OutofIdeas75

So, the doctor I had setup an appointment with for Suboxone actually refuses to prescribe the drug. How pointless was that? They acted like I was asking for a script to get high on...

So, here I sit..still dosing and still looking for a way out that doesn't include checking into a clinic or going through the withdraw hell. I need to keep my job, above all things, but I need to be rid of this addiction too. For the past 3 days, I've been getting sick a lot. Nausea...can't keep anything down. Water has the consistency of mercury... I don't get it.. I am dosing, yet I still feel like I am partially withdrawing... I have made a real effort to taper, though.

When I first posted, I was taking more than 49 lorcet 10-650's a day (7 at a time every 2.5-3 hours). Today...I took 28. If I can get down to 4 a day, and stay there for 2 weeks, I think I'll go cold turkey and just deal with it. Really not looking forward to it. If I could just get past the mental/physical detox symptoms, I know I will stay the hell away from them. If I just had a few weeks where I could lay in bed...with 0 responsibilities...I would be done...

Very frustrated with myself.

Timebuster

Maybe it's a blessing it didn't work out for you. Sub's are a b!tch to detox from too.

From what am reading here you almost cut your dose in half no wonder you feel like your in withdraw. I had a hard time detoxing myself, especially from oxy. I vividly remember feeling the same way you do now. I was so lost I didn't even know where to begin to get help and if help was even possible for someone like me. But, I wanted to get out of the hell hole I created. It took every ounce of strength within me to take action. If you get hung up on withdrawal, it will keep you using. For me, its about taking responsibility for my recovery. I got myself into that place and became willing to pay the price.

I totaly understand about you new job. But the same smarts and any length you used to get your drugs. Now use the same smarts and go to any length to get the help you need. Go see your primary doctor and get honest and have a heart to heart talk. Tell your doctor about your situation. Tell the doctor that you need a week off from work. Come up with a plan that will work for both of you...wink. ( remember a week off includes Sat to the following Sun which gives you 9 days to detox) And ask your doctor for some comfort meds which will help with the withdrawals. You could lay in bed...with 0 responsibilities...And you would be done.

Stop the racialization and justification and put your ego aside for a few minutes and get this done already. Your worth it.

Wishing you the best.

TB

micealc

You will have to cut down gradually with the help of an understanding Doctor..........It wont be easy...........but youll get through alright.
Check out my Story about Tranqualisers.........on Substance Abuse.
You will need counciling to get to the bottom of why you need Sedatives.
My reason was ACOA issues............this can be checked out on line.

Here it is again..........and one Drug is as bad as the other ,i've never took Tranqualisers,opiates, or anti Depressiants..........for over 25 years now and Im still here TG.


My Story with Tranqualisers

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Before I start my spelling is not the best.......progress not perfection.
But you'll know what I mean
I may be talking to myself as far as Prespription Drugs are concerned here yet,but you'd never know.
I will now Share the Devestating results of been left on them for so long.
My first interduction was way back when I was very young......you see my mother and others seemed to think I was annemick....short of blood.....or that there was something unknowen wrong with me .The reason was that I used to get Fainting spells quite often as a Child.This worried my Mother and she Brought me to doctors.............they prescribed me some Tablets to help with this condition.They helped for awhile.........but I did not become addicted then.I was about 8 or 9 at the time.
I used to do alot of traveling in cars as a child.........doing Irish Dancing.On these trips I used to get Weak,Car Sickness used to be a big Problem and an Embarrisment to me regurally.Mam got me Sea Legs tablets for travelling,which helped.

It was much later..........around 24 years of age that I started Drinking,i could drink normally for a few years...........then something happened...i crossed an invisable line and from then on I gradually needed it every day.
One mourning I was very sick,after a HARD NIGHTS Drinking............ I was sitting on the couch in our Kitchen,sweating,shaking,and did not know what was happening.
My Mother was very worried.........she said take one of these they might settle you.She gave me a small yellow tablet.....I later discovered it was valium.
This little tablet relaxed me and I felt pretty good in a short time.
Many times I was feeling gittery after drinking and I would ask mam for one of her Tablets and she would give me one.

