don't feel worth saving
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don't feel worth saving
I'm not really sure what I'm looking for by posting here, it's been a long time since I posted on this site. I guess just to see if anyone recognises this feeling?
I have suffered with anxiety and depression since I was a child and it just seems to get worse and worse, I started self-medicating with alcohol in my teens and that spiralled too. I'm 24 now and so depressed that I barely leave the house or do anything and if I do go out, I will more than likely have a panic attack. The only respite I get from this is when I drink. But over the past few years, I have started to do more and more regrettable things whilst drunk, I hate myself so much for the people I have let sleep with me and I hate that all my old friends probably know how much of a mess I am. I feel like I will never be able to stop thinking about my regrets.
The logical thing would be to get sober but whats the point when I have literally no quality of life when sober anyway? Time moves so slowly when you're depressed, it's unbearable and the only way I know how to break it up is by drinking. But obviously this leads to panic attacks and horrific anxiety the next day. It's just endless.
I have suffered with anxiety and depression since I was a child and it just seems to get worse and worse, I started self-medicating with alcohol in my teens and that spiralled too. I'm 24 now and so depressed that I barely leave the house or do anything and if I do go out, I will more than likely have a panic attack. The only respite I get from this is when I drink. But over the past few years, I have started to do more and more regrettable things whilst drunk, I hate myself so much for the people I have let sleep with me and I hate that all my old friends probably know how much of a mess I am. I feel like I will never be able to stop thinking about my regrets.
The logical thing would be to get sober but whats the point when I have literally no quality of life when sober anyway? Time moves so slowly when you're depressed, it's unbearable and the only way I know how to break it up is by drinking. But obviously this leads to panic attacks and horrific anxiety the next day. It's just endless.
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Originally Posted by Gilmer 
Please see a psychiatrist. A psychiatrist made all the difference for me. Some say any doctor will do--but IMHO you sound like you're in pretty bad shape, and should have specialized care.
Last edited by waterlines; 03-24-2015 at 10:53 AM. Reason: changed "doctors" to "psychiatrists" to specify
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Hi,
You might want to read my thread about needing to be diligent to find happiness, http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...happiness.html I understand how you feel, as I have been depressed most of my life. For me, cocaine, which I used many years ago and then more recently, pain pills, were the only substances that alleviated my depression.
However, I do know one thing, alcohol is a depressant, and only makes depression worse. Then, as it leaves our bodies, it makes the anxiety and panic kick in. Same with cocaine and opiates.. as I would come down from them, my depression and anxiety would kick in stronger than ever. Which is why I have been clean from pain pills for 2 years, and clean from cocaine for 15 years.
I also know that antidepressants lose their effectiveness when combined with alcohol. When was the last time you were sober for any length of time? Oh, and then, when we quit drinking or using, we don't feel better right away. We might even feel a bit worse, as our brains and bodies heal themselves from the damage we did through the abuse of substances. However, if we stay clean and sober, we do begin to heal and we begin to feel better. You sound like you are fairly "young", compared to me, so you would probably heal a lot faster. You are caught in a downward spiral, and I think to break the cycle and begin to get out of your rut, getting sober seems to be you best bet.
I am thinking you come back here to SR because a part of you knows that feeling better in the long run starts with being clean and sober. For me, I got so used to a quick fix and immediate gratification that I now have trouble being happy because now I have to do some work, i.e. self care, in order to feel happy. It sounds like your work might be to begin by putting the bottle down, and re-connecting here at SR.
You might want to read my thread about needing to be diligent to find happiness, http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...happiness.html I understand how you feel, as I have been depressed most of my life. For me, cocaine, which I used many years ago and then more recently, pain pills, were the only substances that alleviated my depression.
However, I do know one thing, alcohol is a depressant, and only makes depression worse. Then, as it leaves our bodies, it makes the anxiety and panic kick in. Same with cocaine and opiates.. as I would come down from them, my depression and anxiety would kick in stronger than ever. Which is why I have been clean from pain pills for 2 years, and clean from cocaine for 15 years.
