A terrible secret
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Northen Europe and France
Posts: 1,657
A terrible secret
I have something very difficult to share, but I believe it would help me and maybe some other women and men who have the same problem.
I stopped using drugs 22 years ago, been sober since 1986 and stopped gambling in 1992. After dealing with the most immiediate recovery issues I starting working on my love relationships which have always been a disaster. I´m divorced and have a daughter and a fosterson. I´ve lived with fove other men as well and dated many men between separations.
I have recently broken through a bad denial with the help of my therapist. The awful truth is that I abuse men physically and mentally and have done so since I started my relationships in my teens.
One of the reasons could be that I was kidnapped and raped in my teens and got pregnant. Much later, I was engaged to be married when my fiancé ran away three weeks before the wedding and left me with the weddingdress, the bridal veil and a guest list. I never hit him; he was the love of my life, but I had been abusing men really badly before that. When I got married after that dreadful experience, I started abusing men again.
The strange thing is that I have never abused women or - God help me - children. It seems to be men only.
I have now stopped completely. No relationships for 4 years. I´m celibate and I intend to solve this problem.
I need some input badly. Please help.
I stopped using drugs 22 years ago, been sober since 1986 and stopped gambling in 1992. After dealing with the most immiediate recovery issues I starting working on my love relationships which have always been a disaster. I´m divorced and have a daughter and a fosterson. I´ve lived with fove other men as well and dated many men between separations.
I have recently broken through a bad denial with the help of my therapist. The awful truth is that I abuse men physically and mentally and have done so since I started my relationships in my teens.
One of the reasons could be that I was kidnapped and raped in my teens and got pregnant. Much later, I was engaged to be married when my fiancé ran away three weeks before the wedding and left me with the weddingdress, the bridal veil and a guest list. I never hit him; he was the love of my life, but I had been abusing men really badly before that. When I got married after that dreadful experience, I started abusing men again.
The strange thing is that I have never abused women or - God help me - children. It seems to be men only.
I have now stopped completely. No relationships for 4 years. I´m celibate and I intend to solve this problem.
I need some input badly. Please help.
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Posts: n/a
Lilya,
Thank you for sharing your experience. Admitting our character defects is tough. I've had to do it many many times. One thing I've learned about myself is that I reacted in relationships in the way I did as a survival method that I carried with me after being raped. Contol is important when you've been victimized in this way. There are many methods of control we may use. No sex, too much sex, jealously, anger reactions, distancing ourselves or overly dependent. The list just goes on.
Awareness is the first step and you are doing well. I still haven't recovered from some of the damage, but all we can do is to keep working on it.
So glad you are here with us.
Hugs,
MG
Thank you for sharing your experience. Admitting our character defects is tough. I've had to do it many many times. One thing I've learned about myself is that I reacted in relationships in the way I did as a survival method that I carried with me after being raped. Contol is important when you've been victimized in this way. There are many methods of control we may use. No sex, too much sex, jealously, anger reactions, distancing ourselves or overly dependent. The list just goes on.
Awareness is the first step and you are doing well. I still haven't recovered from some of the damage, but all we can do is to keep working on it.
So glad you are here with us.
Hugs,
MG
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Join Date: May 2003
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 5
Courage
Wow! I really admire your courage and strength for posting that. To me that must mean that you are really ready to break free of your unhealthy patterns. Congratulations! The first step in solving any problem is awareness. You are now aware of the problem and admiting it here on this board. I'm sure that doing that will help you begin to recover from this, although actually speaking the truth can sometimes make it seem much more real. However, the pain of facing the truth opens you up to receive the gifts of healing. Good luck to you and I truly admire your courage. Youre on the right track. Good job!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Northen Europe and France
Posts: 1,657
Thanks for the warm thoughts. I cannot tell you how much I appreciate this.