It came to the time then that I was at My Doctor on mourning ,trying to get a sick certificate for work,and I told the DR that I needed something for my depression......anxiety etc.He prescribed me some Tranqualisers.....librium.
To make a long story short.............From then on I was Hooked.
I needed them....and progressed to stronger ones as the years moved on.
I used to use them to help with my withdrawels from booze.
I seen several Phy.........ists over to years,them trying to help me get better.It never happened,they could never figure out what was wrong with me...........I was at this time always in denial.
I had been a very sick individual for many years and I did not know it......and could do nothing about it..........Sad
Looking back I was Paranoid.........thought I could read other peoples minds.......thought I was the Second Coming of Christ.......Lots of crazy goings on.
I would lie and cheat to get my Fix.....I progressed to writing my own Doctors Prescriptions.
I was a Junkie.........Big time.
I was never a bad person............never violent.. a quite soul.
I was also an Expert on Prescription drugs............a tablet for every ailment........ that was me.One to Go one to Come one to Sleep.
I was in rehab 13 Times...the longest time was 6 weeks,it cost me £2,000 in 1972.....it took 2 years to pay it off.The Funny think is now looking back I drank 5 minutes after leaving rehab and me on AntiBooze.I thought in my mind nothing could kill me.. I needed my fix so much.
I also had a prescriptions for More Tablets in my pocket.
I had Picked up names of new Tablets I could Use while I was In rehab.
I was never going to face the demons I had faced in that rehab again if I could help it.
Anyway that continued for 25 years..........drinking and druging.
Then on one of my visits to rehab.........one of the Patients that I had become friendly with told me there was a young girl I shoud have a chat with that was in another part of the Hospital.
I was one for always trying to help people...as we ACs do.
So I told my friend Id see her and try and cheer her up.
When I met this Girl.....she was a beautiful woman ,but she seemed very depressed.
How could someone so beautiful be so depressed.
We became friends..........
After she left Hospital we kept in touch..........
we would meet every couple of weeks.as she worked in another part of the Country.
Eventually......I got the courage to leave my family of Origin as my father Retired and I could never stick been at home.......24/7 He always gave me a Hard Time.............I had a terrible Anger towards him at the time.
I went to live with my Girl Friend in the Big City.
We eventually had a child.........beautiful Girl.
We were not married ,so that was a "no no "at the time.
To make along story short again..we kept the baby....set up house..........created a little Family.

I was still addicted to Prescription Drugs,it was past of my life.
The Depression and anxiety was not getting and easier to live with.
No matter what Tablets I got, they were doing no Good.
I said to my New Dr that I needed something Stronger.so he made an appointment with a Neurolligist to see if he could figure what to give me for my NERVES.
He done out a new prespription............the same tablets that I was on.
What am I going to do.......I need them...but there no use to me anymore.
Imagine not a Tranqualiser in the World could Relax me.
No...............Im F%%ed.
I went back to my original Dr..told him the story..........
He said you need to get off the Tablets all together..........they are now causing the Pain............that they originally stopped.
It took over 1 year cutting down, bit by bit day by day.I eventually managed to go oneday without anything...........I felt Horrible......Suicidal....But I kept going day after day.
I never acted out the way I felt..........I could have killed someone or myself.
The Suicidal thoughts lasted about 6 months......I had to hide all sharp objects from myself.I was terrified of hurting someone,especially my little daughter.
I never acted out....not even once.........I loved my two Girls so much..........and they never caused any of what was wrong with me.
I used to go to a group of AAs in the vilage we lived in.........I owe them so much.they listened and listened to my cries for help.
Lots of changes have happened sense those days......
I am still living with that Beautiful i met in the Hospital that Faithful day.
That beautiful little baby is now 27years old,living with a Great Man.
I have a 22 year old Son... I get on great with,We played games every moment we could, boys games,football, Cars,Trains,Tractors,Play station,etc he loves me and Me him.
To put Icing on my life I have the most Beautiful 13 year old you could ever meet.
She will walk down our Main Street,arm in arm with me.
It will be Tough to let her go when the time comes.
But who said that anything belongs to me.......everything Ive ben given is a gift.

Good Luck micealc

SecretLife

Keep on keeping on... you're on the right track.
Hope it helps to just know that.

OutofIdeas75

I didn't make much progress today, as I have been sick and tired all day. Didn't taper any further...took 29 (3 7 at a time and 1 8 at a time...which sucks bad!! My tolerance is going up because I'm taking half as many doses now?!).

