ChrisMan

Hi everybody,

One part of addiction that has always puzzled me is my tendency to want to sabotage my own recovery -- to really ruin things for myself in a big way. Oftentimes we hear about addiction being "baffling" and so many of us have this experience. But I am wondering why?

Does anyone else have the experience of wanting to sabotage his or her own recovery? If so, do you have any reflections on this? Why do we want to do this? Is it out of fear? Boredom? Force of habit? Something else?

It is one of my hardest hurdles in terms of recovery. And, at this point (I have almost five months), I really don't want to do mess up again. I really, really, really want to stay sober this time.

Any thoughts/reflections are greatly appreciated.

ChrisMan

Anna

Chris,

I know exactly what you mean. I sabotaged myself so many times. Things would be going just great and then, everything would fall apart. I thought about it a lot and I know for me it was because it felt more comfortable to fail. I was used to feeling like I couldn't accomplish anything, like I'd never amount to anything. When I would get 3 sober weeks going for me, I didn't know what to feel. I might actually accomplish this...and then what?? I had no idea what to expect then. It was a scary notion to actually change my life and move forward and took a lot of 'self-talk' to get beyong that. It was a huge hurdle for me and I did it and I know you can to. Tell yourself that you can experience success and accomplishment and move forward in your life!

Love, Anna

Dunitall

Chrisman

Much of this comes from our childhood feelings. As adults we tend to live by "scripts" which were formed in our early years. Unless we can learn to understand those scripts it is very hard to change.

For me, I have repeatedly ruined relationships through drinking. I am working extremely hard to save my current relationship, but it has taken lots of counselling and AA meetings for me to understand why I am who I am.

Without the understanding, we all inevitably wreak the same chaos over and over again. Whether we mean to or not, the results can't change unless we change.

I know how much I'm changing, but believe me that right now it hurts. As long as I continue my recovery I have hope for tomorrow. But it needs to be a day at a time.

Stick in there. You and all of us WILL make it.

Rich

Don W

Chrisman, I did it so many times. The driving part was not feeling I deserved to be happy. My whole adult life I was more at ease being yelled at than complimented. Like Duntail said, the past plays a big role. PTSD counseling has helped me. I would stay and listen to my boss or anyone rip me apart. However, if they were telling me how great I was, I couldn't wait to get out. I can now simply say " Thank You." Have you also had proplems devaluing you accomplishments. I'd do something and somebody would say it was great. I would then proceed to point out every mistake they didn't notice. I also don't understand why we do that to ourselves at times. Even now, I catch myself posting the following. Somebody will say the have x amount of time. I will respond, "That is great, I only have 19 months." I'm truly happy for them but, there is nothing only about my time. That is another thing I don't understand. When I post something like, I have 19 months, I want to be complimented but, as soon as I am, I feel uncomfortable. Many times I'd struggle with sabotaging my recovery but, all the while set myself up. I'd stand outside the bar until my self talk would change to, " Your never going to change, drink and get it over with. The last few days there have been some great posts about the simple basics. What great reminders they are. Don W

exzim

Chris - thank you for posting this - I have the same struggle. Anna and Dunitall thanks for your replies - well at least I'm glad I'm not alone with this! I regularly sabotage relationships. I have so much trouble with compliments - they used make me feel almost "turned inside out" - I have progressed to a place now - where I try to, but have trouble believing them! And find myself thinking -"you poor thing - you are so wrong" when logically I know that some of them must be right some of the time!

May we progress with this struggle in 2005.

Maggie

cj.

Hey ChrisMan:

Recovery is about change and change can be a very frightening, painful experience for any recovering person. I've often heard it said about the reason why we sabotage ourselves is -

Better the devil we know, than the devil we don't!

Practicing a new way of life based on spiritual principles takes a lot of hard work and effort on our part, but if you are anything like me, I usually want to change with just a thought to make it so!! Never works, though! I always get out of my life exactly what I put into it!!

Peace
cj

ChrisMan

Wow, this is a great thread. Thanks to all of you, because I was really feeling down on myself yesterday (for no good reason. today feeling a little better). I thought, I just better post right away before I do something I would regret later. A couple statements that were made really leaped out at me.

Anna, your phrase "it felt more comfortable to fail" really hit me between the eyes (in a good way). I have to say that it is probably the case with me as well. It does feel more comfortable for me to fail -- in the short run. Of course, in the long run, it feels horrible. But there is a certain desire for me to seek comfort in failure, or at least to seek some sort of comfort in the familiar (failure felt very familiar for most of my life). Thank goodness sobriety is getting more and more familiar and comfortable.

