and I put "his share" in their accounts. I have all our accounts set up so that if I die, he does have access to them. (You never know if you will live to see the next day, and I don't want to leave him and the kids high and dry).
5) All my statements are paperless. I do all banking online.
6) We both had our own cars going into the marriage, and I have traded in my car since married for a van (we have 4 kids) which is still in my name only. This way, if anything ever happens and I feel like i need to 'get out" I have the vehicle to haul the kids and he has his own car so he's not left high and dry. However, I know that if I ever have to get out on my own, I will not be able to afford a very big house, because the van payment is rather high.
7) And probably the most important, take care of you first. You can't help your kids or anyone else if you are not even able to float. Someone in al-anon put it to me like this...if you are on an airplane and have children traveling with you, your first instinct if the oxygen masks dropped in an emergency would be to put one on your children. But, instead, you should put it on yourself first, because if you don't have enough air you wont have time to get the masks on your kids.
Hope this helps. Hang in there, and take it one day at a time.
Rediscovering myself
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 231
Your life is exactly like mine except I only have one child and you have three. Stay in the spare bedroom. The separation helps you see things more clearly. And worst case... what you spend a few weeks in the other room... so what. Note the first night you spent in the spare bedroom. That's your date of separation.
Start a journal. Documents what he does or doesn't do. How much time he spends interacting with the kids, household chores, etc. Document liquor consumption, photos with dates if possible. Photo beer cans in the garbage, the liquor bottles going down, whatever.
Get the kids in preschool or something. It looks bad to the court that you continue to 'trust' him with the care of your children though you know he's drinking. It's a tough decision to make but it's for the best.
I'm having my checking account statements sent to my parents. They live 3 hours away, but I have online checking. Don't tell him about the checking/savings account.
Start a journal. Documents what he does or doesn't do. How much time he spends interacting with the kids, household chores, etc. Document liquor consumption, photos with dates if possible. Photo beer cans in the garbage, the liquor bottles going down, whatever.
Get the kids in preschool or something. It looks bad to the court that you continue to 'trust' him with the care of your children though you know he's drinking. It's a tough decision to make but it's for the best.
I'm having my checking account statements sent to my parents. They live 3 hours away, but I have online checking. Don't tell him about the checking/savings account.
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OK, this is an update of sorts, it's mainly to get my own head straight, but it's also to reply to the points made. Thanks to everyone who has contributed, whether I take your advice or not, I appreciate you taking the time to reply, and even saying 'no' to a suggestion is helpful, it means that I'm making a decision instead of going around in circles, IYKWIM.
OK, I've started to make steps towards sorting out my personal situation. I am not living in the US, so some steps may be different to what you can/should do, but I can put on my big girl panties and work out what's behind a persons advice, and apply it to the laws of my own country :bounce
I have gone about opening up a new checking account and credit card. If we stay together then I think it might be time to seperate finances anyway, if we seperate then I'm ready to go.
I'm going to start looking at cars at the weekend. I am still somewhat unclear about what type of a car I want, but I have a clearer idea of what to look for. There is no rush, if I need a car quickly I can get one, but I want to take my time and pick one that I like. I have savings which mean I can buy a car for cash. Not a big car or a new car, but I won't be stuck without transport.
I've made an appointment to see a laywer on Monday, straight after IC. It isn't common for them to give one appointment for free, but this one agreed! This is an information gathering session. I don't want to stay because of a fear of the unknown, neither do I want to make a rash decision without knowing the implications. FWIW, when I decided to ring around, I had a sheet of paper with details of lawyers on it, that I had assembled in October last year. I keep thinking it isn't that bad, and it really isn't, but I've been unhappy for longer than I realise...
I may sound very stressed and scattered, but I feel so calm. I've been worried about things for a loooong time, and now that I'm doing something about them, it's all much easier. I'm also finding work to be OK, the main problem has been that I can't concentrate, but I'm finding that easier now. I'm also finding work a 'refuge', much less stressful than being at home.
I must start going to al-anon. Again, I have about three sheets printed off with the weekly schedule of meetings in my area on them, which have been printed off over the last few years.
Money wise, we are doing well. He manages the money and does a really good job with it. How it will be if we seperate, I do not know.
CbC, I'm familiar with the oxygen mask analogy, but it bears repeating!! It's very true, and hard to remember sometimes.
justaboutus, I'm not sure about childcare arrangements. He has been looking after all of them since I went back to work, he is very good with them. He only ever drank twice when he was on his own with them, in the evening when I was due home some years ago, and if he ever does that again I will Murder Him!! Well, not really, but we had words about it and he hasn't done it again. If he does it again, I'm out of there and the kids come too. No compromise on that one.
Like I said, I'm in a different juristiction, so I'm not sure if the advice you've given me about journalling, seperation etc. is valid here, but I shall ask the lawyer on Monday.
OK, I've started to make steps towards sorting out my personal situation. I am not living in the US, so some steps may be different to what you can/should do, but I can put on my big girl panties and work out what's behind a persons advice, and apply it to the laws of my own country :bounce
I have gone about opening up a new checking account and credit card. If we stay together then I think it might be time to seperate finances anyway, if we seperate then I'm ready to go.
I'm going to start looking at cars at the weekend. I am still somewhat unclear about what type of a car I want, but I have a clearer idea of what to look for. There is no rush, if I need a car quickly I can get one, but I want to take my time and pick one that I like. I have savings which mean I can buy a car for cash. Not a big car or a new car, but I won't be stuck without transport.
I've made an appointment to see a laywer on Monday, straight after IC. It isn't common for them to give one appointment for free, but this one agreed! This is an information gathering session. I don't want to stay because of a fear of the unknown, neither do I want to make a rash decision without knowing the implications. FWIW, when I decided to ring around, I had a sheet of paper with details of lawyers on it, that I had assembled in October last year. I keep thinking it isn't that bad, and it really isn't, but I've been unhappy for longer than I realise...
I may sound very stressed and scattered, but I feel so calm. I've been worried about things for a loooong time, and now that I'm doing something about them, it's all much easier. I'm also finding work to be OK, the main problem has been that I can't concentrate, but I'm finding that easier now. I'm also finding work a 'refuge', much less stressful than being at home.
I must start going to al-anon. Again, I have about three sheets printed off with the weekly schedule of meetings in my area on them, which have been printed off over the last few years.
Money wise, we are doing well. He manages the money and does a really good job with it. How it will be if we seperate, I do not know.
CbC, I'm familiar with the oxygen mask analogy, but it bears repeating!! It's very true, and hard to remember sometimes.
justaboutus, I'm not sure about childcare arrangements. He has been looking after all of them since I went back to work, he is very good with them. He only ever drank twice when he was on his own with them, in the evening when I was due home some years ago, and if he ever does that again I will Murder Him!! Well, not really, but we had words about it and he hasn't done it again. If he does it again, I'm out of there and the kids come too. No compromise on that one.
Like I said, I'm in a different juristiction, so I'm not sure if the advice you've given me about journalling, seperation etc. is valid here, but I shall ask the lawyer on Monday.
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