Zohydro, new drug
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Zohydro, new drug
Sen. Schumer, anti-drug advocates call on FDA to revoke 'super-drug' painkiller ZoHydro - News 12 Long Island
This is just scary.
At least one person dies a day from just heroin overdose in my area.
I hate drugs.
This is just scary.
At least one person dies a day from just heroin overdose in my area.
I hate drugs.
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 123
It's just plain sickening. Worse then Vicodin? Great like we need more opiates floating around for our children to get their hands on. My husband was only 21 years old when he discovered Vicodin- thank goodness this new drug wasnt around or else he would be dead today.
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Here's another article. Scary!!!
Is The Super Potent New Opiate Painkiller Zohydro Just Too Dangerous? - Forbes
Is The Super Potent New Opiate Painkiller Zohydro Just Too Dangerous? - Forbes
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One thing most articles are not saying is that:
Vicodin is available in 5, 7.5, 10, 15 mg of hydrocodone.
Zohydro will be available in 10, 15, 20, 30, 40, 50 mg of hydrocodone.
Oxycontin is available in 10, 15, 20, 30, 40, 60, 80, 160 mg of oxycodone.
So when they say Zohydro is 10x the potency of Vicodin, a 50mg Zohydro is 10x more potent than a 5 mg Vicodin, but only 3+x as potent as a 15 mg.
It could also be said that Zohydro is 16x LESS the potency of Oxycontin if you were comparing a 160 mg OC to a 10 mg Zohydro. (Plus, mg for mg, oxycodone is stronger than hydrocodone to begin with.
And, in some ways Zohydro is less damaging than Vicodin because it does not contain the acetaminophen which is what blows the liver out.
I'm not advocating for Zohydro, I still think it should have been manufactured in a less abusable form from the start.
But, some of the hype is in how they are wording these articles.
Vicodin is available in 5, 7.5, 10, 15 mg of hydrocodone.
Zohydro will be available in 10, 15, 20, 30, 40, 50 mg of hydrocodone.
Oxycontin is available in 10, 15, 20, 30, 40, 60, 80, 160 mg of oxycodone.
So when they say Zohydro is 10x the potency of Vicodin, a 50mg Zohydro is 10x more potent than a 5 mg Vicodin, but only 3+x as potent as a 15 mg.
It could also be said that Zohydro is 16x LESS the potency of Oxycontin if you were comparing a 160 mg OC to a 10 mg Zohydro. (Plus, mg for mg, oxycodone is stronger than hydrocodone to begin with.
And, in some ways Zohydro is less damaging than Vicodin because it does not contain the acetaminophen which is what blows the liver out.
I'm not advocating for Zohydro, I still think it should have been manufactured in a less abusable form from the start.
But, some of the hype is in how they are wording these articles.
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Join Date: Nov 2011
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thank you cynical for posting that.
I am constantly amazed at how many (the majority) people and professionals
take the media reports at face value. Most everything you can read (in the news)
has a slant to it. The mass general info put out there is plain old not true when
one gets down to it. I firmly believe within the next 2 years that the public
will have a much better idea of the whole issue.
I swear, sometimes my head could explode in frustration when talking
to people about this. No matter what you throw at them with reality, it won't
"stick". But the same articles repeated over and over in the "news", which
creates drama and over generalizations? THAT, they definitely believe.
Cheers
Oh - and my response is in not meant as a slam to the OP or anyone here.
I just deal with this out there, several times a week and get frustrated but
of course must curb my passionate response. Not that this was passionate.
I am constantly amazed at how many (the majority) people and professionals
take the media reports at face value. Most everything you can read (in the news)
has a slant to it. The mass general info put out there is plain old not true when
one gets down to it. I firmly believe within the next 2 years that the public
will have a much better idea of the whole issue.
I swear, sometimes my head could explode in frustration when talking
to people about this. No matter what you throw at them with reality, it won't
"stick". But the same articles repeated over and over in the "news", which
creates drama and over generalizations? THAT, they definitely believe.
Cheers
Oh - and my response is in not meant as a slam to the OP or anyone here.
I just deal with this out there, several times a week and get frustrated but
of course must curb my passionate response. Not that this was passionate.
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: TX
Posts: 731
I am really confused as to why their isn't a federal pharmacy link with controlled substances. Some of the pharmacies, in my area, know if a person has been filling a RX's at multiple pharmacies at the same time. This isn't always a given.....
I think that would help with the doctor/pharma shoppers.
I think that would help with the doctor/pharma shoppers.
