Jazzhero

Hello. I must first say God bless you all and this site. There is much good being done here and I am grateful such a place exists. I am new here and want to post a thought I am having. I am seeking experience and wisdom and truly hope this doesn't sound like a medical question. I have read the oxycontin withdrawal thread extensively and feel like what I am posing is appropriate. I aplologize in advance if this breaks a rule or gets me in trouble, but I am in need.

I am, through the grace of God, in my 12th month of alcohol recovery. In October of last year I herniated a disc. I have been on various doses of percocet since then. I feel I have been using them responsibly, never exceeding the doses and only doubling up when needed.

I had discectomy surgery last month, and have been on 20mg of oxycontin op twice a day,
4mg dilaudid twice a day, and 5-325 percocet 3times a day since. For some reason (probably due to my alcohol past) the medicine wasn't working very well and thus, the explanation for the high doses. I have been taking them as prescribed, no abuse, no doubling etc.

I woke up this morning and decided I did not need to take any of these any more as my pain is manageable, I hate how (but at times enjoy, which i hate)how these make me feel, hate where this is going, and have seen the depths of pain, hopelessness and sorrow through alcohol abuse. I tried just stopping this morning. The last time I had had meds prior to today was last night. 20 mg. Oxy op, 4 mg dilaudid, 1 5-325 perc. At 10 pm, 6pm, and 3pm respectively.

Well, I felt withdrawals starting to sink in at about 1100 am this morning and called the doctor. She said to taper everything down to one a day and then one every other day etc. I am afraid this will only prolong how bad I feel and fear I will stll have wd issues anyway. I ended up taking 1 oxy 20 op at 1 pm and one perc at 5 only because she said to. Well here it is 9:35 and I can feel wds coming on again.

I have dealt with severe alcohol withdrawal in the past as well as embeda (morphine) withdrawals. The morphine withdrawals were pretty much 72 hours of anxiety, pain, no sleep, etc. Horrible, but I got through it.

My thought here is, I want to stop cold turkey, am prepared to deal with it, and committed. I just was hoping if anyone else had an opinion on this idea. I don't want to drag the pill usage out. I know from experience that I am a cold turkey sort of person and just want to be done. I don't think dragging it
out is a good option for me. All the threads I have read say oxy cold turkey is fine but the dilaudid info is more fuzzy. Some places say do and some say don't. I want to make sure this is safe, I guess. Any advice or points in the right direction would be so greatly appreciated. Anyone with experience who has a thought for me could really make a difference. Thank you and again, I really think this site can change lives and make a huge difference for people. It sure did in mine today and now, I have a place where I can relate the the struggles of others. Thank you.





Does anyone have a thought or idea for me? Anything would

fs101

Well, The first thing I will say is to talk to your Dr. I am currently going C/T from Oxy as well and on day 3, it really sucks.

I can understand not wanting to draw it out, still, because of your past addiction (morphine) which is similar to oxy, I still say tell your Dr, you don't want to draw it out.

If you decide to go C/T make sure that someone knows, and is looking out for you and be responsible enough to get help if you need it, I expect it will be similar to your morphine wd's. I have only ever withdrawn from oxy.

Talk it out here, even if just for a few days, and I would think from your past you may also have stories or things to share here, I know I read almost every post in this forum and find a little nugget of truth in each one.

Stay strong and I hope that I can help

FS101

FT

Hi JazzHero:

I agree entirely with fs101. As long as your doctor thinks it is safe, I would chop back your dose as quickly as possible, because you are right about the withdrawals. As my name implies, I failed at tapering over all of last year after two major orthopedic surgeries back to back plus pelvic surgery. So, I needed the meds, but I also found that with my history of quitting alcohol over 20 years ago, it didn't take me long to hit high doses. My trying to taper only caused me to go higher, and not lower, on my doses, which I did by going to different prescribers who didn't know the other ones were prescribing.

You may get a bunch of exuberant posters replying to you that the "only" was is suboxone, or the "only" way is CT, but you will find the way that works best for you. For me, I ended up with a 3 day long "taper" down from somewhere around where you are down to none. I still felt sick during the first three days, and got even sicker CT. "Sick" and "sicker" means having so little energy you can barely move your arm while lying down, much less actually WALK over to the bathroom, having stomach cramps where you WISH you could pass gas but can't, only to have diarrhea or nothing at all in the bathroom, restless leg syndrome (restless body syndrome for me), continual sneezing, nausea and maybe vomiting, headache. Maybe the worst for me was the insomnia and racing thoughts, crazy thoughts, thoughts that you have to DO SOMETHING this minute or you will die. You won't.

