thejuiceman

Hey everyone. Once again, another AWESOME weekend being off opiates! Over 5 months now. Well there was a group of about 5 of us that would get the pills from each other and so on and so on. I was the first to quit and when they saw that it could actually be done, they began to follow in my footsteps. My best friend is now TWO MONTHS clean and loves it! Another friend is almost two months, but today he told me he took one percocet 10/325 (10mgs of oxycodone) as his leg got messed up playing basketball this morning. He said he only took it becasue the pain was horrible and will be taking motrin from here on out.

He is freaking out thinking its going to jolt him into a "withdrawal type feeling" and says its considered a relapse. I am telling him that if he took it because he was really hurting and isnt going to use any more that I would move past it, not call it a relapse and keep pushing forward as long as he doesnt use anymore. I told him OBVIOUSLY its not going to put him back into withdrawal or anything as his body is past that point.

What do you guys think? I feel bad for the guy as its eating him up. I personally wouldnt even take one if my arm got cut off, but to each their own.

fs101

HE is fine, after two months he shouldn't even have any WD's. My only concern for him is where he got it and if it is that available to him he may have issues in the future. I mean he may have even gone to a Dr. and gotten a few of them for a treatment of 1-2 days (which would be ok).

Bottom line is that he understands that using these for anything outside of a Dr. prescribed reason is not good and should be avoided. If he does feel like the pain needs something like that, a Dr. is the person to ask.

Grats on 5 months BTW

FT

The only problem with taking "just one" due to pain that, in the past, we would have just taken more Motrin OR just suffered through -- remember when we used to do that? -- the only problem is that if he gets away with it "this time," he MIGHT consider it a success and "proof" that he can just take a Percocet here and there if he needs to. You find a lot of people on this forum who fell back into full addiction and high doses after a few "successes" like that broke down their resolve just to not use.

It's just my opinion and my way, but my way of staying clean is to live my life like other non-opiate-users do. We just don't take an opiate for any reason, just like we never used to before we found out about them. I've had lots of pain over the years, including unmedicated childbirth, and I NEVER turned to opiates if I hurt myself. And I used to play tennis and other sports, and had my share of injuries.

I still believe that ACCESS is a recovery killer. Juice, do you keep opiates in your medicine cabinet at home? If you friend didn't either, he probably wouldn't have turned to them with this minor injury. Stress on MINOR injury. I would never deny someone pain meds for truly severe, as in postoperative, pain.

Just my opinions.

BTW, congrats on YOUR time clean. Your friend? I think he is NOT in recovery and is back at square one until proven otherwise.

FT

thejuiceman

We will see what happens, but I am going to try to make sure he doesnt do any more and I am going to find out where he got this "one" perc or if he has more.

thanks

fs101

Gotta call a little BS on some things there FT, you are right that it can lead to other things and is a "slippery slope" (I hate that saying). However, Juice's friend expressed frustration and regret with the choice, and talked about feeling bad... that is a relapse, which happens IN recovery.

We do make mistakes, and recovery is a bumpy road for some. I am glad that you are there for him Juice, and can remind him of why he wants to stay sober. Although these drugs don't fit with many people (like me) they are not demons, and have uses. Your friend falls into the same category as us, he needs to be very careful, and very honest.

I stick by what I said, it is not the end of the road, it is a bump, look back figure out where he slipped (ouch I hurt myself..now where did this little pill come from) and move Forward.

I know the saying about you can only be sober for yourself, but I think it helps to have friends to keep you honest, good looking out Juice, and just keep supporting your friends.

P.S. Now... if he goes all out and starts to drag you down too, dump the chump (after yout try to help him) don't get sucked back into that life for sure.

Tryin2Recover

Once our brains become physically dependent on opiate/opioids, they build a bunch of extra receptors that NEVER go away. As such even very small doses can trigger withdrawals. I dont know if he will experience them, but I at one point had about 3 months clean and relapsed, and had mild to moderate withdrawals from only 3 or 4 5/500 hydrocodones. Everybody is different though, so its hard to say what he will experience.

