New...looking for wisdom
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 22
New...looking for wisdom
Hi all - I have been lurking for several weeks - really want to say thank you to all of you as your posts have been so helpful/inspiring. As a result of discovering this board I have read all of the "stickies", 2 of Melody BEattie's books, and some other AA and Al-Anon materials. Sadly, I recognize myself in many things, espec. the "codie" stuff, but it is all really new so I am trying to get the hang of all of this.
I have a specific issue that I could use some guidance on - it is an ongoing problem, probably for the past 10 years or more. I am one of 3 children, and I am particularly close to my oldest sister. Our parents have been dead for more than 20 years; we are now all in our 40s and early 50s. Our family does not have a history of alcohol problems (surprise!!!) but I believe that my mother suffered from mild to moderate depression which she never got treatment for...
My sister is married to a man with both alcohol and narcotics issues (vicodin, oxycontin, oxyodone, methadone) - she did not know this at the time of their marriage (I think the drug stuff has only developed in the last 5 years or so, although he has always had a tendency to drink too much)...he is the son of an A (now deceased) who abandoned the family...my brother-in-law has never been good at holding a steady job but he is GREAT at spending money - lots of expensive clothes/cars/etc...he married my sister (she was pregnant) 17 years ago and they have 4 children. SHe is a nurse, works nights, and is the ONLY financial support to the family. They are very close to not making ends meet - lots of calls from creditors, had the elec. turned off, etc. She is also the only parent, basically - bro-in-law basically does his own thing, doesn't go to the kids' soccer games, etc. because he finds them "boring". He sleeps on the couch a great deal. She does all the driving, running around, etc. She is the mainstay. He is very troubled and not very nice to be around, but to my knowledge he has never been physically abusive, nor has he cheated on her. He displays some pretty typical behavior for an addict: his problems are everyone else's fault, he can't keep a job because his boss/the economy/the client/the owner didn't like him or was a jerk, etc. We live over 3,000 miles away and the last time he was here he was in withdrawals from suboxone (without telling anyone) and the visit was a nightmare.
Sorry about the length of this - here's the main point: 2 of my nephews were here visiting - great kids, both teenagers. ONe night they broke down crying and told me how bad everything is at home and how much they hate it there...he is drunk or out of it, doesn't work, doesn't eat dinner with them,does/says embarrassing things, etc. I talked with them for a long time about addiction as a disease, the 3 c's, etc. etc. and about the possibility of accessing Alateen mtgs. Their dad had been in a 4 day detox last year which they knew about but never pursued AA or long term treatment - stopped drinking for a while but went back with a vengeance. My sister has threatened several times to call a lawyer but never follows through - feels she is Catholic and cannot violate a sacrament, nor can she ask him to leave because he "has nowhere to go"...whatever friends he had who were non-druggies/alcoholics have long since pulled away from him, and his family has basically had enough of him as well...my sister has made bargains with him like letting him buy a motorcycle if he stays sober (obviously, she has the money in the family), letting him buy a used BMW car if he gets a job - he never follows through, and neither does she...it's like a crazy manipulative dance that they do together. SHe has toldme privately that she is very unhappy in her marriage but that the kids make her happy and as long as she can keep them involved in sports and make sure that they get good grades, that she will hang in there because she doesn't want the kids coming from a "divorced home".
my sister has told the kids to keep things private, not to tell me or others on the outside what is happening at home because we won't "understand". And she is right!!! I don't understand how you could put your own fear or shame or guilt or codependency before the emotional health and wellbeing of your own children. I don't understand how she is encouraging her kids (17, 15, 11 and 7, although the 2 youngest "don't know that anything is wrong" accordng to my sister) - to keep secrets instead of putting things out in the open and getting help to get healthy, even if their dad can't or won't right now.
My problem? I feel that I am getting sucked into this, and that in fact, I am a codie for my sister. Can I just stand by while she lets this guy completely suck the life out of her???? Can I just stand by while my nieces and nephews grow up thinking that this is what happens in a marriage? WHere is the line where I walk away from all of this - except I love my nieces and nephews and worry about them constantly, along with my sister.
Any input, advice, comments, help are appreciated! It's just nice to be heard, and again, thank you all for your continued wisdom.....
I have a specific issue that I could use some guidance on - it is an ongoing problem, probably for the past 10 years or more. I am one of 3 children, and I am particularly close to my oldest sister. Our parents have been dead for more than 20 years; we are now all in our 40s and early 50s. Our family does not have a history of alcohol problems (surprise!!!) but I believe that my mother suffered from mild to moderate depression which she never got treatment for...