And, as other have suggested, I have a very bad habit of looking down on myself. Don W, wow, I have posted pretty much what you have on occasion ("Congratulations on xxxx months/years of sobriety. You are an inspiration, because I have only 4 months.") In fact, I really have to thank you, because it's a great reminder -- that's what got me into trouble before. Every sobriety anniversary became a let down for me, a new chance to berate myself ("I have only one month." "I have only two months." "I have only three months." etc.). I am really trying to live a positive, full, and complete sobriety. Sobriety, I realized, is complete in and of itself. Before, I was "waiting" until I had maybe a year before I could say I was really "sober." No wonder I never got very far. Now I am trying to practice saying things like "I am sober and complete right now." "Complete" in the sense that my sobriety can't be fragmented or empty as if I am waiting for someone or something else to fill it. Either I am sober or I am not.

exlibris

ChrisMan you are right, this is a great thread.

I agree with everything posted.

And I love the affirmation. "I am sober and complete right now." I'm going to use it - alot. It's one of those things that you have to remind yourself of.

Have a safe and sober New Years's everyone!

Richard

Phinneas

Hey, Chris. Happy New Year, everyone.

This is an important topic, I think. I am the queen of self-sabotage. For me, I have identified that I do not love myself... low self-worth, self-esteem.... So, when things get going really good in my life or in a relationship my pattern is to sabotage it. It's like I subconsciously say, Huh, look at this, I don't really deserve it. And then I do something to wreck it. More comfortable in misery than success, maybe.

Before I got into drugs, for example, I was happier than I ever imagined I could be. I had a great job, house, car (all the trappings), and I married the man of my dreams. Then it was almost like that deep, dark part of me said, Hey, you don't deserve this. I'm going to fck this up. And drugs are a very effective way to do this. None better in my experience. Within three years it was all gone. All of it.

Today I am clean and sober and working an honest program of recovery with a sponsor. She is helping me to not think more of myself, but not less either. She is a good mirror for me by helping me to identify my negative self-talk and those destructive patterns that are so deeply ingrained.

I just bought a really cool car and was feeling guilty about it. Like I don't deserve a nice ride after all the damage I caused to myself and the people I love. Instead of feeling unworthy, my sponsor is helping me to just be happy with it. Now I say, thanks god for the cool car. lol

Baby steps.

jojo

Dan

Yep. Thanks for this thread Chris.
A personal thought.
I'm living this in a big way at the moment. Big life changes, family circumstances changes, etc, etc... And although I've been involved in the process from the start regarding these changes, I still find inside me a lot of unprocessed anger, guilt, and I dare say, resentment.
So I'm a bit overwhelmed I guess, and I catch myself a lot thinking things like...
Oh well, I'll show them...
They wouldn't care anyway if I did...
I wrecked their lives, I deserve to be miserable...

Not very recovery like thoughts, and a far , far way from healthy for a recovering addict. So I let the program kick in. I reach out when I want to bury myself under the covers. I write, I call my sponsor, I go to meetings. But I still have those thoughts in the back of my mind.
How can I possibly deserve to be happy, in the face of the havoc I've created for my family?
That's the addict talking. Can't have success, now can we? Can't possibly deserve to have a peaceful rest of my life, now could I?
Sooner I own all these emotions, the sooner I'll be ready for the next right action for sobriety. That's what I have to do. So I do it. Anna posted this a while back, and it's become a mantra for me, sort of, when I start entertaining self defeating attitudes.

"My purpose here on Earth is to follow my soul's path, not to satisfy my personality."
Satisfying my imperfect personality failed miserably in the past.
I have no reason to believe it would be different now.
When sabotage is in my mind, I cede the floor to my soul, and take a chance on the unknown.
I have absolutely nothing to lose by remaining sober today.

gratefulgal

Amen, Anna! That is exactly what I was thinking when I read Chris's post. I'm not saying that is the only reason we self-sabotage, but I think it has a lot to do with it. A lot of us are so used to the feeling of failure and utter chaos in our lives that when things actually start to go well, it's very uncomfortable and we don't know how to handle it. We revert to what we know and that's failure and chaos. I couple jobs ago, I worked at a mental health facility and this topic reminded me of a particular client who exemplified this theory. He has extreme anxiety and his life had gobs of chaos in it. He was really not succeeding in life and not really going anywhere. I was his employment specialist and when we would start to make some progress, possibly getting close to landing a job, he would sabatoge himself. I believe he thrived on chaos in his life and did not really know anything else or was not comfortable with anything else. Change happens! A great book to read about change is "Who Moved My Cheese?" - very cute book!

