Does anyone think prescribing physicians get a kickback from pharmaceutical companies

[ingear]

Is this me being paranoid?
I know pharmacueticals are big business.
I've seen the reps with their cases and how our doctor spent lots of time
with the reps.
It seemed like our doctor was overprescribing and I could never figure any good REASON for it.
Why would a doctor prescribe so much oxycontin AND ms-contin for
breakthrough pain?
Why would a doctor prescribe an antidepressant AND benzos for breakthrough anxiety?
Does anybody know of incentives doctors may be receiving from the pharma companies?

What do YOU think? All input appreciated.
Bridgit

[justanothrdrunk]

Some definitely do, no question about that. Though one's definition of a "kick-back" may differ.

I do not think that a doctor get's a check from a drug company just for writing scripts. But there are definitely other incentives.

Though when it comes to oxy's and other opiate pain relievers...

Those have been around a long time. And there aren't really any brand name opiates any longer. Plus they are really inexpensive for the legitimate purchaser.

When I think of incentives, it's more the case with the really expensive, newer brand name drugs out there.

[Latte]

I do believe that they do.

I just saw a new ad for a migraine med. It is Imitrex with Naproxen (Aleve) in it. They are going to charge an arm and a leg for it, insurances won't pay, people in pain won't get the relief they need because their Dr. doesn't think...why won't we just perscribe Imitrex and tell the patient to take X amount of Aleve that they buy OTC. /end rant.

I always tell people to talk to their pharmacist about the medications they are perscribed. Pharmacists often know of cheaper/better alternatives that save a patient all kinds of money.

I don't think it is just about narcotics but about all medications.

I know why benzos are perscribed with an antidepressant and why extra pain meds are perscribed. I have a friend with a very painful chronic condition and she is on a lot of pain meds and breakthrough meds. This condition is slowly killing her and her quality of life is very important. That is why they have those meds, for people like her.

Anti-depressants can take up to a month to work and often benzos are perscribed until the antidepressants kick in.

[WantToLiveAgain]

It is absolutely true that physicians receive incentives to prescribe drugs to patients. It is well documented that pharmaceutical companies provide doctors with a number of different forms of payment to prescribe their meds. Whether we are talking about doctors being paid as supposed consultants to large pharmaceutical companies when a new drug is on the market or whether you want to discuss the trips paid for by these giants supposedly to educate doctors on the use of these drugs. Educational seminars that many doctors don't even attend but rather a smoke screen payoff system for these doctors that provides vacations for their families or whatever. What about that new trial drug where the doctor (mostly in the mental health industry) must monitor your use over the course of 6 - 12 months which means regular visits to physicians with guaranteed payment from the insurance companies. Many of these visits you actually see your doctor for under a couple minutes as they continue the use of the drug. This is the stuff that goes on ABOVE BOARD ... I am sick when I think about the things that happen below the radar screen. These pharmaceutical companies are WAY TOO BIG and too powerful and get away with literally ... MURDER!!!

They stay within budget to get a certain drug out to circulation based on the projected profits this new wonder drug will provide regardless in some cases, of what tests have shown. They have brought to court numerous times for behaviors such as this ... A $600 Million judgment against the makers of Zyprexa a year ago, Merck just finally made the first payment in their lawsuit concerning the drug Vioxx a $4.85 Billion settlement ... but the scary thing is that just recently our own government is looking to pass protection to these irresponsible companies that don't warn people in a timely manner about side effects of certain drugs. Hmmmm ... imagine that, capitalism at is finest. If you have the money you can buy your own form of protection to abuse your power even more.

Here we are on a site where the majority of people here are trying to find solutions to their out of control substance abuse and you read countless of posts from people talking about their prescribed drugs that are suppose to be helping them stop using drugs ... the irony of it all.

[ingear]

Thank you!

Purdue Pharma admitted in federal court last year that their sales reps lied to the doctors they supplied about the addictive nature of oxycontin.
Now anyone with a little savvy would see it and say well duh. Oxycodone, not addictive, riiiiiight. So how can a doctor not have that reaction.
Why did this happen, how could the doctors say they didn't know and wtf about the whole thing. Prolly to cover their arses when people turned up addicts who they didn't know what to do with to avoid potential lawsuit issues.

PP was ordered to pay 634 MILLION in fines and much of it to fund drug task force units etc. Who go around busting the dealers who are addicted to this garbage and find it so easy to get huge scripts from unscrupulous doctors.

