Reddmax

Ok, I'm working on the whole detachment thing with the AW. She gets home, and 2 minutes later has her first drink of wine. I work, she gets dinner ready. We talk for a bit, and she says "spend some time with me". At this time, she's only had 1.5 glasses, and she's still civil. So I spend some time, and we talk a bit, and I say we have issues, we need to work them out, and it may require professional help. She agrees... What shock!!! Okay, tender moment over. I go back to working on trim, and she goes back to drinking.

Fast forward to 9:00. She's on her 4th glass. She's watching TV, I'm reading. She's slurring and talking non-sensically. Then, she's out of wine and wants me to fill the glass. I refuse. She sits there for a while, and then goes and fills it herself. Comes in, throws a fit about the Cats not being fed. Say's she told me to feed them. I reply " I thought you meant I need to buy cat food tomorrow on my way home from work". Then she goes off on me. I calmly state "You can't talk to me like this" and walk away and start reading. She thinks I'm going to bed, and starts speaking really loudly, "Go to Bed,&^*^", Go Ahead". I, in the living room ignore her. She finally comes into the living room, and sits down and watches TV. I'm reading. Then, she starts talking to me, even though I'm busy. She wants to know what she should ask John McCain at an industry group meeting tomorrow. I say, "Ask a question pertinent to the issues your company sees". She then starts cursing at me, at which point, I get up and go to the bedroom. She starts banging things around, loudly saying "Whatever".

I watch TV, close the door and ignore her. I didn't feel bad, I didn't engage in the stupidity. I felt... great. I was feeling fine. About 20 minutes later the dogs go nuts barking and carrying on. I get up, and discover she had locked herself out of the house. I let her in, and go back to bed. 10 minutes later, there's a loud noise. She knocked over the lamp, and knocked over a vial of scented oil.

I know this is a long post, but here's my two questions. This is my action: I cleaned up the oil on the floor, because I'm going to try and sell the house, and I don't need a huge ruined spot of finish on the floor. Was that enabling, or is that intelligent self interest?

2nd: In the morning, after the AW has been an ass the night before, how should I interact with her? Should I act as if nothing was wrong, tell her what she did, or what? What does everyone else do?

Also... when she noted that that she and I might need counseling, I flashed back to the "When does an Alcoholic lie, anytime their lips are moving". I'm not holding my breath until she takes initiative herself.

Red

respektingme

I think you did the right thing by cleaning up the oil. Normally, you should have left it. But you need to keep your eyes on the prize, and that is selling that house. While you could have left the oil, she most likely wouldn't stop drinking at the realization that her drunkenness caused it, hence no positive return on your cost of having the floor ruined.

As for how to "act" the next morning. I'm usually not real warm the next morning. Sometimes my AH likes to act sweet, like nothing happened. That makes me feel like he's pulling one over one me. And it's particularly distressing when he thinks sex will cure everything.

I usually just do my thing the next morning. Do dishes or be productive somewhere he isn't. Then he leaves for work and all is right with the world.

GiveLove

Sounds like you handled things in a pretty darned healthy way, red.

I too would've wiped up oil on the floor of a house I want to sell. To ME, anyway, that's healthy self-interest. But if it wasn't something damaging to the potential sale, I'd ponder whether I wanted to keep cleaning up after an adult. But oil on a finish....yeah, get that.

It's interesting that you can step back and observe how she is getting irritated by you stepping away from her craziness....as an intellectual person, can you see that's what's going on? It's pretty common among As. They want us to engage with the madness, do things the way we've always done them, and when we start to step off in self-interest, their anger starts showing. Glad you decided to stay out of the fray.

I don't have much input on what to say the morning after. Sounds like almost all of your mornings are the morning after. So maybe someone else will chime in and suggest a healthy plan.

Are there local couples' counselors that have worked with alcoholism/addiction issues? Is that something you want? If so, maybe a preliminary appointment might be a good idea. From what you've told us, I kinda doubt she'll take the initiative. But it's really good to hear that, in a semi-sober moment, she was at least willing. My X was never willing until I was packed and ready to go, and you can guess how well that worked out (like, not at all)

Well done. You're taking great strides already, imho

starflier

I am so sorry about your situation and the obvious trauma you're going through. I am pretty new to all this, too, but I could really relate to your bewilderment. I like the way you phrased "intelligent self interest." It's true that the lines are often blurry.