I also know that antidepressants lose their effectiveness when combined with alcohol. When was the last time you were sober for any length of time? Oh, and then, when we quit drinking or using, we don't feel better right away. We might even feel a bit worse, as our brains and bodies heal themselves from the damage we did through the abuse of substances. However, if we stay clean and sober, we do begin to heal and we begin to feel better. You sound like you are fairly "young", compared to me, so you would probably heal a lot faster. You are caught in a downward spiral, and I think to break the cycle and begin to get out of your rut, getting sober seems to be you best bet.
I am thinking you come back here to SR because a part of you knows that feeling better in the long run starts with being clean and sober. For me, I got so used to a quick fix and immediate gratification that I now have trouble being happy because now I have to do some work, i.e. self care, in order to feel happy. It sounds like your work might be to begin by putting the bottle down, and re-connecting here at SR.
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Waterlines,
I'm so sorry that you are suffering.
I was drinking depressed for a number of years. I'm sober now and currently not taking any anti-depressants. However, the depression is still there, although not as bad as it was while I was drinking. Like 1Day said, it takes time to get to a point of relative equilibrium. I do still have days where I struggle to just get dressed and leave the house. I struggle with anxiety over social situations too (even here on SR!). And, like you I have wondered at times, what is the point of being sober, if I'm going to continue to miserable?
But I think the realization that I've had over the last several months, is that there is no silver bullet that will "Fix" the depression. I've realized that I really have to take a holistic approach. I did some counseling late last year, and am about to start that back up again. And I'm also considering the possibility of trying anti-depressants again. But there are a number of simple, incremental and practical things that I can do that help improve my overall well-being.
And you can too.
Of course, simple doesn't always mean easy.
First, you need to quit drinking; it really just makes the depression worse. But, I think you know that. You've come back here, right?
Second, some of those simple things I mentioned. This is just a partial list. I've seen lots of other suggestions on the site by others as well. I didn't start all of these at once. Just slowly started to integrate them into my life.
Journaling. However you want to do it, in a notebook, on a computer. Something private where you can just do a "brain dump" of all the stuff bugging you. Like during those sober days where time is dragging by.
Cut out as much sugar our of diet as you can. Start slow, just pick one thing to get rid of (maybe sodas if you drink them, even the diet kind). In the early days, when I was withdrawing I drank a lot of fruit\protein smoothies. They're full of "good" sugars to help with the withdrawal symptoms, but the sugar comes with lots of vitamins and minerals. There are good ones you can buy at the store, or you can blend your own at home a lot cheaper.
Exercise. Too start with all I did was try to get out and walk a few times a week. Then a couple months in I started meditating and doing some gentle yoga.
No doubt, I still have a lot of work to do. There's certainly room for improvement. I'm starting to try to get back into one or two old hobbies, and I need to work on my social anxiety issues and try to make more friends. But in spite of that, I still would not want to go back to where I was 5 months ago. I am better off now, and I have hope that I will continue to get better.
I hope you'll give it another go.
I'm so sorry that you are suffering.
I was drinking depressed for a number of years. I'm sober now and currently not taking any anti-depressants. However, the depression is still there, although not as bad as it was while I was drinking. Like 1Day said, it takes time to get to a point of relative equilibrium. I do still have days where I struggle to just get dressed and leave the house. I struggle with anxiety over social situations too (even here on SR!). And, like you I have wondered at times, what is the point of being sober, if I'm going to continue to miserable?
But I think the realization that I've had over the last several months, is that there is no silver bullet that will "Fix" the depression. I've realized that I really have to take a holistic approach. I did some counseling late last year, and am about to start that back up again. And I'm also considering the possibility of trying anti-depressants again. But there are a number of simple, incremental and practical things that I can do that help improve my overall well-being.
And you can too.
Of course, simple doesn't always mean easy. First, you need to quit drinking; it really just makes the depression worse. But, I think you know that. You've come back here, right?
Second, some of those simple things I mentioned. This is just a partial list. I've seen lots of other suggestions on the site by others as well. I didn't start all of these at once. Just slowly started to integrate them into my life.
Journaling. However you want to do it, in a notebook, on a computer. Something private where you can just do a "brain dump" of all the stuff bugging you. Like during those sober days where time is dragging by.
