FeenixxRising

I've read the "We Agnostics" chapter and it didn't click. I found the argument to be rather disingenuous, if not absurd. Basically, I heard "don't be an Agnostic, believe in some type of God."

Huh?

So it's not working for me. Did I miss something? Can anyone offer any suggestions or perhaps some suggested reading other than the BB that may give a more rational explanation has to how an Agnostic could have "faith" in a higher power?

Thanks

HuskyPup

I found the same thing: It seemed to say: "We'll tolerate you agnostics, but you'll come around to faith, then you'll really be accepted and able to do all the rest!" And at various meetings, I was treated in a very similar way: tolerated, but not really listened to, like some pesky fly they wished would go away, so I did. I've had better luck using different strategies for recovery, though some things work better for some, and some work better for others.

I've found it more helpful to slowly develop a more positive support network on my own, and not get thrown off by forcing myself into various molds. Even if I can't find meetings where I feel I can honestly share, I can still recover. maybe they exist, but I've tired of looking.

My sobriety became more important than insisting I be understood.

Again, I think AA is wonderful for some, but I feel no one program works for everyone, and that atheists and agnostics are often marginalized.

amberbris

I also found the same thing to be true. The BB seems to try to streamline people into an evangelical religion. It's really rather disgusting. The good news is that there are many better options out there. You could try SOS or Smart Recovery if this doesn't work for you.

FeenixxRising

I'm comfortable with the AA meetings I attend, even though they are Judeo-Christian centric. And I like the idea of working the steps; I believe it would be beneficial. I am a spiritual person, but right now I have no higher power/God that I would turn my will and life over to.

Faking it until I make it doesn't sit well with me, so I'm at stuck at step 3.

HuskyPup

Well, I hope you find a way to keep moving on. It can be hard. Maybe you can use nature, or something more Tao based? Though I'm not sure these things 'count'.

awuh1

I never found the phrase “fake it till you make it” useful. When I first went to AA I was an agnostic leaning heavily in the direction of atheism. I had no qualms about saying this outright in meetings, and never encountered a problem with anyone as a result. I was just being honest about my beliefs.

Then one day a guy asked me if I thought that anything was more powerful than I was. I said sure, a piano hanging over my head. Gravity was in fact more powerful than me. His response was “that’s a start”.

Well I was speechless. I mean, what do you say to that? But the more I thought about it the more I had to admit (to myself) that I had never made any real investigation of any of the worlds religions, much less the vague term “spirituality”. If anyone had even mentioned the G word to me I did not even bother to listen the rest of what they had said. I, in fact, had been even more closed minded that I had accused them of being.

So for a long time I had “Group Of Drunks” as the power greater than myself. They were a big help, and thus the problem was solved.

NoelleR

Wow, just disingenuous....? I, and most of my friends, found that chapter to be arrogant, self-righteous, pompous, and condescending to anyone who's opinion differs from the writers......hmmmmm

(o:
NoelleR

P.S. Actually, what we heard a lot of the time was that we could have our own understanding (of God), but it was always the same God.

Boleo

Act as if there is something like good karma going on in the universe... and the Universe will act as if there is something like good karma going on in your life.

paulmh

AA made demands of me that I wouldn't have voluntarily made of myself. That includes the "Chapter to the Agnostic".

I've kinda given up the notion that if something makes me uncomfortable it's somehow a "bad thing". The word that springs to mind is "decadent"?

wir

The book "twelve steps on Buddha's path" by Laura s. really helped me. She's an atheist who found a way of working the spiritual side of the program through zen Buddhism. At the very least the book is a great look at working the program without believing in a specific creator/"higher power whom I choose to call god" type thing.

FeenixxRising

Thank you wir, this is the kind of information I'm looking for.

FeenixxRising

I'm not sure I follow Paul. I have no problem with demands or being uncomfortable with new ideas and approaches. However, I can't simply drop a lifetime of belief and rational thinking and create a God I may not believe in simply because a recovery program says I should.

I'm only looking for a more reasoned argument for agnostics and skeptics than the argument presented in the We Agnostics chapter. I do want to get and stay sober, but I can't just dial back my brain and ability to reason just so I can fake it until I make it. As I said, I have a spiritual side, it just needs to be stoked with a reasoned and thoughtful argument.

Lyoness

I really like Charlotte Kasl's "Many Roads, One Journey." She discusses AA and other sobriety programs but mostly focuses on AA and its inherent sexism plus everything being discussed here. She doesn't put AA down but gives a really good understanding of its history and where and how pieces may or not fit for women, for spiritual but not religious people and so on.

She's also created "16 steps for recovery" which she calls a guideline and encourages people to use as is or change to fit one's own needs. I've only read parts the book so far but I have been really impressed. What I like most is that I feel like it addresses my concerns and needs and it makes me feel included.

Kirashi

*raises paw* Non-deistic agnostic here. Mmmm, I disregarded that chapter early on. It's a condescending and offensive declaration that helps further alienate AA from many people. As for HPs, mine's the Fellowship. At the meetings and clubhouses I attend, I'm openly agnostic (and also openly LGBT and furry) and people do not only not mistreat me, but are proud of the progress I've made against my demons. I feel more at ease in those rooms and feel they care for me, and as a united force they are far more powerful than I. Now, of course, that doesn't make me an invalid, either (I actually discussed self-will and balance as chairperson yesterday, and it was well received), and I need to rely upon myself to some degree.

Soberpotamus

Thanks for this suggestion. I put it on my Amazon wish list just now.