FT

fs101:

A "mistake" in recovery is called a relapse. As Juice said about his friend: "... today he told me he took one percocet 10/325 (10mgs of oxycodone) as his leg got messed up playing basketball this morning. He said he only took it becasue the pain was horrible and will be taking motrin from here on out."

This sounded to me like a guy who kept the drugs lying around in his medicine cabinet "just in case." The other thought that comes to my mind is how well addicts lie. Was this his FIRST "mistake"? If so, why such guilt?

I stand by my comment. The guy wasn't even 8 weeks clean when he relapsed. That's pretty similar, if not exactly like, an alcoholic who took a drink at less than 2 months of "sobriety." Would you consider THAT just a "bump"?

I think maybe we take a different view of opiates because they are "prescribed." Alcohol is never "prescribed," although 100 years ago it used to be given for medical purposes.

I still contend that addicts need to restrict their ACCESS to "0". If he was IN the ER and was given the Percocet there, then MAYBE it would be different, although the ER doc should have been told he was an addict and given him something else.

I didn't give my opinion in order to start an argument over the definition of "recovery." There are obviously many opinions about that here, and this is simply mine. And I don't think it is BS.

FT

thejuiceman

He didn't really feel guilty as much as he felt obligated to tell me. He has about 10 left and and said he is throwing the rest away. I hope so.

Anyways, finally nice weather this week!

FT

He probably won't. Someone should do it with him and watch him flush the pills.

Stride34

Ask him to check his motives, in a brutally honest way. Doesn't matter what he tells you. Doesn't matter if he has to change his clean date. It's just important that he realizes what really happened. I'm sure he was in pain, and it's easy to make yourself believe that's the real reason he took it...its an easy excuse. Recovering addicts who reach for percocet for true pain reasons only do it if the pain is excruciating and intolerable, if prescribed by a doctor, and if it's being dosed out to them by someone else whose holding them accountable. If they decide to take it at all.

I went through h*ll during my oxy addiction and I'm now as committed to recovery as can be... but if I had percocets within reach and no one would know if I took some, I honestly doubt I'd be able to resist for long. It's that strong of a pull, and it's unconscious. I know I could put years into recovery, see a bottle of oxycodone in a friends bathroom or something, have a weak moment and take it without thinking. When it's out of reach, I really don't have urges. So the message here...not only make sure he gets rid of the pills, but also any connections he has to get more pills, so that this doesnt happen again

FT

Not long ago, another poster on this forum called oxycodone "The Devil's Poop". Ha! Made me laugh, but hey.

If I had a bottle of Percocet in my medicine cabinet, I would find a "reason" to take them. The pull is too strong for me right now. NO access is key. I told the story early on in my recovery about finding a pill on my bathroom floor that I could not identify. Was it oxy? Was it iron? Was it one my husband's medications? What was it?

Well, let me tell ya, I didn't care. I was only a few weeks out, like this guy. What did I do with this piece of dusty crap sitting on my floor? I'm embarrassed to tell you now, but I SWALLOWED IT. "Maybe" it was oxy, my stupid addict pea brain convinced me it was worth a shot.

It wasn't oxy. I don't know what it was. Sick stuff, but I did it.

That's addiction speaking, and I will be happy when I can look at some oxys sitting in front of me, with no one around to know what I am doing, and NOT take them. I'm not there yet. 5 months clean in 6 days, still not there yet.

FT

fs101

Some posts here have been really good, and talked about confronting your friend in an honest and brutal (and supportive) way. On one hand people will talk about the "evils" of this drug as if it had a life or any power outside of what we gave it... not true. The fault is not in the medication, the fault is that we are human and are frail and each have out own issues that brought us to this. We are not powerless over it (as the famouos quote goes) because it has NO power. As I have come along in my own recovery I have bgun to laugh at how silly I was to demonize a string of molecules. I have no need for opiates, and can function with my pain in other ways, but it took time to break the addiction and time to get my head feeling better.