If I cut how many doses I am taking a day, why the hell is my tolerance going up per dose? 7 didn't allow me to "not feel sick", so I took 1 more...and that worked. Aggravating. I just want to get down to a manageable level before I go CT. I have given up on the Suboxone stuff. When I finally got a clinic that did it, there were so many "requirements" to be treated that it felt really pushy (excuse? maybe...). I just wanted a "quick fix" method to alleviate the W/D symptoms. I don't want to commit to once a week 2 hour psych sessions for a full year. I was a psych major at one time in College...so I know how this works and it's just not how I do things. I just want a 7 day out-patient detox so I don't build a dependency on Suboxone. That's all. I don't want to do NA, Psych meetings, Full Body Healing vitamins or any of that other stuff. I don't want to sing "kumbaya my lord" in a circle of people I don't know. I don't want anyone pulling the "Family intervention" crap on me either (I would flip out if someone did that to me).

glitter

Tolerance means needing more to get the same effect. Just because you cut your dose for a day or two or even a week or a month doesn't mean your body doesn't need more to avoid withdrawal. This is EXACTLY why tapering does NOT work. It just creates an agonizing prolonged physical withdrawal period.


Fixed your post:
Your addiction is in charge and it wants you dead. With as much as you're taking I'm surprised you not jaundiced and completely poisoned by the toxins your liver is unable to clear.

YOU my friend need to make a decision.

To borrow a couple of words from another member here at SR.....just sayin.

Impurrfect

(((OutofIdeas))) - I once abused the he!! out of opiates. I didn't want to do anything about it...tried cutting back, but that was it. I actually didn't even get sick when I would go without, but darned if I didn't use every chance I got. My job was very important to me. I was a nurse. I knew all about addiction (just as you say you know about the psych stuff) but it didn't stop me from abusing.

I not only lost my job, I lost my entire career. I quit the opiates..no problem. Six months later discovered crack...took me to my knees.

There were a lot of "I don't want to's" in my mind, too, but when it came down to it, the only one that mattered was "I don't want to be an active addict any more". Sure, crack doesn't have any physical withdrawals, but the mental ones are a *****.

I could be wrong, but I haven't heard of any outpatient opiate detoxes. I could also be wrong saying it sounds like you want the easy way out. I know I did. However, if it had been easy, I don't know that I would value my recovery as much as I do.

Every time you cut back, you're going to feel the withdrawals. How long do you want to do this? I, personally, would seriously check into ((Timebuster's)) idea - see your dr., see if you can get a week off, then quit and deal with the withdrawals.

The amount of tylenol that you're taking in these pills is really, really hard on your liver. This is your life, you're talking about.

I don't mean to be unsympathetic..I feel bad for everyone who has to go through any type of withdrawals, but the only other option, I see, is keep using and, to me, that's just not an option.

Hugs and prayers,

Amy

FT

Lordy, lordy. You guys said it all.

THANK YOU. OutOfIdeas75 needs a chorus of us, and I just want to chime in, "ditto".

Just sayin....

OutofIdeas75

Fixed your fix:
I feel you are putting me into a cookie cutter addict mold, and it just doesn't fit. I am being very honest with myself, seeking knowledge on how best to beat this and stay clean. I think your "post fix" was anything but helpful. It was just very assuming and condescending. I even admitted in my post that I might be using one portion of what I said as an "excuse", so I am self aware of the tricks my addict mind can play. I don't need an echo to change everything I say into some alternate mind state, where everything I say and do is a lie. Coming here has done nothing to convince myself to stay on the drug. I have been tapering and, even though you don't think it works, the rest of the medical profession seems to think it does help with the intensity of w/d symptoms. Going from 50 pills a day to 0 is a bit harder than going from 4 a day to 0. Yes, it's not pleasant. Is it better than the alternative? I don't know yet, for me at least. I'm hoping it does help. End result, even if you don't believe it, is that I will beat this addiction and I am being very honest with myself about my situation.

jazz66

you have to be sick of taking drugs more than enything ells to have a good shot at getting cleen ..{i was}

FT

OutOfIdeas:
When you speak of "I" and "myself," you have already spotted the "addict brain" in yourself, and you even illustrated what it does later in your paragraph. We all speak that way at times, but your speech is peppered with it, and it amplifies the reality of the situation, which is that you have not yet recognized that you are just one person, not two alter egos. You are allowing yourself that division to make it easier for your "self" to abuse drugs. Which YOU never would.

Ekhart Tolle put it to much better than I ever could:

"THE ILLUSORY SELF
The word “I” embodies the greatest error and the deepest truth, depending
on how it is used. In conventional usage, it is not only one of the most
frequently used words in the language (together with the related words:
“me,” “my,” “mine,” and “myself”) but also one of the most misleading. In
normal everyday usage, “I” embodies the primordial error, a misperception
of who you are, an illusory sense of identity. This is the ego. This illusory
sense of self is what Albert Einstein, who had deep insights not only in to
the reality of space and time but also into human nature, referred to as “an
optical illusion of consciousness.” That illusory self then becomes the basis
for all further interpretations, or rather misinterpretations of reality, all
thought processes, interactions, and relationships. Your reality becomes a
reflection of the original illusion. (Tolle, A New Earth)"

Glitter and Impurrfect had you spotted the minute they saw you. You are an intelligent guy, who it is clear has gotten his way in life by means of that intelligence, and also getting out of things the same way. You can Google all day long, enrich the mind, but you won't find the answers you seek there because you are looking to external means to fix your problem.