My sister is married to a man with both alcohol and narcotics issues (vicodin, oxycontin, oxyodone, methadone) - she did not know this at the time of their marriage (I think the drug stuff has only developed in the last 5 years or so, although he has always had a tendency to drink too much)...he is the son of an A (now deceased) who abandoned the family...my brother-in-law has never been good at holding a steady job but he is GREAT at spending money - lots of expensive clothes/cars/etc...he married my sister (she was pregnant) 17 years ago and they have 4 children. SHe is a nurse, works nights, and is the ONLY financial support to the family. They are very close to not making ends meet - lots of calls from creditors, had the elec. turned off, etc. She is also the only parent, basically - bro-in-law basically does his own thing, doesn't go to the kids' soccer games, etc. because he finds them "boring". He sleeps on the couch a great deal. She does all the driving, running around, etc. She is the mainstay. He is very troubled and not very nice to be around, but to my knowledge he has never been physically abusive, nor has he cheated on her. He displays some pretty typical behavior for an addict: his problems are everyone else's fault, he can't keep a job because his boss/the economy/the client/the owner didn't like him or was a jerk, etc. We live over 3,000 miles away and the last time he was here he was in withdrawals from suboxone (without telling anyone) and the visit was a nightmare.
Sorry about the length of this - here's the main point: 2 of my nephews were here visiting - great kids, both teenagers. ONe night they broke down crying and told me how bad everything is at home and how much they hate it there...he is drunk or out of it, doesn't work, doesn't eat dinner with them,does/says embarrassing things, etc. I talked with them for a long time about addiction as a disease, the 3 c's, etc. etc. and about the possibility of accessing Alateen mtgs. Their dad had been in a 4 day detox last year which they knew about but never pursued AA or long term treatment - stopped drinking for a while but went back with a vengeance. My sister has threatened several times to call a lawyer but never follows through - feels she is Catholic and cannot violate a sacrament, nor can she ask him to leave because he "has nowhere to go"...whatever friends he had who were non-druggies/alcoholics have long since pulled away from him, and his family has basically had enough of him as well...my sister has made bargains with him like letting him buy a motorcycle if he stays sober (obviously, she has the money in the family), letting him buy a used BMW car if he gets a job - he never follows through, and neither does she...it's like a crazy manipulative dance that they do together. SHe has toldme privately that she is very unhappy in her marriage but that the kids make her happy and as long as she can keep them involved in sports and make sure that they get good grades, that she will hang in there because she doesn't want the kids coming from a "divorced home".
my sister has told the kids to keep things private, not to tell me or others on the outside what is happening at home because we won't "understand". And she is right!!! I don't understand how you could put your own fear or shame or guilt or codependency before the emotional health and wellbeing of your own children. I don't understand how she is encouraging her kids (17, 15, 11 and 7, although the 2 youngest "don't know that anything is wrong" accordng to my sister) - to keep secrets instead of putting things out in the open and getting help to get healthy, even if their dad can't or won't right now.
My problem? I feel that I am getting sucked into this, and that in fact, I am a codie for my sister. Can I just stand by while she lets this guy completely suck the life out of her???? Can I just stand by while my nieces and nephews grow up thinking that this is what happens in a marriage? WHere is the line where I walk away from all of this - except I love my nieces and nephews and worry about them constantly, along with my sister.
Any input, advice, comments, help are appreciated! It's just nice to be heard, and again, thank you all for your continued wisdom.....
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 4,290
Its is hard when you see a family being torn apart and those in the immediate situation want to keep it secret. Lord do I know what that was like growing up! It's part of why I am who I am and married an alcoholic myself.
Have you tried talking to your sister? Letting her know you know what is going on, that her children are being harmed by living like this? She may not be willing to listen. You may want to suggest she talk to her priest about her life and get advice that way.
Bottom line is you can't of course make her "see the light" and can't make her change. But reaching out with understanding and caring may open the door, may help her understand she isn't alone. I know when I was really stuck in the madness of an alcoholic marriage I thought I was alone and no one would understand.
Have you tried talking to your sister? Letting her know you know what is going on, that her children are being harmed by living like this? She may not be willing to listen. You may want to suggest she talk to her priest about her life and get advice that way.
Bottom line is you can't of course make her "see the light" and can't make her change. But reaching out with understanding and caring may open the door, may help her understand she isn't alone. I know when I was really stuck in the madness of an alcoholic marriage I thought I was alone and no one would understand.
