Powerless Over People, Place and Things? – Not me.
Lost-n-Found
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Cairo
Posts: 923
Powerless Over People, Place and Things? – Not me.
A friend of mine on Facebook wrote this:
Note: Feel free to replace AA with NA.
"Why do I hear so many people at meetings say they are powerless over nouns? You know, nouns. In case you didn’t catch that episode of School House Rock, a noun is a person, place or thing and apparently, a lot of people are powerless over them.
See what happens the next time you hear someone at an A.A. meeting say “I’m powerless over alcohol.” If they’re feeling 'spiritual' they just might tag on a “I’m powerless over people, places and things, too.” Heads will nod in agreement. Your head might even be among them. The idea that we are not only powerless over alcohol, but nouns as well is rarely challenged but often repeated. Why is that? And what exactly does it mean to be ‘powerless?’
According to the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous ‘powerless over alcohol’ means we’ve lost the freedom of choice when it comes to our drinking. Nowhere in our literature does it say that we’ve lost the freedom of choice over people, places and things.
My experience has shown me that with sobriety comes the power to choose who I associate with (stick with the winners, right?) where I go (to a meeting instead of the bar) and what I do there (listen for the similarities instead of the differences). Therefore, while I am definitely powerless over alcohol, I am not powerless over people, places and things. Today, I have a choice.
Even though I do have the power of choice today, when my emotions get aroused, I sometimes choose to give my power away, anyway. When this happens, when I don’t practice ‘restraint of tongue and pen,’ I get resentful at that person, place or thing and end up having to, ironically enough, make amends for giving them my power.
However, when I’m spiritually fit, I can catch myself before I say or do something I’ll later regret. This daily practicing of Step 7 (Humbly asked him to remove our shortcomings) has restored me with the power to choose how I react to people, places and things that attempt to throw me off the A.A. beam.
So why do people say they’re powerless over nouns? Maybe because they’ve heard other people say it, seen the heads bob in agreement and know that if they say it too, they’ll get the same reaction. More than likely though, powerlessness is being honestly confused with acceptance.
Acceptance means learning to live with a problem you cannot change, like alcoholism. People, places and things are all changeable. So accept your alcoholism and feel free to change everything else because you have that power. After all, if you want to recover, all you have to change is everything, right? And the next time you feel like saying you’re powerless over people, places and things (you know, when you feel like playing the victim) remember, that is not recovery, it’s defeatism."
Written Today at 7:16am by Baxter J.
I think it's very interesting. What do you guys think?
Note: Feel free to replace AA with NA.
"Why do I hear so many people at meetings say they are powerless over nouns? You know, nouns. In case you didn’t catch that episode of School House Rock, a noun is a person, place or thing and apparently, a lot of people are powerless over them.
See what happens the next time you hear someone at an A.A. meeting say “I’m powerless over alcohol.” If they’re feeling 'spiritual' they just might tag on a “I’m powerless over people, places and things, too.” Heads will nod in agreement. Your head might even be among them. The idea that we are not only powerless over alcohol, but nouns as well is rarely challenged but often repeated. Why is that? And what exactly does it mean to be ‘powerless?’
According to the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous ‘powerless over alcohol’ means we’ve lost the freedom of choice when it comes to our drinking. Nowhere in our literature does it say that we’ve lost the freedom of choice over people, places and things.
My experience has shown me that with sobriety comes the power to choose who I associate with (stick with the winners, right?) where I go (to a meeting instead of the bar) and what I do there (listen for the similarities instead of the differences). Therefore, while I am definitely powerless over alcohol, I am not powerless over people, places and things. Today, I have a choice.
Even though I do have the power of choice today, when my emotions get aroused, I sometimes choose to give my power away, anyway. When this happens, when I don’t practice ‘restraint of tongue and pen,’ I get resentful at that person, place or thing and end up having to, ironically enough, make amends for giving them my power.
However, when I’m spiritually fit, I can catch myself before I say or do something I’ll later regret. This daily practicing of Step 7 (Humbly asked him to remove our shortcomings) has restored me with the power to choose how I react to people, places and things that attempt to throw me off the A.A. beam.
So why do people say they’re powerless over nouns? Maybe because they’ve heard other people say it, seen the heads bob in agreement and know that if they say it too, they’ll get the same reaction. More than likely though, powerlessness is being honestly confused with acceptance.
