Relapsed and Sick
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 26
Relapsed and Sick
Hi,
I'm new on here. Just want to say first this is a great forum, and I'm learning alot, I've lurked here for weeks.
I've been addicted to oxycotin for a few years. At my height, I took 80 mg/day, but towards the end, it was more like 40 mg/day.
Last August, I entered an outpatient program and was started on Suboxone. I was on it for 3 weeks, but I had a bad experience. I have Crohn's disease, and as we know with narcotics, it can make you constipated - which is dangerous for those with IBD and Crohn's. But, somehow I managed with laxatives, enemas, etc. However, when I was put on Suboxone, I literally couldn't go at all. It was building up in my system, and my brain swelled gradually to give me terrible migraines. In fear that my bowels stopped working and fearing ripping of the intestines and septic infection, I tapered off the Suboxone. Went through the worst withdrawals I could ever imagine.
I had diahrrea for weeks, and lost over 20 lbs in the course of 2 weeks. I was getting thinner and weaker. In a very unrecommended to others, and unconventional way - since Immodium or the prescribed meds for the diahrea stop working, I used small doses of oxy to get me through. I tapered off that successfully. I DO NOT recommend anyone do this, but I know my body, and if I were to lose another 5 lbs, I would have ended up in the hospital.
From that point, I went through the next 20 days drug free. Had bad, bad wthdrawals, BUT NOTHING COMPARED to the withdrawals of Suboxone. Suboxone was pure poison for me. I know alot of people had success with it, so I'm not knocking it - it has worked for many people. For my body chemistry, it was too strong, and building up in my bloodstream, and without elimination through bowel movements, I couldn't get it out of my system.
Anyways, the w/d's have been rough, but on Wednesday, I seemed to drop to a low point with depression, and although I was glad I had 20 days, my heart felt I was hopeless. I knew I had 5 oxys in my closet. Stupidly, and I emphasize STUPIDLY, I took a 15 mg oxy. I thought it might alleviate my emotional pain, just for a day.
I was WRONG. In the past, my body would have welcomed it, and it's soothing qualities. But, my body had detoxed past it, and now it was just too much...I ended up leaving in the morning from work, and in terrible stomach and head pain for all of yesterday and last night. Between vomiting, shaking, and the sweats, I was frightened, and so angry that I did this to myself.
Right now, I sit right back down here with the depression. I've taken today off of work because I literally can not muster the want to even smile - to act normally and professionally at work. I can not believe I gave up on myself and took that Oxy. I can not believe I put my body through the last 28 hrs of hell.
What is wrong with me? I'm so sad and depressed I have no idea what to do with myself.
I'm new on here. Just want to say first this is a great forum, and I'm learning alot, I've lurked here for weeks.
I've been addicted to oxycotin for a few years. At my height, I took 80 mg/day, but towards the end, it was more like 40 mg/day.
Last August, I entered an outpatient program and was started on Suboxone. I was on it for 3 weeks, but I had a bad experience. I have Crohn's disease, and as we know with narcotics, it can make you constipated - which is dangerous for those with IBD and Crohn's. But, somehow I managed with laxatives, enemas, etc. However, when I was put on Suboxone, I literally couldn't go at all. It was building up in my system, and my brain swelled gradually to give me terrible migraines. In fear that my bowels stopped working and fearing ripping of the intestines and septic infection, I tapered off the Suboxone. Went through the worst withdrawals I could ever imagine.
I had diahrrea for weeks, and lost over 20 lbs in the course of 2 weeks. I was getting thinner and weaker. In a very unrecommended to others, and unconventional way - since Immodium or the prescribed meds for the diahrea stop working, I used small doses of oxy to get me through. I tapered off that successfully. I DO NOT recommend anyone do this, but I know my body, and if I were to lose another 5 lbs, I would have ended up in the hospital.
From that point, I went through the next 20 days drug free. Had bad, bad wthdrawals, BUT NOTHING COMPARED to the withdrawals of Suboxone. Suboxone was pure poison for me. I know alot of people had success with it, so I'm not knocking it - it has worked for many people. For my body chemistry, it was too strong, and building up in my bloodstream, and without elimination through bowel movements, I couldn't get it out of my system.
Anyways, the w/d's have been rough, but on Wednesday, I seemed to drop to a low point with depression, and although I was glad I had 20 days, my heart felt I was hopeless. I knew I had 5 oxys in my closet. Stupidly, and I emphasize STUPIDLY, I took a 15 mg oxy. I thought it might alleviate my emotional pain, just for a day.