I know it´s my first step to admit this to myself and others - it´s been there, nagging at me whenever I was working my 4th step, but it never came really out. I wasn´t ready to deal with this. Now I´m aware of it and I´m struggling with the guilt and the shame. I would like to do a continue to work the steps and I will certainly apologize to the men I´ve caused harm when they are ready to let me do so. I am also aware of that this is a crime - I have volonteered in Women´s shelters. I don´t know what to do about that. This is so much work, it could take the rest of my life.
I hope and pray that I will never, ever harm another man again.
Are there any men here struggling with this problem? I´m here for those who need to unburden themselves without judgement.
“Sleep of reason produces monsters.” Goya.
_
I know it´s my first step to admit this to myself and others - it´s been there, nagging at me whenever I was working my 4th step, but it never came really out. I wasn´t ready to deal with this. Now I´m aware of it and I´m struggling with the guilt and the shame. I would like to do a continue to work the steps and I will certainly apologize to the men I´ve caused harm when they are ready to let me do so. I am also aware of that this is a crime - I have volonteered in Women´s shelters. I don´t know what to do about that. This is so much work, it could take the rest of my life.
I hope and pray that I will never, ever harm another man again.
Are there any men here struggling with this problem? I´m here for those who need to unburden themselves without judgement.
“Sleep of reason produces monsters.” Goya.
_
Guest
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 261
SUpport for Lyla
Lylya,
Please forgive me for misspelling your name. I can't see it now! Anyway, I can relate. I was reading your posts from where I was catching up reading some earlier days, and it did look like you had something you needed to get out. You are not alone. I was kidnapped and raped at 17, I think it was, and I have lots of other reasons to be messed up, too. I too seem to have licked the substance abuse, but never want to let my awareness and work down, but seem to have the most problems in relationships. My divorce seemed to help bring me out of denial some. I see now all the anger and that while my significant others abuse me, I also abuse them. There are so many different forms of abuse. I am trying to stay out of relationships until I feel better about myself too. But I don't want to procrastinate. Anyway, I like you have recently faced some hard truths about my character, and I seem to unearth new ones everyday. I guess that's a good thing. That means we are growing. Growth and truth are painful, but like someone said, they are the first steps to a solution. And they sure beat the alternative -- lies and denial, if you ask me. Do you have a good doctor to prescribe medicine to help with the anger, maybe, it may or may not be the answer for you, but it helped me. Also I like to have counselors, not doctors, that I can do the talk therapy or analysis or whatever you call it, talking, not meds, therapy with. You know?
I'm listening, and I can relate.
Nancy
Please forgive me for misspelling your name. I can't see it now! Anyway, I can relate. I was reading your posts from where I was catching up reading some earlier days, and it did look like you had something you needed to get out. You are not alone. I was kidnapped and raped at 17, I think it was, and I have lots of other reasons to be messed up, too. I too seem to have licked the substance abuse, but never want to let my awareness and work down, but seem to have the most problems in relationships. My divorce seemed to help bring me out of denial some. I see now all the anger and that while my significant others abuse me, I also abuse them. There are so many different forms of abuse. I am trying to stay out of relationships until I feel better about myself too. But I don't want to procrastinate. Anyway, I like you have recently faced some hard truths about my character, and I seem to unearth new ones everyday. I guess that's a good thing. That means we are growing. Growth and truth are painful, but like someone said, they are the first steps to a solution. And they sure beat the alternative -- lies and denial, if you ask me. Do you have a good doctor to prescribe medicine to help with the anger, maybe, it may or may not be the answer for you, but it helped me. Also I like to have counselors, not doctors, that I can do the talk therapy or analysis or whatever you call it, talking, not meds, therapy with. You know?
I'm listening, and I can relate.