Acceptance means learning to live with a problem you cannot change, like alcoholism. People, places and things are all changeable. So accept your alcoholism and feel free to change everything else because you have that power. After all, if you want to recover, all you have to change is everything, right? And the next time you feel like saying you’re powerless over people, places and things (you know, when you feel like playing the victim) remember, that is not recovery, it’s defeatism."
Written Today at 7:16am by Baxter J.
I think it's very interesting. What do you guys think?
Om, Aum, Ohm...
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Punxsutawney/Pittsburgh
Posts: 4,797
Interesting. My take on the whole "powlerlessness" thing has everything to do with choice after the fact--I'm just as powerless over the various substances I used and abused as I was the day I walked away from them, if I make a decision (within my power) to put them back into my body. After that, all bets are off, and I don't have control (i.e., lack power) over what happens.
And when I apply the concept of powerlessness to nouns, I'm not talking about the choice (returned to me, thank you HP) of being around, going to, or incorporating in any way those nouns into my life. I'm talking about my ability to control those nouns. My life can become mighty unmanageable when I'm trying to control the actions or state of being of another person or situation. The only actions or state of being within my control are my own.
Just my take.
Peace & Love,
Sugah
And when I apply the concept of powerlessness to nouns, I'm not talking about the choice (returned to me, thank you HP) of being around, going to, or incorporating in any way those nouns into my life. I'm talking about my ability to control those nouns. My life can become mighty unmanageable when I'm trying to control the actions or state of being of another person or situation. The only actions or state of being within my control are my own.
Just my take.
Peace & Love,
Sugah
Evolving Addict
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New York State
Posts: 3,067
I think the author is trying to justify his own confusion. IMO, he contradicts himself here, and doesn't even know it:
Alcohol is a "thing" (noun), just as any other substance we can become addicted to. And in the context of addiction being the disease (NA Step 1), the various symptoms we can become addicted to cover a broad area that can include people and places associated with "using."
For me, the principle of open-mindedness allowed me to understand that an admittance of being powerless over people, places & things is merely an expression of humility and acceptance. I can name a very long list of "nouns" that I cannot control and are powerless over (I'm sure he could too if he got honest). If the author isn't powerless over these things, I suggest he come and control my life, my environment and the things I do.
IMO, in this case, it is truly better to understand than to be understood.
Although I often phrase it differently, I totally agree with Sugah:
I also disagree with the authors interpretation of Step 7. I'm inclined to believe he is more likely referring to Step 10 or 11.
Therefore, while I am definitely powerless over alcohol, I am not powerless over people, places and things. Today, I have a choice.
For me, the principle of open-mindedness allowed me to understand that an admittance of being powerless over people, places & things is merely an expression of humility and acceptance. I can name a very long list of "nouns" that I cannot control and are powerless over (I'm sure he could too if he got honest). If the author isn't powerless over these things, I suggest he come and control my life, my environment and the things I do.
IMO, in this case, it is truly better to understand than to be understood.Although I often phrase it differently, I totally agree with Sugah:
My life can become mighty unmanageable when I'm trying to control the actions or state of being of another person or situation.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: md
Posts: 3,042
Maybe people say that they don't have control over nouns because the people in their lives, especially other addicts, keep letting them down. At least that's my take on it. And often, circumstances can let you down too. I think you're right, that they really mean that need to accept people and situations over which they have no control. Powerless over who we choose to associate with and what we choose to do? I hope not.
KJ
KJ
Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Western N.Y.
Posts: 595
When I define powerlessness over people, places or things. I equate it to not being in control. When I am powerless to control the actions of others, that doesn't mean I am powerless to control the results of the situation by how I respond with my reaction.
It is the same being powerless, or not being able to control places and things, which could be any situation we face in life, from being in a place that we can't do anything about, to things such as the weather, causing a snow storm. Again the only thing we have power over is how we choose to respond by our reactions.
It is the same being powerless, or not being able to control places and things, which could be any situation we face in life, from being in a place that we can't do anything about, to things such as the weather, causing a snow storm. Again the only thing we have power over is how we choose to respond by our reactions.
Evolving Addict
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New York State
Posts: 3,067
I was just thinking...don't they have a reading in AA meetings that says:
(????)
I guess that could be viewed as we have "less" power than we think we do, eh? The ability to choose is empowering, but to claim responsibility for results is self-centered and closed-minded, IMO. I can't speak for others, but I'm certainly not perfect. I still make bad choices...sometimes.