Don W

Hi, There is some grate information on this thread. One thing that has heled me is a course on "Cognitive Theraphy" at the VA Hospital. This has helped me with the change part of recovery. Just reading your posts I can see you caught in some of the same traps as myself. The key word is "Perception". Our peception of an event past or future can be completly different from the facts. Today, while getting my medication at the hospital, I was thinking of our topic. I went up to where I went through their program and go the work sheet on the Cognitive Theraphy I took. I've posted it before and it helped. I've just started my shift so I'll post it later on. It provides some of the answers why we put ourseleves down. Later, Don W

Dunitall

Chrisman

I mentioned in my previous post about having to change the script which we have previously followed.

Not sure if you're currently in AA, but tonight I have spent three hours working on my "step 4" in the 12 step recovery programme. This involves taking a close and fearless look at your past behaviours and making a personal inventory.

Until now, I've recalled events and behaviours about which I feel guilt, shame and self loathing. Boy starting to write them down, it's all just pouring out. There's no way this recovering alcohollic is ever going to sabotage either his recovery, his life or the life of anybody else.

What an eye opener.

Rich

nutz

It is from fear of growth or changes for me.
We do the same thing over and over and expect differntent results.(insanity)
It's usually when things got better or is about to get better.
We sense changes or growth is coming, so we go back to
what familar to us,by sabotaging. We start the cycle of
rebuiling again. As recovering addict or alki, we are masters
at suviving in chaos. Its a nasty habit that didn't happen over night.
I did reconized it when I did my 4th step for the first time.
But the cycle of growth sometimes takes years to develope.
Personally for me it's about 7 years,now
At first it was 2 years then 4 years.

It basically takes us back to lessons or principles in the steps
weather we choice to move forward or not. Being clean and sober
is not about the using anymore but its now about living and growing.
Growth will require that we apply or do the steps again thats in our
current situtation. Growning pain can be real painful sometimes,but
not as painful as sabotaging.
The samething happens to us as it did when we first got clean and
sober when we step up to the next level. We start off new again.
So we must apply or use the tools we've learned
We feel lost becuase it's something new, we meet fears in a different suits
we have to let go of the pass, we have to get out of our comfort zone. We need guidians and courage from others. We have to humble ourselves
and ask for help.
Sponorship will help us. Now we are the sponsor instread of the
sponsee. The same tools is apply to our circumstance as it dose
with our sponsee's circumstance. Being openminded will help
us reconize this.
If we sabotage enough,we become might become
another newcomer again. Same lessons just at a differnt level or growth.

The more things change(circumstance),
The more they stay the same (tools/principles)

For one addict/alki helping another is without parallel.

thebigfisch

I need some info my brothers been drinking uncontrolably, he has stopped today an he is throwing up something terrible, is there anything i can do ? He wont go anywhere for help right now, its amazing that he got to this point and stopped drinking any suggestions would be greatly appreciated !

Dan

Hi.
Here's a link...
http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/withd.../aa000125a.htm
Please read it, and keep a close eye on your brother. Withdrawal from alcohol can be dangerous, even lethal.
Best of luck.

Don W

Like Dan, I'd strongly suggest that he see a doctor. Second, and the hardest thing to tell you, is there isn't much you can do. The only way you can hope to have an impact, is to learn about it. You could try alanon, in fact we have a board here. Anyway, first you have to help yourself. Alcoholism is truly a family problem. Many times our loved ones try to help and we use them. I can only speak for myself. Anybody that tried to help me, I used as my enabler. Until I myself wanted to stop, I used every trick in the book, every weakness someone showed me in kindness. I'm not proud of this but, it's my drinking story. The need for alcohol over rides all feelings of guilt and remorse for using people around it. Like I said, our families, friends, bosses etc. are pulled into our quick sand. I wish you luck. Keep posting though. Sometimes the hardest but, best thing is letting go. Your brother must beat this, I'm sorry, you can't do it for him. Reducing his drinking support might force him to seek help. It worked with me when my wife said no more and not only meant it but, took action to get me out inorder to save her life. Don W

ChrisMan

Thebigfisch,

Yes, get him to a doctor!

Dunitall,
I did a workbook type with my 12 Steps. Every now and then, I will read through my Fourth Step listing, especially if I have bad cravings. And it really works. But, oftentimes, I have a "selective amnesia" when I have cravings and I forget a lot. Hard to believe, but it's true. So glad I wrote all that stuff down (properly "disguised", of course, in case anyone finds it)!

jems girl

I was here over a year ago - made it 30 days without alcohol and thought I would celebrate the accomplishment. Here I am again. Day 2.....thank you for this....I needed it today. A lot of what was written here is what I am feeling.

Thanks everyone.

Dan

Welcome back jems girl!