I was WRONG. In the past, my body would have welcomed it, and it's soothing qualities. But, my body had detoxed past it, and now it was just too much...I ended up leaving in the morning from work, and in terrible stomach and head pain for all of yesterday and last night. Between vomiting, shaking, and the sweats, I was frightened, and so angry that I did this to myself.
Right now, I sit right back down here with the depression. I've taken today off of work because I literally can not muster the want to even smile - to act normally and professionally at work. I can not believe I gave up on myself and took that Oxy. I can not believe I put my body through the last 28 hrs of hell.
What is wrong with me? I'm so sad and depressed I have no idea what to do with myself.
Last edited by TryingOnceAgain; 10-21-2011 at 06:26 AM. Reason: misspelled a word
MIND OF DESTRUCTIVE TASTE
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 744
Hi and welcome to SR 
I've been addicted to heroin, Oxy, Fentanyl patches, norco etc etc etc over the past 10 years. Physical w/d's are brutal when coming off of opiates as you very well know. This last time going thru the w/d's took me weeks to feel better, even longer to gain back any kind of energy. I already suffer from mental illnesses, so I feel into an even deeper depression during this time and it lasted far past the physical aspect of it. This is of course only my experience. Join us on Kicking the Oxy thread here in this forum, you will learn a lot. We will welcome you there as well It's hard and I'm still picking up the damn shattered pieces of my life and I suspect it's going to take some time.
Do you have any support irl? Have you tried NA? It's not for everyone, including myself, however many have found success. SR is a great place to start!
I'm glad to hear you flushed the rest of the junk down the toilet, great first step. I'm sorry you are suffering, I'm always here to listen as well as others. Sorry I my reply is all over the place, I'm not having a good day.
Take care of yourself and post as much as you need.
-Jess
I've been addicted to heroin, Oxy, Fentanyl patches, norco etc etc etc over the past 10 years. Physical w/d's are brutal when coming off of opiates as you very well know. This last time going thru the w/d's took me weeks to feel better, even longer to gain back any kind of energy. I already suffer from mental illnesses, so I feel into an even deeper depression during this time and it lasted far past the physical aspect of it. This is of course only my experience. Join us on Kicking the Oxy thread here in this forum, you will learn a lot. We will welcome you there as well It's hard and I'm still picking up the damn shattered pieces of my life and I suspect it's going to take some time. Do you have any support irl? Have you tried NA? It's not for everyone, including myself, however many have found success. SR is a great place to start!
I'm glad to hear you flushed the rest of the junk down the toilet, great first step. I'm sorry you are suffering, I'm always here to listen as well as others. Sorry I my reply is all over the place, I'm not having a good day.
Take care of yourself and post as much as you need.
-Jess
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 26
Hi Jess,
Thank you for replying and for the support. I've seen your posts on here, and know a little bit about your world. I know it's been difficult for you, and I pray things get better for you too.
I don't have any support. No one knows about my addiction. I did enter an outpatient program, that I still see a therapist at every few weeks. But, other than the treatment place, no one knows. Previous to my oxy problem, I had a bad coke problem, and everyone knew. I hurt alot of people and I just can't put them through this again.
I will tell you that I need to stop this or I will die. My oxy habit was responsible for my adrenal glands shutting down, my period stopping. I had to go to an endocrinologist because my body stopping making cortisol - the hormone that helps you deal with stress. I thought I was perimenopausal...I hadn't had a period in 8 months, but I was only 38. Turns out, the cortisol was the problem, and the adrenal fatique. I think I've put my body through so much with the drugs, it was slowly shutting down.
I also have Crohn's and stage 4 Lyme disease, so I was taking the oxy's for physical and mental pain. Also, yes, I had been diagnososed with major depression and was on every anti-depressant for years - about 18 years. I stopped taking them this past July because they were severly affecting my memory, plus I had gained 30 lbs in one year (I've always been thin) because of them, and that was bumming me out.
I also have GAD - generalized anxiety disorder, and am on Xanax for that...which I would like to gradually taper off of.
So, I'm a mess.
I do feel "better" off the anti-d's in that I'm less foggy-brained, can remember more, and recall better, and am finally losing the weight. As far as the Xanax, I need those for now...but want off of them completely someday. As far as the opiates, that was my goal for my 40th birthday - which was recently. I had 20 days...then I blew it. I got overwhelmingly depressed, and took one.
Can just taking that one erase all my hard work from the day 20 days?
