Gwaredd

Hi,

I've was prescribed Oxycodone for an arthritic condition a little over four months ago. My script calls for 20mg every four hours so that adds up to 80 mgs per day. Sometimes I will take 30mgs four times per day. The bottom line is: I want off this stuff. I know that after awhile it won't be very effective which means a dosage increase which I don't want to do.

I've posted before but I never really received any specific answers. This is the first time I have ever been on this stuff so I know nothing about it. I do know that it can become addicting.

Is a 120mg per day considered a high dose? If so, how do I go about quitting. Do I just stop or do I have to slowly cut down the amount over a period of time.

I've read other posts that seem to give conflicting responses to these types of questions so I would really appreciate some feedback from folks who are more in the know that I am.

Thank you!

SilverSparkCat

Hi!

If you're already taking more than your doctor prescribed after 4 months then you have already realized-1) How quickly you need a higher dosage already which leads to 2) Discovering how highly addictive Oxy is.

You should discuss with your doctor a tapering regime. My doctor told me to stop taking a 20 mg pill every other day and taper off for a few months. Its different for everyone but tapering will help lessen any serious wds.

Knowning and wanting to get off this drug is the first big step. Don't let 8 yrs slip by and find yourself completely run by this drug like I was. I can tell you that Oxy causes more problems in the long run then it will in helping the pain.

I'm not sure if I was any help but I do highly recommend discussing this with your doctor. Good luck.

OxyMaddened

If you have been taking that much for the past 4+ months IMO (from my own personal experience) you should be building up a tolerance, which begets physical dependency, resulting in withdrawal if you suddenly quit.

That sure seems like a rather large amount to start out with, to me your Dr. seems a bit reckless. Are you an extraordinarily heavy person, and/or is your arthritis really, really bad, like in your back? I'm no Doctor, but I've never heard of someone being started out on such an amount. In my case, and in virtually all of the anecdotal evidence related here, people are normally started out on 5 or 10 mg. dosages, every 4-6 hours. Didn't you feel sick the first day(s) you took that much?

I ranged between 30-60 mg./day for several months after my surgery, and by the time I realized (or admitted to myself) that I'd developed a physical dependency on it, necessitating continual dosing to stave off withdrawal, my tolerance began to expand to the extent that at my worst, I was using between 150-240 mg. daily at times.

What I found to be rather paradoxical, was that in the last several months of using larger amounts, it seemed to be increasing both my pain levels and lessening my pain tolerance. I've also heard others relate such things on this forum. Some people speculate that after a long enough time, tolerance becomes toxicity....that supposition certainly made sense in my case.

Everyone is different, but I personally think that 80-120 mg. a day is a pretty high amount and definitely the road to ruin. I've heard of some people stating here that after year(s) they ended up using as much as several hundred mg./day. I can't imagine how they lived through such abuse, let alone paid for it. My levels were bad enough to cause problems with fluid retention in my lower and mid-legs to the point it was starting to cause a lot worse pain in my knees, and severely impact my mobility, which wasn't great to start with. I am currently obese and have arthritis in my knees, back and hands. The financial issues were starting to surface, too. I never Doctor-shopped, but knew some of the wrong type of people from a past relationship, so I was spending between $500-$2000/month in the end.

I think you posting on here indicates you know this is already a problem. Don't let it go any further. Try to confide in someone that can help you. Most people, myself included, have tried numerous times to "taper off" on their dosage alone, without lasting success.

For me, I had to decide to go Cold Turkey before my finances were wiped out and before it wrecked my health even worse. It was the best decision I ever made. Now I'm never broke and don't wake up with the fear that if I don't ingest at least 20-30 mg. or more first thing in the morning that I'll start getting deathly ill.

Cold Turkey Detox & withdrawal is no picnic. It's brutal....but it's better than the alternative of ever-increasing tolerance, thou$ands of dollars wasted, and worse pain than when you first began.

Gwaredd

Thanks for the advise. I kind of figured that was the case. So, I guess I begin a tapering régime. Pretty scared at this point. As I was thinking about this whole mess I think that docs give out this crap but have no idea how to get you off again. Do you really think it's going to take months to get of this. As I said in a previous post somewhere, I think I'd rather deal with the pain. I spoke with a friend of mine yesterday who also has arthritis in his back and neck as well except his goes all the way down his spine. He has been taken Vicodan for a long time. Well he found himself in severe pain in his back, went to his doc and she jumped him from Vicodan to MORPHINE!!! It knocked him flat. What the h..l is the matter with these guys. I mean jumping from Vicodan to Morphine is like going from a five to a 10 in one fell-swoop.