Cut out as much sugar our of diet as you can. Start slow, just pick one thing to get rid of (maybe sodas if you drink them, even the diet kind). In the early days, when I was withdrawing I drank a lot of fruit\protein smoothies. They're full of "good" sugars to help with the withdrawal symptoms, but the sugar comes with lots of vitamins and minerals. There are good ones you can buy at the store, or you can blend your own at home a lot cheaper.
Exercise. Too start with all I did was try to get out and walk a few times a week. Then a couple months in I started meditating and doing some gentle yoga.
No doubt, I still have a lot of work to do. There's certainly room for improvement. I'm starting to try to get back into one or two old hobbies, and I need to work on my social anxiety issues and try to make more friends. But in spite of that, I still would not want to go back to where I was 5 months ago. I am better off now, and I have hope that I will continue to get better.
I hope you'll give it another go.
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Midwest
Posts: 419
Jerri did a great little post. Lots of good stuff in there. You have to go at it with lots of stuff. I mean stuff besides self-medicating. Holistic. Yeah. Good food, exercise, journaling, meditation.
I have personal experience with depression and alcoholism. Personal experience.
I don't know where I would be without meditation. It's like the number one thing to me. Depression is our minds running away with us and taking us to a dark place. Meditation is about our minds not running away with us. To me that mental control is everything.
It's not easy to learn to do. It takes patience, practice and it takes time. But what do we have but time? And it doesn't involve those dangerous drugs, even the prescribed ones. I know the doctors are just trying to help, but I just wonder, if we would only do the practical things, like Jerri is talking about, how many of us wouldn't feel we had to go to the doctor-prescribed chemicals for help in the first place.
I wish more doctors would prescribe things like meditation and yoga. Those things can be so-o-o-o beneficial. And they are free and clean.
I wish you the best, waterlines.
I have personal experience with depression and alcoholism. Personal experience.
I don't know where I would be without meditation. It's like the number one thing to me. Depression is our minds running away with us and taking us to a dark place. Meditation is about our minds not running away with us. To me that mental control is everything.
It's not easy to learn to do. It takes patience, practice and it takes time. But what do we have but time? And it doesn't involve those dangerous drugs, even the prescribed ones. I know the doctors are just trying to help, but I just wonder, if we would only do the practical things, like Jerri is talking about, how many of us wouldn't feel we had to go to the doctor-prescribed chemicals for help in the first place.
I wish more doctors would prescribe things like meditation and yoga. Those things can be so-o-o-o beneficial. And they are free and clean.
I wish you the best, waterlines.
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thanks so much for the replies and thanks for the link to your thread 1dayatatyme, i definitely identified with that. so hard to turn away from the quick fix when you know if you weren't ill you wouldn't need it in the first place and the shame that follows. I was last sober some time last year for about 5/6 weeks, I was severely depressed the whole time and eventually gave in and went back to drinking just so I could have some social interaction.
jerri11, thanks for the advice. I have definitely been playing with the idea of quitting again, not sure if I am ready yet but i appreciate the support here so much anyway. I also suffer with social anxiety, that has got way worse over the years. How do you deal with the boredom/isolation if you feel to anxious to socialise?
seren - really appreciate it
addictguy, i'm really interested in yoga and meditation, currently trying to get through a book on mindfulness, I guess it's just hard to ignore the depression telling you how pointless it all is. And sadly i recently tried to join a yoga class but had a panic attack on the way to the first one and bailed. Guess I'll have to do it off youtube at home!
jerri11, thanks for the advice. I have definitely been playing with the idea of quitting again, not sure if I am ready yet but i appreciate the support here so much anyway. I also suffer with social anxiety, that has got way worse over the years. How do you deal with the boredom/isolation if you feel to anxious to socialise?
seren - really appreciate it
addictguy, i'm really interested in yoga and meditation, currently trying to get through a book on mindfulness, I guess it's just hard to ignore the depression telling you how pointless it all is. And sadly i recently tried to join a yoga class but had a panic attack on the way to the first one and bailed. Guess I'll have to do it off youtube at home!