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: MO
Posts: 743
Welcome Limerick! I too am new and learning a great deal from SR. Nurses are often co-dependent....that need to rescue. Do you think your sister would be at all receptive to visiting the site and reading other's stories? It was when I stumbled across this place that I first started to look at the dysfunction in my life and it took several months of lurking before I could jump in. Coming here helps me identify with others at a time when I have felt so alone. If she would be at a place where she is ready I'm sure she would be welcomed with open arms.....the people here are amazing!
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Chicago IL
Posts: 184
I have the most loving and non-judgmental mom and siblings that a person could ask for. Just knowing I can count on them for support and emotional encouragement makes me a stronger person. The bonus is the unconditional love between them and my boys (14 & 16). They talk to my sister about everything going on in their lives. It makes me feel better knowing they have that security with someone who loves them almost as much as I do!...Let her know how important her and the kids are to you...that may be just what she needs.
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,103
I’m sure your sister feels she is doing the right thing for her children. I’m sure she feels that by keeping “family” in tact her kids will be better off. It’s very hard to get people like that to see/view things from any other perspective then their own. She sounds like she has a strong belief system and it may be impossible for her to open up that system to anything else.
Your sister is equally un-healthy as is her alcoholic/drug addict husband. She probably doesn’t even know how un-healthy she has become, she most likely will become as defensive as her husband does if confronted.
If you can’t talk to her at least keep the lines of communication open between you and her children. They need an outsider to validate their feelings and to talk too.
I am raising my 17 year old niece because of a situation similar so I do understand how torn and upset you are. I couldn’t get through to my brother so I put my energy and efforts into my niece. She’s been through counseling and has much better perspective on life then a few years ago. The most important thing she has learned is that it is not her fault she has nothing to do with the choices both her parents made and feels 100% better about herself and her future.
Your sister is equally un-healthy as is her alcoholic/drug addict husband. She probably doesn’t even know how un-healthy she has become, she most likely will become as defensive as her husband does if confronted.
If you can’t talk to her at least keep the lines of communication open between you and her children. They need an outsider to validate their feelings and to talk too.
I am raising my 17 year old niece because of a situation similar so I do understand how torn and upset you are. I couldn’t get through to my brother so I put my energy and efforts into my niece. She’s been through counseling and has much better perspective on life then a few years ago. The most important thing she has learned is that it is not her fault she has nothing to do with the choices both her parents made and feels 100% better about herself and her future.
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,542
Originally Posted by Limerick37 
my sister has told the kids to keep things private, not to tell me or others on the outside what is happening at home because we won't "understand".....
Too bad your sister has no idea just how much she is hurting her kids by not taking the steps to remove the Father from the situation. The sober parent has to assume responsibility to do the right thing regardless of the circumstances.
This one's a real hot button for me so I SHOULD just leave it alone.... But... at some point if the children's emotional health or safety is at risk I would really be considering calling Child Protective Services.
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 157
I would encourage your sister to go to Alanon and a family program. At least for the kids sake. The teenagers will have a support group where they can discuss their problems in a safe environment. The teen years are a tough one and just knowing that there are others with the same problem will help.
Also, in the long run, it might give your sister the strength to move forward. I wish you the best.
Also, in the long run, it might give your sister the strength to move forward. I wish you the best.
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: looking for the sun in cold MN
Posts: 775
Believe me- I know how hard it can be to overcome the feelings of failure when it comes to divorce. I was raised Catholic and come from a large Italian/traditional family. Divorce is just not something we do. I also come from a long line of long-suffering women who stuck in it for their children or for whatever reason- religious, fear, the stigma. . . I had to work through it, and I feel better because I believe I am not a failure. How can I be a failure if there's no chance of succeeding in a marriage where only one of us is really trying to make it work? I actually even talked to a priest about what was going on, and he told me to move in the direction of getting out of my marriage. I also used to believe I had to stay with it for our dd- but a little voice inside me kept asking "What about me?" I was miserable, lonely. . . I finally decided our dd would be better off in a home where at least one parent is healthy. I'm finding she is still happy and doing fine. We'll get through the bumps.
You cannot make your sister do anything. She can't make her H do anything. All she can do is take care of herself and her kids. It sounds like the kids are already suffering with what is going on. I'd talk to her about that, but know it may not change anything. Al-anon for her and al-ateen for her kids could do a lot of good. And I hope you take care of yourself. I'm sure it's hard not to want to get involved- but that's where the danger lies- it's how we got where we are-not taking care of ourselves and trying too hard to take care of another person.
