Marcus

I am not quite sure why I am posting this, but I received a phone call that shook me up a bit and trying to process it.

I don't post a lot these days (almost never start a thread) but got a phone call from an old counselor of mine. I used to see him quite regularly and he was a big help to me when struggling to get clean. I have over 2 years now and think he was a big part in that.

Last time we talked (maybe 8 months ago) he had left the treatment facility that I used to go to because there were major changes to management and he just wasn't happy. I was planning on hooking up with him again where ever he landed next.

He was an addict with 10 years clean. He had struggled for the better part of 15 years trying to get off heroin. After a few years clean he went back to college and got a degree in psychology and was working as an addictions counselor. Anyway he is licensed but was trying to go up a level and get another license so he could start his own thing. I guess he had a charge on his record that was upped to a violent felony (he used to be a "booster" grabbing things from stores and pawning them for drugs). Anyway I am sure you can tell where this is going.

I have found that many people working in the recovery field are recovering addicts themselves. It becomes a calling for many people who have made it out (or at least appear to have made it out). So he goes on to explain how the board rejected his application and went into a deep depression and started using again. Now I am thinking okay but why the hell is he calling me - I know addicts and am waiting for the can you help me out. Then he says I would NEVER ask you to cop dope, but know you were on methadone years ago and wondered if you knew anyone who could get me 200 mgs so I could try to do a quick 5 day detox.

Anyway it completely threw me for a loop. I am not thinking of trying to report the guy or anything. It is more just the anxiety it caused. My stomach dropped - I literally felt sick. This guy was a rock and someone I looked up to and now he sounded like just another junky needing to cop. I am sure it was an impossible phone call for him to make, but I think most of us understand desperation and what you would do to get your fix when you are in full on addict mode.

I am not sure what I am looking for here, but just felt like I needed to share it somewhere. Makes me realize NO ADDICT is immune to relapse. That is a pretty disheartening thing when I think about it. Not trying to be a downer, but it goes to show you the struggle we all deal with. If you are not working on recovery you just might be working on a relapse. Sorry to get so preachy, but it really threw me for a loop and I am reassessing my own situation. Am I really as strong as I think I am and hope I can be?

I am not trying to say don't see a counselor OR don't reach out for help because he really did help save me. Honestly his call today just might be saving my AS* more than I even know! A reminder to be forever vigilant. Don't forget my past or I am bound to repeat it.

hopeful4

Wow....I don't even know what to say.

Yes, I definitely knew that many counselors are recovering addicts. The thing is, they should already be recovered and strong in their sobriety.

An addict is an addict for life, that is definitely a fact. It's good that you are vigilant and steady in your own recovery!

Fly N Buy

Thanks for the post ......Whether addict or alcoholic or both, I have heard others speak of not putting people on a pedestal. Maybe, for this very reason.

Pray for him, now he needs you......

Yes, object lesson about a daily reprieve without guarantees. The sobriety gift is one that will melt away given too much heat. Important to keep it chilled at all times......

peace

AnvilheadII

ho-ly mo-ly. i'm not even in the former heroin user club and just reading your post makes me sick. it truly is a glaring example of just where addiction can take us tho....how low, how desperate. i feel an overwhelming need to give you a hug. my goodness.

andyroo72

Hey Marcus,

Yeah, that would be really disturbing if it happened to me. I guess we tend to rely on counsellors/ therapists/ whatever being something more than human- a rock, as you say. I know that's unrealistic, but maybe it's necessary to have that sort of security even if it is illusionary?

Ultimately, though I they're just people and do the same silly **** we do. More importantly, this guy is his own person. He's living his own life and going through whatever he's going through. It doesn't reflect on you at all, it's not about you, it's only about him. Sorry to labour that, but it's probably really easy to lose track of that sort of stuff in this sort of situation.

Maybe it's useful to think about what's changed? From right before you picked up that phone call to after you'd spoken to him, what has actually really changed?

Marcus

Thanks for the replies. I already feel better. Obviously I did put him on a bit of a pedestal and when I heard that he was using again for a split second I thought well sh*t then I should be using again. But you are exactly right Andy - not a dam thing has changed. My recovery IS my recovery and shouldn't be dependent on anyone else but me and if it is I have a serious problem.

PS - of course I didn't try to hook him up. Actually just said let me make a few phone calls and then of course didn't make any and texted him back saying sorry don't know anyone. Probably should have just said WTF don't call me, but my head was literally spinning at that point. I did feel his pain and related to the desperation and thanked GOD it wasn't me!

cleaninLI

Marcus I'm glad you feel better about it now. It's a stark reminder that once an addict forever an addict. Was there a reason he didn't want to go to a detox? Was he worried about it coming out in the open...due to his working in the field?

I think I would probably have talked to him about going to a rehab....because it looks like he was trying to turn it around.....or do you think he wasn't being truthful?

Thanks for posting this Marcus.

TiredEnough

I'm sorry that happened, Marcus. Still, just remember it doesn't matter what he or anyone else does. What you do is all that matters and I don't think you are going to fail.

aasharon90

Being honest in recovery put folks in a
stronger place in their lives. Once I
became completely honest in all my
affairs, then another door opened
wider for me to enjoy life on a level
that is unbelievable.