"There is only one who has all power...may you find him now."
I guess that could be viewed as we have "less" power than we think we do, eh? The ability to choose is empowering, but to claim responsibility for results is self-centered and closed-minded, IMO. I can't speak for others, but I'm certainly not perfect. I still make bad choices...sometimes.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 2,274
I have power over my attitudes, ideas, and actions. That's a it. I can have an affect on people, places, and things, but I can control people, places, and things. There's a big difference and I need to be mindful of it.
Live it
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 255
This is interesting! Thanks for sharing this.
To me, I view someone in NA claiming that they are "powerless over people, places and things" to mean that, just for today, they are admitting that they cannot CONTROL other people, places or things. Perhaps this is a stretch - perhaps other people is enough.
However, I know that part of my disease is that I want everyone and everything to go MY way, to do what I want, to make MY life easier. So, for example: I want my boyfriend to get me to the airport at such and such a time, I want my plane to arrive at such and such a time, I want my diet pepsi to make me feel such and such a way, and if all of these things don't happen then I'm gonna be PISSED!
SO, instead of getting pissed, I try to "let go and let (life)" ... or, experience life on life's terms, and come to a serene understanding and acceptance of the fact that things will NOT always go my way - and it's okay.
See, the problem with SLOGANS is that it's like repeating one word, over and over again ... eventually, they lose their meaning. The whole idea behind our slogans was the make them easy to remember. And it does. Unfortunately, sometimes it also makes their MEANINGS easy to FORGET.
Much like saying a prayer so often before dinner that you forget the meaning of what you say. Or something similar. So, for today, I am going to pray for MINDFULNESS as well!
Sugar xo
To me, I view someone in NA claiming that they are "powerless over people, places and things" to mean that, just for today, they are admitting that they cannot CONTROL other people, places or things. Perhaps this is a stretch - perhaps other people is enough.
However, I know that part of my disease is that I want everyone and everything to go MY way, to do what I want, to make MY life easier. So, for example: I want my boyfriend to get me to the airport at such and such a time, I want my plane to arrive at such and such a time, I want my diet pepsi to make me feel such and such a way, and if all of these things don't happen then I'm gonna be PISSED!
SO, instead of getting pissed, I try to "let go and let (life)" ... or, experience life on life's terms, and come to a serene understanding and acceptance of the fact that things will NOT always go my way - and it's okay.
See, the problem with SLOGANS is that it's like repeating one word, over and over again ... eventually, they lose their meaning. The whole idea behind our slogans was the make them easy to remember. And it does. Unfortunately, sometimes it also makes their MEANINGS easy to FORGET.
Much like saying a prayer so often before dinner that you forget the meaning of what you say. Or something similar. So, for today, I am going to pray for MINDFULNESS as well!
Sugar xo
Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: beaver falls
Posts: 5
imagine fighting something that no matter what you do whips your ass everytime you put your hands up... no matter what you try, it wins everytime. you can struggle all you want but all the strength you can muster and manage to exert has no effect on the position you are in... thats powerless... and because when you are in that position and you can not MANAGE to get out, your situation is unmanagable until you surrender and give up the fight... once you stop trying to fight for control of something that is more powerful than you, your situation can begin to be managed again....
now while it is true that you may or may not have an effect on a person, place or thing, you will never be able to control them because each person has their own agenda no matter what you may think... even a parent soon realizes how powerless they can be the first time their kid breaks his leg or fails a test... you can try to help but you can never control a person... and when you try to control a person, place or thing to which you can not control your life will begin to become unmanagable... so much effort goes into trying to dictate situations and circumstance that you cant possibly manage their life and yours.... thats when obsession and compulsion sets in and thats when you wind up getting high.... trust and believe that... as far as places... if you think you have power over places then go to the bar and tell them to stop serving alcohal or better yet go to the block and make them stop selling drugs or how about you go to the desert and make it rain because you are trying to play god... then again if your an alcohalic or addict like myself youll learn the hard way and then you will understand... keep coming
now while it is true that you may or may not have an effect on a person, place or thing, you will never be able to control them because each person has their own agenda no matter what you may think... even a parent soon realizes how powerless they can be the first time their kid breaks his leg or fails a test... you can try to help but you can never control a person... and when you try to control a person, place or thing to which you can not control your life will begin to become unmanagable... so much effort goes into trying to dictate situations and circumstance that you cant possibly manage their life and yours.... thats when obsession and compulsion sets in and thats when you wind up getting high.... trust and believe that... as far as places... if you think you have power over places then go to the bar and tell them to stop serving alcohal or better yet go to the block and make them stop selling drugs or how about you go to the desert and make it rain because you are trying to play god... then again if your an alcohalic or addict like myself youll learn the hard way and then you will understand... keep coming
Disposable Hero
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Being, ME
Posts: 3,758
i wasted much of my time trying to reduce life to a balanced equation. i devised the most outrageous nonsense in my effort to demand that reality make some kind of logical sense to me. i got so smart in my own head that i forgot the simple pleasures of taking a breath, smelling a flower, or seeing a sunrise. For me, self proclaimed power over anything, anyone, or anywhere is an illusion. This works for me very well because when i rely on my self attained knowledge, control of everything outside of myself is an attractive defense against the harm i'm already causing myself. i am not the God of my own understanding! That job is already filled by someone infinatly more qualified than i. i hope that you will come to the undeniable conclusion that life is best lived simply and honestly. If you feel you must define something, i encourage you to daily define what surrender and acceptance means to you.