I could say more, but the point is that you should plan to do nothing for at least a week. I had to go to an educational conference 3 weeks after I stopped. I made it, but it was hard. The first week is the worst though. In the second week, you will have some good days, and the third is even better. It gets better from there.

This stuff is so poisonous, it is a wonder we ever WANTED to take a pill. Most addicts don't lose that desire after stopping, at least not right away. Kind of like it was on alcohol, but worse for me.

It may be that you are not addicted, but only "dependent," if you have not sought out any drug seeking behaviors. But you will still go through withdrawal.

Keep coming back here. Stopping now will keep you from becoming an addict. You may have an addictive personality given the alcohol, but you don't need to let it continue to manifest itself in oxys.

Good luck, and we are with you.

Dopafiend

I have kicked both oxy and dilaudid cold turkey, they are similar in length and duration as far as the withdrawls go. The dilaudid was a little more intense in my experience.

There is no easy kick regardless of plan, taper or otherwise. The only question I needed to answer for myself was: Are you done? I had, had enough suffering from the pill, so I was willing to do whatever it took to stop.

I should also mention that I was sober for 21 years before being prescibed dilaudid for pain. This drug led to my eventual relapse, and caused me 2 years of sheer hell. Prescription pain medication is a pretty slippery slope for the addict.

Another thing I should mention is that meetings saved my a$$ during the PAWS. For the first 30 days I was at a meeting a day, and still continue to attend 12 step recovery groups regularly.

I wish you well...

Jesse7277

I would taper as low as you can get for about a week and then c/t it. No matter how much you taper your gonna have to detox. I went c/t from oxy, perc and dilaudid about a year ago. I was using them all day every day for 4 months. Large doses. On the nod most of the time. I quit c/t after tapering to a low dose for around a week and I was pretty sick for 10 days. After the first 3 it was more bearable. In my opinion and that's all it is the only way out is through. Don't spend alot of time looking for ways to make it easier. Not much will. The best cure for opiate withdrawal is time. Time between you and your last dose. Your in my thoughts and prayers. Peace and love.

Jazzhero

Well, i am mad at myself and the site. I wrote,what I thought was a beautiful reply that was 15 paragraphs long and I forgot my password, so it logged me out and erased it!
I will try to recreate, as killing time is my goal.

I am glad you posted taper as I have seen your work elsewhere. I like your words and I dont think I am a taperer either. So believe me, I was happy you showed up. Thanks to you and all that replied.

It is day 1 and a half and the wd's have set in like crazy. Just up and down and up and down. I agree with you taper, it is the racing mind and unrest that are the worst. It is like you want to do something but you can't get started and if you finally do, you don't want to do it anymore. Repeat endlessly for days. Minutes seem like hours and hours like days. I feel so absolutely horrible, but I knew this was coming.

On the positive side, I am grateful for this pain and sorrow! As it has almost been one year of sobriety form alcohol, I maybe needed a vivid reminder of why I quit drinking. I had one at six months with morphine and now this. It might be easy to forget what all the pain and misery felt like and this is close to it.

But the best part is, I have three weeks worth of drugs right here in front of me and all I can do is laugh at them. Trust me, I feel like hell. But because of my alcohol problem, I know where this road leads and I an not going down it for anything in the world. I didn't quit that to do this.

I decided to record myself crying and breaking down. It made me feel better to get it all out and i thought, maybe down the road, I could listen to how I sounded and how desperate I was and if I had an urge, I would listen in horror and either stop before I started or remark at how far I had come. I talked all about my struggle, how I got here,
how I didnt do anything wrong this time and still look where drugs get you. I Think this was a good idea. It was intense.

I have also figured out the lesson. Last (and first from pills) wd was he'll and I learned that my brain changed due to years of abuse and I cant let myself do this. Well, one would hope that I would have gotten it. I have just been in non-stop pain for six months and wanted it to be over. I knew somewhere that I should be careful, but I ignored and just kept going. I probably could have stopped last week and dealt with the pain. So, the lesson this time is: you cannot take painkillers ever because this is what they will do to you. So, I am happy to be here, even though I feel like hell.

I view my addiction like type two diabetes. I wasnt born this way. Everyone told me not to eat too much sugar (drink alcohol in excess) but I had to do it my way. I kept eating (drinking) away with no concern to my weight (health) and one day, I was very sick. I found out that I had type two diabetes (alcoholism) and I could not longer eat sugar (drink). It is a poison to my body that if I eat (drink) it, can kill me! But I love cake, pie and candy (fine tequila, fine wine, whiskey). Well, be that is may, it can kill you so you can no longer have it. Even one binge could kill you( and it could). I am proud to say I haven't had a drink in almost a year and I am in wd's, have a full bag of pills right in front of me, and couldnt care less, despite the hell I feel right now. I do not mean to offend anyone with type two diabetes, this analogy has been tremendously helpful to me.