If, someone had called me like they
did to you, with my new found honesty
and confidence, I would have strongly
spoke to him that I am in recovery and
don't mess with narcotics, drugs, alcohol,
all those poisons that would kill. Sorry
dude, I cant help you.

All I can suggest to you is there is help
available as you already know. Just use
the tools and knowledge of what was
taught to you and get urself healthy again.

No lies in that conversation to return to
make amends and you never set urself
up to keep in touch with him.

Keep up the good work on ur own recovery.

Dee74

Hi Marcus

I feel really sorry for that guy - just reading that level of desperation takes me right back.

If this discourages you - don't let it. There are great examples of long term recovery right here on SR, and elsewhere.

I can understand something like this might shake your faith but never forget - recovery really is possible

Marcus

Again I appreciate each and every response on here. I am glad I posted because for a moment I was quite confused but in the end I take it as a learning experience as I try to do with most situations these days.

I am going back and forth between feeling bad for him to being absolutely pissed off that a counselor would even consider calling someone they used to work with and potentially put their sobriety in jeopardy. We did have a bit of an unconventional relationship, but again live and learn.

I have been in and out of the rooms for a long time now. I have had sponsors with 20 and even 30 years or more of sobriety. My experience has been most people that make it to 15 years turn a corner and keep on keeping on. Yes they might pull back a bit and you don't see them at meetings quite as much, but they have completely incorporated recovery into their lives and just "get it" whatever that means. But every now and again you hear of someone with 15, 20, or 30 years going back out. I no longer look at this as SCREW IT IF THEY CAN'T HACK IT I AM JUST SCREWED, but more of just a warning as to what can happen. I feel bad that they might have had to go back out to give me that reminder, but whatever secrets they might have been keeping brought them down.

I kind of feel like who am I to tell him what he should do? He had 10 years and I only have 2 (almost 2 and a 1/2). It definitely isn't all about numbers. Numbers in the end might not mean that much. It comes down to where are you at today? Are you trying to rest on your laurels and fall back on the equity you have built up? OR are you continuing to grow and find new ways to become a better person? A stronger person?

Again I feel like I am getting preachy and that is NOT my intention. I just want to thank everyone for being here no matter if you have 30 years, 30 days, or are still in the throws of addiction. We have WAY more in common than we have differences. Reminds me not to be a stranger. Keep coming back Y'ALL!!!

liv1ce

It should teach us all to not get too smug about our recovery. I had 10 years and then went back for 3. Cleaned it up here on SR and stayed clean for 2 years. Guess what? I'm back again after another 6 month trip to hell.

Stride34

The feeling when someone we looked up to in sobriety relapses is a bad one, because of our perception of our own sobriety and what it means is tied up with them. Bottom line is they are human beings and are not unflappable.

I would think at 10 years of sobriety and a counselor this wouldn’t often happen, but it can. I wouldn’t let it get you rattled in your sobriety or question yourself,. Its good to have a healthy fear of relapse, but If your settled in sobriety with multiple years and taking care of yourself, its OK to feel confident that you are not likely to relapse anytime soon.

Marcus

I don't want to resurrect this thread, but it honestly has taught me so much that I just have to. Obviously for those who don't know can read the thread and see what is going on, but what is a terrible experience for me has turned into one of the BEST lessons in recovery that I have EVER HAD.

I know in my own life I flippantly thought that using just ONE TIME was not a big deal. I mean it was only one time. One time couldn't change my life forever. I could always get back on track if I slipped up and used that one time. Today I completely understand and believe that JUST ONE TIME can and will change the course of your ENTIRE LIFE!

I have had some texts back and forth with my X counselor. He was laying out excuses that he probably heard 1,000 times from his "clients". Last I talked to him was a week ago where at 9am he said he was going to go cold turkey later that day. Another LAME A*S excuse. Anyway since that so called Cold Turkey I have not heard a word from him. Unfortunately I know too well that he is still using away and making excuses as to why he NEEDS IT.

This is not about him but about me and anyone else trying to get clean. That pipe dream of JUST ONCE. I will use just one time and get back on track is the BIGGEST LIE we could EVER EVER tell ourselves. I don't know why I/WE just don't understand it. Why do we all keep falling into the trap? We might have 3,4,6 months of recovery or 10,20 years and we all fall for the same thing. That we can somehow use just one more time and get back on track? It is the biggest lie EVER in recovery yet we fall for it AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN. Sorry If I sound preachy, but it is so dam clear to me now that I have to speak up. ONE MORE TIME - CAN AND WILL RUIN YOUR LIFE! All you have built up and worked so hard for can be blown away in an instant thinking you can use just ONE MORE TIME!

