How do you know you exist?
Trudgin
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 6,348
If I take action - I pick up a ball or hammer a nail - I can see other objects effected by my force indicating a high likelihood I exist. In recovery, I need to do the same. I take action - help another person - go to a meeting - read deep posts on SR - and I sometime see a result, a smile, laughter, a "thanks for this useful post" I know for every action there is a reaction.
The question is, what action will I take today? We must grow daily - even in our pain - or perish. Or it's corollary; It's harder to hit a moving object!!
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The question is, what action will I take today? We must grow daily - even in our pain - or perish. Or it's corollary; It's harder to hit a moving object!!
:
EndGame
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 4,677
As a subject, an "I" who "has being," the only thing that I can be certain of is that I exist. To consider the alternative is literally unthinkable. The subjective truth that I am is indisputable. Attempts to disprove this by what I think and what I do will bring me into conflict with the objective Universe, as will any and all attempts to search for meaning. I assign meaning to my life through my actions. If I'm not living the life I want to live, then I am living inauthentically. I am living someone else's life, or the accumulation of attributes from other people or from objective reality. No one can hand me a reason or purpose for living. If I were only part of objective reality, a being "in itself," I would not need, or even desire a reason for living.
An authentic individual accepts the absurdity of life, that there is no meaning in life, and sets out to make his own way. To the extent that we deny this to ourselves, we live an inauthentic life that is rife with anxiety and despair. The only legitimate existential question is, "If I'm not living the life I imagine I should or want to be living, then why am not doing anything about it?" Both the search for meaning and the search for the meaning of happiness are pursuits of "non-being" and, again, will only throw us into constant conflict with objective reality which, in the end, offers us nothing of any existential consequence.
If I think of myself as an individual who I am not, if my actions do not reflect my thoughts and aspirations, then I am either delusional or participating in non-being. And I am most certainly practicing bad faith.
As an active alcoholic, I make a choice to live an inauthentic life, forfeiting my freedom along with my personal responsibility. I throw myself at the mercy of an uncaring and indifferent Universe. If I'm being honest with myself, then I must accept that every horrible thing that I do while I'm drinking, every stroke of misfortune that comes my way is my responsibility, regardless of my accomplishments and without appeal to objective circumstances or external "forces." To do otherwise is to surrender to despair, to live a life in which the best we can hope for is pity. Drunk or sober, there is not a single good reason why I shouldn't suffer. It is thus my responsibility to make my life meaningful.
I've learned that the most terrifying fear in existence is the reality that we are all free, and that we are all free to choose. When we drop the several veils of excuses around why we do and don't things in life in order to make our lives meaningful, in order to live as an authentic individual, what are we left with? Drinking for me is, above all else, an escape from freedom. The true horror of being sober is not that we have intense feelings, that we are riddled with guilt and shame, or that we worry over how other people may perceive us. It's that we are now free to choose.
I am responsible for who I am, and I am responsible for what I do. I demonstrate to myself that I am and who I am by taking responsibility for what I do and for the consequences of what I do.
"A human being is absolutely free and absolutely responsible. The result is anguish." Jean-Paul Sartre
An authentic individual accepts the absurdity of life, that there is no meaning in life, and sets out to make his own way. To the extent that we deny this to ourselves, we live an inauthentic life that is rife with anxiety and despair. The only legitimate existential question is, "If I'm not living the life I imagine I should or want to be living, then why am not doing anything about it?" Both the search for meaning and the search for the meaning of happiness are pursuits of "non-being" and, again, will only throw us into constant conflict with objective reality which, in the end, offers us nothing of any existential consequence.
If I think of myself as an individual who I am not, if my actions do not reflect my thoughts and aspirations, then I am either delusional or participating in non-being. And I am most certainly practicing bad faith.
As an active alcoholic, I make a choice to live an inauthentic life, forfeiting my freedom along with my personal responsibility. I throw myself at the mercy of an uncaring and indifferent Universe. If I'm being honest with myself, then I must accept that every horrible thing that I do while I'm drinking, every stroke of misfortune that comes my way is my responsibility, regardless of my accomplishments and without appeal to objective circumstances or external "forces." To do otherwise is to surrender to despair, to live a life in which the best we can hope for is pity. Drunk or sober, there is not a single good reason why I shouldn't suffer. It is thus my responsibility to make my life meaningful.
