Codependent vs Enabler Question
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 30
Codependent vs Enabler Question
Can someone pleeeeease give me a SIMPLE explanation for the difference between codie and enabler? I am trying to figure out if I am either or both of these, and whenever I ask someone for an explanation, I get a long, complicated answer and I can't wrap my head around it. I think I am secretly resisiting acceptance that this may be what I am.
Thanks so much!
Thanks so much!
Belgian Sheepdog Adictee
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In Today
Posts: 6,101
To me I have never thought there was a difference, lol. When I am being codependent then I am enabling, never fails.
And 'enabling' by the way, in my book, is doing something for another that they need to be doing themselves.
J M H O
Love and hugs,
And 'enabling' by the way, in my book, is doing something for another that they need to be doing themselves.
J M H O
Love and hugs,
Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,579
Originally Posted by laurie6781 
To me I have never thought there was a difference, lol. When I am being codependent then I am enabling, never fails.
And 'enabling' by the way, in my book, is doing something for another that they need to be doing themselves.
J M H O
Love and hugs,
And 'enabling' by the way, in my book, is doing something for another that they need to be doing themselves.
J M H O
Love and hugs,
I think Laurie summed it up, at least as I see it. "Codie" is a noun and "enabling" a verb (usually an action of a codie).
Guest
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,826
To me they are one and the same. When we're in full blown co-dependency we are full blown enablers.
Earthworm
Earthworm
Originally Posted by Pencil Pusher
Can someone pleeeeease give me a SIMPLE explanation for the difference between codie and enabler? I am trying to figure out if I am either or both of these, and whenever I ask someone for an explanation, I get a long, complicated answer and I can't wrap my head around it. I think I am secretly resisiting acceptance that this may be what I am.
Thanks so much!
Thanks so much!
it is what it is...
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 179
Good question pencil pusher. I didn't know myself. Never really thought about it. So id they are one in the same - somebody give thier definition of co-dependant. To me that sounds like I need them. I don't see myself as needing anyone. I can do anything by myself. I get through depression on my own, I can build walls, lay carpet, build shelves, tables, lay flooring I am a small person so this is hard for me but I do it. I work, pay my bills, be a friend, be an auntie, daughter, sister. I can spend 3 days all alone and hear from no one and not be depressed about it. I've stopped helping people that won't help themselves. I have learned to take care of myself first.
He is gone and I don't need him. But I know I am not recovered from this disease.
??????? B
He is gone and I don't need him. But I know I am not recovered from this disease.
??????? B
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 5,075
I believe in co-dependency in the strictest sense of the word - behaviors based on my involvement with someone who is dependent on a substance. I don't believe co-dependency is a separate "disease." Enabling is getting in the way of someone feeling the consequences of their addiction. My enabling behavior was based in denial, as it never dawned on me I was not the reason AH drank to excess until in one week I talked to our doctor, went to my first Al-Anon meetings, saw AH's therapist and started with my own. Having about 60 people tell me the three C's set me on the path of changing my enabling ways.
I think everyone can exhibit what have been classified as co-dependent traits. As was mentioned in another post, it's all in the context.
JMHO
I think everyone can exhibit what have been classified as co-dependent traits. As was mentioned in another post, it's all in the context.
JMHO
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: anomaly
Posts: 2,180
enable due to fear, therefore the cycle of dependency or addiction continues.
it takes two to mingle.. the dependent and the CO-.
the addict/alki are addicted to the substance
the codi becomes addict to the dramma or chaos..basically doing all the cover
up for the aiddict/alki or try to get the user to stop...
which makes the codi sicker or loonier than the alki/addicts.
bascially...your life centers around drugs and alcohol one way or the other.
it takes two to mingle.. the dependent and the CO-.
the addict/alki are addicted to the substance
the codi becomes addict to the dramma or chaos..basically doing all the cover
up for the aiddict/alki or try to get the user to stop...
which makes the codi sicker or loonier than the alki/addicts.
bascially...your life centers around drugs and alcohol one way or the other.
Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: England
Posts: 3,410
From Wikipedia:
(note certain I agree with all of that, but it's a useful talking point, i think.)
I don't see codependence as a disease, either, but then that should come as no surprise to some of you!! Nor is it a disorder in the DSM-IV, but then neither is alcoholism. However, it is useful to me to have a group of behavious collected under one term, for shorthand. Whilst the concept of codependence grew from the term co-alcoholic, I see the exact same group of behaviours in those who have never been in an alcoholic relationship, my Mum for example, from whom I learnt those same coping mechanisms. They were never a huge issue for me, though, until I got involved with an alcoholic and then they were honed to perfection.
Enabling is one of those behaviours that fits into the grouping. And it needen't just apply to a substance abuser.
Symptoms of codependence are controlling behavior, distrust, perfectionism, avoidance of feelings, problems with intimacy, excessive caretaking, hypervigilance or physical illness related to stress. Codependence is often accompanied by depression, as the codependent person succumbs to feelings of frustration or sadness over his or her inability to improve the situation.
Codependence can also be a set of maladaptive, compulsive behaviors learned by family members in order to survive in a family which is experiencing great emotional pain and stress caused, for example, by a family member's alcoholism or other addiction, sexual or other abuse within the family, a family member's chronic illness, or forces external to the family, such as poverty.
Codependency advocates claim that a codependent may feel shame about, or try to change, his or her most private thoughts and feelings if they conflict with those of another person. An example would be a wife making excuses for her husband's excessive drinking and perhaps running interference for him by calling in sick for him when he is hung over. Such behaviors, which may well lessen conflict and ease tension within the family in the short term, are counterproductive in the long term, since, in this case, the wife is actually supporting ("enabling") the husband's drinking behavior. So, sometimes, the codependent is referred to as an "enabler." It is also worth noting that since the wife in this case is dependent on the husband's alcoholic behavior, she may actually feel disturbed, disoriented or threatened if she sees clearly that he is emerging from his dependence; the threat to her position as a confidante and needed loved one might lead her unconsciously to resist the husband's steps towards recovery. Similarly, a codependent parent might resist his or her child's steps toward independence; whether early or late in life.
Codependent people have a greater tendency to enter into relationships with people who are emotionally unavailable or needy. The codependent tries to control a relationship without directly identifying and addressing his or her own needs and desires. This invariably means that codependents set themselves up for continued unfulfillment. Codependents always feel that they are acting in another person's best interest, making it difficult for them to see the controlling nature of their own behavior.
Codependence can also be a set of maladaptive, compulsive behaviors learned by family members in order to survive in a family which is experiencing great emotional pain and stress caused, for example, by a family member's alcoholism or other addiction, sexual or other abuse within the family, a family member's chronic illness, or forces external to the family, such as poverty.
Codependency advocates claim that a codependent may feel shame about, or try to change, his or her most private thoughts and feelings if they conflict with those of another person. An example would be a wife making excuses for her husband's excessive drinking and perhaps running interference for him by calling in sick for him when he is hung over. Such behaviors, which may well lessen conflict and ease tension within the family in the short term, are counterproductive in the long term, since, in this case, the wife is actually supporting ("enabling") the husband's drinking behavior. So, sometimes, the codependent is referred to as an "enabler." It is also worth noting that since the wife in this case is dependent on the husband's alcoholic behavior, she may actually feel disturbed, disoriented or threatened if she sees clearly that he is emerging from his dependence; the threat to her position as a confidante and needed loved one might lead her unconsciously to resist the husband's steps towards recovery. Similarly, a codependent parent might resist his or her child's steps toward independence; whether early or late in life.
Codependent people have a greater tendency to enter into relationships with people who are emotionally unavailable or needy. The codependent tries to control a relationship without directly identifying and addressing his or her own needs and desires. This invariably means that codependents set themselves up for continued unfulfillment. Codependents always feel that they are acting in another person's best interest, making it difficult for them to see the controlling nature of their own behavior.
I don't see codependence as a disease, either, but then that should come as no surprise to some of you!! Nor is it a disorder in the DSM-IV, but then neither is alcoholism. However, it is useful to me to have a group of behavious collected under one term, for shorthand. Whilst the concept of codependence grew from the term co-alcoholic, I see the exact same group of behaviours in those who have never been in an alcoholic relationship, my Mum for example, from whom I learnt those same coping mechanisms. They were never a huge issue for me, though, until I got involved with an alcoholic and then they were honed to perfection.
Enabling is one of those behaviours that fits into the grouping. And it needen't just apply to a substance abuser.
Royalty
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 366
I don't need a title. (Unless you want to call me Goddess LOL)
My own personal belief is that once one gets a "label" then they use that as a reason to continue being that way. For example, labeling my daughter "not a morning person", let's her continue to reek havoc upon wakening. Labeling me a codependant lets me say "oh well, that's just the way I am" and keep on doing the same things. I prefer to spend more time looking at the behaviors, and try to change myself, or at least not repeat the same old patterns.
My own personal belief is that once one gets a "label" then they use that as a reason to continue being that way. For example, labeling my daughter "not a morning person", let's her continue to reek havoc upon wakening. Labeling me a codependant lets me say "oh well, that's just the way I am" and keep on doing the same things. I prefer to spend more time looking at the behaviors, and try to change myself, or at least not repeat the same old patterns.
Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: England
Posts: 3,410
I can't say I have ever used the "I'm a codependent" excuse to explain any poor behaviour on my part, or the part of others. It was a useful starting point, though, to examine the coping behaviours I brought from my childhood and misapplied in my adult life. I'm not a morning person either, but I work around that one and no-one would ever know.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: anomaly
Posts: 2,180
i don't compair myself to anyone or to the what you deem normal people
or normal drinkers or social drinkers...