I don't know much about this stuff but I do know that at some point it's going to stop working and a person will need more for the same effect. And, no, it really doesn't help that much.

Did any of you experience lethargy? I haven't felt like doing a darn thing for several weeks and I just don't feel like myself. I feel weird in the head most of the time.

You are right. It's time to quit. I don't want to have happen to me what happened to my friend. As a matter of fact, my doc suggested Morphine. I told him no thanks. Man am I glad I did.

I just want myself back, pain and all. I don't want to go cold turkey though. I'm 64 and I don't think I could deal with that.

I really appreciate you writing. This is not going to be easy. I knew I had to get off the stuff but I didn't know where to begin. Should I take my normal 20mg only three times a day rather than every four hours for, maybe a week and drop it down to 10mg for awhile and then quit. I'm not looking for medical advice just some guidance. I have already talked to my doc about getting off and asked for his suggestion. He told me he wasn't exactly sure how to go about it. Needless to say, that didn't make me very comfortable.

Thank you again. I'll be looking forward to hearing from you.

Gwaredd

SilverSparkCat

As OxyMaddened mentioned above tapering off Opiates is a very, very hard thing to do. I tried and failed at it many times. I failed because I would get "bad" days and i would go straight back to my original dosage. Which would ruin the tapering regime. You must avoid that pitfall for tapering to work.

If you have the will power to taper then the regime you mentioned could work. It might take months. But, if the long term tapering is too hard then I suggest you taper for several days then go cold turkey. It's hell but there are things that can help you get through it. Send me a pm and I will give you list of what helped me get through it.

I was taking over 400 mg of Oxy a day for 8 yrs. Not only was it NOT helping the pain but it made me exhausted 24/7. And I got my Oxy for free so I had no incentive to quit bc I was going broke. I just KNEW that the drug was poisoning me and it was time to quit. I'm 24 days clean now!

I know how scared you're feeling, I was there almost a month ago. I swear I haven't laughed or smiled so much in well over 5 years and I KNOW that was due to the Oxy.

lonestarTH

I can't give any medical advice but I'll just tell you what worked for me. I was on oxycontin along with other opiates including heroin and I decided to go cold turkey. The majority of the withdrawals were over in about a week. It was painful but for me being addicted to drugs was so painful I was ready for something else. What really helped me was going to Narcotics Anonymous. I found the meeting closest to me through NA.org and I went to a meeting in my first week then started regularly attending meetings about a week in. I went to 90 meetings in 90 days, got a sponsor, started working the steps, and began doing service. I have about 4 months clean today. I don't say that to brag or anything like that just to show that there is hope for recovery. If you need some support feel free to send me a message! I know what it's like and would be happy to talk to you. Stay strong and stick with it. You can do it!!!!

Gwaredd

Given the above information I have developed a taper plan for myself. I would be happy to share this in a PM for anyone who may be interested. This approach NEEDS MODERATOR APPROVAL. If I receive such approval I will send it out. If not, then of course I will not.

Gwaredd

OxyMaddened

Gwarred,

Gee, it sounds like your Doctor has no business prescribing strong opiates given that he "has no idea" how to get you off of them. If you can, it would be a good idea before you try anything on your own, to find a Doctor who is a knowledgeable pain management specialist.

I was very scared of cold turkey & withdrawal. I'm 54 and not in that good of shape even before I got dependent on Oxy, so health wise we probably have more similarities than differences. I was so scared of it, and so convinced I couldn't handle it, I spent an extra year still on it, and wasted at least another $10,000-1$12,000 because of that fear.

Finally, I read up on some hospital & medical websites that detox/withdrawal is NOT considered life-threatening for opiates.

IMO, and from what I've read, the biggest potential danger of Detox/WD from opiates is that your electrolyte balances could be impaired because you lose so much fluids from sweating, nausea, etc.

During my worst period, I was violently vomiting for 2-1/2 days, and couldn't even keep water down. I still forced myself to try drinking as much water as possible; one, because it helps flush out your system, and two, it was better to throw up water instead of pure stomach bile (I hadn't eaten for days, no appetite) because that really burned! I also forced myself to try & drink a nutritional supplement (Nestle's version of Ensure but better tasting) which contained significant amounts of protein, vitamins & mineral supplements in an effort to keep my electrolytes in balance.

The TOU here dictates you cannot ask people for advice on how to taper or provide advice...so before you get admonished by the moderators, again I would try to find a pain management doctor who is a lot more knowledgeable than your current doctor to assist you in developing a taper plan.

I hope you can follow it, but many of us had convinced ourselves we would be able multiple times. Ultimately most of us have to face up to biting the bullet and going cold turkey. Just be prepared for the likelihood that although for most of us, the worst physical symptoms were over within a week, there is likely to be repercussions to your strength and stamina for at least 6-8 more weeks. At our ages it isn't as easy to bounce back, either, but things do get better.

Good luck with whatever course you choose.

oxyhell

big help for me this thread

Gwaredd

Oxyhell,

Would you be more specific? In what way was this thread a "big help?" I would help us to understand what you're going through so we can share experiences.

In any event, welcome!

There are a lot of good folks here who are more than willing to help.

Stick with us and best wishes,

Gwaredd

IvanKatz

As a guy with Rheumatoid arthritis (just diagnosed) and some MAJOR serious back issues - I can tell you that yes the meds work great... For a little while.
I was taking them for nearly 4 years when I decided to quit them. I'm doing all kinds of alternative stuff now and life kinda sucks without the pain meds. But life seems to be a bit better without them.
W/D sucks but if you've been taking them for only 4 months, you can expect about a 5-7 days of physical W/D. It sucks but if you're serious, you can do this.
Look, I'm known on this board for not sugar coating things. I tell it the way it is. I can tell you from experience that you are at a major crossroads right now. If you stop right now, you will have the rest of your life to live and love. You stay on the oxy and your life will SUCK!

Gwaredd

I have great respect for a man who stands up for what he believes in. Thank you for your insightful comments. As I have stated on other posts every time I broach the subject of quitting the meds with my doc his response is: "Well, that's your decision. But remember you have one of two choices: live with the pain or take the medication to eliminate it."

So here I sit trying to make up my mind which direction to take. Any advice you can offer will be greatly appreciated.

Best wishes,

Gwaredd

IvanKatz

GWaredd,
Look here buddy, I know that the meds work to kill pain. But the meds also kill who you are as well. Give it a fw more months and your entire life will revolve around a pill. You'll feel good for a week then horrible for 1-2 more. THen run short, get sick, get more, repeat. It becomes insanity. You're entire life becomes this loop of insanity. I cannot tell you what to do, just tell you I've been through this - I know!

FMTT

I'll second that. Physical pain sucks but being a slave to pills sucks even more. Long term use tends to suck the soul out of even those who continue trying to take them legally or responsibly. Your mileage may vary though.

IvanKatz

My sentiments exactly. Lets say you take the pills and your out of pain. You're also out of sex, motivation, creativity, memory, passion, regularity in the bathroom, ability to drive, and list goes on and on. You also lose all your muscle tone because you just want to "hang all day". THe inactivity makes your arthritis worse, which in turn makes you need more meds, which again, makes everything all worse..
There is NO if about wheat I said... Only when.

Gwaredd

Are you in AA or NA?

IvanKatz

I won't lie to you... No, I'm not in NA. I've considered it but never went. However, I have the motivation I need. I have this incredibly wonderful and beautiful wife that I know I would lose if I continued using medications. I say that because she told me she did not want to be married to an unmotivated zombie.
When I was taking my medications, sure, I was able to do plenty of stuff! But I mostly wanted to just hang out and enjoy the ride. Since I stopped at the beginning of the year, I've been doing pretty good (despite my back, knee, and joint pain). I was going to the gym 5 days a week but that made things a little worse after a few weeks. Now, I mostly walk, and ride a bike for an hour a day.
Now, would I iike to be out of pain 100% & hang out and ride a high? Sure! But the final cost is more than I can swallow.

Gwaredd

I never went either. I had no reason to. I don't consider myself an "addict," dependent, yes. I have a great wife too. We've been married 26 years. Fortunately, I don't go around like a zombie since I don't do that much. Nevertheless, your points are well taken about back and forth and back and forth and so on.

We have been discussing my options. She has developed an excellent taper plan whereby she controls the meds and only puts out a certain amount for the day. This dosage schedule will go on for a week then it will be dropped again. It will run over a period of eight weeks. Actually, it looks pretty good. And, at 64 and living in the country I certainly don't have access to "contacts." I wouldn't even know where to begin if I was so inclined. In reading other posts I'm not altogether thrilled with this "cold turkey" stuff but the tapering idea seems doable.

Best wishes,

Gwaredd

betterinfl

hea I've been 13 day without any meds and I am a junky I did all sorts of bad things to get drugs lucky I have a very supportive mother after i came clean with her she helped me alot. Ive done everthing and honestly amazed that Ive done this good I went cold turkey still am weak lost 30 lbs in 13 day know thats not good i am so glad to be away from that life people are right its like your married to pills and shes mean when you leave her she want all your stuff and your life

betterinfl

evertime i write a post no one does it after me wow