Thank you for replying and for the support. I've seen your posts on here, and know a little bit about your world. I know it's been difficult for you, and I pray things get better for you too.
I don't have any support. No one knows about my addiction. I did enter an outpatient program, that I still see a therapist at every few weeks. But, other than the treatment place, no one knows. Previous to my oxy problem, I had a bad coke problem, and everyone knew. I hurt alot of people and I just can't put them through this again.
I will tell you that I need to stop this or I will die. My oxy habit was responsible for my adrenal glands shutting down, my period stopping. I had to go to an endocrinologist because my body stopping making cortisol - the hormone that helps you deal with stress. I thought I was perimenopausal...I hadn't had a period in 8 months, but I was only 38. Turns out, the cortisol was the problem, and the adrenal fatique. I think I've put my body through so much with the drugs, it was slowly shutting down.
I also have Crohn's and stage 4 Lyme disease, so I was taking the oxy's for physical and mental pain. Also, yes, I had been diagnososed with major depression and was on every anti-depressant for years - about 18 years. I stopped taking them this past July because they were severly affecting my memory, plus I had gained 30 lbs in one year (I've always been thin) because of them, and that was bumming me out.
I also have GAD - generalized anxiety disorder, and am on Xanax for that...which I would like to gradually taper off of.
So, I'm a mess.
I do feel "better" off the anti-d's in that I'm less foggy-brained, can remember more, and recall better, and am finally losing the weight. As far as the Xanax, I need those for now...but want off of them completely someday. As far as the opiates, that was my goal for my 40th birthday - which was recently. I had 20 days...then I blew it. I got overwhelmingly depressed, and took one.
Can just taking that one erase all my hard work from the day 20 days?
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,677
Trying,
No, the one dose isn't going to erase your hard-won 20 days. Relapse is part of recovery for a lot of people. Some consider it "the end", and go back to using. Others, like you, recognize that's not realistic or possible, and move ahead with recovery.
You have a lot of medical issues, and it sounds like you have doctors to prescribe for them. That is vitally important. Whoever has prescribed for pain for you in the past should be alerted you need something to deal with it now. Depression is really common in opiate withdrawal even without all the medical issues. That can be treated, too.
Jess is so right about getting some support for your recovery. Suffering in silence isn't necessary. There are more people in your situation that you might imagine. You are doing a great job so far. As to the Xanax, you probably know not to go cold turkey off that. Enlist your doctors for that, too.
I hope you can find some face to face support. Coming here is a great idea. It's weird how an on line forum can provide support, but it can. I was amazed when I came here and found that out.
Keep us posted on your progress.
FT
No, the one dose isn't going to erase your hard-won 20 days. Relapse is part of recovery for a lot of people. Some consider it "the end", and go back to using. Others, like you, recognize that's not realistic or possible, and move ahead with recovery.
You have a lot of medical issues, and it sounds like you have doctors to prescribe for them. That is vitally important. Whoever has prescribed for pain for you in the past should be alerted you need something to deal with it now. Depression is really common in opiate withdrawal even without all the medical issues. That can be treated, too.
Jess is so right about getting some support for your recovery. Suffering in silence isn't necessary. There are more people in your situation that you might imagine. You are doing a great job so far. As to the Xanax, you probably know not to go cold turkey off that. Enlist your doctors for that, too.
I hope you can find some face to face support. Coming here is a great idea. It's weird how an on line forum can provide support, but it can. I was amazed when I came here and found that out.
Keep us posted on your progress.
FT
Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Orlando, Fl
Posts: 300
I have been off the roxys 25 days. Thinking of taking one at this point is not an option. Not worth feeling that unrealistic sense of security then to feel even more depressed for the next 3-5 days in the real world!
I never want to have to do this again. So I keep telling myself anyway.
I never want to have to do this again. So I keep telling myself anyway.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 26
Time to Make Changes
Originally Posted by failedtaper 
Trying,
No, the one dose isn't going to erase your hard-won 20 days. Relapse is part of recovery for a lot of people. Some consider it "the end", and go back to using. Others, like you, recognize that's not realistic or possible, and move ahead with recovery.
You have a lot of medical issues, and it sounds like you have doctors to prescribe for them. That is vitally important. Whoever has prescribed for pain for you in the past should be alerted you need something to deal with it now. Depression is really common in opiate withdrawal even without all the medical issues. That can be treated, too.
Jess is so right about getting some support for your recovery. Suffering in silence isn't necessary. There are more people in your situation that you might imagine. You are doing a great job so far. As to the Xanax, you probably know not to go cold turkey off that. Enlist your doctors for that, too.