Nancy
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Northen Europe and France
Posts: 1,657
Dear Nancy,
Thank you so much for both your replies. I am more and more aware of the fact I´m not alone. You´re so right about lies and denial being worse than continuing to practice our disease. A great weight has been lifted off my shoulder. Simply admitting the truth has been amazing. But now I need a great deal of work because I don´t want this to happen again. You mention medicin for the anger. My pshychiatrist gave me Cipramil and I´ve been taking that with good results - I haven´t hit anyone since I started the treatment, but then I haven´t had much chance, either. I´ve been dating, but I don´t dare to start a new relationship. This is tricky. But as you say: Thank God for the 12 steps. I believe there is a way through this by using them.
My therapist has also suggested a cognitive therapy along with my group work: Using the reason to guide me when I face an emotional issue. I find it very good and I am now trying to take out the words I overuse: I havwe to, I must, I cannot stand this, etc, and replace it with: It would be better, it would be preferable, This is bad, but not the end of the world. Plus constantly ask myself: What can I learn from this?
I feel a lot better doing this, but it´s tricky and the old pattern seem to come back and creep up at me, if I´m not constantly aware.
I looked at some RR forums on the Internet plus a web page called SMART, but both are too pragmatic for me. I won´t come near RR because they knock AA, and I find it a bit childish. The reading tools SMART suggest are very good, but again I take what I like and leave the rest. I once worked on an article on holocauste survivers, because my great-aunt survived both the camps in Germany and the camp in Paris in the Winter Circus during the German occupation. I cannot see how a Rational Recovery can even begin to address the emotional pain I know these people suffered. The people who didn´t die in the camps had something stronger then them to guide them, although they had to rely on their inner strenght to survive.
Have you - or anyone interested enough to read this - tried the other webs such as Rational therapy with AA?
Warmest thoughts to you Nancy, and thanks again. I really appreciate your kind reply.
(I left you the same reply in the other forum)
Thank you so much for both your replies. I am more and more aware of the fact I´m not alone. You´re so right about lies and denial being worse than continuing to practice our disease. A great weight has been lifted off my shoulder. Simply admitting the truth has been amazing. But now I need a great deal of work because I don´t want this to happen again. You mention medicin for the anger. My pshychiatrist gave me Cipramil and I´ve been taking that with good results - I haven´t hit anyone since I started the treatment, but then I haven´t had much chance, either. I´ve been dating, but I don´t dare to start a new relationship. This is tricky. But as you say: Thank God for the 12 steps. I believe there is a way through this by using them.
My therapist has also suggested a cognitive therapy along with my group work: Using the reason to guide me when I face an emotional issue. I find it very good and I am now trying to take out the words I overuse: I havwe to, I must, I cannot stand this, etc, and replace it with: It would be better, it would be preferable, This is bad, but not the end of the world. Plus constantly ask myself: What can I learn from this?
I feel a lot better doing this, but it´s tricky and the old pattern seem to come back and creep up at me, if I´m not constantly aware.
I looked at some RR forums on the Internet plus a web page called SMART, but both are too pragmatic for me. I won´t come near RR because they knock AA, and I find it a bit childish. The reading tools SMART suggest are very good, but again I take what I like and leave the rest. I once worked on an article on holocauste survivers, because my great-aunt survived both the camps in Germany and the camp in Paris in the Winter Circus during the German occupation. I cannot see how a Rational Recovery can even begin to address the emotional pain I know these people suffered. The people who didn´t die in the camps had something stronger then them to guide them, although they had to rely on their inner strenght to survive.
Have you - or anyone interested enough to read this - tried the other webs such as Rational therapy with AA?
Warmest thoughts to you Nancy, and thanks again. I really appreciate your kind reply.
(I left you the same reply in the other forum)
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: NYC, NY
Posts: 3
I feel you
This is my biggest fear, as a victim of abuse. That I might become like my abuser. Its a very real and present fear because of what I know about the cycle of violence, children who are abused often grow up to be abusive, battered women can end up bitter and violent.
When I feel the fear rising in myself in the relationship I also know this is when I'm the most prone to do awful things to my lover because the fear distorts my perceptions.
