PrincessB

Hi. I posted this yesterday in the Nar-anon forum, but think it was the wrong place! I'm not a co-dependant, but love someone who is currently in recovery. I have never had an addiction problem and find it difficult to understand what he's going through - can you help?!?

I need help and advice with how I'm feeling about my ex. He has been clean for 2 years now and goes to NA meetings regularly and has been making slow but steady progress through the steps. I really admire him for how far he has come.

Basically, we got together twice and broke up twice already quite dramatically. I still care about him and think about him all the time. And, I really want him back - BUT - will this be bad for me and/or his recovery? Although I do think he's amazing, I don't want to jeapordise his recovery for the sake of a relationship that may fail yet again.

The second time we were together it was much better - he seemed much happier and at peace with the world much more. But his behaviour meant the relationship was making both of us unhappy more often than not. He has a very high-stress job, and when the pressure was getting to him, he would take it out on me and others by making petty criticisms and generally acting with a pent up rage. The bad days outweighing the good days, we made the difficult decision of ending things.

Now I'm wondering if we can work things out - maybe be friends for a while first, then see what happens naturally? At first, he often behaved like a hedgehog - whenever he felt angry or upset he would lash out verbally and/or stop talking to me, as if putting out these protective spines would save him - but I explained that I just wanted to be close to him and comfort him when he hurts, so we got through it. To an extent. I cannot comfort him when we argue over the phone, and I cannot tell when he's doing the hedgehog thing when I'm not with him. And - although I am a very understanding and compassionate person, I cannot keep making the excuses for him to myself and others and eventually my thick skin wears thin.

I really want to get back in touch with him and am willing to do what it takes to make it work to a degree - the big question is i quess - how much does it take?!

Shakur T.

Don't know if I can answer your question. My wife and I have been together for a few years now. She is not in recovery, I am. I work the steps and use my support group to become more patient and tolerant with her and the girls (we have four).

My wife understands that without recovery we would not have the marriage and/or family that we do. She respects my need to sometimes go off and spend time with my sponsor or sponsees. She allows me time for meditation and step work, she accompanies me to conventions, she knows all of the men I sponsor and allows them unencumbered access to me.

So far it's been working. I had about 8 years clean when I met her and we have been together for the last 8 years... :tongue2:

WNY Addict

How much it takes depends on your friend, PrincessB. I'm happy for his sobriety and that he's in the program, but it sounds like he really is making slower progress. Pent up anger, stress and anxiety are things that you work on when you follow The Program.

For us addicts, drugs are an issue, but addiction goes well above and beyond just using a drug. Addiction, as I understand it, effects every facet of our lives.

Relationships can only work if the addict is up for it or strong enough to support it. Generally they suggest a year or more clean time before sometime tries a serious relationship, but that could be several years if the person just "isn't getting it". On the same token, it could be less if someone really is making the most of their recovery.

I may have missed it in your post, but how does he feel about trying it again with your relationship?

PrincessB

Ha ha yes WNY- that minor issue - how does he feel?!! He feels the same way I do - that we want to be together but without driving each other insane! Thankfully he's uncontactable at the moment, so I have time to figure out what's going on in my head before making any hasty mistakes!

Shakur - that's brilliant that you have such a supportive relationship! My worry is that I know couples where one half is a recovering/inactive addict and the other isn't and they appear to lead completely separate lives - is this the only way it works?!? Or is true intimacy possible eventually?

My other worry is that he is a workaholic! Before we split last time we agreed that he would work less and concentrate on the Programme more and in return I would try to deal with his hedgehog behaviour better - but this seemed to materialise into a demand that I just do what he wanted all the time! As I mentioned, I am not a codie and believe there must be give and take in every relationship, so this just didn't work!

Would he feel less like he wanted to control me all the time if we start again just as friends for a while?!?! And - is the control issue an addiction one? If so, will he get over it in time?

Thanks for your wise words!

Shakur T.