My AP (alcoholic partner) and I recently spent many long hours repainting our living room and dining room, pulled up all the carpets and had guys come in to refinish the hardwood floors. My AP definitely did her share of the work, and we were both justiably proud of the finished result.

Only a few weeks later, I came home one day and she was sitting on the couch, surrounded by CDs that she'd pulled out of the cabinet and scattered everywhere, the stereo blaring, and drunk as a skunk. She was so bad she barely recognized me. I simply broke into tears as I saw that she'd pulled a cast iron candleholder from the wall, tearing big holes in the 100-year-old painstakingly refinished trim, and bashed the trim from top to bottom with this heavy candleholder. Even scarier, she'd gone in the kitchen and found the biggest carving knife, and it was sticking out of the wall.

What was I to do? She's great at painting, especially with a roller as you can do that drunk, but is rotten at any fine work. I was sure I couldn't handle walking into the room every day and seeing the ruined trim. This is a lath and plaster house with the big, wide old trim they did a hundred years ago. I had to completely repair and refinish the 3 foot swath that was mangled, and even then it doesn't look as good as it did before.

She has absolutely no memory of what triggered this violence. It scared the crap out of me. And, to top it off, one of my daughters (26) was with me when I arrived home and found her, so I couldn't do my normal hiding of the incident. I fixed it out of self-interest, and out of embarrassment because I didn't want others to see the damage, and out of the knowledge that if she fixed it the repairs would be subpar. I'm still not sure I did the right thing, but even so I know that it helps me to write about it. This was one of the scariest things she's done, especially in my daughter's eyes, who immediately feared for my safety.

I have no idea what our future holds, but if we separate, we will need to sell our house, and it needs to be in good condition, so I guess I did the right thing. On that note, and sorry for being so lengthy, I think you did the right thing.

I'm thinking of you!

dunerkat

I don't even know what to say, but that I've been in similar situations. Before I left this time, I did not pick up anything he broke in the house. I left it for him.

In the mornings I would also be distant to him. It's difficult to be sunny & cheery when the night before you were in hell.

It is so upsetting when they destroy your home because it's so visible to you. Guess they realize in their drunken state that will be something you are reminded of.

I'm so sorry this has happened to the both of you.

Reddmax

Okay.... Then its cool. I was a bit snippy this morning, as I told her about the oil, and she said. "Sorry", and I replied "You're not sorry". At which point she got mad. I went about my business, and then gave her a kiss, and left for work.

Reddmax

The other thing that's frightening about last evening is that her daughter had an argument with an ex last night about remaining things at his house. The daughter got mad, got her cousin, and took off to get her stuff. So, even though I thought that it was a bit dangerous that she went, the AW kept drinking and was totally useless if there had been an emergency. I was the one that called to make sure that everything was all right. I wonder if that was enableing or defusing a crisis?

Very strange, but the rollercoaster is pretty level today.

Kindeyes

Red
I think you're doing wonderfully. It's all baby steps initially. I definitely would have cleaned up the oil.....as you said.....healthy self interest. Leaving it there to ruin the finish would have been cutting your nose off to spite your face. It wouldn't have made sense. Cleaning it up did make sense.

As far as how to interact the next morning goes.......that's a little tougher. I guess my best answer would be to go about your business as normally as possible.

gentle hugs

Reddmax

So basically, what happens is in the past, and you should just act your normal self, not express your resentment and anger? I guess that's the letting go part of it.... interesting concept....

Kindeyes

Red
I guess we can ask ourselves this question. Does the resentment and anger change anything? Does it change their behavior? Not really. It only eats us up from the inside out while "they" go about their merry way. Personally, I just got tired of being resentful and angry. It doesn't feel good to me. We all have to go through a series of emotions to get to that place of peace. You'll do it in your own time, in your own way. And that's ok.

Jazzman

Hey Red, been reading your posts and some I could have written myself. I'm reminded of the saying "you can't reason with a crazy person" and that's what active addiction is, craziness. I spent countless hours trying to reverse engineer the logic, reasoning or thought process behind some of the things my ex did or said. I learned I could have made better use of my time. Here's a thread from the "best of" section that gets a lot of mileage, hope it helps you as much as it helped me. I followed the process outlined as if my own sanity depended upon it. Good luck and keep posting.

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...l-problem.html

isitme

It's sounds like your doing a great job! Seeing things for what they are and trying not to let your self get wrapped up in the mess.