I tend to get in fights and then write letters of explanation and apology. But isn't that what an abuser does? Lashes out and then apologizes and SWEARS it wont ever happen again?
The last time I got angry like this, I was plastered, and I threw a huge fit in public, I knew the audience would make it hurt more. It was something my ex had done to me a thousand times. And at the time I felt like my target deserved it. But after the fact, when I remembered where I learned that trick........
My doctor says I am too hard on myself, that I am probably reacting to intolerable situations in my relationships and that my actions are understandable and that I just need to learn better ways of handling it. But the fear is still there. That I might lose control again, let my guard down.
Because if I end up an abusive manipulative person, then my ex will have won, he will have made me a monster just like him.
I can almost hear him laughing behind me, that I am no better than him, that I am doomed to the misery he put me through and that my life wont get any better.
Sobriety helps me keep this at bay, but fear and anger are their own intoxicants. Distorting everything I see. I can hear the justifications in my mind "how dare they put ME through this after what IVE already BEEN through, I have to stop them and make them fear hurting me"..... its ugly because its true and false at the same time. I STILL cant fully wrap my head around it.
My hyper-vigilance against myself could make me vulnerable to abuse and manipulation, because I take responsibility for everything onto myself, and my hyper-vigilance against others can turn me into the beast.
So I'm in a stalemate with myself. I wont date. My doctor says this is silly and that I should be fine if the guy is good for me. But she doesn't know what its like to try to regain control of yourself once you're overtaken with that decibel of anger and fear. And to look at yourself in the mirror again after you've done something like that. I wont do this to my family in the future, I don't want to carry this with me into my next relationship.
The boy that loves me had better be a smart and patient young man, cuz as hard as I work, I still slip
Take care of you and remember to breathe!
When I feel the fear rising in myself in the relationship I also know this is when I'm the most prone to do awful things to my lover because the fear distorts my perceptions.
I tend to get in fights and then write letters of explanation and apology. But isn't that what an abuser does? Lashes out and then apologizes and SWEARS it wont ever happen again?
The last time I got angry like this, I was plastered, and I threw a huge fit in public, I knew the audience would make it hurt more. It was something my ex had done to me a thousand times. And at the time I felt like my target deserved it. But after the fact, when I remembered where I learned that trick........
My doctor says I am too hard on myself, that I am probably reacting to intolerable situations in my relationships and that my actions are understandable and that I just need to learn better ways of handling it. But the fear is still there. That I might lose control again, let my guard down.
Because if I end up an abusive manipulative person, then my ex will have won, he will have made me a monster just like him.
I can almost hear him laughing behind me, that I am no better than him, that I am doomed to the misery he put me through and that my life wont get any better.
Sobriety helps me keep this at bay, but fear and anger are their own intoxicants. Distorting everything I see. I can hear the justifications in my mind "how dare they put ME through this after what IVE already BEEN through, I have to stop them and make them fear hurting me"..... its ugly because its true and false at the same time. I STILL cant fully wrap my head around it.
My hyper-vigilance against myself could make me vulnerable to abuse and manipulation, because I take responsibility for everything onto myself, and my hyper-vigilance against others can turn me into the beast.
So I'm in a stalemate with myself. I wont date. My doctor says this is silly and that I should be fine if the guy is good for me. But she doesn't know what its like to try to regain control of yourself once you're overtaken with that decibel of anger and fear. And to look at yourself in the mirror again after you've done something like that. I wont do this to my family in the future, I don't want to carry this with me into my next relationship.
The boy that loves me had better be a smart and patient young man, cuz as hard as I work, I still slip
Take care of you and remember to breathe!
