Fusion

Gary, I'm so sorry for taking part in the derailment of your thread. I was just trying help Fini by responding to her questions; but on reflection, when the questions/responses veered off the immorality issue, I should have suggested opening another thread.

Sending more hugs and well wishes to you, your wife and mother.

GaryB1

Thank you Tatsy, as I PM'd you, good news about my mother

Don't worry about the thread Tatsy, if anything a thread getting derailed shows the lengths some peoples Beasts will go to, to try to keep a foothold in that person, by bringing up an irrelevant point and trying to get everyone to focus on that instead of IT.
Thats why all Beast are best ignored, not just your own.
People who say they have a solid understanding of AVRT then derail threads about AVRT principles, with anti-AVRT principles, obviously don't have a strong a grip (or maybe NO grip) on AVRT at all lol

fini

yes...but in a roundabout way it's kinda funny what omitting those two words led to...fruitful.
and i thank you for clarifying.

fini

... I wanted to get across (not very successfully lol) that just because there is sadness and other hard stuff going on in life, there is no need to crumble into using it as an excuse to drink. These are the very times we need to be here in our right minds.
totally.
and that was never questioned. and i am so very sorry you are going through all these challenges and griefs. you said you weren't posting for support or sympathy, so i tried to honor that by sticking to the Beast stuff.

so much can go sideways so quickly and unintentionally.

fini

thanks, Tatsy.

i like understanding things, with or without intention to use or apply them. so i ask questions at times, esp. when something seems contradictory.

thanks for wanting to assist.

GaryB1

Don't worry fini, you are spot on, I was not and am not after sympathy. Thank you for the great honour you showed to the thread. I think Ive said about all that I wanted to say when I started this thread..so I will be leaving it now.

soberlicious

Most of us do here in the Secular Connections forum. That's why I asked about the "so so many" other definitions of addiction. It sounds to me that we are agreeing that the ambivalence toward drinking (the push/pull, the simultaneous feeling of two contradictory feelings, the doing something despite wanting to stop doing something) is the defining characteristic of the state of addiction, but you seem to be assuring me that isn't the case and that there are a whole host of ways to look at that state of being. Just curious as to what those are.

fini

that whole host of ways is all over the forums, soberlicious, and no, i don't agree that the push/pull is THE defining characteristic of addiction.

we tried.
mostly, i'm sad at how some of this thread went sideways, and things were taken on a personal level as arguments which i took pains to repeat i was not here to do.
as i said at the beginning: i find it difficult to have conversations and explore here without running into defensive-seeming walls and...well, the way i phrased it to myself this morning was the potential title of a new thread:
In AVRT, is any questioning of AVRT deemed an open door for future drinking?
if it is, there IS no real conversation to be had if that is the rock bottom premise .

in any case,
it's been informative, and i thank those who participated.

dwtbd

In AVRT, or out, isn't questioning the idea that one can decide to never consume alcohol, leaving a door open to future drinking?

Is the idea itself untenable?

Fusion

SR hung, then double posted!

Fusion

Fini, you seem to have an enquiring mind and want to ask questions, in order to understand. In turn, other folks read your questions and ask some questions back, with their enquiring minds, to fully understand your questions, and to continue and reply to you. On this thread, you've chosen not to reply to certain questions. But that's OK, it's all good, really it is, you've no duty whatsover to explain yourself or expand upon your thoughts. But please Fini, don't view other folks questions as defensiveness.

Now that we seem to have concluded Gary's immorality issue conversation, Fini, I for one, would welcome you starting a new thread with a subject matter of your choice. If that thread goes sideways, it's just brain practice! I like to consider issues too. I do realise I sometimes become a little (ahem) over-zealous (not defensive - I've no need, because my drinking door is well and truly locked, forever). But yes, exploring experiences, issues, beliefs, ideas etc., is great.

fini

thanks, Tatsy.