Don't Do IT!! I promise you you will regret it. It will turn your life upside down and destroy everything you care about. I mean this guy is screwed. He quit and went to college and trained for years to be a counselor and now his life is ****KED. He can't go back to that now. All because he thought he could pick up JUST ONE MORE TIME! It has been a great learning experience for me. I mean I knew it all along, but this is just another reminder. If you are DONE you have to be DONE! No more just once because it just might kill you!! Be good my friends!!!

cleaninLI

Marcus you are absolutely right! One more time will without a doubt lead us back! It happened to me...which is exactly why I'm back at this again. I had Almost 4 years clean but I tricked myself into believing I could take a couple when they were offered to me and that would be it. That very next day I handed money over to that drug dealer neighbor and asked him to get me some more. Then I lied to myself that I could just use a little on the weekends! WRONG again!! Weekend use became daily use within a week! That's just it! We don't just pick it up again and take a few months or a few years to get back up to the level we were at when we first quit! NOPE!!!! We reach that level with alarming speed! I'm telling you it became a daily thing within 1 week!!! I was in full addict mode within two weeks of popping that 1 pill!
Another thing is that with each relapse the damage becomes WORSE!!!!! The risk of ODing TRIPLES....QUADRUPLES!!!!!!

So if anyone reading this thinks "Oh I have 2, 4, 8, 16, 30 years clean so I know how to handle it, I'm cured or 1 time isn't going to hurt me. I'll just enjoy this one time, no one even has to know, I'll be fine!" STOP!!!!! Read Marcus' thread! You are kidding yourself, because it is a BIG FAT LIE!!!!!

biminiblue

Thank you so much for this update.

I need to remember this lesson and that's one reason I keep coming here - to be reminded.

It takes one.

Twofish

Dear Marcus,
Thanks for this thread and the educating you have given to this Codie's!
Everyday I'm learning something else about addiction, something like this is very important.
My RADs are both in therapy with RA therapists. As long as the therapists honor their sobriety, respect it, I feel confident and have hope and trust that they are teaching my girls the tools on becoming stronger, their recovery stronger.
I never liked it when my daughters therapist confronted her about blaming me or manipulating her sessions or denying she was ever an addict...with your clarity on the thread, your honesty, I can see now why the therapist did that. She may have seen a relapse approaching fast and wanted to put the tools to work to have her stop it from entering her brain again.
The stress factor is such a fine line to walk on. Stress ignites the trigger. I'm sure when you got that phone call your stress level went thru the Heavens and the trigger button was itching to be pressed.
Marcus you are so strong and so wise. I respect you so much and I know that it takes one to know one. You been there, done that and never want to return to it, not even one time. You know the difference that you can never try it just "once".
I really like what CleaninLI said...you (or any RA)can never just go back once, regardless of their sober time...they will only be fooling themselves.
Hugs Marcus, I am so proud of your fight and recovery
TF

ayo

I think that this is an example, a case in point re: the double standard of substance abuse academia. Life experience as an addict is not completely discounted by those in the higher echelons of that field but if you show too much experience it makes them nervous and eager to kick you out of the club.

Oh my god, this man really IS a junkie after all. And he went to public school!
*stamps down on the application: UNFIT in big red block letters*

In an ideal world this man's record would have been considered in the proper context- as proof of the depths of his struggle with addiction. But instead it is viewed as evidence that he is a criminal, unfit for "promotion."

Marcus

I think what I learned from this is an addict is an addict. Of course I would always put my money on someone with 10 years sober to STAY sober versus someone who has 2 weeks and is shaking like a leaf, but even those with long term sobriety are NOT immune to relapse. It is a shame that it happened, but for me I would rather work with someone who has been through the battle versus someone who read about it in a book. The problem is someone who on the outside might look like they are so strong and their armor is impenetrable might be aching on the inside and everyone EXPECTS them to be strong so they either feel like they can't reach out for help OR their EGO is still telling them they can do it.

Unfortunately based on a recent conversation with him I have come to realize the ONLY REASON he contacted me was because he was hoping I could get him methadone. He wasn't looking for support or a friend to talk to no he just wanted to use me. I can't be too upset by this though because I did this very same thing AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN. No matter how much time you have once you pick up again all bets are off. You can turn into that same azzhole you were years ago in an instant. It is just the sad sad truth. Him blaming his using again on the system not giving him a bump up in his license is the same as any one of us using an EXCUSE to use. My girlfriend broke up with me, my dog died, it's cloudy outside. If an addict wants to use they will find an excuse. It is another reminder - NO RESERVATIONS! I don't care if your whole family is wiped out - when you get to the point of being done - NOTHING - AND I MEAN NOTHING - Can be an excuse to use. Otherwise your sobriety is just that - a lie waiting for the other shoe to drop.

I apologize for those that don't agree with me and those that are truly in pain I feel for you because there is a whole other set of circumstances guiding your use. But for the hardcore addict like me that uses to get high and only to get high I truly feel this is the truth.

Don't fall for it! Don't think that just because you want to use one moment that it will never go away. All of us come to a crossroads and once we are truly sick and tired we just have to realize USING IS NOT AN OPTION. IT IS OFF THE TABLE! Until that day relapse is just a bad day / choice away. Love all my fellow addicts where ever the hell you are. I don't know everything, but I do have a lot of past experience and failures and can see clearer now than ever before!!!

Twofish

Marcus,
Yes, you know what us mammas need to know and understand.
Thank you for giving me this gift.
TF