I would have cleaned the oil too. I think the way you put it is absolutely correct "intelligent self interest".

I often struggle with the same issue you were asking about. How do you act when it's over?? Mine is almost the opposite because it's ususllay the next night. I feel myself becoming so cold and distant. The numbness has set in, but it doesn't make it any easier when he's always telling me I don't love him anymore. I'll be keeping an eye for any great tips.. or if you happen on an action, please share.

Bernadette

Hi Reddmaxx--
Well, I think this is where the saying from AlAnon "Say what you mean but don't say it mean" comes into play. I think holding resentlment and anger is a bad idea. It causes us anxiety and elevated bp and spares the alcoholic consequences. A hurt or issue shared in a serious absolutely clear way is something we're supposed to be able to do in a healthy relationship.

When I take the high emotion out of conversing with my alcoholic brothers, and I just get real serious and say what I need to say - no insults, no poor me, or poor you, just calm descriptive statements, it keeps me in reality and not obsessing about what I coulda shoulda woulda said or done.

Some tips I learned in AlAnon:
"I" statements are effective.
Use descriptive statements that leave out the high emotion and do not include insult or nastiness.
Use the fewest words possible.
Speak the truth.

You sound like you did a good job. It is hard not to be snippy cuz you're pissed off...but being snippy gives her the chance to take offense with your attitude (remember an alcoholic is always looking for a way to get the spotlight off of themselves and onto you so they can have the argument about anything BUT the drinking behavior).

Peace,
B.

miss communicat

let me try and share my insights on this "concept" of letting and of how to behave "the morning after".
Perhaps, instead of automatically thinking "you should just act your normal self", if we look at the choice of words there for a minute, we might get a bit more clarity.

1. First word to rethink is "should". There are no "shoulds". Give yourself the liberty of CHOICE. Try thinking "I could" just act my normal self...." which, by its very choice-centered nature, will lead your mind into other options that you DO have.

2. Second word to roll around is "act". As a codependent myself, I learned how to perform, how to act and how to always, at ALL costs, put on a great front. I learned to stuff my authenticity.
After many years of recovery, I am now able to simply "be" myself. No acting is required. ever. It assumes that I have healthy self esteem, and that I may arouse displeasure or, disagreement from another, but, you know what? If that's the case, I'd have to face it sooner or later anyway. My job on this planet is NOT to smooth everything over or to be the universal bandaid on everyone else's fragile egos.
Perhaps the word you meant was "behave"? How do you behave the morning after? May I suggest that you pause, consider the possibilities of the moment realistically, and either open the gates to a serious dialogue (likely not) or wait until another opportunity. Then, let it be. So, I am suggesting you behave the same as how your authentic self is feeling in that moment, but that perhaps you accept that a dialogue is not possible at this time.

3."not express your resentment and anger?" no. not at this time and not to the person whose behaviour and actions caused it at least. to do so would accomplish nothing. express it to us, to yourself, to your therapist, to your Alanon sponsor, to your friends. Ask yourself what you would hope to accomplish by expressing anger and resentment at your AW as you both greet the day? Chances are you hope to influence her so much that she will see your suffering and THAT alone will cause her to change. Or, you want to be understood, for having been trampled on for so long, you are hurting.

No one of us can tell you how to act, si I will only end by sharing it has been my experience that in situations of long term ongoing dissatisfaction and untreated alcoholism, the first positive change must be initiated by the non-drunk affected person. That change is an inside job. That change leads to outer changes for all involved.

good work, you are seeing so much that will carry you through...

Reddmax

Well, her alcohol induced "accidents" last night was another I gotta clean up before it damages something I want to sell. Then I also get abuse from her while I'm trying to clean it up. "Shakes head" Sometimes you can't win for losing.

She spashed red wine all over a wall. I didn't want to let it sit and stain the wall so I would have to repaint it.

Sometimes I think she actively wants to sabotage everything I'm doing to get to a better place.

GiveLove

Good observation. Better for whom? Better for you.

My X refused to move out of the house, so I did. I was trying to sell it, and he was careful to keep it as dirty and cluttered as possible. He didn't want me to get to a better place. He wanted to keep things as they were.

You're likely to face all kinds of resistance, from outright criticism to all kinds of passive-aggressive behavior like this, on your journey toward taking care of yourself. Alcoholics don't want us to take this journey - they want us to keep passively refilling their glass, literally and figuratively.