I hope you can find some face to face support. Coming here is a great idea. It's weird how an on line forum can provide support, but it can. I was amazed when I came here and found that out.
Keep us posted on your progress.
FT
No, the one dose isn't going to erase your hard-won 20 days. Relapse is part of recovery for a lot of people. Some consider it "the end", and go back to using. Others, like you, recognize that's not realistic or possible, and move ahead with recovery.
You have a lot of medical issues, and it sounds like you have doctors to prescribe for them. That is vitally important. Whoever has prescribed for pain for you in the past should be alerted you need something to deal with it now. Depression is really common in opiate withdrawal even without all the medical issues. That can be treated, too.
Jess is so right about getting some support for your recovery. Suffering in silence isn't necessary. There are more people in your situation that you might imagine. You are doing a great job so far. As to the Xanax, you probably know not to go cold turkey off that. Enlist your doctors for that, too.
I hope you can find some face to face support. Coming here is a great idea. It's weird how an on line forum can provide support, but it can. I was amazed when I came here and found that out.
Keep us posted on your progress.
FT
Thank you for responding and giving me some hope. I have followed you too on here, and you are one of the people I look up to for advice. You have come so far yourself, and are a blessing on here. Thank you for the encouragement.
As for the pain, I have to get used to doing what everyone else does and use ibupropren. I do have to tell someone though. My therapist isn't enough. Holding it inside is killing me - literally. It is making me very depressed. I feel live I live two lives: the one I show everyone - just what I want them to see, and the one I have all alone on the inside.
As for the anxiety, yes, I realize I can't c/t on that...I had w/d from that before, and believe me when I tell you, that is the only time I thought I was literally going to die. I had run out...and didn't know what was happening, and slowly my face went numb, I could hardly speak, and a friend came over in the nick of time before I passed out and gave me .5 mg of Xanax, and I was out of the woods. I have never abused Xanax since then.
I have lurked here for awhile and I can definitely say it helped me get to my 20 days...and prepared me better than the outpatient center for P.A.W.S. However, I had a weak moment Wed. night when I took the pill. Whatever fleeting cravings I had for oxys is completely gone after this experience. I never want to feel this way ever again.
Now, I have to deal with the next several days getting this poison out of my system, and praying my brain chemistry will give me the stamina to move past this.
I think tonight will be the night I tell my boyfriend...he takes Vikes routinely, and we have a tormented history and really shouldn't be together. I'm thinking he is probably a trigger for me and I need to end it anyways. I've tried to open up to him and the past, and he has literally told me, "I don't want to know, or hear it...call your friends.". Well, I can't stay with someone who can only accept the "good" parts of me, and abandons the "bad" parts - especially when I've reached out to him for help.
Guess I have some big changes for my recovery to happen...
Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 172
I had a similar experience with suboxone in 2004. Sorry to say this, but that shut us bad news and so dangerous. You going from 80 mg of Oxy a day to any amount if sub just tripled your addiction and beast. Doctors are finally starting to realize that as a partial agonist, our receptors get whacked out in a very dangerous way because our receptors are not naturally wired for partials and our systems cannot reach homeostasis while on sub.
Ethical doctors will tell you straight up that suboxone great for detox, but not maitenance. Unfortunately, doctors can make huge profits out of patients on subs and are typically no better ethically than pill mills in Central Florida. Sub docs that charge cash and place hydro or Oxy users on 8 mg or higher doses for maitenance should be closed down quicker than pill mills and are doing more damage to the individual than the pill mills. Responsible doctors are now starting to conceede that methadone is only substance that should be used for maintenance and then perhaps only 5 percent of opiate addicts should really be placed on done for maintenance because it is basically a life sentence and very few if us are that hopeless. Even the guy doing 1,000 mgs a day detoxed himself CT and was not a hopeless case.
Sorry to digress, but you are stopping at three week point so you shod be okay fairly quickly. I never had bowel problems except when I was on sub for about two months and then it got to point of chronic pain down there from pushing so hard and laxatives. The subs also caused other problems and I luckily enough, like you, realized this stuff was way more dangerous than my DOC. Oxy is actually pretty clean and causes very little physical problems without APAP. The mental issues are horrendous though. Subs are nasty and very hard in the body.
Hang in there. You can and will make it and your body will heal soon if you can keep clean and by all means people, talk to knowledgable doctors who are not charging you $ 150 or more cash per appointment to write sub scripts. Unless you are unable to find veins anymore or keep ending up in jail from stealing to buy smack, try everything else under the sun to get life back before going on long term sub maintenance.