So, thanks for the support. It really means a lot. Hopefully I get more "hang in there's" because they really help. When this is through, I will post for people needing the support I so badly do right now. I am not afraid of taking a pill. The support helps me hang tough and gives me something to look forward too.

As a bonus, guess what? Killed another 30 minutes writing this. It is all about killing time productively and positively. Every thing I have done today had been a deliberate choice to do something positive, constuctive, or beneficial to my life. I walked 4 miles despite how horrible it was because I knew I needed the exercise a maybe I could sleep better. Didn't want to do it, did anyway. That is what beating wd's and addiction ismall about. Taking action. It took me the longest time to learn what the cliches meant for me. They are there for a reason. Listen to them

God Bless you all and this site. To those of you who posted for me, a special thank you. Taper, we are very similar I believe. Fs 101, you must be on day four by now. I wish I was where you are. Stay strong. You've almost beaten it! I can't wait for this to be over. thanks.

Jazzhero

Thanks to taper, Jesse, and whomever for acknowledging you read this. Just knowing you read it makes a difference. Still struggling. Comes and goes. Thanks!

FT

Hi JazzHero:

I hope you are hanging in there and getting through this day. I remember being so pissed off at myself when I was withdrawing, because I knew I had done this to myself. Even though I started oxys because of surgery, I knew damned well I was abusing the oxys when I wasn't done taking them when the "typical" orthopedic patient had long abandoned them.

It still pisses me off. Why me? Why can't I just take pain medicine "as directed?" It seems MOST people can do that, can't they? Why can't I just be a "social drinker?"

I don't think anyone has the answer to those things. Maybe it's genetics. Maybe not. It matters little WHY, it just is. I just can't take opiates, and I can't drink. I do try to view my tendency for addiction as a "medical malady" of sorts, and I have had my doctor indicate that I have an "adverse reaction" to opiates in my medical chart. I'm sure I could talk my way out of that in a pinch, but at least I've put that soft hurdle in front of myself.

You are one brave dude if you have this poison in your possession while going through withdrawals. Oxys were so much more addictive to me than alcohol, I don't think I could have done oxy withdrawal with pills sitting right in front of me. I know I would have taken them.

I do get it, though. It may or may not be similar to what I did when I quit drinking. My ETOH beverage of choice was cold duck, and I always drank two bottles a day until I stopped, cold turkey. 20+ years ago. When I quit, I kept a bottle of cold duck in the fridge where I could see it daily when I opened the fridge. Knowing it was there and that I COULD have it if I wanted it, actually helped me. So many days, I decided I was going to drink it. But I had to "earn" it by doing something else first to make sure I REALLY wanted it. I would eat something, do something, leave the house, whatever. Usually eating something distracted me long enough to get ahold of myself and remember my resolve not to drink. I've told this story before, and I really don't know whatever happened to that bottle of cold duck, and I can't remember how long I did that.

In any event, here you are. You sound resolved to do this. That's what it takes. When you are really ready to make that one oxy pill your last oxy pill, get rid of them if you have any left. Access is the killer to your recovery.

Jazzhero

Thanks again taper. I really want to go to my doc and flush them right in front of him just because I think he has doubts about why I needed so much. I would love to prove him wrong and flush over 150 various pills right in front of him. Would be liberating think. If dont do that, then in front of my parents to assure them it is over. Not like they are worried about me abusing, but they are not used to seeing ne like this and they don't understand which don't blame them for. They are the best and just as a sign of faith to them, my addiction to alcohol, and me!

So, still brutal pain and anxiety but again, it is a reminder of the pain of self which is far worse than the pain of change. Still appreciate you keepin up on me. Thanks to everyone else for your support.

Jesse7277

Jazzhero

I recently relapsed again for around a month. Today is my fifth day clean. The detox was only bad for 2 days. The physical part anyway. The mental was kinda beating me up. Reading posts like yours reminded me where exactly I was headed. So thank you for helping me One thing that helped me was remembering that I'll never have to do this again. This can be my last detox. In 12 years of opiate addiction I've become quite familiar with the W/D. I'm getting a little older and don't think I could handle another relapse. So I really relate with what your going through. I can't stress enough that the one and only thing that's ever made me 100% better was riding out the storm of detox. It sucks but it's soooooo worth it when you make it to clear skies. Again I don't know you personally but your in my thoughts and prayers. Good luck.

FT

Hey JazzHero:

I check on here a couple of times a day at least. I'll be looking in on ya.