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Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 425
I don’t have panic attacks per say, but there are a number of social situations that just thinking about going to them sends me into a mental tailspin. Generally if I can find an excuse to skip it, I usually will. If it’s something I have to go to, then I’m an agitated mess in the days\hours leading up to it. I have to have all the details. I have to plan it out. I can’t be late. Ambiguity about a social situation drives me crazy. And it drives my husband crazy that I’m this way. Poor guy. However, once I’m actually there (and resigned to my fate), the anxiety dies down somewhat; but I’m still on edge, and by the time I get home I’m exhausted. It’s weird. I’m able to be sociable and carry on a conversation, but I’m always completely on guard and analyzing\second guessing every word that comes out of my mouth. I doubt most people even realize how much energy I expend just to have idle chit-chat at a party.
For so long I’ve just accepted my anxiety about social situations as the status quo. “It’s just how I am.” I used alcohol to dampen the anxiety and loosen up a bit; and at home to numb the pain of being isolated and lonely. I work full time from home, and I spend a lot of time on the phone. That is easier for me, than face to face. But still by the end of the day, I’m exhausted and there’s little energy left for my family, much less other people.
I even have some minor anxiety issues related to posting here on SR and jumping into discussions. I write a lot of my posts out first in a word document, then review, revise, rinse, repeat. I’m doing that with this one.
So them there in a large nutshell are my issues.
I know it’s not the same as what you are experiencing, and I am so sorry to hear about the panic attack on the way to yoga. That must have been very discouraging for you.
I got very lucky and found a really wonderful yoga instructor close to home. The class is very small and casual (it’s actually held in a hair salon on the day that it’s closed). I don’t know if I could have managed a larger class at a gym. Otherwise the rest of the week when I do Yoga I follow along with YouTube videos. Have you tried calling ahead and asking to speak to the instructor first? I’m not saying that you have to explain all about the anxiety issues, but talk on the phone first and let her know what you’re looking for in a class. Maybe ask for something small, casual, etc. Ask her to describe the setting and what a regular class is like. Can you arrive early? How early? Things like that. If it doesn’t sound like a good fit, ask if she can possibly recommend another instructor or class that might be a better fit. It might be good to find one that includes 30 minutes or so of meditation first (that’s what I’ve got). The other thing I might suggest is seeing if there is someone that you know that might be interested in going with you at least the first few times (or maybe more!). Just a few thoughts.
For me, the social issues are a work in progress. Right now, SR, the once-a-week yoga class and a very occasional dinner with a friend of mine are the only social outlets I have outside of work and my immediate family. I’ve tried a couple of other things with mixed results, but so far Yoga and SR are the only new things that have stuck.
Writing in my journal has really helped me whenever I'm struggling with this or other issues. It acts as a release value. It doesn't matter what it is -- anxiety, loneliness, or frustration with my job or my family -- I write it down, and somehow that releases some of the pressure and I start to feel a little bit better. What I write doesn't have to be pretty or grammatically correct. My journal is an English teacher's worst nightmare. But that's ok. No one else will ever read it.
Just remember there’s always hope. You can do this.
For so long I’ve just accepted my anxiety about social situations as the status quo. “It’s just how I am.” I used alcohol to dampen the anxiety and loosen up a bit; and at home to numb the pain of being isolated and lonely. I work full time from home, and I spend a lot of time on the phone. That is easier for me, than face to face. But still by the end of the day, I’m exhausted and there’s little energy left for my family, much less other people.
I even have some minor anxiety issues related to posting here on SR and jumping into discussions. I write a lot of my posts out first in a word document, then review, revise, rinse, repeat. I’m doing that with this one.
So them there in a large nutshell are my issues.
I know it’s not the same as what you are experiencing, and I am so sorry to hear about the panic attack on the way to yoga. That must have been very discouraging for you.
