barb dwyer

... for me.

I learned about the slippery slope that is gossip: I learned how weak I am, how terribly gossip affects my connection with my HP, I learned what attitude energies I want to be aligned with, and what energies I don't want to be aligned with ...

zowie.
There’s individuals who talk about ideas, and concepts. There’s individuals who talk about politics, current events, and practical application of the steps, spirituality, and morals into their daily lives.
These people … I like these people.
Their conversations spring from their commitment to recovery. Even when deep into a challenging game of cards, or pool, or scrabble - their comments to each other reflect a perspective that comes from within perceptions that are being changed and developed by the steps.
Talking recovery from the inside … out.

Then there’s the group that talks about … each other. Other people. Their problems. Their faults. Their shortcomings. Their resentments toward the people in the other two groups. They’re a pretty tight little group, always sitting together, and it looks for all the world like they’re having a great time. They talk about recovery, talk about it all the time – but - I’ve learned this past two weeks that these people are in truth, quite draining. Their influence on me leaves me feeling anxious and depleted. Sometimes, I can’t seem to get up and move away from them fast enough. Yet, if I’m not dilligent … I’m soon sucked back into that spiral again, sometimes subtly, sometimes sensationally. The inability to notice I'm getting sucked in is what's scandalizing me right now. I thought I was smarter than that. Then again ... I thought I could control my drinking, didn't I?
I think I get lonely, or just plain bored and whip up, or jump right into a bit o’drama for the hell of it. Some of these people don’t know any other way to be. Their talk is recovery – but their actions are still in the bar.
That’s talking recovery … from the outside.

Now, they're not evil, or 'dark' ... or anything like that - it's just that I seem to know ... different. I guess it is a form of judgement, but when it all boils down, there's simply a better way to be. I already am both types. I choose to focus on the first type.

The God of my understanding speaks to me through the words and actions of both sorts; I will not close myself off from them, however … for this time in my recovery … I can only be surrounded by the one kind. As for the other kind, I can accept them, encourage them, support them, laugh, joke, be friendly … I simply cannot afford to be one OF them.

I need to be hanging on the inside ... looking out through my recovery.

sorry this was so wordy!
thanks for letting me share... how'd YOUR week go?

CarolD

Wow! I think that was a terrific share!



My week?

Finished my Christmas gifts

Had good news at my eye doctors
My vision has not worsened

Went on a day trip with my Senior Group
The Governors mansion is soo impressive
We also had lunch in Atlanta and shopped


Shared in 4 of my home group AA meetings
and have hours on here as a supplement

Enjoyed hours of AA fellowship and time with
my son Food and conversation..love 'em!!

My life flows on so smoothly
God has blessed me!

Forward we go Deb

mikel60

Hi Barb,
Mike in Boston here. That was a great share. I fully believe that many of the problems people have with AA can be attributable to the unfortunate gossip and focus on personalities that can occur at meetings. When I first came to AA I wanted to be part of the so-called cool group. I couldn't fit in with them, yet I kept trying. I blamed myself and figured I was some kind of loser . I so desperately wanted to fit in that I nearly left AA over it. Little did I know that the real sober and cool group was sitting just over the other side of the room. They accepted me unconditionally, intoduced me to the steps, and made me realize that there is no cool group. We're all in this together. Thanks again, Mike

barb dwyer

Carol wrote -
"Went on a day trip with my Senior Group
The Governors mansion is soo impressive
We also had lunch in Atlanta and shopped"

*remembering the bra story* LOL

Thanks Carol! That's great about the eye doctor, too!

And Thank you, MikeL- it's good to know it's a human thing, and not just a 'this location' thing. I know I often felt the same stuff you talked about - self-conscious, too fat, too tall, paranoid...
hey-
Howzzat new baby?
got a job yet?

mikel60

Hey Barb,
Liam is doing very well. He is definitely very cool... and he lets me hang out with him. So does his sister, Sheila She's two. Thanks for asking, and enjoy the day. mike

miss communicat

Hi Barb,

Thanks for the thread and the topics you raised about the qualities of recovery. I especially appreciate the way you brought your observations around to you, your work, your recovery. It shows great , well...recovery!

