Hammer

What we observe on the outside tends to come from within.

For a peek on the inside . . . figured a Brain Scan thread would be a start.

This TED talk seemed like a good start.

The most important lesson from 83,000 brain scans | Daniel Amen | TEDxOrangeCoast

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esPRsT-lmw8

Hammer

For anyone reading in this section for whatever cause . . . this one is even better.

Dr. Amen, again, with earlier, with more detailed applications on avoiding damage, and healing of brains.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLKj1puoWCg

Sample -- "Best anti-depressant -- Gratitude."

Hammer

NIMH (National Institute of Mental Health) take on Scans . . .

Pretty well covers the topic at a General Level.

NIMH · Neuroimaging and Mental Illness: A Window Into the Brain

wackybunny

I just watched the first one and really enjoyed it. I like his point that the brain is rarely looked at, a bit scary really.

Hammer

Yep.

"How do you know, unless you look?"

The arrogance and ignorance of the general industry is stunning.

Daniel Amen is the most popular psychiatrist in America. To most researchers and scientists, that’s a very bad thing. - The Washington Post

"“Psychiatry is broken,” he is given to say, and psychiatrists “remain the only medical specialists that rarely look at the organ they treat.” He scoffs that diagnostic methods have scarcely progressed since “the days of Abe Lincoln.”"

silentrun

I watched this one. That explains a lot!

Sbforever

This thread would just not be complete without the addition of this article from psychology today called Scientific Fraud About Brain Scan Findings

Scientific Fraud About Brain Scan Findings | Psychology Today

I am still watching the video and he is talking about longevity ,

Check out this: Addicts and people with ADHD traits live longer , The study was conducted among 1,000 seniors aged 90 to 109 years old who lived in the Leisure World retirement community in Laguna Woods, California.

Gene Responsible for ADHD, Addiction May Help People Live Long

(There is no gene proven to cause ADHD traits and addiction !) but its still worth reading.

I still watching the video you posted.

Sbforever

That article in the Washington Post mentions the "National Alliance on Mental Illness"

None of the nation’s most prestigious medical organizations in the field — including the APA, the National Institute of Mental Health, the American College of Radiology, the Society of Nuclear Medicine and Molecular Imaging and the National Alliance on Mental Illness — validates his claims.

What ??? The National Alliance on Mental Illness is NOT a 'prestigious medical organization'.

The National Alliance on Mental Illness is funded by the pharmaceutical industry to push its products and also lobbies against patient rights including a patients right to refuse medication !

'Prestigious medical organization' , what do they have 3rd graders writing for the Washington Post now ???

At one point Eli Lilly even "loaned" one of there paid executives to work out of NAMI headquarters. That's right Eli Lilly paid a dude to work at NAMI ! NAMI always opposes patient rights or anything else that may hurt pharmaceutical company profits. Oh the dishonesty !

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/22/he...nami.html?_r=0

I did like that video but I have to give it a thumbs down , why ?

Dr. Daniel Amen, Dr. Williams Beardslee Among Keynote Speakers for NAMI California Annual Conference, August 16, 17th.

Hammer

The first one was funny. At least to me. To make a claim that something is a "Fraud" is quite a claim.

In general for something to be a fraud, several elements are required.

Specifically:

A Claim must be made;
The claim must be false;
The claimant must have known or could have reasonably known it was false;
Others must have heard the fraud and believed it;
Others must have acted on the fraud due to the (mis)representation; AND
Others must have been harmed.

All of those. Nothing I have read or seen in relation to Brain Scans come close to fraud. Although many Drama Queens (like this article) do go straight to nonsense and drama.

But towards the specific claim where it goes to some REAL (mho) Meat . . .

While his observation(s) are chiefly towards comparative size . . . the level of function (and most of the research being "dis-ed") deals primarily with FUNCTIONING levels of the areas under study. Little to do with comparative size.

If you do not believe me, look at the landmark study from which much of this stems (and in specific Borderline, such as the author cites) . . . It is about Hyper-Activity (a matter of measurable function) of the Amygdala, AND it is being measured with fMRI (where the "f" stands for function, as it measures blood flow). HAS little to NOTHING to do with comparative size, but rather the comparative ACTIVITY. Don't believe me? Just look at the title . . .

Amygdala Hyperreactivity in Borderline Personality Disorder: Implications for Emotional Dysregulation

http://www.cla.temple.edu/cnl/PDFs/D...islowOlson.pdf

But then the author goes on and on about comparative sizes not being valid of anything like he is slaying a mythical dragon of phrenology from 100 years ago. Self-indulgent drama.

The Real Topic of Scanning and Diagnosis is FUNCTION. or Dysfunction.