Lost-n-Found
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Cairo
Posts: 923
Originally Posted by Gmoney 
For me, the principle of open-mindedness allowed me to understand that an admittance of being powerless over people, places & things is merely an expression of humility and acceptance.
Thank guys
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Location: Indiana
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gmoney View Post
For me, the principle of open-mindedness allowed me to understand that an admittance of being powerless over people, places & things is merely an expression of humility and acceptance.
Originally Posted by Gmoney View Post
For me, the principle of open-mindedness allowed me to understand that an admittance of being powerless over people, places & things is merely an expression of humility and acceptance.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: calgary alberta
Posts: 3
people,places and things
I'm not powerless over people places and things, although there's a line in the preamble about letting go of old ideas and one of the old ideas i found it hardest wrap my head around was that it wasn't cool to hang around old people, places and things, the last thing i need as a recovering alcholic is to hear one of the old people from my past telling me one more time "ah you don't need to quit drinking, you just got to tone it down, that's all" and then watch them get drunk until they become so intolerable that I want to drink in order to to stand their presence, or have them bring me a bottle of whiskey the minute they hear I quit drinking, because I don't need any bad influences in my life, I need good influences, "stick with the winners" and all that. It's probably not a good Idea for me, as an alcoholic with an obvious addiction, to hang around places that offer gambling and free alcohol. And its probably not a good idea to carry a pewter whiskey flask in my "mickey" pocket any more. I choose not to drink, but by the grace of god go I, and I choose not to have it waved in my face, every chance I get!! Just an observation I learned after hearing many many times that these are not good things for me, and then one day while reading the preamble, I noticed that these were old ideas of mine that I found so hard to let go of. Thank you for caring.
~sb
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: MD
Posts: 15,967
I have no control over people in the "regular" world. The lady in the grocery store, the driver in the vehicle next to me, the loud person at a meeting, my family members. I don't have to react to them today, I have steps to utilize to deal with them without creating a problem.......
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
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dube...
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Welcome to our recovery community.
This is our NA 12 Step Support Forum
Please come share with other alcoholics in our Alcoholism Forum
Alcoholism - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information
Looking forward to seeing more of you...all my best
Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Longwood
Posts: 4
we can only change ourselves...
and our perceptions. i think that's the point. people places and things will not change; unless they want to. maybe you work at it to facilitate that process. good points about restraint of pen and tongue! thank you from israel, f.
Guest
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 393
I suffered for 3 years in recovery not admitting i was powerless over people. Arrests clean, hospital visits clean, etc ...
i'm powerless over the fact that i missed the bus ... i'm powerless over how others do or don't work the steps. there's a meditation in daily reflection on that if you go to index and look for first step entries ...
also, what exactly is a winner?Just For Today has an entry on that as well ... and there's also an entry that we don't judge, moralize ... each other, which to me compliments the winner entry.
Haven't read NA literature in the while so i'm may be wrong and can't pinpoint pages ...
i'm powerless over the fact that i missed the bus ... i'm powerless over how others do or don't work the steps. there's a meditation in daily reflection on that if you go to index and look for first step entries ...
also, what exactly is a winner?Just For Today has an entry on that as well ... and there's also an entry that we don't judge, moralize ... each other, which to me compliments the winner entry.
Haven't read NA literature in the while so i'm may be wrong and can't pinpoint pages ...
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