Two month AA experience
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 12
thank you Fenian very helpful
I think in the UK maybe some AA groups are a little bit dogmatic. Perhaps in the USA AA as a fellowship is more prominent and possibly there is less stigma, massive tendency for the Brits to have a stiff upper lip which is why alcoholism and depression tends to go untreated.
I think in the UK maybe some AA groups are a little bit dogmatic. Perhaps in the USA AA as a fellowship is more prominent and possibly there is less stigma, massive tendency for the Brits to have a stiff upper lip which is why alcoholism and depression tends to go untreated.
Guest
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Mpls, Mn
Posts: 55
Hang in there, Rockplace. And when it comes down to it, the official AA group conscience is support for getting medical help for medical problems. This includes psychotropic medications when prescribed by a physician who is knowledgeable about alcoholism.
paradox
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 665
Originally Posted by Rockplace 
Hi all I'm new to this forum from the UK . I attended AA meetings in my local area for nine weeks some were helpful but I found The AA rhetoric the program very difficult - sure definitely the fellowship works for some and not others. Within AA like in all walks of life there exists a stigma against mental health so having a dual diagnosis is hard in the rooms.
Originally Posted by Rockplace
thank you Fenian very helpful
I think in the UK maybe some AA groups are a little bit dogmatic. Perhaps in the USA AA as a fellowship is more prominent and possibly there is less stigma, massive tendency for the Brits to have a stiff upper lip which is why alcoholism and depression tends to go untreated.
I think in the UK maybe some AA groups are a little bit dogmatic. Perhaps in the USA AA as a fellowship is more prominent and possibly there is less stigma, massive tendency for the Brits to have a stiff upper lip which is why alcoholism and depression tends to go untreated.
I have been on locked and unlocked psychiatric wards both voluntarily and as the result of being sectioned (involuntarily committed).
I am completely open about my mental illness when I am called upon to share my story.
To be honest, I only have one story.
The part about my recovery from alcoholism is filled with gratitude.
If you can summon the honesty, openness and willingness to work through our programme, you will one day be able to help other alcoholics who suffer from depression like we do.
Please do it for yourself as well as others,
Give it a chance.
Listen for the similarities in what you hear; rather than the differences.
The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Washington State Nuclear Wasteland
Posts: 25
I'm going through the same thing as the OP. I had some underlying, but managed (with SSRI) anxiety before I started drinking, and since quitting three months ago, I'm having much increased anxiety with chest pains, depression, limited ability to handle small amounts of stress, and sleep disruptions. Also just feel crappy all the freaking time, have been suicidal, cry often, hungry but can't eat, tired a lot, sometimes can feel joy, other times can't, etc. I think it's just PAWS, which supposedly takes 6, 9, 12? months to work itself out. But in the meantime, I want to do as much as possible to recover.
I went to a cardiologist and did a stress test EKG, etc. and ruled out heart problems, so I know it's just the PAWS/anxiety causing those chest pains. Usually they pop up when I'm alone and un-distracted by something worthwhile, thinking about my problems, trying to relax to sleep at night, etc.
AA also freaked me out at first, and still does to some extent. I've never been super outgoing or people-oriented, and definitely selfish. I wasn't even going to go but my doctor said I should, and find a sponsor, etc. I'm ok with never drinking again -- I stopped on my own anyway. I think I'd rather die than go back to booze. Just wanna kick this damn PAWS crap. I am also having trouble adjusting to the idea that per the AA mantra ( or my sponsor's version ), I'll basically have to be an AA-aholic for life in order to avoid re-becoming an active alcoholic. I want to get to the point where I can work the 12 steps, get over these PAWS symptoms after X months, and just go to a few meetings a week and sponsor a few people now and then and hope that's enough to keep me sane. Seems to work for some of the senior AA guys with 10+ years -- I see them every so often at meetings and they're still sober and going strong.
I guess all that above ramble above is to try to illustrate that I do understand how hard it is to go to AA when you are exhausted, feeling horrible, wanting to die, guilt-ridden, etc. It's literally the last thing you want to do when you're feeling that way.
But I will say this in favor of AA -- the meetings help get me out of my head, and that's HUGE for people in early recovery I think, esp. those of us with jacked-up brains before starting alcohol. Talking with my sponsor, and other seasoned AA members also helps a lot, especially with the dang anxiety/chest pains. Calling other guys in the program to check up on them also helps, and just trying to stay busy.