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 261
You are not alone
Dear Naias,
I worry like that, too. You are not alone. I don't know if this helps, and like you, I have been so skiddish I haven't put it into practice, but I like to remember that I do choose. I can decide what I will choose to allow another person to do to me and what I will not choose to allow another person to do to me. When I have gotten into full blown rages, and I have, it was usually because, like your doctor said, I was not being treated with respect, to put it mildly. I agree that there are more effective ways to deal with that than rages. And I know I can do it. I didn't used to think so, and I still worry that I can't, but at some point, I realize that I don't have to be stuck in this cycle of behavior, that I can just react differently. That I can do it, even though it may mean detaching and staying away from a person who is pushing my buttons by being disrespectful and not treating me as though I have any value. The rages didn't stop those attitudes or that behavior, because the only thing I can change is me and my attitudes and my behavior (the serenity prayer). Just because I slipped and did not follow the prayer so many times before doesn't mean the next time someone is dissing me I can't act differently and walk away instead of raging. I relapsed with alcohol and drugs many times, but I finally succeeded, and I can do it with rage too. I won't let relapses discourage me. Thanks for listening. And thanks for sharing and being so real folks. You help me face things and work on things instead of avoiding. Thanks. When I start believing I can, I can start changing. When I would choose not walk away, it was a choice. I chose not to. I chose to stay and argue and rage. Maybe next time the choice to detach and stay calm, even though it is lonely, will be more attractive than the choice to rage. I also believe that not every date will behave in ways that push our buttons. There are options. I believe in you and me.
Nancy
I worry like that, too. You are not alone. I don't know if this helps, and like you, I have been so skiddish I haven't put it into practice, but I like to remember that I do choose. I can decide what I will choose to allow another person to do to me and what I will not choose to allow another person to do to me. When I have gotten into full blown rages, and I have, it was usually because, like your doctor said, I was not being treated with respect, to put it mildly. I agree that there are more effective ways to deal with that than rages. And I know I can do it. I didn't used to think so, and I still worry that I can't, but at some point, I realize that I don't have to be stuck in this cycle of behavior, that I can just react differently. That I can do it, even though it may mean detaching and staying away from a person who is pushing my buttons by being disrespectful and not treating me as though I have any value. The rages didn't stop those attitudes or that behavior, because the only thing I can change is me and my attitudes and my behavior (the serenity prayer). Just because I slipped and did not follow the prayer so many times before doesn't mean the next time someone is dissing me I can't act differently and walk away instead of raging. I relapsed with alcohol and drugs many times, but I finally succeeded, and I can do it with rage too. I won't let relapses discourage me. Thanks for listening. And thanks for sharing and being so real folks. You help me face things and work on things instead of avoiding. Thanks. When I start believing I can, I can start changing. When I would choose not walk away, it was a choice. I chose not to. I chose to stay and argue and rage. Maybe next time the choice to detach and stay calm, even though it is lonely, will be more attractive than the choice to rage. I also believe that not every date will behave in ways that push our buttons. There are options. I believe in you and me.
Nancy
Last edited by Heavens; 06-29-2003 at 08:37 PM.
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 261
More reflections on naias' post
Dear naias and all:
I am not minimizing the excruciating difficulty of these changes or the fact that relapses are real, and we must live with and deal with those. I am just saying that I think that hope and faith in miracles and change and a better life are crucial to my recovery.
If I don't think I can, I won't really put my heart into the effort. And, as difficult as the struggle is, I am going to need to be totally committed and put my whole heart and strength into it.
Am I ready and willing to do that? I hope so. Am I able? I believe so.
I don't think I was really committed to making the right choice before, because I was so angry with what the choices were. Let's see...I had a choice to stay with an emotionally and mentally abusive boyfriend who did not value me or treat me with respect at times, (many times he did) or give up the good times we had and choose to walk away and be alone. It seemed like a crummy deal. What I was not seeing or looking at were the rich rewards in the long run, but I must be willing to wait and work for them. I believe I am beginning to see that now.
Unfortunately for me, I wasn't able or willing to see that until I hit bottom and almost died -- seems to be this stubborn mule's pattern. But now I think that, while I don't like it, and it is not the way I would have it if I had my way (if I had my way or will I would have instant, total gratification at all times), I am beginning to see and accept that my will is just not reality, and that when I accept His will instead of mine and reality, and deal with it and make healthy choices living in the real world, and not impossibly wishing for my world, things get better, I think.