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,125
Cynical has a great point here. I am not saying this isn't a dangerous drug, but to compare it to Heroin or even Oxy is a joke. 1 of these pills is about as strong as a 30mg oxy. They did quit making 160mg oxy and changed the formulation, but an 80mg oxy is still way more dangerous. As an addict back in my pill days I could easily take 300 mg of hydro a day and sometimes 500 mg (yes 50 10's) so 6 to 10 of these. Again not trying to say it is a good idea, but I think they hype is unwarranted. Oxy and Heroin are going to kill and continue to kill way more than this drug ever will. That being said prescription opioids are the gateway to Heroin for over 80% of users so is definitely not going to help matters.
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Posts: 864
Originally Posted by Txhelp 
I am really confused as to why their isn't a federal pharmacy link with controlled substances. Some of the pharmacies, in my area, know if a person has been filling a RX's at multiple pharmacies at the same time. This isn't always a given.....
I think that would help with the doctor/pharma shoppers.
I think that would help with the doctor/pharma shoppers.
I think almost all the states have some sort of prescription monitoring program.
But here is the problem, where do you think the doctor shoppers will be going once caught?
How far will this be taken? Are you willing to be tracked? I know I am not.
Gotta love it when we have an Office of Diversion Control….omg even the name screams insanity. Control, there is none. Diversion, seriously don’t they see the irony.
I really don’t like the idea of tracking, anymore than I like the idea of insurance companies being able to ask if one smokes or not. And I don’t understand how any of this is allowed to fly.
There are a hell of a lot of drugs stronger than vicoden on the chain. I would rather see one have a chance in the natural progression of the disease and maybe if not enabled actually learn something … then to be pushed to anything stronger. And in actuality if one is caught they are going to heroin real quick because it is way more cost effective on the street than pills are. Hell 5 mg oxys are 5 bucks on the street … well buy two of them or a bag of heroin and where I live most days there isn’t anything available stronger than heroin anywhere. Yeah lets push some more this direction.
And Lethe…I so get that passion, I have it myself
Don’t lose it.
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Inciting - I just wrote a book but am having to stifle ("Stifle Edith!") it all. Thank you 
I'll never lose my passion....just trying to control it.
quick-like- I know of no states on the eastern seaboard that dosen't track scripts. Many peeps in the profession will not tell you they can see it (scripts). It adds to the confusion when no one is on the up and up.
It's not illegal to procure scripts for pain, see specialists, get more pain meds as long as it's based on your treatment.
I know of no people in pain management that sell their meds. NONE. They're too hard to get. No one is dying from overdoses since it's near impossible to do that without mixing in other chemicals.
The diversion (here-will not comment on the rest of the world) comes from pharmacists, doctors, nurses, ER's...the average patient? No. I speak from personal experience on this one - granted, it's a experience in the hills of where I live but my dealings can not be ignored. I'm beyond thrilled that my state rep has actually given me his blessing (and more importantly his "ok") to do some survey work in the county.
This is a farming community...so everyone hobbles and has bad backs. Now they can't get meds. Just cut straight off over the doctor's fear of the DEA. Of course, most will just limp, hobble or stay home as they'd die rather than get near a illegal drug. They stop working, stop moving and the fallout from that is broad. Family, friends and work. No quality of life.
- just deleted several more paragraphs. Stifle, Edith!
I'll never lose my passion....just trying to control it.quick-like- I know of no states on the eastern seaboard that dosen't track scripts. Many peeps in the profession will not tell you they can see it (scripts). It adds to the confusion when no one is on the up and up.
It's not illegal to procure scripts for pain, see specialists, get more pain meds as long as it's based on your treatment.
I know of no people in pain management that sell their meds. NONE. They're too hard to get. No one is dying from overdoses since it's near impossible to do that without mixing in other chemicals.
The diversion (here-will not comment on the rest of the world) comes from pharmacists, doctors, nurses, ER's...the average patient? No. I speak from personal experience on this one - granted, it's a experience in the hills of where I live but my dealings can not be ignored. I'm beyond thrilled that my state rep has actually given me his blessing (and more importantly his "ok") to do some survey work in the county.
This is a farming community...so everyone hobbles and has bad backs. Now they can't get meds. Just cut straight off over the doctor's fear of the DEA. Of course, most will just limp, hobble or stay home as they'd die rather than get near a illegal drug. They stop working, stop moving and the fallout from that is broad. Family, friends and work. No quality of life.
- just deleted several more paragraphs. Stifle, Edith!