Ethical doctors will tell you straight up that suboxone great for detox, but not maitenance. Unfortunately, doctors can make huge profits out of patients on subs and are typically no better ethically than pill mills in Central Florida. Sub docs that charge cash and place hydro or Oxy users on 8 mg or higher doses for maitenance should be closed down quicker than pill mills and are doing more damage to the individual than the pill mills. Responsible doctors are now starting to conceede that methadone is only substance that should be used for maintenance and then perhaps only 5 percent of opiate addicts should really be placed on done for maintenance because it is basically a life sentence and very few if us are that hopeless. Even the guy doing 1,000 mgs a day detoxed himself CT and was not a hopeless case.
Sorry to digress, but you are stopping at three week point so you shod be okay fairly quickly. I never had bowel problems except when I was on sub for about two months and then it got to point of chronic pain down there from pushing so hard and laxatives. The subs also caused other problems and I luckily enough, like you, realized this stuff was way more dangerous than my DOC. Oxy is actually pretty clean and causes very little physical problems without APAP. The mental issues are horrendous though. Subs are nasty and very hard in the body.
Hang in there. You can and will make it and your body will heal soon if you can keep clean and by all means people, talk to knowledgable doctors who are not charging you $ 150 or more cash per appointment to write sub scripts. Unless you are unable to find veins anymore or keep ending up in jail from stealing to buy smack, try everything else under the sun to get life back before going on long term sub maintenance.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 26
Subs
Hi Roxyblues,
Thank you for your response. See, I got off the suboxone 3 weeks after taking it...because of all the trouble it was giving me. It made my body extremely toxic, and caused my brain to swell, as well as freezing my intestional muscles from moving. I literally could NOT go to the bathroom. I was about to burst.
I knew I had to get off the subs, and get off quick...that is why I tapered off (and this is NOT medical advice, nor would I suggest anyone to do this) actually with my DOC, oxy, in small amounts - to combat the ravaging w/d's of suboxone. I was on the 15 mg/once a day of oxy for a few weeks, and then went c/t off of that. The w/d from 15 mg/oxy is a breeze compared to the week and 1/2 taper from the suboxone. For my body chemistry, it was like throwing gasoline on a fire...I kept telling my sub doctor all my symptoms from the very beginning, and he kept wanting to up my dose. Thank god I've learned to trust my body, and I have a fair amount of medical knowledge, and knew that I needed to get off the stuff as fast as I could.
I originally went ON suboxone to kick a habit of oxy between 40-80 mg/day. Yes, they wanted me to stay on suboxone for AT least a year. I can not imagine that. I know there are many out there that work the sub program and it has helped them, but when it comes time to withdraw, it is time to pay the piper. Period. People think oxy w/d's are bad; they are a walk in the park compared to suboxone w/d's - and I was only on them for 3 weeks - on the 4 mg/day of the under-the-tongue strips! Some people are on 24 mg/day and have been on it for years. That junk gets into your bones, etc. Not to say oxy is any better, but man, I would gladly go through oxy w/d anyday compared to suboxone w/d. And we all know how bad oxy w/d is.
So, to make myself clear, I'm not on suboxone. I'm not on anything right now. I slipped the other night after 20 days of being clean and had an oxy. And I paid for it. And paying for it. I thought it would be fine...a quick emotional warm blanket for my depressive thoughts. The opposite happened...I responded in a very physically sick way...vomiting, stomach aches, hot/cold, sneezing,...all the w/d stuff I remember in the beginning of my acute w/d from oxy. I NEVER thought one (1) pill would make me ill.
I'm guessing that my body detoxed itself to the point where that amount of the medicine was overload, and therefore my body had an appropriate reaction as to a toxic substance. It just sucks that I didn't know that that could potentially happen.
Lesson learned. Another lesson is that the depression is going to have to be treated here...because that is what drove me to think I could take a pill.
Thank you for your response. See, I got off the suboxone 3 weeks after taking it...because of all the trouble it was giving me. It made my body extremely toxic, and caused my brain to swell, as well as freezing my intestional muscles from moving. I literally could NOT go to the bathroom. I was about to burst.