Hope you all keep sharing so honestly. You have helped immensely for me to come to grips with reality.
Nancy
I am not minimizing the excruciating difficulty of these changes or the fact that relapses are real, and we must live with and deal with those. I am just saying that I think that hope and faith in miracles and change and a better life are crucial to my recovery.
If I don't think I can, I won't really put my heart into the effort. And, as difficult as the struggle is, I am going to need to be totally committed and put my whole heart and strength into it.
Am I ready and willing to do that? I hope so. Am I able? I believe so.
I don't think I was really committed to making the right choice before, because I was so angry with what the choices were. Let's see...I had a choice to stay with an emotionally and mentally abusive boyfriend who did not value me or treat me with respect at times, (many times he did) or give up the good times we had and choose to walk away and be alone. It seemed like a crummy deal. What I was not seeing or looking at were the rich rewards in the long run, but I must be willing to wait and work for them. I believe I am beginning to see that now.
Unfortunately for me, I wasn't able or willing to see that until I hit bottom and almost died -- seems to be this stubborn mule's pattern. But now I think that, while I don't like it, and it is not the way I would have it if I had my way (if I had my way or will I would have instant, total gratification at all times), I am beginning to see and accept that my will is just not reality, and that when I accept His will instead of mine and reality, and deal with it and make healthy choices living in the real world, and not impossibly wishing for my world, things get better, I think.
Hope you all keep sharing so honestly. You have helped immensely for me to come to grips with reality.
Nancy
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Northen Europe and France
Posts: 1,657
To Naia
Dear Naias,
Thank you very much for sharing. I hear you and I can relate. I was molested when I was six years old, then kidnapped and raped in my teens and had the baby I got pregnant with. I have always been in abusing relationships with real provocative men who cheat and lie, are unfaithful and unable to commit. I know now I have chosed these men unconsciously to be able to punish my wrong-doers - acting out as an irrational, angry adult, replaying endlessly these scenarios because I haven´t learned the lesson these relationships provided.
I was abused and as I´ve always hated being a victim, I became the monster lashing out, which is of course much worse. I waited for these men to provoke me to be able to get into fights with them. I wanted their provocations; feeded on it. As ugly as it sounds, I have to face the truth and approach my next relationships - if I decide to have others in the future. I´m not sure I will as I´m not sure it´s safe. My therapist has suggested friendship with men, but I have never been able to have friendships with males, except homosexuals. I have difficulties having men serve me in supermarkets, gift stores, travel agencies and particularily at the beautyshop. I usually ask for a woman to do the work and I use only female gynochologists. This shows incredible fear of men.
I was a counselor in a Women´s Centre but I stopped while I´m going through this. The intense hatred I had for the wife-beaters was simply a projection of the hatred for myself. Although, and this is a strong point, I do not approve of anyone being abused. But there is a responsibility I think we must shoulder and I believe some women in the Women´s shelter have similar problems.
I noticed, as well, that the men who battered their spouses were mostlh in denial and blamed everything on the women they abused. Very few were unwilling to seek help. Sometimes I truly wanted to end it all, because I couldn´t live with such a secret and shame.
I´m taking this as it comes, one day at a time, one step at a time. I´m using rational therapy (but not RR!) to guide me through this along side with AA. I want to start a group in Paris for women like me.
I went to the Buddist temple today and offerd a prayer for all of us who suffer because of this. One thing is crystal clear: I will not do this again and I will use all methods available to me to prevent me to abuse men again.
My therapist urges me to continue dating, but I´m still in shock over my recent discovery. I will try friendship to begin with - I´ve never hurt my male friends - but I need to be so very careful. I know I will slip, but I am now learning anger management. And I´m learning to breathe.