Do you have a sponsor yet? Are you working the AA steps or just going to meetings? I just went to meetings the first 2 1/2 months, was having trouble finding/wanting a sponsor, and was afraid of doing the steps because they seemed like a lot of mental/emotional/spiritual work. A great sponsor just kind of fell into my lap and he is helping me see that just going to meetings is not "working" AA. You have to work the steps for AA to really help you, if it's going to. He told me that he was 3 1/2 years sober and was still suffering pretty bad. Someone told him exactly how he was feeling and that he was suffering from untreated alcoholism. Once he actually worked the steps he said his life just "took off" from there.
So I'm on step 2 now, and am still a bit skeptical, but I am going to give the steps a shot and see. I figure time will pass anyway, with or without working them, and it definitely won't hurt to work them.
I went to a cardiologist and did a stress test EKG, etc. and ruled out heart problems, so I know it's just the PAWS/anxiety causing those chest pains. Usually they pop up when I'm alone and un-distracted by something worthwhile, thinking about my problems, trying to relax to sleep at night, etc.
AA also freaked me out at first, and still does to some extent. I've never been super outgoing or people-oriented, and definitely selfish. I wasn't even going to go but my doctor said I should, and find a sponsor, etc. I'm ok with never drinking again -- I stopped on my own anyway. I think I'd rather die than go back to booze. Just wanna kick this damn PAWS crap. I am also having trouble adjusting to the idea that per the AA mantra ( or my sponsor's version ), I'll basically have to be an AA-aholic for life in order to avoid re-becoming an active alcoholic. I want to get to the point where I can work the 12 steps, get over these PAWS symptoms after X months, and just go to a few meetings a week and sponsor a few people now and then and hope that's enough to keep me sane. Seems to work for some of the senior AA guys with 10+ years -- I see them every so often at meetings and they're still sober and going strong.
I guess all that above ramble above is to try to illustrate that I do understand how hard it is to go to AA when you are exhausted, feeling horrible, wanting to die, guilt-ridden, etc. It's literally the last thing you want to do when you're feeling that way.
But I will say this in favor of AA -- the meetings help get me out of my head, and that's HUGE for people in early recovery I think, esp. those of us with jacked-up brains before starting alcohol. Talking with my sponsor, and other seasoned AA members also helps a lot, especially with the dang anxiety/chest pains. Calling other guys in the program to check up on them also helps, and just trying to stay busy.
Do you have a sponsor yet? Are you working the AA steps or just going to meetings? I just went to meetings the first 2 1/2 months, was having trouble finding/wanting a sponsor, and was afraid of doing the steps because they seemed like a lot of mental/emotional/spiritual work. A great sponsor just kind of fell into my lap and he is helping me see that just going to meetings is not "working" AA. You have to work the steps for AA to really help you, if it's going to. He told me that he was 3 1/2 years sober and was still suffering pretty bad. Someone told him exactly how he was feeling and that he was suffering from untreated alcoholism. Once he actually worked the steps he said his life just "took off" from there.
So I'm on step 2 now, and am still a bit skeptical, but I am going to give the steps a shot and see. I figure time will pass anyway, with or without working them, and it definitely won't hurt to work them.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 6
Hey, Rockplace, thank-you for your frank & honest appraisal of your time in AA, and I am sorry that you experienced a relapse.
The fatal nature of alcoholism is a pertinent topic, but I have come to find that the better meetings are those that focus more on the Solution, including relevant insight gleaned from experience, strength, and hope; rather than graphic descriptions of the Problem. The literature actually says that frothy emotional appeals won't get us sober, and so constant repetition of the horrors of an alcoholic death may not be the best usage of meeting time.
That said, I think the intent in telling horror stories is 1.) to catch newcomers' attention, 2.) to build rapport based on a common background of alcoholic suffering, and 3.) to stress the need for a Solution (some aspect of which should then be the main topic, rather than the suffering). It sounds as though, in your case, they were perhaps more successful than intended on point (1.); while points (2.) and (3.) were overshadowed in comparison. This is just my guess, as it is difficult to say going only by your own report, and knowing as you've stated that your perception might be filtered or modified by your anxiety.
I can relate insofar as I used to attend a local homegroup where meetings gave me considerable stress. I attended this group for about one year during my first 1-2 years in sobriety. Now in my fourth year, with the experience of attending a number of different groups, I can say that the stress I experienced at this particular homegroup was relatively unusual, since in fact no other group has given me such worry/anxiety before, during, or after that period. I did not know this at the time. I am fortunate in that there are a few dozen homegroups in my area, and so I can just fill that timeslot with a different homegroup. If you have this option, then I would suggest that you explore it.