I've learned that the most terrifying fear in existence is the reality that we are all free, and that we are all free to choose. When we drop the several veils of excuses around why we do and don't things in life in order to make our lives meaningful, in order to live as an authentic individual, what are we left with? Drinking for me is, above all else, an escape from freedom. The true horror of being sober is not that we have intense feelings, that we are riddled with guilt and shame, or that we worry over how other people may perceive us. It's that we are now free to choose.
I am responsible for who I am, and I am responsible for what I do. I demonstrate to myself that I am and who I am by taking responsibility for what I do and for the consequences of what I do.
"A human being is absolutely free and absolutely responsible. The result is anguish." Jean-Paul Sartre
Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,361
If i pinch myself it hurts a bit.
And.
The 'emptiness' from Buddhist perspective.
Nothing exists on it's own. Everything is connected somehow. Like a tree needs water, sunlight and dirt.
Things like trees, dirt, sunlight and water appear to be real, therefor I am too.
And.
The 'emptiness' from Buddhist perspective.
Nothing exists on it's own. Everything is connected somehow. Like a tree needs water, sunlight and dirt.
Things like trees, dirt, sunlight and water appear to be real, therefor I am too.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,912
Ha! A discussion on reality... if I got started on what I think about it, I would likely still be sitting here typing in a week... or a year 
In the context of recovery though. The OP reminded me of thoughts I had many times regarding how we view our active addictions vs sobriety, our addict/alcoholic thoughts processes vs our clear-headed and responsible sober actions. The whole concept of what we call the temptations of the AV. There is often discussion on how that "voice" is a liar and its sole purpose is to seduce us into distorted views and destructive acts. It's also sometimes described as "unreal". But is it, really?
I personally do not see my past active alcoholism and whatever I had thought, felt, and done back then as unreal or untrue. To me, those things were just as real as all the wonders and challenges of a sober life -- a different aspect of the truth. Vividly and devastatingly real, not only for me but also for those that were bound to deal with me and tolerate (or run from) that "version" of myself. For me, designating sobriety as "The Truth" and viewing active addiction as some sort of bad demonic dream could be a dangerous thought process rather. Not saying it's bad or not helpful for others, but we are expressing our subjective opinions here so this is mine.
Are dreams really unreal? Or thoughts? Delusions? Viewing from a certain vantage point, yes, maybe. They are not happening outside of a person. I am also of a mind that perhaps sometimes we confuse the concept of reality with the concept of values.
The way I tend to think about reality in general: I don't like to split it up, discard parts of it, or put the label "unreal" on aspects of myself, other people, the world, or the universe. For me, that sort of thinking was a characteristic of my most troubled addictive thought processes and delusions -- they weren't unreal, but seriously misaligned and disturbing. That sort of splitting or black and white world view was utterly terrifying for me and completely alien -- I never in my life felt that way, not as a kid or young person, not in the midst of my biggest challenges and emotional turmoils, it was active alcoholism that brought it out of me as something new that I had never experienced before or at least was not conscious of it at all. Of course now there is no way of unseeing it.
I've always been a sort of individualist, but as a sober person, a sense of separateness, alienation, fear, and compulsive desire with regard to the external world ended for me. Not immediately, it's been a pretty gradual process (sometimes with sudden changes other times with slow progression). I find profound liberation and inner peace in this experience of... existence.
Oh, I just said in the beginning that I won't get into it in depth so I need to stop here otherwise nothing will get done today
In the context of recovery though. The OP reminded me of thoughts I had many times regarding how we view our active addictions vs sobriety, our addict/alcoholic thoughts processes vs our clear-headed and responsible sober actions. The whole concept of what we call the temptations of the AV. There is often discussion on how that "voice" is a liar and its sole purpose is to seduce us into distorted views and destructive acts. It's also sometimes described as "unreal". But is it, really?
I personally do not see my past active alcoholism and whatever I had thought, felt, and done back then as unreal or untrue. To me, those things were just as real as all the wonders and challenges of a sober life -- a different aspect of the truth. Vividly and devastatingly real, not only for me but also for those that were bound to deal with me and tolerate (or run from) that "version" of myself. For me, designating sobriety as "The Truth" and viewing active addiction as some sort of bad demonic dream could be a dangerous thought process rather. Not saying it's bad or not helpful for others, but we are expressing our subjective opinions here so this is mine.