You cannot make your sister do anything. She can't make her H do anything. All she can do is take care of herself and her kids. It sounds like the kids are already suffering with what is going on. I'd talk to her about that, but know it may not change anything. Al-anon for her and al-ateen for her kids could do a lot of good. And I hope you take care of yourself. I'm sure it's hard not to want to get involved- but that's where the danger lies- it's how we got where we are-not taking care of ourselves and trying too hard to take care of another person.
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 22
Thanks to all of you - wow, what a quick response! Just for you to take the time to speak with me is huge...I have the best husband in the world, but at this point, at least 10 years on into this saga, he is pretty much of the "forget him, forget her" point of view and his main concern is for the 4 children. He really doesn't want to hear about my sister or her choices or her co-dependency anymore. But I can't forget her - she's my sister, my big sister, and she always took care of me when we were younger...we both nursed our parents through terminal cancer together, so we've seen the good and difficult things life has to offer together. Our children are exceptionally close - more like siblings than cousins...
JAzzman, I'm afraid I screwed up big-time because the last time I spoke with her was just after the kids had left my house (I paid for their tickets to come see me in Europe from the U.S.) and they had had their meltdown - and told her that if she didn't get out and I heard anything else from the kids that made me concerned about their welfare that I would call social services...I've offered to fly over and support her through an intervention, or even just take the kids away for a few days so she can deal with AH...I really lost my temper, gave her an ultimatum (not a good thing as I have learned!), she got very defensive and hung up on me and has not spoken to me since that time (a month ago). I do get daily emails from one nephew - an "A" student and great athlete who is starting his senior year in h.s. Instead of picking out colleges and worrying about typical teen stuff, he is planning on staying home and going to community college so he will be there to "help raise" his 2 younger siblings, since "his mother can't do it alone" - I told my sister this and she said I was lying...her denial, her own illness is so major that she is just not able to hear this...she has gone to 2 AlAnon mtgs but told me that while everyone was very pleasant, it just wasn't for her. Again, she wants to keep this the family secret.
What made me saddest - and this whole meltdown with my nephews happened in front of my own children - was, after listening and talking and crying for 3 hours, one of my nephews said to me "Thank you for listening to us. THank you for being honest. Thank you for justifying us". They went home and spoke honestly with their mother - like I encouraged them to - and now they've been told to be wary of me, not to talk to me, etc.... I haven't approached them - our emails have been about EVERYTHING except the elephant in the room - do I bring it up again? Do I apologize to my sister - although, I don't feel that I've done anything wrong...
Detachment? Hands off the addict - or in this case, the co-dependent spouse? Or in 20 years, will my nieces and nephews look at me and say "Why didn't you help us????"
JAzzman, I'm afraid I screwed up big-time because the last time I spoke with her was just after the kids had left my house (I paid for their tickets to come see me in Europe from the U.S.) and they had had their meltdown - and told her that if she didn't get out and I heard anything else from the kids that made me concerned about their welfare that I would call social services...I've offered to fly over and support her through an intervention, or even just take the kids away for a few days so she can deal with AH...I really lost my temper, gave her an ultimatum (not a good thing as I have learned!), she got very defensive and hung up on me and has not spoken to me since that time (a month ago). I do get daily emails from one nephew - an "A" student and great athlete who is starting his senior year in h.s. Instead of picking out colleges and worrying about typical teen stuff, he is planning on staying home and going to community college so he will be there to "help raise" his 2 younger siblings, since "his mother can't do it alone" - I told my sister this and she said I was lying...her denial, her own illness is so major that she is just not able to hear this...she has gone to 2 AlAnon mtgs but told me that while everyone was very pleasant, it just wasn't for her. Again, she wants to keep this the family secret.
What made me saddest - and this whole meltdown with my nephews happened in front of my own children - was, after listening and talking and crying for 3 hours, one of my nephews said to me "Thank you for listening to us. THank you for being honest. Thank you for justifying us". They went home and spoke honestly with their mother - like I encouraged them to - and now they've been told to be wary of me, not to talk to me, etc.... I haven't approached them - our emails have been about EVERYTHING except the elephant in the room - do I bring it up again? Do I apologize to my sister - although, I don't feel that I've done anything wrong...
Detachment? Hands off the addict - or in this case, the co-dependent spouse? Or in 20 years, will my nieces and nephews look at me and say "Why didn't you help us????"
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