FT

Jazzhero

Thanks Jesse. I think the best thing imdid was tape myself just absolutely losing it. I was at my most emotional just crying uncontrollably and begging my current and future self to remember this moment forever. I tried to describe everything in detail about how I felt physically and mentally (the worst part for me). I have since calmed down and already previewed a few minutes. I can tell they will be helpful in the future. There is no way I could listen to that sober and take a drink or a pill. Don't know if this helps but I found it useful today. This has been the longest day of my life. It is like you feel every second with no reprieve. Not even for a second.

Your words meant a lot. It means a lot to know people who can relate are looking in. I will pray for you too. God has us in hands. But do we realize that? He is the only reason I was ever able to stop drinking so, I know where I put my stock. Thanks.

Jazzhero

Thanks to you too also taper. I am not kidding when I say it means a lot! gives me hope and something to look forward to. I get excited when there is a new post.

Here comes the night. The worst part. Savor all of this pain it is a lesson is how I feel. Thanks. Talk soon I hope.

FT

Hi JazzHero:

I never thought of taping myself. There were days last year when I tried to taper again and again that I would fall apart like that in my car. One time I had a prescription in my hand and drove to a pharmacy that was closed for another hour. Another hour!? How could I wait? I had run myself dry of oxys the night before and had suffered all night, and I couldn't WAIT to swallow that dose of pills. Every time that happened to me, and it was a lot, I SWORE to myself that THIS WEEK I was going to taper down so that I would never have to feel that way again. Well, I didn't taper. And I did it again. Over and over. Seems like my crying jags always involved pharmacies. Another time, the pharmacy refused to prescribe to me because it was "too soon." I had completely forgotten that I had filled a different prescription from a different doctor there a few weeks before, and I was taking too many pills according to when I should "need" more.

That panicked me big time, and I asked for my script back. But only after they had written all over it. I took it to another pharmacy and I could not BELIEVE they filled it.

The behaviors I exhibited to continue using were disgusting to me now. But I would do almost anything short of hitting the streets. I never did that, because I was good at convincing different doctors and dentists I needed oxys. A couple of different pain docs would prescribe what I wanted, but I was even taking more than they knew about.

Geez.

I hope you are hanging in there. In our depths of despair, we promise ourselves we will never do "this" or "that" again. Maybe if I had recorded myself and heard how horrible I sounded. For me, it was almost like I was two different people. I would "steal" from my own stash, figuring I would "deal with it" later when I ran out. I never had enough pills, ever. It didn't matter how many I had. It wasn't enough. Counting. Counting. No WAY -- I KNOW I had more than that. WTF? I'd spend the whole day sometimes wondering where the hell that extra ten pills I had went. I even fooled myself about how many I was taking.

Clean since December 15 and GLAD.

Hang in there. Check on ya later.

FT

Jazzhero

Thanks taper. You have a remarkable story. I am glad you shared it with me because I can relate with my own alcohol problem.

Restless night, but got through it. Woke up way early (not by choice) and went to the gym for healthy, productive exercise. Got home and the symptoms hit me like a ton of bricks. Crying again. One thing I am experiencing is a goal lack of negative feelings or critical (like critical of people or events) thoughts. I feel so vulnerable. It is nice to have my shield down. I feel like I am in touch with my blessings, friends, and family mentally and unable to produce negativity. It is nice. I keep recording. I know it will help later on.

Thanks for continuing tomlook in on me. Day two. Hopefully, almost halfway there. Talk soon. Have a good day.

Jazzhero

I just know tapering wouldn't have worked for me and that is why I was hoping you'd come along for me even before your first post because I read about when you were in the midst of your withdrawals back in December and knew you would understand. Almost like it was meant to be......thanks

FT

Hey JazzHero:

I am working at my computer all afternoon, and then I clock out about 7 pacific time. Hope you are getting through the day. Hang in there. Hey, I'm sitting here drinking hot green tea while I work. Got this thing where I gotta have something to DRINK next to me, but at least it's not ETOH! Ha!

FT

Jazzhero

What does ETOH mean? Forgive me. I am new to this. Thanks.

FT

sorry, ETOH is ethyl alcohol. Medical type folks use it more than others.

Jazzhero

I remember when I used to have to have a drink before ANYTHING I did. Always. And I would get so mad when something got in the way of me drinking. I missed important events because I knew there either wasn't liquor, or I would have to drive.

Thank God that is behind me. I don't even thinkmabout the juice anymore. I have had one brief craving in 12 months. I am lucky. The last three months of my drinking were a nightmare and nothing would make me want to relive that.

Still staring at the pills in front of me laughing at them. Symptoms much worse today. Mad runs, the worst anxiety, malaise, pain every where. But you know what? Didn't stop me from the gym this morning and another mile walk just know. God taught me how to fight this and I had power. It is just all about choices and positivity. This was not possible 13 months ago. Thank God.

Thanks for keeping up on me. Hopefully I am half way there.