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Originally Posted by Lethe
...They stop working, stop moving and the fallout from that is broad. Family, friends and work. No quality of life.
- just deleted several more paragraphs. Stifle, Edith!
- just deleted several more paragraphs. Stifle, Edith!
I know a couple of people who are chronic pain sufferers. They took their medication (Oxy) as prescribed. All this fallout went down, and they got caught up in the fear. Their doctors cut them off. Neither could no longer do their jobs, they both retired, are drawing disability, and they feel worthless that they can no longer make a living, do things around the house, or even do things with their grandkids. I see the depression where there never was any before. Their quality of life has severely suffered. They weren't hurting anybody, not even themselves.
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Why stifle?
There needs to be passionate, educated, rational, non reactive, non driven by fear talking going on, with this specific subject as well as addiction. It really does effect everyone in and outside of addiction even if they don’t realize it yet.
I would be really interested to know what your survey results are Lethe, when in. I am sure even in the area you are in you will show a result that can be found in other areas if they were surveyed.
I would also be very curious to know if anyone cut off was offered alternative treatment and or medications at all at any time during their treatment but especially after they were just cut off.
I would be interested to know if they were singled out based on the pain medication they took (meaning oxy vs. another medication), if they knew of others in the practice cut off as well.
I would also be interested to hear stories of those who actually were cut off who stopped using and sought treatment immediately with the change.
Who stopped using and went looking for treatment and if they could find any.
There is so much talk always with this, if it helps just one person. So did it? Even if I might question that the person themselves would have never hit a bottom buying on the street to begin with.
Doctors have been put in a really bad place, and it will effect the care of their patients. I can share similar stories, knowing those cut off. I can also share I know not one addict, not one person who actually does divert their scripts who have also been cut off, but I do know that pills are becoming harder to get… I don’t want to say that is because people are being cut off, I more attribute it to demand being so much higher on the street, which it is for both pills and heroin. I am even seeing trending of heroin being offered where it wasn’t before as a substitute when the pills sell out and the wait begins for the next script to be written.
It looks like bait and switch at times … It shifts and it always will … be it crossing state lines to fill scripts, well until the state of choice got a monitoring system, or to another drug. It is the same with drug corners shut one down one minute shop sets up a bit down the street almost as instantly. Shifting the problem has proven it doesn’t work either over and over.
Looks like the definition of insanity most days.
There needs to be passionate, educated, rational, non reactive, non driven by fear talking going on, with this specific subject as well as addiction. It really does effect everyone in and outside of addiction even if they don’t realize it yet.
I would be really interested to know what your survey results are Lethe, when in. I am sure even in the area you are in you will show a result that can be found in other areas if they were surveyed.
I would also be very curious to know if anyone cut off was offered alternative treatment and or medications at all at any time during their treatment but especially after they were just cut off.
I would be interested to know if they were singled out based on the pain medication they took (meaning oxy vs. another medication), if they knew of others in the practice cut off as well.
I would also be interested to hear stories of those who actually were cut off who stopped using and sought treatment immediately with the change.
Who stopped using and went looking for treatment and if they could find any.
There is so much talk always with this, if it helps just one person. So did it? Even if I might question that the person themselves would have never hit a bottom buying on the street to begin with.
Doctors have been put in a really bad place, and it will effect the care of their patients. I can share similar stories, knowing those cut off. I can also share I know not one addict, not one person who actually does divert their scripts who have also been cut off, but I do know that pills are becoming harder to get… I don’t want to say that is because people are being cut off, I more attribute it to demand being so much higher on the street, which it is for both pills and heroin. I am even seeing trending of heroin being offered where it wasn’t before as a substitute when the pills sell out and the wait begins for the next script to be written.
It looks like bait and switch at times … It shifts and it always will … be it crossing state lines to fill scripts, well until the state of choice got a monitoring system, or to another drug. It is the same with drug corners shut one down one minute shop sets up a bit down the street almost as instantly. Shifting the problem has proven it doesn’t work either over and over.
Looks like the definition of insanity most days.
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quick notes as have to come back later when there's time.
Cynical - what you wrote about the quality of life and how not having meds have affected those people? That is why I am doing what I can to help. More later and prolly do it in PM....at least some as it's difficult for me to post sometimes.
Kindeyes - It's one that can be/is very polarizing. It's right on line with the other touchy subjects in life.
Inciting - wow! You really have some well worded questions in your post- thank you for taking the time here. I have lots to write back to you.
