bugsworth

I went to an anniversary meeting and am a bit dismayed. Where I live the person having the anniversary has 2 people speaking for them. The first is usually their sponsor, and the second can be anyone. As this persons sponsor was sharing my sponsor leaned over to me and said...."now there's a dry drunk for you." I was puzzled as this man had 12 years of sobriety. After the meeting I asked her what she meant, she said that this person had not done the steps due to the fact he is an atheist, and is not sober in the right way. YIKES!!! I immediately felt horrible. This seems to be somewhat of an issue for alcoholics in general. Is it right to judge anothers sobriety? I mean after all he is SOBER!!! He was a very nice man and his sharing was highly motivating for me. I have to say this leaves me on the fence regarding the integrity of my sponsor. I am not sure how to feel or what to do.

Rowan

Yeah, my first thought was that your sponsor should have kept her mouth shut. I've had the same experience - someone I will find highly motivating has something unkind said about them, and it shatters me. Regardless of the speakers length of sobriety, whether he worked the steps, etc is not for your sponsor to judge. Certainly not aloud to her sponsee. If you feel comfortable enough, why not talk to her about how you feel? It may be something that she needs to hear.
I'm glad you shared this. Thanks.

bugsworth

Thanks Rowan! My sponsor is very rigid in her beliefs and as sweet as she is, tends to be unyeilding in this regard. She tends to say "sober in the right way" alot. I have discussed this with her before, albeit briefly, as it tends to make the hair on the back of my neck stand up. What really bothers me is this man has been sober for 12 years, and shares that relapse was not part of his story. My sponsor, however has 5 years of sobriety and 23 years in the rooms of AA. Tons of relapses. Grrrrrrrrrr Just makes me wonder if she is the right sponsor for me.

Rowan

Hmm. Well, for me, it would be hard to have someone guide me through the steps if I didn't respect them, or their sobriety. I've changed sponsors because of this, more than once. The girl I am with now is wonderful, spiritual, and interested in building a connection with me - all important stuff.
Your sponsor is human, however, and therefore not infallible.

bugsworth

I appreciate that you can identify with me! I really feel I need someone who can be more open minded, our views tend to be opposite in alot of regards. I also think our age difference and life styles are different which tends to make her less understanding of the extra demands on my time.

I totally agree that sponsors are not infallible, infact I think my sponsor could learn from me if she were willing! Is that my ego talking??? LOL

mike_mass

If the atheist has been sober that long he must be doing something right.

Jersey Nonny

First of all, it's never appropriate to take someone else's inventory. One person's "sober in the right way" may be entirely different from another's.

For instance, I will soon be celebrating (God willing) 28 years of continuous sobriety. It might shock and dismay some diehard "rigid" AA's to know I haven't had an official sponsor for many years, nor have I been an official sponsor to anyone for many years. But, I never hesitate to share my ESH with others and I value their ESH in return. That, to me, is a form of "sponsorship" that has helped to keep me sober for these many years.

In addition, I have never actually "worked" the steps with a sponsor, including the important fourth and fifth steps. But, at two years sober, I sought counseling for a sudden bout with depression. My counselor was a member of Al-Anon whose father was an alcoholic, so she had plently of experience with alcoholics and alcoholism. I don't think I could have done a more thorough fourth and fifth steps with an AA sponsor than I did during the six months of counseling I spent with her.

After successfully dealing with the depression, I was prepared to move forward with the next seven steps which really didn't require the assistance of a sponsor. I have continued to incorporate those steps in my daily living for the past 25 years, and I am content and confident in the quality of my sobriety. It may not be "by the book" for some folks, but it has worked very well thus far. So, at least for me, I consider that I am "sober in the right way".

Now, understand that I am not minimizing the importance of a sponsor, especially in early sobriety. But, not having a sponsor shouldn't prevent one from working the steps...it isn't rocket science, folks...they're very clearly spelled out...and, there's plenty of explanatory literature on them to use as a guide.

bugsworth

Thank You for your response Jersey!
Sponsorship IMO can be both positive and negative depending on the character of a sponsor. Unfortunately sometimes a little sobriety can go to ones head.

