Kind of OT -- Thoughts on this quote?
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Kind of OT -- Thoughts on this quote?
I read a quote in an article that I thought was interesting, but I also am not sure I am interpreting it correctly. I thought you wise people might offer your insight. 
Thoughts.......?
If we abuse our minds enough with self-hatred and self-condemnation, somehow that abuse will be a path that liberates us, but generosity coming from self-hatred becomes martyrdom.
- Sharon Salzberg
- Sharon Salzberg
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This words "self hatred and self-condemnation" are not appealing to me. I would say instead: understanding self, surrender of self, honesty with and about self. I see no value in this part of the quote..in fact it appears very wrong imo.
"Generosity coming from self-hatred becomes martyrdom" may describe enabling behavior. I do not equate this with being generous out of love or a 'self-lessness' that does not harm myself or another. To truly give out of generousity is to expect nothing in return. Classic examples of codependent behavior are 'giving' and 'doing for' someone who is better served by allowing them to do for themselves. The giver who controls and expects another to 'pay back' or would be acting like martyr- or seeking it out. A true martyr-in a positive light, IMO gives of themselves for a 'greater cause' such as a hero in battle who dies to protect a buddy, or a mom or dad who sacrifice their lives to save a dying child.The word martyr, has different connotations depending on the context used.
"Generosity coming from self-hatred becomes martyrdom" may describe enabling behavior. I do not equate this with being generous out of love or a 'self-lessness' that does not harm myself or another. To truly give out of generousity is to expect nothing in return. Classic examples of codependent behavior are 'giving' and 'doing for' someone who is better served by allowing them to do for themselves. The giver who controls and expects another to 'pay back' or would be acting like martyr- or seeking it out. A true martyr-in a positive light, IMO gives of themselves for a 'greater cause' such as a hero in battle who dies to protect a buddy, or a mom or dad who sacrifice their lives to save a dying child.The word martyr, has different connotations depending on the context used.
Main Entry: [1]mar·tyr
Pronunciation: 'mär-t&r
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English, from Late Latin, from Greek martyr-, martys, literally, witness
Date: before 12th century
1 : a person who voluntarily suffers death as the penalty of witnessing to and refusing to renounce a religion
2 : a person who sacrifices something of great value and especially life itself for the sake of principle
3 : VICTIM; especially : a great or constant sufferer <a martyr to asthma all his life —A. J. Cronin>
- mar·tyr·i·za·tion /"mär-t&-r&-'zA-sh&n/ noun
- mar·tyr·ize /'mär-t&-"rIz/ transitive verb
Merriam-Webster Dictionary
Pronunciation: 'mär-t&r
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English, from Late Latin, from Greek martyr-, martys, literally, witness
Date: before 12th century
1 : a person who voluntarily suffers death as the penalty of witnessing to and refusing to renounce a religion
2 : a person who sacrifices something of great value and especially life itself for the sake of principle
3 : VICTIM; especially : a great or constant sufferer <a martyr to asthma all his life —A. J. Cronin>
- mar·tyr·i·za·tion /"mär-t&-r&-'zA-sh&n/ noun
- mar·tyr·ize /'mär-t&-"rIz/ transitive verb
Merriam-Webster Dictionary
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Sometimes it is necessary to recognize the helpful nature of our emotions and to acknowledge their power and potential to be of benefit to us. It is not fair to accuse and blame our emotions all the time.
--From Wild Awakening, by Dzogchen Ponlop
Emotions are not the enemy; they're the raw material we have to work with. Emotions are humbling, and they ultimately undermine the self-centered trips we have about them, the biggest being that nobody feels that way but me.
--From Wild Awakening, by Dzogchen Ponlop
Emotions are not the enemy; they're the raw material we have to work with. Emotions are humbling, and they ultimately undermine the self-centered trips we have about them, the biggest being that nobody feels that way but me.
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My first response to the quote is, Huh?
So's the second response.
The only sense I can make of the first part, is that you might get tired of the pain from the self abuse and seek to change. I agree that the second part seems to be describing co dependency.
Still my response is, Huh? Maybe in context it would make more sense ...
So's the second response.
The only sense I can make of the first part, is that you might get tired of the pain from the self abuse and seek to change. I agree that the second part seems to be describing co dependency.
Still my response is, Huh? Maybe in context it would make more sense ...
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I ditto mushroom that is what I got out of it too. I could look at the second part this way generosity meaning a do gooder possibly a codie, maybe we end up being the martyr for our do gooder enabling......Huh? what do you think I feel like I put a good spin on that. LOL
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I really thought about it a lot because I am often trying to understand martyrdom, but I couldn't figure it out.
I went looking for the entire passage, and here's what I found...
I went looking for the entire passage, and here's what I found...
In certain philosophical systems in India during the Buddha’s time, it was believed that if the body was tortured enough, abused enough, the spirit would soar free and be liberated. Nowadays most of us are not inclined to torture our bodies to free our spirits. However, we do seem to have our own variation of that theme by believing that if we abuse our minds enough with self-hatred and self-condemnation, somehow that abuse will be a path that liberates us.
For a true spiritual transformation to flourish, we must see beyond this tendency to mental self-flagellation. Spirituality based on self-hatred can never sustain itself. Generosity coming from self-hatred becomes martyrdom. Morality born of self-hatred becomes rigid repression. Love for others without the foundation of love for ourselves becomes a loss of boundaries, codependency, and a painful and fruitless search for intimacy. But when we contact, through meditation, our true nature, we can allow others to also find theirs.
For a true spiritual transformation to flourish, we must see beyond this tendency to mental self-flagellation. Spirituality based on self-hatred can never sustain itself. Generosity coming from self-hatred becomes martyrdom. Morality born of self-hatred becomes rigid repression. Love for others without the foundation of love for ourselves becomes a loss of boundaries, codependency, and a painful and fruitless search for intimacy. But when we contact, through meditation, our true nature, we can allow others to also find theirs.
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