It is fortunate that the group I am referring to was never actually my homegroup, i.e. the group where you commit to attend regularly, participate in group conscience, and help out with volunteer service work. I went to this group because my sponsor liked to meet there before the meeting, due to the group being centrally located in town. I had a different homegroup, whereas the group where I experienced stress was my B-group, my personal terminology meaning that I went there almost as often as actual homegroup members but never joined it. If it had been my homegroup, then I might have quit AA and then relapsed.
By the way, this is not to say that I had no part in causing my own stress at this particular group. In retrospect, I think a few factors were involved. One was that the group had a curiously high quantity of members from an older generation of retirees from NYC, who by this point in their lives were living & attending meetings in a suburban town of the southeastern U.S. I don't know the regional analogues for the UK, as perhaps this would be like a hardened group of retired ex-cops and -criminals from London, now drawing pension, shopping for adult catheters, and living in a town where people say "thank-you" and hold the door open for each other, not exclusively for old ladies but just anybody within door-holding distance. They were not assimilated to regional norms of friendliness to which I was accustomed. I found that these men were not warm & welcoming but rather somewhat abrasive, and it seemed as though the only time they would talk to younger guys was to reprimand. I was perhaps deserving of the reprimands ;-) but did not have the presence of mind to put these things into perspective. When the guy who appears to "lead" the group (often chairing; always sits at a table in the front) yells at you for pulling out in front of him in the parking lot, and this is the first & only conversation you've had with him over the course of attending the group for 5 or 6 months, and having not yet known fully about the Traditions, then it felt to me like I was burdensome or unwelcome in the group. I also did not relate these experiences to my sponsor as I should have; I'm not sure why not exactly, and now that I think of it maybe I will bring it up with him. At the time, I think I was fearful that he would take their side. (I later learned that he did not judge this group to be "healthy" for similar though unrelated reasons).
There was another member who was too friendly and would often draw me into contentious discussions on outside issues such as politics while generously offering unsolicited advice, even though he was not my sponsor, and I later learned that he does not work a 12-Step program and had never been sponsored / sponsored anyone. He would also make presumptuous remarks that confused me at the time as to why he was making them, but I later determined were based on 1.) incorrect assumptions about my program, 2.) failing to mind his own business, and 3.) my own poor communication skills. For example, he would interrogate me about why I had missed meetings. I didn't realize he probably thought that this particular group was my homegroup. I had failed to clarify that a different group was my homegroup, that I did have good attendance at that group, and that I was attending his group for "filler" (and the convenience of location). He would also say, "Your sponsor is here," which I thought was odd because I already knew that; I met with the guy for 30 minutes just before the meeting! I realized later he thought I was avoiding my sponsor, as he was not aware that I had met with my sponsor before the meeting. For my own part, I stewed over these remarks rather than communicating better.
Thank-you for indulging me on such a long story, and I suppose the upshot of it is not to let the arseholes drive you out of the rooms; but also, don't be afraid to go to a different homegroup. I guess that's conflicting advice... just go with whichever option is preferable to you. Now that I have more experience in the rooms, when I encounter these same archetypes, they no longer bother me as much.
The fatal nature of alcoholism is a pertinent topic, but I have come to find that the better meetings are those that focus more on the Solution, including relevant insight gleaned from experience, strength, and hope; rather than graphic descriptions of the Problem. The literature actually says that frothy emotional appeals won't get us sober, and so constant repetition of the horrors of an alcoholic death may not be the best usage of meeting time.
That said, I think the intent in telling horror stories is 1.) to catch newcomers' attention, 2.) to build rapport based on a common background of alcoholic suffering, and 3.) to stress the need for a Solution (some aspect of which should then be the main topic, rather than the suffering). It sounds as though, in your case, they were perhaps more successful than intended on point (1.); while points (2.) and (3.) were overshadowed in comparison. This is just my guess, as it is difficult to say going only by your own report, and knowing as you've stated that your perception might be filtered or modified by your anxiety.
I can relate insofar as I used to attend a local homegroup where meetings gave me considerable stress. I attended this group for about one year during my first 1-2 years in sobriety. Now in my fourth year, with the experience of attending a number of different groups, I can say that the stress I experienced at this particular homegroup was relatively unusual, since in fact no other group has given me such worry/anxiety before, during, or after that period. I did not know this at the time. I am fortunate in that there are a few dozen homegroups in my area, and so I can just fill that timeslot with a different homegroup. If you have this option, then I would suggest that you explore it.