Do recovering alcoholics automatically become sane, wise, kindly advisors, knowledgeable priests and ministers, and competent recovery counselors, just because they quit drinking alcohol? I think not.

You are truly an inspiration......28 years huuurahhhhh!!!! Thank you for sharing with me!

Jersey Nonny

Quote:

Thank you for sharing with me!

My pleasure! Thanks for being here...without Newcomers, AA, NA, SR, and all other recovery groups would die out, along with the demise of the Oldtimers. We need you to continue passing on the messages of Experience, Strength, and Hope.

Octoman

I find the whole dry drunk concept hard to fathom to be honest. To me its a straight forward case of being successful in not drinking. If that is achieved then the person is successful in their goal, irrespective of the process they use. The persons mental welbeing and `spiritual health` although linked can actually be addressed in a number of different ways, one of which is the twelve steps. to suggest someones sobriety is somehow unimportant because they have found a different path is actually contrary to the spirit of understanding that the 12 steps embodies.

To me it is just fanaticism when I hear statements like that. It finds its way into everything which is unfortunate but fanatics really are unrepresentative and in the minority. In the case of AA is pretty harmless as well. I have never heard a case of someone wishing harm on another for not following the 12 steps correctly!

At the end of the day the vast majority of people are just working quietly on their sobriety, supporting others in their quest and doing whatever they need to do to get through this. Like us here

bugsworth

Great post Octoman, I so agree with you.

When I entered AA I wanted to quit drinking, I was down for the count, like us all.

If you told me to stand on my head for twenty minutes every time I had a craving I would have done it. Hey you never know this might work...lol

Unfortunately it never occured to me that ones sobriety could be judged good or bad. To me sober is sober.

NOMOMERLOTMAMMA

I beg to differ..my partner has six years of sobriety. I don't like the term "dry drunk" but if you ask her she would say the last 5 of those six (give up the last few months where she went back to AA)were spent in a dry drunk. I think what she means is that she wasn't following what she learned in AA, and her behaviors were like when she was actively drinking, cept without the alcohol.

However, I do agree with not judging anybody on how they stay sober. If this person inspired you, well then he's done what he's meant to do. Good for him!

Slogon time: Take what you can and leave the rest.

GrouchoTheCat

Good Sober and 'Bad' Sober?

Sober is good any way you look at it!

If you are uncomfortable with your sponsor, you may wish to find another.

When someone is new I think it is an excellent idea to get a sponsor right away.

However, we can think for ourselves, and if you are deeply troubled by the thoughts or comments of your sponsor, find someone that you can relate to better.

JMHO,

Ted

Jfanagle

If we could just get the people out of AA; the principals and goals are damn near perfect!!

I love the interaction of a whole bunch of struggling drunks and ex-drunks in their search for a better life. The vitality and the silliness that that struggle exudes is to me the very life blood of AA. I look at my ability to accept some other jackanapes and his or her crazy views about the fellowship and the steps, and statements that I sometimes hear in meetings, as part of my becoming a better and therefore more "sober" individual. Tolerence and understanding are virtues that really make up a sober individual in my opinion.

However above all else I just want to be recognized for all the opportunities that I have provided and continue to provide for the rest of the members of AA when I make my ridiculous statements!!

Jon

Pilgrim

On the positive side, she may just have been trying to show you the difference between the "just dont pick up a drink today" which is not such a nice way to live and the "recovered" alcoholic who, like many here, know the joy and release we get from doing the steps and having a spiritual experience.

Sometimes people get carried away. None of us are saints.

Let's not take her inventory either.

I would stick with her. It sounds like maybe she has had the spiritual experience from doing the steps. Be open with her about not wanting to judge other people's efforts.

God bless.

bugsworth

Thanks Ted...Sober is great!

My sponsor approached me at my first meeting. Needless to say when she asked if I wanted a sponsor I said of course! Hopefully we can agree to disagree on some subjects and move on. If not I will have to make a change. Thanks again.