I knew I had to get off the subs, and get off quick...that is why I tapered off (and this is NOT medical advice, nor would I suggest anyone to do this) actually with my DOC, oxy, in small amounts - to combat the ravaging w/d's of suboxone. I was on the 15 mg/once a day of oxy for a few weeks, and then went c/t off of that. The w/d from 15 mg/oxy is a breeze compared to the week and 1/2 taper from the suboxone. For my body chemistry, it was like throwing gasoline on a fire...I kept telling my sub doctor all my symptoms from the very beginning, and he kept wanting to up my dose. Thank god I've learned to trust my body, and I have a fair amount of medical knowledge, and knew that I needed to get off the stuff as fast as I could.
I originally went ON suboxone to kick a habit of oxy between 40-80 mg/day. Yes, they wanted me to stay on suboxone for AT least a year. I can not imagine that. I know there are many out there that work the sub program and it has helped them, but when it comes time to withdraw, it is time to pay the piper. Period. People think oxy w/d's are bad; they are a walk in the park compared to suboxone w/d's - and I was only on them for 3 weeks - on the 4 mg/day of the under-the-tongue strips! Some people are on 24 mg/day and have been on it for years. That junk gets into your bones, etc. Not to say oxy is any better, but man, I would gladly go through oxy w/d anyday compared to suboxone w/d. And we all know how bad oxy w/d is.
So, to make myself clear, I'm not on suboxone. I'm not on anything right now. I slipped the other night after 20 days of being clean and had an oxy. And I paid for it. And paying for it. I thought it would be fine...a quick emotional warm blanket for my depressive thoughts. The opposite happened...I responded in a very physically sick way...vomiting, stomach aches, hot/cold, sneezing,...all the w/d stuff I remember in the beginning of my acute w/d from oxy. I NEVER thought one (1) pill would make me ill.
I'm guessing that my body detoxed itself to the point where that amount of the medicine was overload, and therefore my body had an appropriate reaction as to a toxic substance. It just sucks that I didn't know that that could potentially happen.
Lesson learned. Another lesson is that the depression is going to have to be treated here...because that is what drove me to think I could take a pill.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 26
Seriously Tsmba?
Originally Posted by tsmba
There is a ton of misinformation in this thread. Anectdotes are NOT evidence...and mining online forums for "advice" is lame!
And what misinformation are you talking about? I was sharing my experience - that is what people do on here - share their experience, I'm not calling it fact. If you are ticked about my experience with subs, I'm sorry, but I have to call it as I see it. I went through it, and it was hell.
Geeze, again, I thought this was a safe place where people respected each other and didn't judge. I was also hoping someone could learn from my experiences as I learn from others.
I guess I have to find somewhere else to go. You are just mean Tsmba.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 172
People get tricky when talking about Subs. Some defend them to the end. Truth is, subs get you high and as addicts, we like to get high and escape. I am also an alcoholic, but I don't drink when I take Oxy or opiates. Subs are just a substitute to our drug of choice and remove cravings because so strong don't need anything else. The problem is they are dangerous and toxic as he'll, but lots of money to be made off of them. Muchore profitable for doctors than just about anything other than cosmetic surgery. Funny how Bupe is number 1 abused drug in European countries, but considered therapeutic here. Big pharma.
Just be careful xeroxing off subs with Oxy so as not to get stuck on Oxy. We run to subs as we are scared to feel bad and back to Oxy for same reason and I am the biggest pus of all when it comes to this. Hang in there and body will recover. I just dis an 8 day detox with Subutex and that **** was nasty. Urine stunk, I got edema, and felt sick and crazy on it. It sure is a life saver as far as acute withdrawals go though.
Sorry about typos. ******* iPhone and autocorrect busy at work. Too lazy to edit.
Just be careful xeroxing off subs with Oxy so as not to get stuck on Oxy. We run to subs as we are scared to feel bad and back to Oxy for same reason and I am the biggest pus of all when it comes to this. Hang in there and body will recover. I just dis an 8 day detox with Subutex and that **** was nasty. Urine stunk, I got edema, and felt sick and crazy on it. It sure is a life saver as far as acute withdrawals go though.
Sorry about typos. ******* iPhone and autocorrect busy at work. Too lazy to edit.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 26
Subs
Roxy,
I always hated the way Suboxone made me feel. I understand some people think subs are the Answer to their opiate problems. I understand some have successfully worked the program. But, for the poster to come on here and be RUDE to us about it just because we have a different opinion is just plain ignorant.