I got very lucky and found a really wonderful yoga instructor close to home. The class is very small and casual (it’s actually held in a hair salon on the day that it’s closed). I don’t know if I could have managed a larger class at a gym. Otherwise the rest of the week when I do Yoga I follow along with YouTube videos. Have you tried calling ahead and asking to speak to the instructor first? I’m not saying that you have to explain all about the anxiety issues, but talk on the phone first and let her know what you’re looking for in a class. Maybe ask for something small, casual, etc. Ask her to describe the setting and what a regular class is like. Can you arrive early? How early? Things like that. If it doesn’t sound like a good fit, ask if she can possibly recommend another instructor or class that might be a better fit. It might be good to find one that includes 30 minutes or so of meditation first (that’s what I’ve got). The other thing I might suggest is seeing if there is someone that you know that might be interested in going with you at least the first few times (or maybe more!). Just a few thoughts.
For me, the social issues are a work in progress. Right now, SR, the once-a-week yoga class and a very occasional dinner with a friend of mine are the only social outlets I have outside of work and my immediate family. I’ve tried a couple of other things with mixed results, but so far Yoga and SR are the only new things that have stuck.
Writing in my journal has really helped me whenever I'm struggling with this or other issues. It acts as a release value. It doesn't matter what it is -- anxiety, loneliness, or frustration with my job or my family -- I write it down, and somehow that releases some of the pressure and I start to feel a little bit better. What I write doesn't have to be pretty or grammatically correct. My journal is an English teacher's worst nightmare. But that's ok. No one else will ever read it.
Just remember there’s always hope. You can do this.
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,420
Originally Posted by waterlines
thanks so much for the replies and thanks for the link to your thread 1dayatatyme, i definitely identified with that. so hard to turn away from the quick fix when you know if you weren't ill you wouldn't need it in the first place and the shame that follows.
I will be very honest, one of the reason I don't do yoga anymore is that I was told that I do not do the poses correctly. I thought I was doing them right. However, I think I have disconnected my brain from body a long time ago, so it affects how I experience myself. Does that make sense? I think that is why I don't even do yoga at home, I feel "what's the use?" I am probably not doing it right anyway. I guess if I was really determined to do yoga, I would have mirrors where I practice it in my house, and perhaps even invest in one or two private lessons with a gentle yoga instructor so that she could help me without shaming me.
As for socializing, I find that I am comfortable here on SR, with certain people and certain forums/threads. It took me a while to find my "homes" here, but I am now comfortable, and SR meets my needs. I also have joined several Meet-ups in order to begin to socialize with others in my area, but the experiences were ho-hum, and I did have one shaming interaction that also kind of soured me. I did meet an instant friend at one very bad Meet-up... we both shared the same negative feelings about the event, and after that, we began to walk together once a week and have a lot in common.
As for feeling severely depressed at 5/6 weeks sober, I felt depressed for the first year when off of cocaine. It was horrible. I did learn about PAWS in the past several years, (Post Acute Withdrawal Symptom) and that really validated my feelings, which, miraculously helped my depression lessen. (There is a lot of information on the internet about PAWS).
Some people on SR don't "believe" in PAWS, however, I certainly do, as I have experienced it, and so have many people I know who are in recovery.
I believe that if we are predisposed to depression or anxiety, we are going to have more problems with PAWS than someone who is "normal".
I remember being at a 12 step meeting during my first year clean from cocaine, and after I shared, a person came up and said that for him, the first year sucked. That life wasn't rainbows and unicorns after getting sober, but that at least he had hope, and was determined not to relapse. His honesty really helped me get through. The healing process was so slow, but looking back I see that I did feel better slowly. However, I did not plan to relapse when I got pain pills after my auto accident... I just knew I had to work and my neck and back hurt badly. The rest is history.
I am at the point in my life where I am satisfied with hanging out on SR as my main form of socialization. I also have a wonderful family, so I hang out with them as well. I am going to attend several other meet-ups, but if I get too anxious or depressed beforehand, I will not force myself to go.
Being clean and sober, for me is so much better than using.
Stick around, waterlines, and see if you find a thread or two where you are comfortable and feel accepted.
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Join Date: Jan 2015
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waterlines,
I see you looking into mindfulness and I am like, alright. And you mentioned its hard to ignore the depressive voice saying such and such. The beauty of it is that you are not supposed to ignore the "bad thought". You are "supposed" to be aware of it, acknowledge its presence, and then let it go. And then tell yourself to relax. That is how you fight. You fight by letting go.
