RiAt

So... I had over a year and a half went back out years ago and have not been able to stay clean even a month straight in over 4 years. I o.d.ed 5 times and visited 4 detoxs along the way. Not to mention all the other stuff that happened. Now I went to a detox, stayed for the rehab, got a clear message. Went back out the day after I got out. Lost EVERYTHING that was not already gone in 3 weeks. Got an appointment with a suboxone doctor, and (amazingly) got clean. I began that day to go to 2 meetings a day plus day treatment 3 times a week for 4 hours each day. Getting into the middle of the program . BUT upon doing so people began hearing I was on suboxone (I made no secret of it, if it's a secret it's a drug to me) and began showing their dislike for it. People have told me I'm not clean, people have told me not to raise my hand because it's a mind-altering substance and NA want to hear from me and not the drug, people have told me to come off it because they "know" I don't need it, etc. I'm very careful (when sober) about what I put into my body medication-wise. I was mis-diagnosed with depression for years when I infact had epilepsy, and was given a medication which greatly increases seizures in folks with epilepsy. I do not **** around anymore. I read about the effects on the receptors, the comparissons with methadone, etc. I read that it's worked miracles (there is infact an entire one of these chat sites dedicated to people who used it and got clean after as much as 20 years trying "everything") and has an 80% success rate as well. And I gotta tell you I FELT sober, even in the beginning at 18mg. I personally did not feel high. Am I unique? It's my 30th day today. I'm down to a quarter of a pill (2mg). I've been decreasing since I started, to avoid the risk of dependance. I have a few more days of that and then I'm done. Coming off it has been a cinch (though it said even the placebo patients got withdrawl). Let's just say this, I know a woman who (in the program) who was addicted to Sudafed, took 60 pills of it a day to get high. Me, I've never had a problem with Sudafed (even though now they're saying you can use it in the making of meth), so I don't consider myself "getting high" if I'm sick and a take it. I was Sick so I took suboxone. It takes a couple monthes to taper safely so that there's no withdrawl. I did as such and even cut my doctor's suggested amount of treatement time in half. On the Area website it says that people on methadone and "other drug-replacement therapies" should not be allowed to chair a meeting.

So to sum it all up: here I am being told I can't chair, I was told I could not speak on a commitment (that allowed newcomers to share), I've been told not to raise my hand, and I've even been told I'm not clean. Of the like 50 meetings I've been to in the last 30 days, I've left like 20 of them crying cuz someone got to me with this ********. I'm shameful, scared, lonely, it's hard to come back, and this is my welcome.

Thank god I've been doing this over 6 years or else I would have left. I've already drasticly swapped NA meetings back to AA. No one there has said a goddamn negative word to me about this stuff. I dunno. Feedback? sorry to ramble... heh... crazy newcomers *sigh*....

splendra

I don't know how you NA group thinks they are helping you...I thought the only requirement for membership was the desire to stop using. It does not seem that they are not being very supportive. I think you ought to continue with AA...

RiAt

Wow, I'm sorry for writing such long rant. It was late at night, I am having a really hard time in general and it came out more than I wanted. You see, I've lost 3 friends over this whole suboxone battle because they disagree with it. (I don't have many friends right now, as I said I'm just coming back.) I saw two of them last night. I went up to get my 30 day keychain and it just felt hollow with them looking at me. I truly believe that "the only requirement for membership is the desire", "you decide when you're a member", and that your clean date is for you and your higherpower to determine. But..... I did have people with over a year tell me that they were on bupe their first 3 monthes and counted it as clean. But you know how it is: selective hearing. I was searching online for a definative answer in the opinion of NA what the belief is about whether you're sober if you're taking Suboxone. I feel like I need a co-sign . However it seems like even that's not enough. I don't know how to get over all this. I mean as I said, I'll be done with the stuff in like 2 days. But the hurt I've been made to feel around all of it makes me feel unclean. Even if I didn't count the time (I mean it's not as though this is a race) I don't think it would fix it. I know once I'm off it I'll gain back the friends but I almost don't want them to come back like that. I feel in my heart like I've been clean a month, sh*t if I thought I was using why not go the whole nine? I know it's beating a dead horse at this point , but it keeps coming up. This one friend of mine even raised her hand after I spoke once and publicly went on about how people on it should not share, and how she had a spiritual awakening and knew she never needed any pill to get her clean. She didn't say my name but many people knew she was refering to me. I wanted to sink under my chair. I guess my real question which I never really got to stating last night is: is this just my area or is this NA as a whole? My understanding was that there WAS no definative opinion on this. But I could be wrong. These people are acting like they run NA. I just wanted to verify, is this an opinion thing or is there something that actually states the answer? Thank you so much for the response I did get. Sorry again to go on. (I'm long-winded.)

splendra

(((RiAt)))

I know that this is hurting you and I am really sorry. I do not know anything at all about the drugs you are on to help you get off the other drugs that you were addicted to. I do know that you deserve to be treated with respect and that the people in your group do not seem very supportive. I urge you to find another group...

carolm

I can't understand your NA meeting group. Is it only one group? When I came off coke 12 years ago, they didn't offer me a thing to help; and I think I would have taken it. I, too, relapsed over and over and went to 4 rehabs. Maybe its just the thing you needed.