I can't understand why anyone would use subs to get high...they don't get you high. If anything, they just make you feel "normal". They are good for short term w/d from opiates, and that is it. The total time one should be on it is for 5-10 days max. My therapist at the rehab center I go to, that administers Suboxone and Subutex - even he secretly told me to get off of it - because it was horrible to your body...and it is all about the cash for the doctors. He agreed that short term treatment is good, but rolled his eyes at the notion of how these doctors can keep their patients on it for "maintenance" for years! This is licensed therapist telling me this! Before I was induced, I had a few patients secretly take me aside, and asked me if I knew what I was getting into. I didn't do the research, I just blindly trusted that this drug was going to help me with my narcotic problem, and that was that. I didn't know at the time they were trying to warn me.
On the flip side, I saw other patients there that had absolutely no problem on Suboxone. And then there were a few like me, who had a terrible toxic response. I just want people out there to know my experience, and that my experience alone is NOT isolated. Many, many, many folks are stuck on Suboxone, have been on maintenance for years, and would love to get off of them and can't get under 2 mg. When I went from 4 mg to 2 mg no problem. But getting under 2 mg/day...is so difficult, and painful. And the w/d's last alot longer than opiate w/d's. Much longer.
If nothing at all comes of this thread, let it be an example - from one person's experience (mine) that Suboxone and Subutex CAN POTENTIALLY be extremely harmful to you. Period. My brained swell up to the point I was having debilitating migranes (because of the buprenorphine), and my peristalsis (internal plumbing) wasn't working. People on this drug literally have to shove mouthfuls of laxatives down their throats and enemas up their butts to get a movement. That is NOT good. We need to eliminate the toxins from our bodies to heal. And if we can not perform the basic body functions of elimination, we get toxic and are literally in a countdown to be admitted to the hospital.
So, that's my two cents.
I always hated the way Suboxone made me feel. I understand some people think subs are the Answer to their opiate problems. I understand some have successfully worked the program. But, for the poster to come on here and be RUDE to us about it just because we have a different opinion is just plain ignorant.
I can't understand why anyone would use subs to get high...they don't get you high. If anything, they just make you feel "normal". They are good for short term w/d from opiates, and that is it. The total time one should be on it is for 5-10 days max. My therapist at the rehab center I go to, that administers Suboxone and Subutex - even he secretly told me to get off of it - because it was horrible to your body...and it is all about the cash for the doctors. He agreed that short term treatment is good, but rolled his eyes at the notion of how these doctors can keep their patients on it for "maintenance" for years! This is licensed therapist telling me this! Before I was induced, I had a few patients secretly take me aside, and asked me if I knew what I was getting into. I didn't do the research, I just blindly trusted that this drug was going to help me with my narcotic problem, and that was that. I didn't know at the time they were trying to warn me.
On the flip side, I saw other patients there that had absolutely no problem on Suboxone. And then there were a few like me, who had a terrible toxic response. I just want people out there to know my experience, and that my experience alone is NOT isolated. Many, many, many folks are stuck on Suboxone, have been on maintenance for years, and would love to get off of them and can't get under 2 mg. When I went from 4 mg to 2 mg no problem. But getting under 2 mg/day...is so difficult, and painful. And the w/d's last alot longer than opiate w/d's. Much longer.
If nothing at all comes of this thread, let it be an example - from one person's experience (mine) that Suboxone and Subutex CAN POTENTIALLY be extremely harmful to you. Period. My brained swell up to the point I was having debilitating migranes (because of the buprenorphine), and my peristalsis (internal plumbing) wasn't working. People on this drug literally have to shove mouthfuls of laxatives down their throats and enemas up their butts to get a movement. That is NOT good. We need to eliminate the toxins from our bodies to heal. And if we can not perform the basic body functions of elimination, we get toxic and are literally in a countdown to be admitted to the hospital.
So, that's my two cents.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,677
Originally Posted by tsmba
There is a ton of misinformation in this thread. Anectdotes are NOT evidence...and mining online forums for "advice" is lame!
All a post like that does is drive people away when they need help the most.
Anecdotes are not "misinformation" -- they are descriptions of what other people have experienced, and no one has given medical advice here that I can tell.
If you disagree with a viewpoint, please tell us why instead of slamming people for asking questions and getting answers. Granted, personal experience may not be "scientific", but sometimes the best "information" comes from real life people, with real life stuff to say.
FT
Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 267
I just want to jump in and opine for a moment, for all you lurkers and newcomers, that suboxone is not always bad news. For me, it's a crucial part of my recovery. Total respect for folks who dot like them or don't respond to them, but those vile tasting orange strips really help some people. Myself included.