Are dreams really unreal? Or thoughts? Delusions? Viewing from a certain vantage point, yes, maybe. They are not happening outside of a person. I am also of a mind that perhaps sometimes we confuse the concept of reality with the concept of values.
The way I tend to think about reality in general: I don't like to split it up, discard parts of it, or put the label "unreal" on aspects of myself, other people, the world, or the universe. For me, that sort of thinking was a characteristic of my most troubled addictive thought processes and delusions -- they weren't unreal, but seriously misaligned and disturbing. That sort of splitting or black and white world view was utterly terrifying for me and completely alien -- I never in my life felt that way, not as a kid or young person, not in the midst of my biggest challenges and emotional turmoils, it was active alcoholism that brought it out of me as something new that I had never experienced before or at least was not conscious of it at all. Of course now there is no way of unseeing it.
I've always been a sort of individualist, but as a sober person, a sense of separateness, alienation, fear, and compulsive desire with regard to the external world ended for me. Not immediately, it's been a pretty gradual process (sometimes with sudden changes other times with slow progression). I find profound liberation and inner peace in this experience of... existence.
Oh, I just said in the beginning that I won't get into it in depth so I need to stop here otherwise nothing will get done today
Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: California
Posts: 13,044
Thanks Dee, I love Ted Talks. However, now you have placed a question in my head that has always driven me crazy. "If there was nothing before the universe was created, then what was nothing, if there was never anything there... " it makes me nuts when I start thinking about this
Guest
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 120
Reminds me of this song with a great groove ... Never saw the movie where the sample comes from, but it's a conversation between an astronaut and a bomb, well, it's too crazy to explain, you just have to hear the dialogue haha !!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fP2r59XMMvM
Trudger of Happy Destiny
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Naperville, IL
Posts: 1,918
Wow. This question is pretty deep, actually...
How do I know I exist? Well, I have the ability to feel the one true emotion that defines existence in my opinion...which is love.
How do I know I exist? Well, I have the ability to feel the one true emotion that defines existence in my opinion...which is love.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,293
Originally Posted by Delilah1 
Thanks Dee, I love Ted Talks. However, now you have placed a question in my head that has always driven me crazy. "If there was nothing before the universe was created, then what was nothing, if there was never anything there... " it makes me nuts when I start thinking about this
Right now, I'm still trying to figure out why people at the gym I go to wear baseball hats and the occasional sun glasses. John
Administrator
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,456
Originally Posted by Thanos
Reminds me of this song with a great groove ... Never saw the movie where the sample comes from, but it's a conversation between an astronaut and a bomb, well, it's too crazy to explain, you just have to hear the dialogue haha !!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fP2r59XMMvM
It's from a movie called Dark Star - many years since I've seen it
[Doolittle convinces the bomb not to explode]
Doolittle: Hello, Bomb? Are you with me?
Bomb #20: Of course.
Doolittle: Are you willing to entertain a few concepts?
Bomb #20: I am always receptive to suggestions.
Doolittle: Fine. Think about this then. How do you know you exist?
Bomb #20: Well, of course I exist.
Doolittle: But how do you know you exist?
Bomb #20: It is intuitively obvious.
Doolittle: Intuition is no proof. What concrete evidence do you have that you exist?
Bomb #20: Hmmmm... well... I think, therefore I am.
Doolittle: That's good. That's very good. But how do you know that anything else exists?
Bomb #20: My sensory apparatus reveals it to me. This is fun.
Trudger of Happy Destiny
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Naperville, IL
Posts: 1,918
Originally Posted by 2muchpain
Yeah, I know what you mean. If there was nothing before the universe was created, then that nothing had to be something for that to happen. I mean, there always had to be something but that doesn't make sense either. Right? A real head scratcher.
Right now, I'm still trying to figure out why people at the gym I go to wear baseball hats and the occasional sun glasses. John
Right now, I'm still trying to figure out why people at the gym I go to wear baseball hats and the occasional sun glasses. John
Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,293
Originally Posted by Fernaceman
I wear a backwards baseball hat at the gym. Only when lifting, though. Not quite sure why.
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