It's a game. And then it will come back, because being in charge and ever-present is what it is used to, and then you do your new thing which is say, "There" (acknowledging it), then to tell yourself, as I tell myself, "Let that go and just relax." So, just think instead of having to wrestle with a thing you can't even get your hands on anyway, you don't burn energy or use up focus better used for other things than to facing it down, or groveling in its presence or any of that. You just acknowledge it, let it go and relax.
I can't tell you how many times in a day's time I will have some negative thought, often a repeating thought, force its way into my consciousness. That part just is. But what does not have to be is the accepting it, or the dwelling on it, or the acting on it.
You can learn to just let it go. It comes on strong and the usual thing is to get emotionally all involved with how beat up you are feeling and how you have so little fight left and all of that depressing stuff. Don't give it energy. Just be aware and learn to do that, and then dismiss it. That way you don't have to fight it. Water off a duck's back, and then you go back to just focusing on your breathing or just letting your mind drift through other "not bad" things. Over and over. It so works that it is the one thing, there are other things, but if I had to pick one, I would say meditation -- mindfulness is the one reason I am not insane.
You will find with persistence that the dark voices will lose energy and will not come around to bother you as often too. They will realize they don't have a comfy place with you anymore. You aren't as fun to harass. And that also so much depends on how much you practice, but it is kind of a-sky's-the-limit kind of thing. Really. How much peace of mind would you like?
The experts in the scientific community say it's also great for substance abuse problems. And they say, the more you need it, you more you practice. Cool, huh?
Any questions on that, let me know. I do it everyday. Yesterday, like an hour, and that's pretty typical for me. How could I not love doing a thing that can keep the beasts of the forest at bay?
AG
I see you looking into mindfulness and I am like, alright. And you mentioned its hard to ignore the depressive voice saying such and such. The beauty of it is that you are not supposed to ignore the "bad thought". You are "supposed" to be aware of it, acknowledge its presence, and then let it go. And then tell yourself to relax. That is how you fight. You fight by letting go.
It's a game. And then it will come back, because being in charge and ever-present is what it is used to, and then you do your new thing which is say, "There" (acknowledging it), then to tell yourself, as I tell myself, "Let that go and just relax." So, just think instead of having to wrestle with a thing you can't even get your hands on anyway, you don't burn energy or use up focus better used for other things than to facing it down, or groveling in its presence or any of that. You just acknowledge it, let it go and relax.
I can't tell you how many times in a day's time I will have some negative thought, often a repeating thought, force its way into my consciousness. That part just is. But what does not have to be is the accepting it, or the dwelling on it, or the acting on it.
You can learn to just let it go. It comes on strong and the usual thing is to get emotionally all involved with how beat up you are feeling and how you have so little fight left and all of that depressing stuff. Don't give it energy. Just be aware and learn to do that, and then dismiss it. That way you don't have to fight it. Water off a duck's back, and then you go back to just focusing on your breathing or just letting your mind drift through other "not bad" things. Over and over. It so works that it is the one thing, there are other things, but if I had to pick one, I would say meditation -- mindfulness is the one reason I am not insane.
You will find with persistence that the dark voices will lose energy and will not come around to bother you as often too. They will realize they don't have a comfy place with you anymore. You aren't as fun to harass. And that also so much depends on how much you practice, but it is kind of a-sky's-the-limit kind of thing. Really. How much peace of mind would you like?
The experts in the scientific community say it's also great for substance abuse problems. And they say, the more you need it, you more you practice. Cool, huh?
Any questions on that, let me know. I do it everyday. Yesterday, like an hour, and that's pretty typical for me. How could I not love doing a thing that can keep the beasts of the forest at bay?
AG
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Join Date: Jul 2013
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Posts: 34
Originally Posted by AddictGuy
We pour ourselves out and where's waterlines?
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Join Date: Jul 2013
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Posts: 34
jerri11 - I completely understand how you feel with the exhaustion of social situations. I have realised that I don't just use alcohol to calm me down, I use it to give me energy because otherwise the thought of talking with someone all night seems so draining.