Having said that, welcome to SR TryingOnceAgain. There are a bunch of us on here battling oxy addiction and we're all helping each other keep those garbage pills out of our lives.
Having said that, welcome to SR TryingOnceAgain. There are a bunch of us on here battling oxy addiction and we're all helping each other keep those garbage pills out of our lives.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 172
Definitely don't won't to appear judgmental. I am all for people having freedom to do with their bodies as they please. My gripe is with pharma and doctors charging cash and keeping people on large doses of subs who shouldn't have been on them in the first place and are mostly recreational pill users whose use got out of control and got scared of facing the pain of withdrawals. Putting people like this on bupe maintenance is basically creating a horrible long-term addiction and irreversible damage.
Strong opiates like bupe create a cortex that is unable to control or regulate mid brain impulses. This creates the physical aspect of addiction and higher powered narcotics are akin to adding more lanes to a freeway that bypasses the reasoning parts of our brain. Our mid brains are driven by greater needs for endorphin release. These pathways cannot be reversed and sub creates monster pathways.
RE: Anectodal. Our pain receptors are designed to accommodate natural full agonist. It is science that our receptors and bodies are damaged by our bodies inability to achieve homeostasis when receptors are inundated with the partial agonist bupe. I would question any doctor who charges cash, refuses to accept insurance and place hydro and Oxy users on bupe doses for longer than two or three weeks. I have a monster tolerance and 2 or 4 is enough to stabilize and detox me, although my addict mind says I need more.
If you want to do subs daily, cool. I have no qualms with people who want to shoot smack or chow 20 Roxys a day. Probably healthier than subs. Just cannot regulate use and no ceiling effect.
Strong opiates like bupe create a cortex that is unable to control or regulate mid brain impulses. This creates the physical aspect of addiction and higher powered narcotics are akin to adding more lanes to a freeway that bypasses the reasoning parts of our brain. Our mid brains are driven by greater needs for endorphin release. These pathways cannot be reversed and sub creates monster pathways.
RE: Anectodal. Our pain receptors are designed to accommodate natural full agonist. It is science that our receptors and bodies are damaged by our bodies inability to achieve homeostasis when receptors are inundated with the partial agonist bupe. I would question any doctor who charges cash, refuses to accept insurance and place hydro and Oxy users on bupe doses for longer than two or three weeks. I have a monster tolerance and 2 or 4 is enough to stabilize and detox me, although my addict mind says I need more.
If you want to do subs daily, cool. I have no qualms with people who want to shoot smack or chow 20 Roxys a day. Probably healthier than subs. Just cannot regulate use and no ceiling effect.
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Beach Town, Cali
Posts: 74
Overdose
People easily overdose after abusing opiates for a period of time and building up their tolearance. Than said person detox's and withdrawls riding the body of all the toxins and what not. Afterwards said person decides they wanna take their DOC again and takes it at the rate they did before detox. VERY DANGEROS, this is a very common way for overdose to occur, your body is no longer tolerant to such a large amount of the drug as it was before detox. Best case scenario your body rejects it and you get sick, and your body expels the drug and you ruin your high, worse case scenario you overdose and die. I hope nobody on here relapes, but please if you do lower the dose considerably than what you took pre-detox.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 172
Thanks for the heads up. Also, people with bupe saturated receptors may not feel their drug of choice unless it's fentanyl so many people on bupe take high doses to try and get some effect from their drug of choice. This could also lead to OD problems.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 26
Correction
Originally Posted by LostinLaLaland
People easily overdose after abusing opiates for a period of time and building up their tolearance. Than said person detox's and withdrawls riding the body of all the toxins and what not. Afterwards said person decides they wanna take their DOC again and takes it at the rate they did before detox. VERY DANGEROS, this is a very common way for overdose to occur, your body is no longer tolerant to such a large amount of the drug as it was before detox. Best case scenario your body rejects it and you get sick, and your body expels the drug and you ruin your high, worse case scenario you overdose and die. I hope nobody on here relapes, but please if you do lower the dose considerably than what you took pre-detox.
But, I went back after 20 days and took one 15 mg oxy (my pre-detox dose would be 40-80 mg). I thought since it was a dose LOWER than my original oxy habit, I would be ok. I did not take the same "rate as before detox" 15 mg is lower than 40-80 mg. So, if you are referring to my story, there is the correction.
Even still, my point is, that that lower amount can make you very sick.
Gosh, this is the first, and probably last time I will be here.
People either criticize you for coming on here or they mis-interpret your story entirely and try to make a point out of it. I'm out of here.
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