It is fortunate that the group I am referring to was never actually my homegroup, i.e. the group where you commit to attend regularly, participate in group conscience, and help out with volunteer service work. I went to this group because my sponsor liked to meet there before the meeting, due to the group being centrally located in town. I had a different homegroup, whereas the group where I experienced stress was my B-group, my personal terminology meaning that I went there almost as often as actual homegroup members but never joined it. If it had been my homegroup, then I might have quit AA and then relapsed.
By the way, this is not to say that I had no part in causing my own stress at this particular group. In retrospect, I think a few factors were involved. One was that the group had a curiously high quantity of members from an older generation of retirees from NYC, who by this point in their lives were living & attending meetings in a suburban town of the southeastern U.S. I don't know the regional analogues for the UK, as perhaps this would be like a hardened group of retired ex-cops and -criminals from London, now drawing pension, shopping for adult catheters, and living in a town where people say "thank-you" and hold the door open for each other, not exclusively for old ladies but just anybody within door-holding distance. They were not assimilated to regional norms of friendliness to which I was accustomed. I found that these men were not warm & welcoming but rather somewhat abrasive, and it seemed as though the only time they would talk to younger guys was to reprimand. I was perhaps deserving of the reprimands ;-) but did not have the presence of mind to put these things into perspective. When the guy who appears to "lead" the group (often chairing; always sits at a table in the front) yells at you for pulling out in front of him in the parking lot, and this is the first & only conversation you've had with him over the course of attending the group for 5 or 6 months, and having not yet known fully about the Traditions, then it felt to me like I was burdensome or unwelcome in the group. I also did not relate these experiences to my sponsor as I should have; I'm not sure why not exactly, and now that I think of it maybe I will bring it up with him. At the time, I think I was fearful that he would take their side. (I later learned that he did not judge this group to be "healthy" for similar though unrelated reasons).
There was another member who was too friendly and would often draw me into contentious discussions on outside issues such as politics while generously offering unsolicited advice, even though he was not my sponsor, and I later learned that he does not work a 12-Step program and had never been sponsored / sponsored anyone. He would also make presumptuous remarks that confused me at the time as to why he was making them, but I later determined were based on 1.) incorrect assumptions about my program, 2.) failing to mind his own business, and 3.) my own poor communication skills. For example, he would interrogate me about why I had missed meetings. I didn't realize he probably thought that this particular group was my homegroup. I had failed to clarify that a different group was my homegroup, that I did have good attendance at that group, and that I was attending his group for "filler" (and the convenience of location). He would also say, "Your sponsor is here," which I thought was odd because I already knew that; I met with the guy for 30 minutes just before the meeting! I realized later he thought I was avoiding my sponsor, as he was not aware that I had met with my sponsor before the meeting. For my own part, I stewed over these remarks rather than communicating better.
Thank-you for indulging me on such a long story, and I suppose the upshot of it is not to let the arseholes drive you out of the rooms; but also, don't be afraid to go to a different homegroup. I guess that's conflicting advice... just go with whichever option is preferable to you. Now that I have more experience in the rooms, when I encounter these same archetypes, they no longer bother me as much.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 12
Thanks cometjo and shade 47, yes Im out of the rooms at the moment no idea if I will ever go back , trapped in the drinking again, but sobriety the meetings was just so painful....so is the drinking so feel there is no way out now. Some wonderful people in some meetings but others were just hooked on AA and the rhetoric and I coulnt bear it, the guilt and shame has been drummed in so I now drink daily rather than binge drinking. I can't commit to going back, so i feel things are pretty bleak right now. I wish you both all the very best with your recovery. For years I thought depression was bad but after developing addiction to booze as well it's totally a self made prison. All the best thanks for everyones posts x
paradox
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 665
Obviously your choice, Rockplace.
You made the prison.
You hold the keys.
I have recovered from bipolar disorder, alcoholism and heart disease.
Yes, they all are potentially fatal illnesses.
I couldn't have fought any of these without help.
If you choose not to go to AA meetings, I hope you will at least stick around here for the help and support.
All the best,
~dox
"Never give in, never give in, never, never, never, never—in nothing, great or small, large or petty—never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense." ~ Winston Churchill
You made the prison.
You hold the keys.
I have recovered from bipolar disorder, alcoholism and heart disease.
Yes, they all are potentially fatal illnesses.
I couldn't have fought any of these without help.
If you choose not to go to AA meetings, I hope you will at least stick around here for the help and support.
All the best,
~dox
"Never give in, never give in, never, never, never, never—in nothing, great or small, large or petty—never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense." ~ Winston Churchill
Guest
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The Deep South
Posts: 14,636
Rockplace, have you looked into other programs such as Smart Recovery, AVRT/RR, Lifering? There are other ways to go about this if you can't do AA. Being in the rooms wasn't great for me either, so I had to piece together my own sort of plan to sobriety.