What I am seeing is a lame attempt at (failing) to debunk that behavior is related to hardware. Physiologists have been leaning towards hardware being a root of problems for a while. But then they deal in hardware. Psychologists seem to be dragging along behind thinking that it can best be dealt with as a Software problem.

A sort of fun argument, I suppose for those that enjoy it. In truth it is likely partly both, and more.

As for the second:

sorry, no real comment from me on this one.

Sort of seems like typical infomercial glib.

But you follow that the genetic issues are just "traits?" Not so much a cause and effect "brown eyes v. blue eyes" thing -- even the known ones -- like Borderline -- require environmental factors to manifest into the dysfunction.

Hammer

A more general discussion and videos of some specific areas and functions >>>

Nancy Kanwisher: A neural portrait of the human mind | Talk Video | TED.com

Nancy Kanwisher: A neural portrait of the human mind

Brain imaging pioneer Nancy Kanwisher, who uses fMRI scans to see activity in brain regions (often her own), shares what she and her colleagues have learned: The brain is made up of both highly specialized components and general-purpose "machinery." Another surprise: There's so much left to learn.

Hammer

sb, you may like this one . . .

Molly Crockett: Beware neuro-bunk

Molly Crockett: Beware neuro-bunk | Talk Video | TED.com

Brains are ubiquitous in modern marketing: Headlines proclaim cheese sandwiches help with decision-making, while a “neuro” drink claims to reduce stress. There’s just one problem, says neuroscientist Molly Crockett: The benefits of these "neuro-enhancements" are not proven scientifically. In this to-the-point talk, Crockett explains the limits of interpreting neuroscientific data, and why we should all be aware of them.

Hammer

And further out in experimental psych . . .

Networking observations . . .

Read Montague: What we're learning from 5,000 brains | Talk Video | TED.com

Read Montague: What we're learning from 5,000 brains

Mice, bugs and hamsters are no longer the only way to study the brain. Functional MRI (fMRI) allows scientists to map brain activity in living, breathing, decision-making human beings. Read Montague gives an overview of how this technology is helping us understand the complicated ways in which we interact with each other.

Sbforever

No brain scan exists that can distinguish between a person with psychiatric diagnosis from a person who is 'normal'.

There are no medical tests of any kind that can distinguish between a person with psychiatric diagnosis from a person who is 'normal', not even with an autopsy after death.

Hammer

Well, I suppose from just simple tumors, alone . . . we know that is not true, no?

happybeingme

What about James Fallon's work? Perhaps no of those subjects were diagnosed as pyschopaths but all of their fMRI scans sure showed the same deficiencies

Sbforever

Actually, these scientists do not know if what they have found is an abnormality or not. What makes the use of the term abnormality [or deficiency] totally misleading is that the brain, particularly in terms of limbic system structures, is plastic. This means that, in the normal brain, these structures can change in size to reflect activities that become important to a given individual. Such changes can be very quick and substantial.

For example, in the February 2010 issue of the Archives of General Psychiatry (Volume 67 [2] pp. 133-143), Pajonk, Wobrock, Gruber et. al. found that after just three months of a vigorous exercise program, the size of a brain structure called the hippocampus increased an average of 16 percent in "normals!"

It is also true that the part of the brain that controls finger movements is, on average, much larger in concert violinists than in non-musicians. The conclusions that the so-called biological psychiatrists would be, I guess, that both being a concert violinist and engaging in vigorous exercise are diseases!

Scientific Fraud About Brain Scan Findings | Psychology Today


You should read the whole article if you are interested in this kind of thing.

happybeingme

I have read the article and do agree with much of what is said. It makes sense and I understand the misuse of the word disease. I also need to read these articles and actually listen to the talks.

It probably would have been helpful if I mentioned that James Fallon is a professor of psychiatry and human behavior, and an emeritus professor of anatomy and neurobiology at the School of Medicine, UC Irvine. His fMRI work didnt show a difference in brain size but rather a total lack of brain activity in the prefrontal cortexes of serial killers.

I dont have quick access to my copy of his book The psychopath Inside but its an interesting read. And explains a lot of work on this

One more thing. Dr. Fallon also discovered after having his own fMRI scan done that he is a psychopath as well

Hammer

We did read it and that is why it is considered nonsense.

Of course relative SIZE is not the issue.

This is about FUNCTION (and dysfuction -- aka Mental Illness).

happybeingme

I feel like this is an apple and orange discussion here.

One is a discussion on the functioning of the different parts of the brain and the other discussion is on the size of the parts. Am I right with this opinion or completely off the mark?

Hammer

Yes. And it is intentional.

Also called a "straw man" argument and generally seen as a form of "trolling."

The only real topic in relation to fMRI (notice the "f" part which stands for Functional) is the Function (or dysfunction) that may be indicated from Scans.

The entire relative "size" nonsense is just noise being injected to obscure the topic.

Not an accident.

Straw man - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia