larrylive

I chair an NA meeting at a local In-patient Rehab, Last night we (I) talked about working the steps. I (appearently) have a different view on how long the process should take compared with most other people.

Could somebody offer their opion on how long it should take?

Regards,
Larry


PS. please keep in mind I will probably dispute whatever you say, but those of you that know me probably knew that already

Justfor1

The old timers who began AA did all 12 steps in a weekend. I've heard some people today stay on step 1 for the first year now. I don't think there is a right or wrong way to work the steps. As long as you are trying to work them your going in the right direction.

likehappiness

I do think that it is subjective. The first time it took me awhile because I had all my first resentments to get through as well as my amends. Those take time.

The big ones for most people are Step 4 &5 and 8 & 9. People are very fearful of confronting their resentments and taking care of their baggage. If they get stuck on these for a LONG time.....it lots of times leads to relapse.

It took me about 8 months to do my first 12. The more baggage released the next 12 will go faster...which I am not starting on again.

Lily

The first time through for me I started in at 3 months. I did a very thourough 4th step and 5th and they only took me about 2 months. It was imperative I got through my resentment list and really forgave everyone on there. (Most of them I found had something to do w/ me anyway) so I learned a TON. I learned that things that bug me in others is usually MY issue or I would never notice it in others. After having gotten through my list I felt GREAT relief and now I notice that I can do one "right on the spot" if offended by someone. awwww I am walking in freedom today!

Threshold

My first sponsor was AA. She was taking me through them rather quickly. I relapsed on 4 and she dropped me. I got an NA sponsor, and am working them out of the guidebook, taking as long as it takes me to do a thorough job.

I got to 4. Stalled, relapsed, Began over again. Now I am at 8 1/2 after 11 months and stalled, mostly due to an eruption of my mental illness and the issues surrounding finalizing my divorce.

I've relapsed again. But I relapse while I am neck deep in step work, meaning my relapses aren't because I've stalled, I stall because I've relapsed. I relapse because I feel hopeless and lose faith and concentration (due to fear).

My 4 and 5 didn't bring about the promised relief.

Every thing feels like a struggle. Many times in the process I return to step 3 because I know I haven't given it over, because I know I don't trust a HP will do anything for me. Unless I can do a deep and lasting three...the rest seems pointless. Mayve three would "take" if I had gotten some relief in 4 and 5...but I guess that is me having expectations and I need to let that go as well.

I feel pretty discouraged, because clearly I am not doing something right, and I have given it a great deal of time, effort and honest good will.

Clearly I'm lying to myself somewhere in there, or this would work. I think that basically I am tired and PO'd at life and just looking for excuses to give up. I've lost just about everything, see no hope for my future, and have lost motivation.

stairs

Maybe you need a break from focusing on what's wrong rather than what's right with you?

Sapling

You make a decision with step 3....You ask your Higher Power for help with step 4. It's all about asking for help. I call that prayer. You can call it asking for help. I couldn't have done step 4 alone. If you came to believe a Power greater than yourself could restore you to sanity in step 2...You can build Faith in that Power with step 4. Just ask for help. You'll get it.

Sally1009

I agonised and agonised over step three as well. I'm an atheist, so the concept of handing my life and will over to God, or a Higher Power was and is pretty meaningless to me.

However, after much work, reading secular and Buddhist versions of the steps, I finally have a more comfortable understanding of step three. I see it as simply a decision to live life differently, to live life free of intoxicants, and to be good to others. Steps 4 and 5 come much more easily then.

candie

Your philosophy ie Buddhism, and being good to others is the same as mine
Which Buddhist steps stuff have you read?

Sally1009

Google Kevin Griffin - he wrote a good book called 'One Breath At A Time'. I'll try and get hold of the Buddhist steps.

candie

Thanks hun,
I read the Therese Jacobs mindful 12 steps book, it was fab Mindfulness and the 12 Steps: Living Recovery in the Present Moment: Amazon.co.uk: Therese Jacobs-Stewart: Books

sugarbear1

Step 3 is about aligning our will with a power greater than us and putting us in that power's care. I have free will, that is what needs to align.... I'll use the word "God" to conform, but I have my own conception of a power greater than myself. Agree to disagree.

Lily

I think step 3 was the hardest for me. Here I became a Christian (or so i called myself one) back since 1989. (the God of the Bible was the God I chose to believe in) The weird part was though that I never ever trusted in this God of the Bible. I believed he existed, well, sort of...however I never trusted in my HP. A sort of light bulb moment happened for me last year when I decided to dig in and read the bible from Genesis to Revelation last year. I am not promoting any HP here, only saying what worked for me. Today I trust my HP to want what is best for me as I live in HIS ways. THAT is where my turning point came.

Threshold

I think my issue with maintaining a step 3 frame of mind is this. I am a Pantheist, so I have no issue with the idea of a power greater than myself. My issue is that my understanding of the Universe is that it has no personal interest or agenda for me. It doesn't operate that way.

As Sugarbear says, I can align my thinking to how it operates, which for me means radical acceptance. But praying that it will do something on my behalf totally doesn't jive with my understanding.

And I know that there are ways in which my brain operates, and responds to meditation, certain practices etc that CAN bring freedom from addiction. I think I get hung up on the outside/inside force thing. I get "confused" by people talking about their HP doing this or that. Sometimes I get jealous. This is a leftover from my childhood and my sense that Jesus doesn't want me for a sunbeam. And I need to drop that, get past that.

My concept of HP does provide ways to live without addiction, and I can align myself to those ways, if I don't get distracted and thrown off course by my childish feelings and responses.

I have found that other "wording" of the steps, and the 12 step literature of other recovery groups has helped me reframe my sticking points into something I don't get hung up on.

There are recovery books out there by people of every ideology, and that is a real encouragement to me. I get a great deal out of that literature. Being able to identify does make this smoother for me.

I've taken a stepwork "break" to deal with the emotional, time and legal challenges of my divorce, and it's time for me to get back to my daily stepwork practice.

I have the "steps" for recovery from being an abused and neglected child, as well as from being the child of a "Tiger Mom", and those feel as critical to me as the steps for dealing with addiction, because in my life those things are so closely tied to one another.

I am as addicted to those self destructive thought cycles as I am to any substance or process.

Zencat

I understand that doing the steps is a life changing process. Then I guess its up to the individual to decide how urgent it is to change for the better.

The same is very true to me as well. I did a lot of meaningless shite in my active addiction, I'd be dammed if I carry that over into my recovery.

What a wonderful reality that others before us have found deep lasting sobriety by seeking a understanding of the steps that have meaning for the secular/agnostic/atheist person. I see this as the work of my HP = Helping People.

macknacat

I agree with above- its subjective , most important thing: just do it!!
on a lighter note - my ol crank freak alcoholic biker bro asked me to take him thru the steps- and he meant ALL of them in a day [and a night , as it turned out- by candle light 'cause . hard to believe, the power had been turned off to his trailer]

another sponsee, whose DOC was pot- took him 2 years . BTW was one of the most thorough stepsworks i ever had the privilege of being involved in...

both those guys are into double digit clean time

So. if you're in a hurry to see some one do 'em fast get a crankhead. Wanna take some time- find a bubonic chronic....

krug

How long did it take to become the addict/alcoholic you are. The 12 may take a lifetime.

But...you can do 1-3 today.

bryangt

It's a 'life-long journey'....

larrylive

Oh so very good...except for that procrastination sounding stuff. I know what happened when I took my time and I know what happened when I got seriously commited. I am still serious and still commited. It really seems to me that too many people are worried about themselves ie: I'm afraid, I wanna do it prefect, etc... and not concerned with how others are doing. I can't believe that some people actually reqiure as sponsor to help them figure out what there bad behaviors were, I mean really? Thay all gotta go, no half ass justifying but only if's. It's time to behave. Lying cheating and stealing are wrong, no matter how slight or petty, get over it. But most of all help somebody else get over. ya step 12 will be there while you dilly dally your way through "recovery", but that newcomer sittin next to might not, so ask him/her how they're doing, grab a cup of coffee and do some step WORK, not step talk.

Be Well
Larry

PS did some one say a crank addict did the steps in a day and a pothead took like a year or two...go figure

mfanch

My opinion (not really an opinion, since it is stated in our Big Book) is that the steps are the solution to the addiction problem. The book states when to do them.....ASAP. The women with whom I work usually take about two weeks to a month to get through them all (usually get them going on step9 and concurrently do 10-12 immediately after, so that they are doing them as they finish up 9). The only reason it takes that long is me. I have children, and family, and a job. I usually will do 123 on a Sunday, then give them till the following Sunday to write a fourth and come over and do a fifth. Then they do 6 and 7 that day, too, and then I give them till the following Sunday to write out 8 and getting going on 9. On that second week, we also do 10-12. That way they have the tools and can keep going on 9.

Now if I didn't work and have family....oh boy, I could have uninterrupted time with sponsees and take them through in a day, maybe 2.


mf