Argh.

And yeah it kills me when doctors who we are supposed to trust just keep the vicious cycle of drug dependency and addiction going instead of rehab or addiction treatment.

Argh.



**I am NOT talking about legitimate drug scripts here for people who really need them.**

[Live]

again, with everone else, YES! I know so.

Many industries receive incentives, my SIL who works in auto insurance receives gift cards for gasoline. Between she and her husband, they enjoy free travel, bottled water, you would not believe all the kinds of things the are given!!!

[jlo34]

I'm a paramedic and have worked in a few doctor offices over the years....

None of the physicians I have ever worked for have received a "kick back" for prescribing any type of medication whatsoever; be it for diabetes, heart, cholesterol, pain, menopause, etc. Drug reps stop by doctor offices to give the doctor/staff information about the medications they represent, any updates on these meds and information on upcoming meds.

As far as the "addictive" meds; doctors aren't snowballed by the "it's not addictive" jargon. Generally, most good doctors give patients the benefit of the doubt and try to help their patients pain. Sadly, doctors who don't understand addiction don't realize how easy it is for some of us to get addicted to these meds. Then, we want more because that dose isn't helping...most narcotics will only "satisfy" a person for so long before it becomes not as effective.

I have seen a lot of patients who are legitimately on enormous amounts of narcotics...do I agree with it, not exactly. Within reason. However, it is quite easy to see those persons who are addicted to the meds and use them wrongly.

I will never forget when I got caught up on percocet after a severe back injury (from work). I was on valium for 3 weeks and the following 6 months or so, on percocet. The first 5ish months I used my meds as they were prescribed...however, I didn't wait for my scripts to run out...I refilled them as soon as I could... On the percocets, my pain was "gone" of sorts, I still had some pain, but NOTHING like it was without them....then I started noticing the euphoria when I took 1 or 2 more than I was suppose to take. Then I noticed my patience level, gone...continued to take a "few more" here and there, until I was popping 10 or more at a time. When the script ran out I KNEW I had to be done...or else....

I'm a recovering alcoholic, been sober (at that time for 13+ years). I knew I was getting really close to losing everything if I continued. I was getting scared. My depression from my injury was unbearable (ended my career) and the physical pain was horrific; but I didn't get a refill, in fact, my first day without percocets I went back to my ortho doc and I admitted what I had done. I told him I wanted to detox off it and see where I stood. I was going to PT at the time and confessed to my therapist also. He tried helping me with pain relief as much as he could too. After a week and a half of hell, I went back to my doctor, humbled, and begged for something to help relieve the pain...and he worked with me.

I now have a pain relief course that helps. It doesn't make the pain go away, but it makes it bearable to endure life daily. Been on it now for 4 years. No euphoria. No desire to take more than I'm suppose too. I have learned a lot from going through that experience and have been able to talk with our patients that I felt were having the same problem. It also helped me a lot, when I got sober I was 17....I'm now 34 and for me the hell of addiction was far out of mind...it's really clear again and I used that experience to also quit smoking. Which was worse...I think it was the percocets definitely physically and emotionally, though I had smoked for over 1/2 of my life, averaging 2+ packs per day...

Sorry for the long share...felt I needed to "qualify" myself...
Blessings,
Jen

[SelfSeeking]

Jen... what a powerful story. I'm glad you had such good care providers.

[bandito]

I am a doctor's daughter, My dad, uncle (his brother) My grandfather & great grandfather were all Dr's. I have worked in this field for many years, NEVER NOT ONCE was there a kick back ! Unless you call a coffee cup or a pen with the drug co. name on it a kick back ! Dr's write the RX because patience's come for office visits telling about their pain. You have something that can help that, DON"T use it if you don't want to, but at least you have it in the middle of the night when you can't take it any more. You can always have your visit, then tell your Dr you don't want a RX ???

[tbeit]

Wheather they got kickbacks or not I always knew what I was doing when I was "dope fiending" the Dr. I have an injury and cronic pain but the DR. and the drug co. was not taking advantage of me.I am responsible for my addiction bottom line.I am not a 12 step BB thumper but I know I will not ever get better if I dont take responsability for MY addiction.

[glitter]

Database of payments:

Drug Company Payments to Doctors | Dollars for Docs - ProPublica

Look your doctor up.