I have no complaints about NA because when I sobered up, there was only AA to go to. I loved it, the people were for the most part wonderful (you always have a few), and I did several meetings a day for months. Maybe you should try an AA group.

Regardless, I wouldn't go back to that particular NA group if you leave feeling lousy. Find another NA group or AA.

Whatever you do, don't let if get you down. You are doing what you need to do to get clean. No one should be able to knock you for that.

Take care. My thoughts and prayers are with you.

Carol

Blake

((((RiAT))))

First, I love you and I would welcome you at any of the meetings I attend. I was on methadone for 2 years before I got clean.

THe only requirement for membership in NA is a desire to stop using, this is clearly stated in our 3rd tradition.

NA's opinion of drug replacement programs such as methadone and bupe is stated in this bullitin from world services http://www.na.org/bulletins/bull29.htm

So what these people are telling you is actually what NA has told addicts as a whole. If they intone any maliciousness in thier tone, that is not NA, it is their own character defects comming out.

I know some other people in recovery that went to AA untill they were completely abstinate. AA's deffinition of "sober" is simply not drinking. However, AA's message is that it is a place for alcoholics only and if you are not an alcoholic, you can not be a member...so that may be something you have to deal with in that fellowship.

I know that methadone saved my life and I am greatful for it. You are actively taking steps to work towards being clean and that is awsome. I wish you luck and happines.

Blake

RiAt

That's the thing: I really do enjoy NA. I mean in my area it seems like people in the A.A. groups have longer cleantime as a whole and seem to generally be less prone to relapse, but there are the people who strong discourage talk about drugs besides alcohol. I'm here this time for shooting speedballs, it's most of my story. I like that I can relate on those levels in NA. It's not one group though. It's mostly 2 specific people who are continuing to give me trouble, and they go to EVERY NA meeting I go to. They are always there. Believe me I tried to avoid just them but I can't unless I switch fellowships entirely. But I LIKE going to both, it gives me an equal balance. So running seems not to be the answer. I know I'm a big baby about all this. Trust me, I hate to even reveal how much it's messing me up, and I wish it wasn't. I wish it didn't bother me. But since it does I gotta talk about it somewhere.

godsonmyside

My suggestion would be go to meetingand bring it up as a topic, it may feel crazy, but at least you'll be free. The 2 people you are given this power to will back off. If you give them the power to keep it up they will. If you do the right thing, right things will happen. You may not agree right now. I was told don't tell God how big your problem are, tell your problems how big your God is. I believe if you want to stay clean you will.

Peace,
Todd J.

Blake

If you enjoy NA, go to NA.....I personally LOVE NA and believe I owe the fellowship more than I'll ever be able to repay.

Do you have a sponsor? Another thing some people I know that have been on drug replacement have done is to keep the sharing about their bupe or methadone to their sponsors. It really isn't anyone else's buisness, and if 2 people are specifically making it hard for you, maybe they should be told to mind their own buisness and take their own inventory...What are their motives?

I use to try to go to AA and I would get pissed when an oldtimer would tell me to stop talking about dope...it actually made me hate AA for a while b/c I thought "those old farts are assholes that don't want any dirty junkies around them..." SInce then I have found out that they were just trying to protect their fellowships primary purpose and to keep their message clear, and I shouldn't take it personally....Bill Wilson actually wrote an article about "problems other than alcohol" in the grapevine, http://silkworth.net/grapevine/other_problems.html which is why I don't attend AA anymore, I'm not an alcoholic...

The main thing is that you need to do what you need to do to keep you from doing more dope, you never have to do dope again.

Love you,
Blake

Cindi R

Some of the hardcore NA Nazi's will tell you that you shouldn't take and asprin if you have a headache!
Or smoke a cigarette or drink a cup of coffee cause they may give you a buzz...
Personally I think that if you're seeing a Physician and have a prescription and are taking those medications as directed then I'd try not to worry about some of those other peoples opinions...
Stand up straight and tall and let no one tell you that you're not clean and sober!
They can go jump in a lake!
Other peoples opinions really are none of your business!
****{Hugs}}} RiAT!
Congrats on 30 days...
Thats awesome!

servicejunkie

I was also about to refer you to the world service bullitin that blake posted above as well. Please read that if you havn't already to get some clarity. Where would we draw the line with people sharing or doing service in the publics eye?? It would send a blurred and inconsistent message of recovery if people who were using illicit drugs were chairing our meetings and sharing ect... If suboxone is something that is getting you started on the path to total abstinance, and its working for you, I'm all for it!!! I'm glad you are taking it to detox, instead of as maintainance like some people do (That really -wouldn't- be a desire to STOP using if it were for maintainance would it???)And about that 80% success rate, I don't know how in the world they would possibly be able to get those figures, or what they would consider a "success", but I've sponsored at least five or six guys on it and seen another dozen or so around on it, and actually I only know of one person who has made it over a year!! And she takes it for pain management. Love & Respect, Mike L