To me..it's just a matter of time until they hit bottom or wake up
or future are members.lol. Alcohol and drug use is so embeded in
our soceity
why do I have that veiw ?..becuase i got sober at a young age..
some people don't hit the doors of recovery until in thier later life.
Bascially my so call normies friends, co-workers are more wacked out
or dysfunctional than me in so many ways..I see those people going
down that path that i've already traveled..been there and done that.
As if I've nevered party my ass off, went to work., paid my bills
or was functional for years drinking and using before...
The longer i stay sober and work my program..the more i will relize it
or see it much clearer.
I need to be really careful..when I step out into society and
I take everythings as a grain of salt. When I mingle with the
so call normal people...why ?
becuase i hear a lot of crap that comes out of there mouth
or perceptions that I use to have..before I got into recovery.
or normal drinkers or social drinkers...
To me..it's just a matter of time until they hit bottom or wake up
or future are members.lol. Alcohol and drug use is so embeded in
our soceity
why do I have that veiw ?..becuase i got sober at a young age..
some people don't hit the doors of recovery until in thier later life.
Bascially my so call normies friends, co-workers are more wacked out
or dysfunctional than me in so many ways..I see those people going
down that path that i've already traveled..been there and done that.
As if I've nevered party my ass off, went to work., paid my bills
or was functional for years drinking and using before...
The longer i stay sober and work my program..the more i will relize it
or see it much clearer.
I need to be really careful..when I step out into society and
I take everythings as a grain of salt. When I mingle with the
so call normal people...why ?
becuase i hear a lot of crap that comes out of there mouth
or perceptions that I use to have..before I got into recovery.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Durango, Colorado
Posts: 9
I've been both
I think being a codependent is when you live for that person; you'd do anything for them, even die. I'm not in that situation right now, not anymore, thankfully.
Enabling? I feel I've been enabling two people in my life, by not holding them accountable for the callous way they were treating me. One person was downright vicious, and I cut him out of my life. Another wasn't so much vicious as self-absorbed; she totally ignored my problems and rambled on and on about hers. My problems are not small, either. But they were to her!! I cut her out of my life, and that's why I'm here on these boards. I feel in my heart I did the right thing, but would like to talk to others who sympathize. Oh yeah, they're both drunks. They don't deny it, either, but they think they have a handle on things. They do not.
Enabling? I feel I've been enabling two people in my life, by not holding them accountable for the callous way they were treating me. One person was downright vicious, and I cut him out of my life. Another wasn't so much vicious as self-absorbed; she totally ignored my problems and rambled on and on about hers. My problems are not small, either. But they were to her!! I cut her out of my life, and that's why I'm here on these boards. I feel in my heart I did the right thing, but would like to talk to others who sympathize. Oh yeah, they're both drunks. They don't deny it, either, but they think they have a handle on things. They do not.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: midwest
Posts: 231
I think I am a codependent , but I no longer enable. I feel I have always been codependent as in raised in alcoholic home, married to an alcoholic. I know I have enabled in the past, but I feel I am aware and no longer do that. I could be wrong.
I think maybe I will always be codependent and it is something I always have to work on, like alcoholism is chronic. I obsess about other people and care too much about them and not enough about myself. I think to enable is to buy the beer, etc..
Hope that helps
I think maybe I will always be codependent and it is something I always have to work on, like alcoholism is chronic. I obsess about other people and care too much about them and not enough about myself. I think to enable is to buy the beer, etc..
Hope that helps
Fool To Do Your Dirty Work
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Greenflower Street
Posts: 362
May I suggest reading Codependent No More if you haven't already? It was suggested to me by several members here before I actually went out and bought it (b/c that couldn't possibly be me....) let's just say it was very enlightening. I am now reading Beyond Codependency. Enjoying it so far and already can't wait to go back and read the first one again. I just have the feeling there will always be something more to be taken from it as I progress in my recovery. Best to you.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 30
Hi all- thanks so much for your responses! I feel I have a better grasp of the concept now. And I am not really trying to label myself in order to excuse any behavior, but to recognize the behaviors for what they are, rather than thinking i am just doing it because it's the right thing. Also, I wish to move on at some point, and want to work on these things so I don't find someone who is the same way.
Hey Denny- So are you saying that just being involved with a person who is a user is being codependent? No matter what that involvement looks like?
Thanks!
Hey Denny- So are you saying that just being involved with a person who is a user is being codependent? No matter what that involvement looks like?
Thanks!
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 5,075
Originally Posted by Pencil Pusher
Hey Denny- So are you saying that just being involved with a person who is a user is being codependent? No matter what that involvement looks like?
Thanks!
Thanks!
It's still complicated for me - I had some very healthy, normal relationships. However, my first "serious" bf did a lot of coke and I ended that relationship because of it. Never looked back. Then my marriage was to an alcoholic. I'm still figuring it all out and I'm sure my thoughts and opinions will evolve on it. All I have right now is that both those men were artists.
((()))
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