I also work from home (very grateful for that!), I don't spend too much time on the phone but I agree, it's easier than having to be in the company of people all day.
I think I have a strange kind of social anxiety because I actually find it easier being in the company of strangers because if I have a panic attack and run away from a situation, I never have to see them again. I was actually meeting a friend for the yoga class and I felt so guilty to have let her down and more than anything, embarrassed.
This links into what 1dayatatyme said about shame, I think I have always been massively ashamed of having panic attacks and anxiety because I liked to think they didn't fit with my personality, I used to be very outgoing and confident. I never wanted to look vulnerable or for people to pity me, so I hid my illness for a long time and then I controlled it with alcohol. I also used to handle my alcohol a lot better so it seemed like a perfect solution at first. I would never have a panic attack whilst drinking so I could control what aspect people saw of me and it wasn't the vulnerable side.
1day, I also appreciate what you said about life not being all unicorns and rainbows straight away, I think to expect it to be is to set myself up for failure, both with getting sober and in recovery from mental illness. And I definitely think PAWS is a real thing. I'm sorry that you had the relapse with the pain pills, I know the feeling of "I have to get stuff done so i'll just drink/use" but it was extra unfair that you were dealing with an injury.
Really appreciate all the replies everyone
I also work from home (very grateful for that!), I don't spend too much time on the phone but I agree, it's easier than having to be in the company of people all day.
I think I have a strange kind of social anxiety because I actually find it easier being in the company of strangers because if I have a panic attack and run away from a situation, I never have to see them again. I was actually meeting a friend for the yoga class and I felt so guilty to have let her down and more than anything, embarrassed.
This links into what 1dayatatyme said about shame, I think I have always been massively ashamed of having panic attacks and anxiety because I liked to think they didn't fit with my personality, I used to be very outgoing and confident. I never wanted to look vulnerable or for people to pity me, so I hid my illness for a long time and then I controlled it with alcohol. I also used to handle my alcohol a lot better so it seemed like a perfect solution at first. I would never have a panic attack whilst drinking so I could control what aspect people saw of me and it wasn't the vulnerable side.
1day, I also appreciate what you said about life not being all unicorns and rainbows straight away, I think to expect it to be is to set myself up for failure, both with getting sober and in recovery from mental illness. And I definitely think PAWS is a real thing. I'm sorry that you had the relapse with the pain pills, I know the feeling of "I have to get stuff done so i'll just drink/use" but it was extra unfair that you were dealing with an injury.
Really appreciate all the replies everyone
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Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 425
Waterlines, Please feel free to write as much or as little as you want. There's no pressure here. Really. Just know that we're here for you. If you have questions or concerns. Or if you just want to vent. Or if you just want to say hi. But we do hope you'll stick around.
But we do hope you'll stick around. Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 425
Me again. Regarding dealing with bad thoughts that surface during meditation (or at other times), there is an interesting sticky thread on the Anxiety board that I skimmed thru earlier. I need to go back and read it in more detail. In part, it talks about how our memories are "packaged" with the emotions that we felt at the time the memory was formed. BUT, when the brain accesses the memory later on, there is delay between when the memory first lights up and when the emotional part kicks in. I think it said upwards of a 90 second delay. I thought that was really fascinating. So then in meditation, when an unpleasant memory surfaces you have time to just acknowledge it and then switch your focus back on something positive before the emotional part of the memory kicks in.
I've always thought about meditation as a "practice", but in a vague kind of way. Now I'll be thinking of it (in part at least) as a way to practice exploiting and learning to control that little memory\emotion tape delay.
And on that note, I am truly going to call it a night.
I've always thought about meditation as a "practice", but in a vague kind of way. Now I'll be thinking of it (in part at least) as a way to practice exploiting and learning to control that little memory\emotion tape delay.
And on that note, I am truly going to call it a night.
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Midwest
Posts: 419
waterlines,
I was thinking about a couple of things i wanted to get back to you about. One was: thanks for the compliment about my explanation of mindfulness. That was a joy to me and I was glad you found it helpful.