We happen to share a lot of other things (besides my recovery). We write/perform poetry together, we pray together, attend school functions and games together....So, recovery has affored ME the peace and serenity to be a husband/father today. My wife has a life. With or without me she would be happy!!

peace

PrincessB

Sorry Shakur! I didn't mean to imply that your relationship was anything less than ideal! :-)

And, I actually believe that recovery and the 12 steps can enlighten you to a degree unavailable to some non-addicts - you know like Dante says - in order to reach paradise one must sometimes experience the depths of hell!

WNY Addict

Well, that's a good thing then if you really want this thing to work, PrincessB.

I always tell people that my recovery comes before my wife, my daughter, my family, my job, et cetera. Now, you may look at that and think it sounds rather cold or selfish, but in actuality it's probably the least selfish way for an addict to think.

When we use, we only have one love in our life..... our drug(s). That's not to say that we don't love all the people that matter, but drugs cloud vision, and an active addict is never showing their true behavior/nature.

In order to have my wife, daughter and family as my top priorities, my recovery has to come before them. I learned that from my sponsor, and I think it's something that any addict can relate to. We're totally self-centered and selfish when we're out using, and placing recovery (and improving one's self) is as tough and selfless an act that an addict can make. When you enter and work real recovery, you have nothing to hide, you lose the stigma of being called an addict, you lay all your cards on the table for people to see.

I think if your friend really works the program, and you guys really find peace and love in your relationship, you can make it through anything

He can't take care of you or your relationship unless he can take care of himself. Always remember that.

Shakur T.

Hi Princess B,
It's ok sis.

Our relationship is ideal for US. But, we go thru stuff like anybody else. We don't agree on everything, we have different thoughts on raising and educating our children, etc. We are really just your average family with all the things that go along with interpersonal relationships.

My point....

Recovery has given me the opportunity to live a pretty normal life. I agree with WNY. My recovery comes first. Because my addiction affected every area of my life, if I were still using my family would suffer. So, the flip side is when I put my recovery first, my family benefits.

If you guys can remember to, unselfishly, put recovery first, you have the opportunity to live a happy, healthy and productive life.

Love is a funny thing. Unconditional love is even funnier. I have found that love of self is important in helping me to love others. Without loving me unconditionally, I doubt that I could give/recieve love to others.

Wishing you all the best this new way of life has to offer. Your friend, shakur

Paulie

Princessb -

First I had to read your thread because anything title with the word 'normal' in it catches my interest. When I first got clean I thought that was what I wanted, a normal relationship. The longer I have been blessed to stay clean the more the definition of normal means different things to me.

I believe every relationship is different, because we are all different people, addict or non addict. What is normal for me may not be normal for you.

For example it is not normal for me to put up with my husband being a 'hedgehog' i don't care how much clean time he has. I am not saying my husband is perfect, heck we both have good and bad days. but today we can say to each other that it is not okay to speak that way to me or whatever the situation is.

The bottom line for me what you said about being friends first. I don't care if a person is an addict or not, in my opinion if you are not friends in your relationship you have no chance of making it. That is just my opinion.

My husband and I are both addicts in recovery, that makes us different than you and the man you are talking about. but as was already said here, my recovery comes first before my husband before anyone or anything because without that I have nothing else. Without that I have no respect for myself and without respecting myself I cannot respect someone else, and that is where it all starts for me, with respect.

This post is just my opinion, take it or leave it. But no matter what I wish you the best and I wish your blessings in recovery.

godsonmyside

Being friends has to come first for me as well. I have been with my wife 12 years married 10, she has seen me at every extremem of my recovery and my disease is action. We struggle here and there and it is rough. We have both changed since we first met, basically we've grown up some.
We stuggle with what we want from each other at times and have had to reset our boundries. We have 2 wonderful kids and life is happening and we have to move with it. If we can not, then we have to change it. 100% from both of us is what usually works best, and sometimes we fall far from the tree, but we help each other the best we can.
I wish you luck with your venture to find what you need.
Todd J.