"Slippery attitudes and slippery thought patterns" such as getting into gossip, negativism, draining relationships.... this is an area in my life that I need the most constant vigilance, second only to not drinking alcohol.

I can feel the efects of overindulging in any of these behaviours just as if I had a hangover. You're right: it blocks the creative and beneficial connection to my HP in my own life when I am standing on a high horse looking askance at another. It does not add quality to anyones experience.

I tend to do it (gossip) with certain people when I am not right inside, usually if I am angry or stressed out.

But, I'm getting better. Yesterday, my coworker (in the program) and I had lunch and I listened to her tell a story about a 3rd friend, which was laced with insults and gossipy barbs. I could tell that I am getting emotionally better because the drama wasnt interesting to me.

I actually had nothing to contribute to it, so I didnt. I changed the topic.

Later on, there was another similar scenario. Same thing: genuine neutrality and disinterest in tearing someone else down or in judging their progress in life.

Like you, I am realizing that I'm more drawn towards people, places and things that are positive and healthy for me.

I feel almost the way I did when first "the obsession to drink was miraculously lifted from me". The desire to mud wrestle (lol~). Gone.

But I'll keep my eyes open still.

GlassPrisoner

Change meetings.

I hate to say it, but there is a particular meeting I really don't like to attend. If I were still a newcomer, this meeting would probably turn me away for the reasons you listed.

miss communicat

I like what Barb says:
Talking recovery from the inside … out.
I need to be hanging on the inside ... looking out through my recovery.


Sometimes you do have to change meetings and change external conditions but its not always possible, or the way to lasting growth.

reminds me of the serenity saying:

we ask for courage to change the things we can, and for the serenity to accept the things we cannot change.....this includes changing our inner responses to tempting situations, people and substances when we cannot change the meetings, the people we are close to, or the fact that alcohol is everywhere in the world too.

progress, not perfection....

Heartinpieces

thanks barb for this post. i've been struggling lately in regards to personalities in the rooms and am constantly telling myself PRINCIPLES first. i'm really glad i read this thread, i feel like my HP directed me right to it!

aasharon90

Thanks Barb for sharing. Good stuff. Thumbs up for ya..! : )

barb dwyer

thanks everyone!
it felt like a kinda slow week on the postings ... I thought maybe everyone was having their own struggles, too ...
I talked with an oldtimer I like particularly well about this tonight and he directed me to the BB pg.417...there's the answer!
about acceptance being the key to everything.
to summarise (that's a WAY long paragraph) it basically says that until we KNOW that everything is exactly as the Creator dreamed it to be, we'll continue to have problems with people, places and things. Everything is exactly as it should be.
If I'm not the problem - there IS no solution.
manoman - I love this Program!

I do go to other groups, too.
BUt - it doesn't matter HOW people are working the Program ... just that they are doing it at all.

Kellye C

Principles before personalities - man oh man - I still struggle with this at times. My home group is great for the most part but there are a few members who would test the patience of Job. I was taught early on when I didn't like someone in the group or they angered me to pray for that person for 30 days asking that they be given all the good things I would like for myself. I was told to do it even though it felt false at first. The first time I actually had to put it into practice I thought I'd choke on the words. I continued despite my aversion to this and I actually was able to forgive this person, accept them as they were and actually become somewhat friendly with him before he passed away (he had been battling terminal cancer and wasn't always the nicest person to be around). The next one is someone who bugged the crap out of most members of the group. It was all I could do to stay in my seat when he came in because he was/is so loud and obnoxious. The praying once again helped. I can't say that I jump up and greet him with open arms when he shows up but I can remain civil to him and I can even get past the exterior and listen to the message instead which I could not do before.