IMHO you can not just cut off people when they are trying, give them a chance. There seems to be a tendency in a recovery community to just lump everyone together.

FT you seem like a wise experienced woman, and yet even though you talked about how weeks out you found a dirty scummy pill on the floor and took it, you are in recovery. Yet by your own definition that would be a relapse right, you wanted that pill to be Oxy, even if it was just a tic tac. Does that mean you were not in recovery when you snatched from the floor?

Juice your friend needs you, one way or the other. as others have said, a good honest question and maybe a help to look inwards may be the extra motivation he needs. I am not sure how strong a person has to be to go 8 weeks (including withdraw) and know that you have pills to take and not take them?

I guess my point is this: We have been there, but it doesn;t mean we know everything. Everyone is different both in their addiction and recovery. Although, our needs may be similar and so is our back stories, I understand I am not and expert. I should not judge and ridicule people from small sentences on a forum (I am guilty of this myself so please don't feel I am judgin anyone).

Recovery is a long road for many, and the way there is so convoluted. Take a look at Larry's thread, some of the stuff people (and he himself) said is downright rude... but he is where he is now, despite all the judgeing.

rant over, peace out

FT

Recovery is not a state of being, it is a lifestyle, a process. Damn straight I would have, and tried to, break my recovery by taking that pill. Just because it wasn't an oxy doesn't mean the intent was not there. I don't recall now how many days or weeks I was into "recovery," but in my opinion we risk destroying our recovery every day. My point was simply, "but for the grace of God, go I." I am no better nor worse than any other junkie where addiction is concerned. Addiction doesn't care who you are.

I don't "defend" my recovery like it is some possession. It is mine to have or not to have, and I can destroy it in an instant if I so choose. If that dusty piece of crap had been an oxy, I would still have continued on my path to achieve it, because and only because I do not provide myself with access while I am so vulnerable.

This is not a contest nor a judgment game. I state my opinions here, like them or not. I must admit I lose patience for addicts who continue to lie and use. At least be honest about what you are doing. I wasn't, for 2 years, and I regret what I did to the people who love me.

FT

fs101

I had a whole big post typed up but this sums it up



Thanks for all the sharing in here FT, I know you are coming from a good place.

Juice, your friend's choices are his, but I also have a good feeling that your support means the world to him. Good luck to you both, on this diffcult road.

thejuiceman

Yeah I told him my feelings loud and clear and basically told him not to be so stupid and week. I just decided to level with him and told him to quit making excuses and do the right thing. He got kind of sad but knew I was right. I told him I was there for him, but my recovery plan includes not using ever again and if he's in my corner and with me, then his does too. He says he's all in.

RobS

Hello all.... I have been reading for a month now and just wanted to say it feels good not to be alone. I have been clean for 4 weeks now and I feel great. The first 3 days were hell and each day got better. Glad to see all the support here and thanks for all your posts! I have no intention of ever using again and I'm with juiceman and his strong will against this poison. Thanks!!!

thejuiceman

Rob, that's awesome. Some people here (especially some of the angry ones) will tell you that will power isn't what does it, and this and that, but in all reality it is totally what makes it happen. You can go to meetings, councelling, find a higher power, etc, but ultimately it is your own choice and your own decision to stay clean or use again. It may not always be easy and you may need some of the things I just listed in conjunction, but if you are strong and determined, you can and will do it... I would say good luck, but lucks got nothing to do with it. Crush it!

fs101

Good to hear Rob, as Juice said that is awesome. 4 weeks is nothing to sneeze at (after all the WD sneezing anyway). Stay strong, you got this and always remember the things that make it worth it to never go back.

FT

Welcome RobS!

As you have seen, there are a lot of different personalities here, and you just gotta where it feels comfortable to you. Every time I veer from that philosophy, I start making people mad and sometimes get my hand slapped for being rowdy.

Ha!

Well, glad you are here. I, for one, have been shocked at how much coming here on this forum has helped me stay good in my recovery.

Ft

Dee74

welcome Rob

D