One step at a time. Dear Nancy, I will also try to remember that I choose. I will also walk away if necessary. Thank you for the beautiful pictures. It´s a wonderful gesture. Thanks a lot. I´ll answer your post a bit later.
Love and light,
“Sleep of reason produces monsters - Goya.”
Thank you very much for sharing. I hear you and I can relate. I was molested when I was six years old, then kidnapped and raped in my teens and had the baby I got pregnant with. I have always been in abusing relationships with real provocative men who cheat and lie, are unfaithful and unable to commit. I know now I have chosed these men unconsciously to be able to punish my wrong-doers - acting out as an irrational, angry adult, replaying endlessly these scenarios because I haven´t learned the lesson these relationships provided.
I was abused and as I´ve always hated being a victim, I became the monster lashing out, which is of course much worse. I waited for these men to provoke me to be able to get into fights with them. I wanted their provocations; feeded on it. As ugly as it sounds, I have to face the truth and approach my next relationships - if I decide to have others in the future. I´m not sure I will as I´m not sure it´s safe. My therapist has suggested friendship with men, but I have never been able to have friendships with males, except homosexuals. I have difficulties having men serve me in supermarkets, gift stores, travel agencies and particularily at the beautyshop. I usually ask for a woman to do the work and I use only female gynochologists. This shows incredible fear of men.
I was a counselor in a Women´s Centre but I stopped while I´m going through this. The intense hatred I had for the wife-beaters was simply a projection of the hatred for myself. Although, and this is a strong point, I do not approve of anyone being abused. But there is a responsibility I think we must shoulder and I believe some women in the Women´s shelter have similar problems.
I noticed, as well, that the men who battered their spouses were mostlh in denial and blamed everything on the women they abused. Very few were unwilling to seek help. Sometimes I truly wanted to end it all, because I couldn´t live with such a secret and shame.
I´m taking this as it comes, one day at a time, one step at a time. I´m using rational therapy (but not RR!) to guide me through this along side with AA. I want to start a group in Paris for women like me.
I went to the Buddist temple today and offerd a prayer for all of us who suffer because of this. One thing is crystal clear: I will not do this again and I will use all methods available to me to prevent me to abuse men again.
My therapist urges me to continue dating, but I´m still in shock over my recent discovery. I will try friendship to begin with - I´ve never hurt my male friends - but I need to be so very careful. I know I will slip, but I am now learning anger management. And I´m learning to breathe.
One step at a time. Dear Nancy, I will also try to remember that I choose. I will also walk away if necessary. Thank you for the beautiful pictures. It´s a wonderful gesture. Thanks a lot. I´ll answer your post a bit later.
Love and light,
“Sleep of reason produces monsters - Goya.”
Member
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Charleston S.C.
Posts: 1,461
Hi Lilya, That took alot of courage to admit your problem. There are sometimes hidden reasons that we do what we do sometimes. Our minds will set up a defence to protect it from being hurt. I have had some terrible things happen in my childhood.
I found through theraphy that once I brought it out I could deal with it. Inside me it took on a life of it's own. I looked back not as a 6,7 or 8 year old kid but, as a 50 year old man. With help I have been able to understand that I am not to blame for what happened. I was a child. You have unlocked that door. It is difficult but, recovery is beyound that door. The best part is you don't have to travel the road alone. Keep posting and ask for help. Most of all, I recieved the most relief when I opened up and held nothing back.
The key is that you can get better, you deserve to get better and you deserve to be happy. I am pulling for you as is everyone else. Don
I found through theraphy that once I brought it out I could deal with it. Inside me it took on a life of it's own. I looked back not as a 6,7 or 8 year old kid but, as a 50 year old man. With help I have been able to understand that I am not to blame for what happened. I was a child. You have unlocked that door. It is difficult but, recovery is beyound that door. The best part is you don't have to travel the road alone. Keep posting and ask for help. Most of all, I recieved the most relief when I opened up and held nothing back.