The important thing is to do whatever it takes to stop, and then stay stopped, obviously.
Please do not use the angst over AA meetings as an excuse though, because it will only send you into a deeper hole.
Use SR right now to dig your way out until you can piece together a better plan. This forum is great. Many people here with loads of wisdom.
The important thing is to do whatever it takes to stop, and then stay stopped, obviously.
Please do not use the angst over AA meetings as an excuse though, because it will only send you into a deeper hole.
Use SR right now to dig your way out until you can piece together a better plan. This forum is great. Many people here with loads of wisdom.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,308
Shade 47,
My thanks button is not working but I really wanted to tell you how much I enjoyed your post. Thankyou for giving an amusing insightful look at your own experience with differing groups. I went to 2 breakfast meetings this week and I Am a morning person and these groups concentrate on the program and how it relates to their solution. I couldn't sit in meetings where all I heard was the problem without heavy emphasis on the solution.
CaiHong
My thanks button is not working but I really wanted to tell you how much I enjoyed your post. Thankyou for giving an amusing insightful look at your own experience with differing groups. I went to 2 breakfast meetings this week and I Am a morning person and these groups concentrate on the program and how it relates to their solution. I couldn't sit in meetings where all I heard was the problem without heavy emphasis on the solution.
CaiHong
Guest
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Mpls, Mn
Posts: 55
You are always welcome
Rockplace,
There are people in AA rooms near you who have what you need and want by way of support as you get better. They will consider it a privilege and an honour to be there for you. It may take trying some new meetings and some discernment on your part to find them.
I have been in a hole like yours, and my heart goes out to you. Hoping you find your way and wishing you the best.
FM
There are people in AA rooms near you who have what you need and want by way of support as you get better. They will consider it a privilege and an honour to be there for you. It may take trying some new meetings and some discernment on your part to find them.
I have been in a hole like yours, and my heart goes out to you. Hoping you find your way and wishing you the best.
FM
Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: land of 10,000 lakes
Posts: 261
rockplace,
Your original post had the words "running out of hope" that is the only thing
that using will take away HOPE! Don't ever believe that there is not a better way to live. There is and it has been proven over and over again. Is it easy
to change? Hell No! It can and will happen if you are willing. Scary! You Darn Right!
The end result is Serenity and Balance in life! Go for it!
Good Thought's to You Today,
Vinnie
Your original post had the words "running out of hope" that is the only thing
that using will take away HOPE! Don't ever believe that there is not a better way to live. There is and it has been proven over and over again. Is it easy
to change? Hell No! It can and will happen if you are willing. Scary! You Darn Right!
The end result is Serenity and Balance in life! Go for it!
Good Thought's to You Today,
Vinnie
Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Washington State Nuclear Wasteland
Posts: 25
Yeah if AA isn't doing the trick for you, check out Smart Recovery (I'm also trying that out in addition to AA), and others. And +1 on using this forum. I know in AA you don't get to do a lot of sharing/discussion with people during the meetings due to the format, unless you talk to people afterwards or get a sponsor, etc. That's where forums like this and others are great. Plus they are even more anonymous than AA, so you can share things that you might not feel comfortable sharing in meetings.
There are definitely resources and tools out there to help with recovery. But it isn't easy; the brunt of the work is on you, with support resource being there to help point you in the right direction, know that you're not alone, and help bounce ideas off of to make sure your thinking is on the right track. Because when you're in recovery, your brain ain't always working right. And more often than not, your thinking and behavior patterns that led you to start drinking in the first place need to be straightened out, too.
It's taken me almost four months of clean sobriety, AA meetings and step work, family and friend support, a good doctor, etc. and I'm just now starting to see some light at the end of the tunnel.
And like they say for recovery resources -- take away what helps you and leave the rest.
There are definitely resources and tools out there to help with recovery. But it isn't easy; the brunt of the work is on you, with support resource being there to help point you in the right direction, know that you're not alone, and help bounce ideas off of to make sure your thinking is on the right track. Because when you're in recovery, your brain ain't always working right. And more often than not, your thinking and behavior patterns that led you to start drinking in the first place need to be straightened out, too.
It's taken me almost four months of clean sobriety, AA meetings and step work, family and friend support, a good doctor, etc. and I'm just now starting to see some light at the end of the tunnel.
And like they say for recovery resources -- take away what helps you and leave the rest.
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