Marisa

Hi I'm new here, and looking for some direction my boyfriend of 3 years is struggling with drug addiction. He was sober for 14 months and relapsed just two days ago. He has a 15 year old son, and I have a 19 year old daughter and we all live together and have become a family. We'd been talking about getting married. The past 14 months was great, there was peace, stability, my boyfriend was attending meetings, then about two weeks ago he quit his job and then stopped going to meetings. And then the relapse.. I'm angry/hurt/scared and I don't know how to handle this. He tells me that I'm over reacting and I shouldn't be so upset, that he knows what he needs to do, it was "just a relapse". He didn't want to talk to me so he left to stay at his mom's so I'm left with our kids trying to keep some normalcy, but again I'm confused. Should I just leave him be to figurre it out? Do I talk to him about this, give him ultimatums?? But what's my role in this because I realize that in the end he's got to make his choices, but I don't want to just sit idle either. UGH!! I'm so confused, any input would really be appreciated.

PrincessB

Hey Marisa.

I'm really sorry to hear about your situation - although I am pretty new to this, one thing I learnt through being with my ex is that you cannot feel responsible for anothers' actions nor can you allow them to make you feel you can/should do something to fix them - as someone told me - you did not cause it, cannot control it, and cannot cure it - it's up to him to do that for himself. So, in my humble opinion ultimatums would be a mistake if you want to keep what you have together.

Also, I often found that he needed some space to come to terms with his feelings and reactions and then would come back to me far more sane than if I had pushed him for anwers and explanations. Maybe him being away for a while will help both of you? I posted this thread in Nar-Anon as well and had some really good feedback - check out http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ad.php?t=46163 and the 'stickies' at the top of the Nar-Anon forum and you may find some answers amongst all the questions!

Good luck!

Marisa

Thanks for the input, I really appreciate it. I have to admit having my boyfriend gone has given me a little bit a peace, even though I'm way sad. He keeps calling me and trying to have conversations with me like everythings ok but I know he's still using, so I've started avoiding his calls until I get my head right (good thing for caller id!). I really want this to work between us, but right now I'm so confused I can't think straight. So here's a question.... The relationships I've had in my life, my boyfriend, and my ex, (my daughter's dad) have been with guys with addiction, but I'm not a user. Do you think there's something I need to be working on within myself? I don't know like I said my head's just messed up right now... You all are great by the way...this site is beautiful.

Shakur T.

Boy, can I identify!! It seems that I kept picking the same woman, just with a different name and a different face...

And I kept getting the same results. Nothing changed until I did.

Sugar Glider Gal

Pricess I'm not saying you are co-dependant so please don't take this wrong....but I have learned from experience that many of us have just as much of a hard time admitting that we are or somewhat are "co-dependant" in ways. Co-dep doesn't just relate to being inlvolved with someone who is using drugs or in some way allowing them to continue using. It goes much deeper that that and can even relate to relationships or individuals where there is no drug use at all in the picture. When J was using I had no idea, but when I found out, I laid the boundry or "get help now or I leave" end of story...I had to do what I had to do to protect myself..from there is was up to him to do what he chose to do. By doing this I felt I was not being co-dep in any way since I had no idea of what he was doing in the beginning. But later through counsling I realized that there were little things I was doing that made me co-dependant. It is normal to cahgne or give in etc to little things to please another, but when we find oursleves giving in more often or giving in to things we really feel differently about just because we want to satisfy or make peace etc for another we are in a sense being co-dep as we are putting anothers constant feelings ahead of our own. Wether or not you are co-dep when you have time read up on it somemore as it is interesting to find out more of what co-dependancy means. Even if we ourselves are not codies there is almost always someone in our lives that is, and by knowing more about it we can be a better suppout to them.