The key is that you can get better, you deserve to get better and you deserve to be happy. I am pulling for you as is everyone else. Don
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 261
response
Dear Lilya,
I heard so much truth and commitment and geniuneness in your post. It inspired me. The Goya quote reminds me of how sometimes when I don't listen to folks like you and learn that way, and sometimes when I am in denial, and I don't want to look at the ugly things that are troubling me, that I work through my issues in dreams, sometimes ugly ones. Sometimes the stuff I need to work through is so ugly -- that is why I deny it -- that it comes out, because it must, but in nightmares. Goya inspired one once. He is truly a gifted artist because he reflects life and realism, I think. Which reminds me of how effective art therapy can be. Thanks for reminding me of that. And you already did reply! I appreciated reading Ron's comments, too. They are helpful, also.
Nancy
I heard so much truth and commitment and geniuneness in your post. It inspired me. The Goya quote reminds me of how sometimes when I don't listen to folks like you and learn that way, and sometimes when I am in denial, and I don't want to look at the ugly things that are troubling me, that I work through my issues in dreams, sometimes ugly ones. Sometimes the stuff I need to work through is so ugly -- that is why I deny it -- that it comes out, because it must, but in nightmares. Goya inspired one once. He is truly a gifted artist because he reflects life and realism, I think. Which reminds me of how effective art therapy can be. Thanks for reminding me of that. And you already did reply! I appreciated reading Ron's comments, too. They are helpful, also.
Nancy
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Northen Europe and France
Posts: 1,657
Thanks for your support.
Thank you Don and Nancy for your wise words. It helped a lot.
I don´t feel bad today, but I´m a bit uneasy. I´m going to Berlin on a short trip and have to attend some film festivals. I will probably meet former colleagues - men I used to work with and who wanted to date me after my divorce, but turned away when they noticed something is terribly wrong with me.
I can also go triumphantly because now I know what´s wrong. At least I will look at this trip as an opportunity to start behaving differently. I know I can be seraine if I want to and choose to.
I used to label these men "bastards" because they turned me down, but now I think of them differently. I even respect them.
About the Goya quote, Nancy: It´s from my favourite drawing of Goya, showing a man sleeping while holding an inkpot and a quill in his hand. Monsters and nocturnal creatures come out of his head. It´s called in French: "Quand la raison dort la folie s´éveille". Meaning: If we let our fear overtake our ability to think rationally, we are plunged in nightmares.
Hope to see you soon when I come from Berlin. And happy 4th of July! Ours is the 14th. The day the Bastille was taken. I hope you have a great holiday.
Love and light,
I don´t feel bad today, but I´m a bit uneasy. I´m going to Berlin on a short trip and have to attend some film festivals. I will probably meet former colleagues - men I used to work with and who wanted to date me after my divorce, but turned away when they noticed something is terribly wrong with me.
I can also go triumphantly because now I know what´s wrong. At least I will look at this trip as an opportunity to start behaving differently. I know I can be seraine if I want to and choose to.
I used to label these men "bastards" because they turned me down, but now I think of them differently. I even respect them.
About the Goya quote, Nancy: It´s from my favourite drawing of Goya, showing a man sleeping while holding an inkpot and a quill in his hand. Monsters and nocturnal creatures come out of his head. It´s called in French: "Quand la raison dort la folie s´éveille". Meaning: If we let our fear overtake our ability to think rationally, we are plunged in nightmares.
Hope to see you soon when I come from Berlin. And happy 4th of July! Ours is the 14th. The day the Bastille was taken. I hope you have a great holiday.
Love and light,
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Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Charleston S.C.
Posts: 1,461
Lilya, Have a great trip. Sounds to me like you are going about this with a good attitude. The willingness to change thought and action patterns are important in getting better. Just remember the longest journey can begin with one small step. I
will look forward to hearing about your trip. Don
will look forward to hearing about your trip. Don
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