School bus early today. Sun's out and it's not freezing for a change. Gonna go get a tan. har har har
Cheers!
Cynical - what you wrote about the quality of life and how not having meds have affected those people? That is why I am doing what I can to help. More later and prolly do it in PM....at least some as it's difficult for me to post sometimes.
Kindeyes - It's one that can be/is very polarizing. It's right on line with the other touchy subjects in life.
Inciting - wow! You really have some well worded questions in your post- thank you for taking the time here. I have lots to write back to you.
School bus early today. Sun's out and it's not freezing for a change. Gonna go get a tan. har har har
Cheers!
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 864
Are the reporters watching our threads?
And the office of diversion control was mentioned.
Many of us knew this before the regulations went into effect.
Experts: Officials missed signs of prescription drug crackdown’s effect on heroin use - The Washington Post
And the office of diversion control was mentioned.
Many of us knew this before the regulations went into effect.
Experts: Officials missed signs of prescription drug crackdown’s effect on heroin use - The Washington Post
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Join Date: Nov 2011
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am still not able to spend more than a minute on this...
just a couple things
The guy at the Diversion Office? I highly doubt he will be there within a year.
With everything out there being talked about, granted it's slow in coming out, that disproves everything he said in the article...it's hard to even read his stuff but his office and the DEA have made this into a witch hunt and a load of "things that don't compute", confusing everyone. I don't know them ever to backtrack so.... eh, blargh.
Yes, most pain patients/professionals saw this being a problem. Where I live the ones in really bad physical shape
just take a lot of drugs (otc) and tough it out. Unfortunately, many younger people have chosen heroin. Or suicide. Quite a few suicides...well above any other 12 month period. Goes right in line with the incident that happened in our county - I can talk about that in a PM.
One huge problem is pain patients/chronic pain is lost in the most articles. They are nearly synonymous labels and it's added so much confusion. When peeps hear pain clinic or pain patient, they automatically think "drug addict."
It makes this whole subject awfully hard to talk about.
which brings me to asking if this should be moved to the Pain Management Forums? I'm a bit leery of writing more in this forum.
I almost feel I'm doing something wrong when I type here.
Yay or nay?
Gotta run!
just a couple things
The guy at the Diversion Office? I highly doubt he will be there within a year.
With everything out there being talked about, granted it's slow in coming out, that disproves everything he said in the article...it's hard to even read his stuff but his office and the DEA have made this into a witch hunt and a load of "things that don't compute", confusing everyone. I don't know them ever to backtrack so.... eh, blargh.
Yes, most pain patients/professionals saw this being a problem. Where I live the ones in really bad physical shape
just take a lot of drugs (otc) and tough it out. Unfortunately, many younger people have chosen heroin. Or suicide. Quite a few suicides...well above any other 12 month period. Goes right in line with the incident that happened in our county - I can talk about that in a PM.
One huge problem is pain patients/chronic pain is lost in the most articles. They are nearly synonymous labels and it's added so much confusion. When peeps hear pain clinic or pain patient, they automatically think "drug addict."
It makes this whole subject awfully hard to talk about.
which brings me to asking if this should be moved to the Pain Management Forums? I'm a bit leery of writing more in this forum.
I almost feel I'm doing something wrong when I type here.
Yay or nay?
Gotta run!
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 864
In a rush here as well….finally a night out with friends, all this polar vortex, snow stuff has left us all hermits here.
This is an important topic and one that was driven in its inception by the people … by desperation, heartache and fear, by codependency?, by a need to do something, anything. I do feel that the ramifications of the ban oxy fight should be shown. All that need to save the children put them more in harms way, and also effected those who weren’t bothering anyone, weren’t perpetuating the problem. Took the quality of life away from so many. It also has the potential (probably will) to effect each of us as time moves on. Many may come to find that are not able to get the care they need to have some quality of life because of the regulations and fear from doctors.
So definitely talk where you feel comfortable, but don’t dare not speak because of which board you are on.
More later….
This is an important topic and one that was driven in its inception by the people … by desperation, heartache and fear, by codependency?, by a need to do something, anything. I do feel that the ramifications of the ban oxy fight should be shown. All that need to save the children put them more in harms way, and also effected those who weren’t bothering anyone, weren’t perpetuating the problem. Took the quality of life away from so many. It also has the potential (probably will) to effect each of us as time moves on. Many may come to find that are not able to get the care they need to have some quality of life because of the regulations and fear from doctors.
So definitely talk where you feel comfortable, but don’t dare not speak because of which board you are on.
More later….
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