As for the gossip my sponsor gave me a test to use prior to my saying anything about another person. 1) Does it need to be said? 2) Does it need to be said now? and 3) Does it need to be said by me? She also has shown me by example how to handle gossipers. She turns it around on them and asks them what in the world motivated them to share whatever it is they just said. Shuts em up pretty quick. She's done it to me before and even made me go and make an amends to someone who I "confided" something in that I had no business confiding when I was in earlier recovery. I can't control what comes out of others mouths but I can control what comes out of mine and I can choose to stick around and listen for juicy tidbits or I can take the higher road and remove myself from that toxic environment. That leads me to my last observation - toxic people. For me there are people that are toxic to my emotional well-being and my recovery. Being in their presence and being sucked into their negativity drains me of everything I have. At that point I am of no use to anyone including myself. I am becoming better at spotting these toxic people and keeping my distance from them.

Finally, that acceptance is the key in the story that you referred to is awesome. For me perspective is everything and colors how I feel about myself and others. The less I place expectations on others and accept that others are where they are supposed to be at regardless of what I think of it I am able to detach much better - to live and let live.

Barb this is an awesome topic! It sounds to me like you are doing great in your own recovery.

Hugs,
Kellye

Tazman53

Powerful topic and timely for me. There is this one person who I had always thought to myself was for lack of a better word a braggard, I listened to him when he shared and that is just the way he struck me. I kept my mouth shut about what I felt about him, but it still bugged me.

Well Saturday morning at a BB study he was there and shared something about his working the 4th & 5th step that really told me that my perception of him was beyond wrong. After the meeting I pulled him aside and told him both how much his sharing had brought to me and also how it had erased my intial perception of him. I kind of thought I had made a mistake at first because he seemed taken aback, he said very little except "Thanks.... I think" Well I saw him again Sunday morning at a speakers meeting and he was truly glad to see me and gave me a big hug..... I knew all was well.

You know in thinking about what has been brought up here, maybe a way to help others would be to try to use it as a topic at a meeting with the folks who could benefit from it. I would pray before bringing it up as a topic to be sure you brought it up in a manner that would not hurt feelings but still possibly teach something.

chip

Wow, this is a great thread.

I'm with Kellye regarding the 12th trad. There are many personalites in AA. My sponsor told me that if I like everyone in AA, I'm not going to enough meetings. If I still like everyone in AA, I should go to AA business meetings....

Personally, I try and hang out with positive people.

I know what you are talking about, Deb. Today, a negative person started talking gossip to me. I didn't contribute, but I didn't push that person away either. I work in the bar business, and I'm no stranger to the danger of gossip. I've always had a personal policy of having gossip stop with me. I refuse to take it further, and contribute to it's growth.

You brought up some great discussion. Thanks for sharing!
chip

soldierbilly

He who talks to you about them will talk them about you !
Regards
Soldierbilly

barb dwyer

agreed, soldierbilly -

funny someons posted on this tonight - this same issue reared its head tonight at the meeting too.
huh
worlds collide, I guess.

I did muster the courage to sit down with this person and let them know that I'd rather not be affiliated with that sort of energy ... but if there was something I coudl do that might affect their sobriety, or help them find stuff in the BB to help - I was all over that.

<g>

Lbad

Hi Barb! Great thread!

eagle38

just wanted to say that this is indeed a timely topic and one that serves well to be a reminder for me to "think" about and revisit during the course of my day today.

thanks Barb

barb dwyer

****{lbadeker}}} hiya!

thanks ****{everyone}}}
- I'm glad once again to learn I'm not alone in these perceptions. There's been (over the past couple of weeks since my posting this) a few hard feelings at the club, but I try to maintain my spiritual space and the conviction that it's just not 'healthy' for me to be associated with certain attitudes right now.
Someday, maybe, I'll be tough enough to just wade right through ... but right now it's an insidious situation for me.
whew.
It's so good to learn we're not alone, isn't it?

Tazman53

Barb gossip sounds like a REALLY good topic for the next meeting!

I know sometimes until I am in a group talking on a subject that I was unaware I was doing it suddenly will open my eyes to what I am doing wrong. Not a single finger pointed, no accusations, not one word said behind some ones back, yet that very topic coming up at the right meetings may be just what the doctor ordered.