Relationship wise,,,,,that is always a tough one. And can even be more so when one or both people are addicts or recoverying addicts. I think first and foremost and addict needs to concentrate on thier recovery. I also think that there are things that we as "loved ones" and/or codies should work and concentrate on as well. In myopinion and experience I think anyone that chooses to be in a relationship with a recovery addict should do all they can to study about addiction and recovery. After all addiction and recovery IS a part of the person we love, and for a relationship to work we need to know certain depths of a person. Recovery can bring about many changes, and those changes can be constant or even changes out of the blue...what ever is needed for them to retain thier sobriety. We as the loved ones need to understand what those could or will be in order to be able to deal with them as they come. Just as the recoverying addict needs to be able to see the changes happening within themselves and do what is needed to make sure those are positive changes for themselves, thier recovery and thier relationships.

Can a recoverying addict and a non-user have a normal relationship...hmmm...first of all what is "normal"?? Can they have a healthy and happy relationship?....yes.
But I believe just as in any relationship it takes two stong individulas, maybe even stonger then normal when one is a recovering addict. In relationships where one is a recovering addict there are going to be things that they face that relationships with 2 non -users might not have to face. Each person needs to look after thier own needs but also understand the needs of the other.

J and I have been together for over 4 1/2 years, he unknown to me used off and on in the beginning but has been clean now for 2+years. In may ways our relationship is back to being the way it was, but in many ways it is different. I have to learn to understand and accept that even when I might want him home with us or something is going on that I want him to attend with me...he must for himself attend his meetings that night. He needs to understand that maybe today something set me off and made me remember all the bad things that happened in the past etc and be more patient or supportive of me that day. We both have had to learn that sometimes when someone has a bad day and the "words or fire" come out that it is time to take a step back and let the fire burn down rather then "feed" it.

What has helped J and I more then anything is something a lot of people probably don't agree with, but for us it was the best thing we ever did for oursleves individually and as a couple. When J first got into treatment they allowed me to come as a "concerned loved one" so I attended his meetings with him. All but one, as I wanted him to go alone to see if he would prefer it that way. We attended his 3 1/2 months of treatment together and there we learned a lot, that not only helped him in his recovery, me in mine, both of us to understand each other, but also things that we could utilize to help ourselves become better people and have a stonger relationship. We now go to meetings seperatley but still share a lot of what we learn at our meetings together. If your friend goes to meetings maybe if he doesn't mine one of these days you can attend with him, or find a meeting of your own to go to where they might be able to offer things that could help.

What ever issues you both need to work through I hope that they work out well for both of you and that eventually they will work out in a way that allows you to both be together happily.

Moostang Rita

PrincessB

Thank you Moostang! And Everyone!

I think you are all very wise and appreciate your help very much. He did ask me if I wanted to go to an NA meeting with him once, but I thought that the other people there would be put off by my presence... Now I wish that I had gone - maybe when he gets back we can go together? I'll ask him... Meanwhile, there is a CODA meeting near me that I plan to attend in the new year, so I'll see where that leads too - I believe that we can never stop improving ourselves and am willing to learn about myself and my downfalls more!

I totally understand that he needs to put his recovery first - in fact that was what I said to him towards the end - that I could only see it working between us when he focused on working the program and going to meetings regularly because I really saw the difference in him when he started to treat work as his top priority - but how do you get them to understand that? I don't think you can - I think he needs to figure it out for himself!

I did go to some NA stuff and was amazed at how people can be so charitable and selfless - the whole organisation is based on people helping others to help themselves and I think it is fantastic! While the whole world seems to be worrying about how much money they make and what car they drive, there is this amazing pocket of people willing to go out of thier way to help others as best they can! It's not only that "whatever doesn't kill us makes us stronger" - but it helps make others stronger too! Thank you again for all your support! I hope this advice is relevant to others and that everyone here finds peace in their lives!

servicejunkie

My worry is that I know couples where one half is a recovering/inactive addict and the other isn't and they appear to lead completely separate lives - is this the only way it works?!?