REZ

This is a tough topic. I can see both sides. On the one hand our traditions say that "the only requirement for membership is a desire to stop using," and you do have that. So you should be completely welcome in meetings. On the other hand, doing some types of service work in NA is a different story. Most groups require a certain amount of clean time before chairing meetings, serving on H & I panels, or serving as a trusted servant. The traditions also say that "our common welfare comes first; personal recovery depends upon NA unity." I can see how having someone who is still on methadone or suboxone doing important service work could distrupt NA unity. I think you could be involved in minimal service work (helping to clean up, set up, etc), but I would also agree that chairing meetings is not appropriate until you have gotten off the prescription medications for opoiod dependence. I don't consider myself an NA Nazi, but I think there is a difference between caffeine/nicotine and methodone/suboxone.

Cindi R

Suboxone is unlike methadone...
Read the information yourself:
http://www.suboxone.com/patients/suboxone/

servicejunkie

What alot of you are not realizing is that this is addressed in our literature!! I'm not denying the fact that methadone and suboxone are different DRUGS either, but a simple fact is is that they are both used for the same thing, substitution, which is address once again, in our literature (the above link bulliten 29). You are perfectly in line to be a member of NA if you want, NOT necessarily because you say you are, but because you have a desire to -STOP- using! I'm not here writing this to discuss whether or not you are "using", I think that is also addressed in our literature, and many groups (also at the suggestion of our literature) put in their format that "if you have used today, we ask that you please just listen, and get with an NA member after the meeting". When sharing also, I personally prefer the here the REAL you, not the you who the chemicals made you (and yes, suboxone does affect your personality). And once again, in regards to the 5th tradition, what kind of message does that carry to the addict who still suffers?? And as far as some NA nazis go and the use of Caffine and nicotine, that is also in the literature if you look into it good enough!! In our "Guide to Public Information" book, it states "We do believe that our members can maintain a spiritual program while using caffine and nicotine, where as they couldn't on drugs like alcohol or marijuana for example". Don't mean to sound like a nazi, after all, I do sponsor a couple guys on it now!! I do however believe in the importance of the traditions. I am also familiar with that essay by Bill Wilson from AA concerning other problems than alcohol. That is definately VERY relevent to what we are dealing with here in NA.
Mike

TONYTEXAS

Lets See I Say Fvck All Those People In Your Na Groups That Are Telling You Sh1t Like Your Not Clean And You Cannot Share. Thats Ridiculous. I Witnessed The Same Things At Groups Before And Havent Been Pleased With Them Since. Except Sr Anyway Keep Doing What Your Doing. I Would Be Dead If I Didnt Find Subutex No Doubts At All. Sorry If I Came Off Mean Here But Many People I Know Would Still Be Alive Today If They Found This Medicine And I Dont Like Hearing People Giving You Sh1t About It. Good Luck To You!

nja

I really don't know what more I could add to this post that would help, but recovery is totally an individual journey. Only you and your Higher Power can really know what is right for you and your personal program. I think the advice to keep the Bupe between you and your sponsor at this point is probably good advice cuz there's really nothing you can do about other members of NA judging you, though it's kind of sad that you are being judged so harshly. When I was detoxing, I got down to such a low dose of Methadone that I didn't go with the Buprenorphine at all. Looking back on it, I think it would have helped me function more like a normal human being. It was my understanding from reading up on it and talking with the Psychiatrist that helped me detox that the Bupe keeps the opiod receptors from crying out for junk, keeps the gastrointestinal stuff and the other side effects from detox from being such a problem. It was also my understanding that the Bupe in no way gives a person any sort of high or any false sense of well being or euphoria that is normally associated with Methadone or other opiates. You're on the right track and with a good sponsor and the help of a higher power this will pass. Keep going to NA, though and pray for those who are condescending toward you or judging you. They will find at some point that treating you that way is damaging to their personal recovery. Just try not to judge them back. It's hard. Nobody ever said recovery was easy and it's not. NA works, it's just when we bring our personal baggage into it that things get messy. It's a simple program for complicated people. Hang in there.

Gooch

remember that the NA program is a set of principles, and the fellowship is a group of men and women for whom drugs had become a major problem.

Until they get the drugs out of their systems long enough to discover the real deal.

servicejunkie

I also hope I didn't come off harsh or critical in my posts above either. I was really just trying to emphasize that this is addressed in our literature, and for very good reasons. I'm actually definately a big advocate for bupenorphene. I'm very glad that you are here trying to get some guidance on this and more importantly, that you are on the track to recovery and a new way of life!! Love & Respect, Mike L.