[dreamscape]

absolutely! "Non monitary" kickbacks, worth tens of thousands.
They get invited to resorts (paid in full) for the whole family, to attend a 2 hr lecture on the benifits of a certian drug they sell.

Golfing, swimming, boating @ very luxurious resorts.

it's technically (not illegal) but very sleezy and morally reprehensible.

[MelissaNoDrugs]

We the consumer are the product, delivered by the medical field to the customer, the pharmaceutical industry.

To think there isn't an inherent benefit to both industries is naïve. Its like saying we only pay $3.39 a gallon of gas when the truth is we pay close to $10 a gallon when all other costs taxes and fees are factored in.

[RV GTO]

Originally Posted by glitter

Database of payments:

Drug Company Payments to Doctors | Dollars for Docs - ProPublica

Look your doctor up.

Interesting link - thank you. My shrink was paid a total of $76,000 in 2010.

[thequest]

I always wondered if the specialist got psuedo kickbacks for following a particular course of treatment that involved a company's drugs. In other words when drugs are in their in the final stages of premarket testing or the early stages of approval and distribution WHY does a doctor pick that drug or course of treatment? - the oppurtunity to conduct a study and publish with their name on it? Teach that treatment to others? A job as a sales rep/lecturer for that company? Or an actual job even if it's a year later with that company? OR WHY does a company allow or distribute their product to certain doctors and hospitals?



Pharmaceutical Fraud



I find it hard to believe that these corporate pharmcuetical companies havent' found away around these laws. Personally I think they would target a hospital chain and their representatives to become a major supplier to their pharmacy. That way if a pharm tech starts telling the docs about a drug it puts a buffer between the doctors and company.

[glitter]

Anyone doubting that docs make money from big pharma take a look at the link I posted earlier.

Drug Company Payments to Doctors | Dollars for Docs - ProPublica

Seriously.

Hopefully with amendments to the new health reform, much of this will become stop. Many hospitals have already made rules forbidding physicians to accept any payment in any form from pharma.

This is the US I'm talking about....not the UK.

[glitter]

Originally Posted by RV GTO

Interesting link - thank you. My shrink was paid a total of $76,000 in 2010.

Mind-blowing isn't it? That website doesn't even include things like medical device manufacturers who pay doctors little goodies including cash. It includes only 8 pharma companies out of the hundreds out there.

Ever wonder where your shrink gets those free samples? LOL!

[dreamscape]

Originally Posted by Sasha4

Nope absolutely not true.
Where did you get your facts from?

This happened perhaps 15 years ago. But no way now.

I think if it does happen and is reported on, then it is not because it is the norm, it is the exception and the punishment is massive. not just cost but reputation.

Most companies are bound by tight anti-bribery laws now - especially the american companies.

In the UK we cannot even give a pen away anymore, in case it is seen as bribery.

Most of the companies that produce addictive drugs ( such as morphine etc etc and before we get onto that argument THEY ARE NEEDED FOR PATIENTS IN AGONY DYINY FROM CANCER....) have to agree to strict RISK MANAGEMENT SCHEDULES to prevent misuse and abuse.

Doctors can be paid for lecturing on a disease area to his peers or sitting on an advisory board.

As long as these payments are visable there should be no problem.

Often this might be at congresses around the world, if they are seen as leading experts in their field.

Time away from home, their knowledge, the actual lecture needs to be paid for.

Not all of the doctors pocket the cash themselves. It often goes back into their department.

Benzo's are cheap drugs, not even a £1.00 for 20 in the UK. So no way does anyone profit.

Also, if the drug molecule is known to be addictive eg - morphine then no matter what form it is presented in (capsule, liquid, time released tablet) it's always going to be addictive. And they know this.

Perhaps you might more want to look into the equipment companies for a compare and contrast in the tight rules applied to pharmaceuticals and then have a think. Such as Johnson and Johnson etc etc

1) how do you know it wasn't true? Fact is, you don't have a clue.
You said "Nope absolutely not true" .... then you said..... "maybe 15 years ago" lol!

then you said ...."I think if it does happen...

... Then ..."because it is the norm, it is the exception"

then ...Not all of the doctors pocket the cash themselves. It often goes back into their department.

Thought you said it didnt happen? .....give me a break

Next time read what you wrote before you post it. lol

BTW ,It wasn't in the uk, but remember the uk isn't the whole world now is it?

nuff said.