To be honest with you, that is exactly the way it eventually became for me and my now x-wife. I have sponsored/do sponsor 5 guys in NA who are married and most of them experience the same thing. I do however know a few couples who have stayed together for many years with one partner getting into recovery, but in just about ALL of those few couples the spouse is in alanon or naranon. The steps definately work for anyone.

Sugar Glider Gal

servicejunkie..I have to say that I agree with you about meetings and steps help and do work for everyone. But of course they have to be willing to work those steps they don't just happen automatically on thie own like some people sometimes falsely believe.

I have no problem admitting that if I had NOT gone to meetings with J and/or my own naranon meetings that I highly doubt he and I's relationship would have made it. We had to both learn how to "let go" of many things which is something hard for a lot of recoverying addicts and the "loved ones" on the other end of things to do. We also had to learn to "truely understand" to the best of our abilities what the other has gone through and will still be going through during recovery and possably/most likely the rest of thier lives in many ways. I think in my case that attending J's initial treatment meetings helped me as much as my own naranon meetings did, if not more in some ways. Naranon helped me to deal with my own side of things, and allowed me to vent out much of my hurt without it inhibiting J's recovery, but attending meetings with him also allowed me to better understand what he is going through and allowed an enviroment that both he and I could speak to one another about our feelings without it becoming a "finer pointing blaming session". That was very important to me especially because unlike a lot of recoverying addicts he DID NOT blame me or anyone else for his using, he took full responsability of his own actions right from the start, however I in the beginning sadly admit that I did blame him for a lot of the hurt I felt, as yes a lot was the fault of his actions and using, but through the meetings I also learned that a lot of what he did was because of the hold addiction had on him, and by better understanding that I was better able to let go and forgive.

I believe that being able to truely whole heartedly to "let go" and "to forgive" are very important and needed for BOTH a recovery addict and a loved one to do in order to both heal individually and as a couple.

J and I do not lead seperate lives, about the only way we are truely seperate is when he attends his meetings and I attend mine. Just about everything else we do is done together or in someway for each other ( or our family, I have three daughters in which is looks at as his own). When he looked for new hobbies etc to keep him busy and happy and help him stay clean, I participated in those activities, just as he does in some of the things I like to do. I think in any relationship each other should try to take interest in some of the things the other person enjoys. Just like for example, J rides dirtbikes and I don't ride anymore but to be part of that, I am a photographer so on some of his bike trips I come along and do photoshoots. It allows us to be able to enjoy the things we each like while still being able to do them together.

It is sad to see when relationships don't make it. I know that the future is something I and everyone else have no control over, so for today I am thankful that J and I are both strong in our own seperate recoveries and strong as a couple. I hope that more couples having to face one/both parties in recovery will relaize how very much meetings do help and that statistics will change and more couple will come out of things not only staying together but being stronger individually and together because of it.

Shakur T.

peace,
maybe it was because i had some years clean and working the program as diligently as possible. maybe it was because we had alot of things in common like making our spiritual develoment the main priority in our lives. maybe it's because we share in MY recovery process. maybe it's because we learned to love ourselves before we grew in love together...

i don't know and i am not trying to figure it out. i am an addict and my wife has never used drugs. we have a happy, peaceful life. my wife and children think i am the greatest guy in the world!

on our last wedding anniversary, i went to a meeting because an addict asked me to come and share. i explained it to my wife and she was fine with it. she understands that i cannot be the man i am without the recovery process. conversley, i make time for her and the children. we go to flea markets, play board games, go camping, fishing, etc. last week, i took the afternoon off and took my wife to see the movie, "ray," just her and i. whenever i am invited to share at a convention, i take my wife with me. it's like a mini vacation for us. she loves the meetings and i love having her with me.

i am not the one to say what will work or not work for anyone else. i am just sharing OUR experience, strength and hope. i pray that everyone find the happiness they are looking for. i know that it's not found in marriage, but brought into the marriage. our thing works for us and we are cool with it.

peace...

Gabe

Shak, have I told you lately how much I love what you post?
You are a gem my friend.