Two: You were saying, "Yeah, but what if you have some really worrying thing to worry about?" I was thinking that if it wasn't for worries, sadness and anger the ancients probably never would have dreamed up meditation or what is now also called mindfulness in the first place. And as for something that really needs worried about, here's my question: Is the worry so immediate that you can't take a pause from worrying about it for a few minutes, maybe twenty minutes or so without something bad happening? Probably not. If it's that immediate and that severe, you had better be moving beyond just worrying about it and taking some kind of concrete action right away, right?
Jerri,
I'm glad to see that there's some conversation here about this meditation stuff because I love it so and it's just great to be able to talk about it some. And yeah, there is a emotional component to it. I had never heard about there being that 90 second delay but I just kinda realized from my own observations that they don't always come at you together. It seems to me that there usually is a thought first and then a feeling. But sometimes they seem to show up at the door hand in hand. I just know they are a stronger team when they are together and more of a handful. You can find yourself dealing with both at once. A negative thought by itself is not usually too much of a problem. When it brings its big friend, some big bad emotion, is generally when it is most likely to become painful and wounding.
I am glad to see that about your research here in the site about some of the ins and outs related to all of this. I have read that, for instance, the thought can be about something long, long ago, but the feeling -- especially, for our purposes, the bad feeling -- that feeling can be as real as if the thing is happening again . . . . right now.
And so, if it is a bad, bad thing, instead of only having to experience it once, when it happened, you can experience it an unlimited number of times, in your thoughts and emotions. So instead of one pain, there can be thousands of pains about the same da*n thing. And it can go on forever, AND it can build with repetition in intensity over time and overflow into other parts of our awarenesses and . . . well, you know, really bad stuff.
That's why we have to really be on our toes, and stay on top of this stuff, because, like I like to say, your thoughts and feelings, or your thoughtlings are either going to be on top of you, or you are going to be on top of them.
I was thinking about a couple of things i wanted to get back to you about. One was: thanks for the compliment about my explanation of mindfulness. That was a joy to me and I was glad you found it helpful.
Two: You were saying, "Yeah, but what if you have some really worrying thing to worry about?" I was thinking that if it wasn't for worries, sadness and anger the ancients probably never would have dreamed up meditation or what is now also called mindfulness in the first place. And as for something that really needs worried about, here's my question: Is the worry so immediate that you can't take a pause from worrying about it for a few minutes, maybe twenty minutes or so without something bad happening? Probably not. If it's that immediate and that severe, you had better be moving beyond just worrying about it and taking some kind of concrete action right away, right?
Jerri,
I'm glad to see that there's some conversation here about this meditation stuff because I love it so and it's just great to be able to talk about it some. And yeah, there is a emotional component to it. I had never heard about there being that 90 second delay but I just kinda realized from my own observations that they don't always come at you together. It seems to me that there usually is a thought first and then a feeling. But sometimes they seem to show up at the door hand in hand. I just know they are a stronger team when they are together and more of a handful. You can find yourself dealing with both at once. A negative thought by itself is not usually too much of a problem. When it brings its big friend, some big bad emotion, is generally when it is most likely to become painful and wounding.
I am glad to see that about your research here in the site about some of the ins and outs related to all of this. I have read that, for instance, the thought can be about something long, long ago, but the feeling -- especially, for our purposes, the bad feeling -- that feeling can be as real as if the thing is happening again . . . . right now.
And so, if it is a bad, bad thing, instead of only having to experience it once, when it happened, you can experience it an unlimited number of times, in your thoughts and emotions. So instead of one pain, there can be thousands of pains about the same da*n thing. And it can go on forever, AND it can build with repetition in intensity over time and overflow into other parts of our awarenesses and . . . well, you know, really bad stuff.
That's why we have to really be on our toes, and stay on top of this stuff, because, like I like to say, your thoughts and feelings, or your thoughtlings are either going to be on top of you, or you are going to be on top of them.
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Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 425
Waterlines, I wanted to ask ... You said you're seeing a psychiatrist ... Is he\she aware of the extent of the drinking and that you're using it to try to cope with the anxiety? If not, it would be a really good idea to come completely clean about that. Be totally honest about what's going on. Having some medical supervision while you sober up could make a big difference.
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