The real problem lies with you and the division within yourself. And the addict brain is winning if it has you convinced of the things you are saying.

As to the "the rest of the medical profession seems to think...." Ha! Just TRY and get the medical profession to all think one thing, but don't hold your breath.

The medical profession does NOT all think that tapering works. And I'm here to tell ya, going cold turkey from a high dose as opposed to going cold turkey from a lower dose is an individual response, depending on how toxic your body is, how healthy you are, how young you area, how FIT you are, a lot of things. So you really can't generalize that way. You really don't know, and neither do we.

I personally am more concerned about your liver than anything else about your addiction, except that to get clean is the deal any way you look at it. Opiate addicts can get clean and still live a healthy life. But, once you have destroyed your liver, you are mistaken if you think that the liver can recover from advanced cirrhosis. It can't. Liver failure means liver replacement. Because you are not yet jaundiced (not "cynical" but "yellow"), you may still have a shot at SOME liver recovery. Pull down your lower eyelids and look in the mirror under the bathroom lights. Jaundice isn't always obvious to the person until it extends to the extremities, but is easily seen in the whites of the eyes.

You scare me, dude. Logic doesn't permit this kind of acetominophen abuse, and you seem like a pretty logical guy to me in other ways, under the intensity

I mean all this in a very nice way.

Impurrfect

(((OutofIdeas))) - I, too, worry about your liver.

I'm all for people finding their own ways to recovery, but I'm still seeing "7 pills didn't work so I took another one and that did"...you're going to feel like **** tapering down. Taking another pill to make that feeling more tolerable is kinda like defeating the purpose. I do give you credit for how far you've cut down, but I see a long way to go and your poor liver struggling to hang on.

As far as the "medical profession" - ((Glitter)) is still a nurse, I was one for 12 years. There are good and bad doctors, just as in any profession. Just look at the thread on "pill mills" in FL.

If you're working with a dr. on this taper plan, then that's great. If you're just going by what you've heard, well we A's have a tendency to hear what we want to.

I do hope you get off of them and find a way to STAY off of them. As bad as withdrawals are, it's nothing compared to when something happens (good or bad, for most of us) and we get that compulsive urge to pick back up. Whether you find support here, from friends/family, that's when it's important.

When I got robbed at work, the 2nd time...pistol whipped by a 14-year-old who the next day went out and murdered a few people, I didn't want dope...I wanted SR and my friends here...logged on as soon as I got home.

That's what works for me....everyone finds what works for them. I wish you the best!

Hugs and prayers,

Amy

glitter

I just want you to know that my intention isn't to offend you or trigger ill feelings. I come from a place of love, concern and personal experience.

We suffer from the disease of addiction. I wonder if something did come up with your liver, would you be willing to do everything you can to try to make it better - even if you didn't like it....to save your life?

For me I had to become willing to do things I absolutely positively didn't want to do to take my life back from my addiction.

I, with all my heart, hope you make the decision to become willing to do whatever it takes before it's too late. It's up to you.

OutofIdeas75

I do not like being addicted to pain meds.

I do not like having it control my life.

I do not like having 0 control over my actions when I am using.

I do not like the cost, frustration and wild goose chases it takes to obtain my DOC.

I do not like to eat dry meatloaf.

I do not like stubbing my toe.

I do not like when people swerve left to take a right turn.

I do not like when people slow down to get into a turning lane.


I came to this forum for advice on how best to plan out the detox from pain meds. No one forced me here. This is not court mandated. I have the funds to continue using indefinitely. I am both concerned for my heath and my state of mind. I want to be rid of this before the end of March (1 month sober), but have real world concerns about being caught working during detox. I know the stages all to well and I know I cannot work during certain stages. My job and my obligations come first. I cannot work if I am dead, however. I cannot work if I am detoxing on day 2-6 (been there, done that...didn't work out so swell). I am limited on my window, as I work everyday...but have been on a project that allows me to work from home. Even so, I have to be clear headed (as clear headed as the drug allows at least) to perform my job functions. I am new to this company, so taking a week leave isn't smart. I cannot simply replace this job with another, as this job is the best job I have ever had. The pay and the experience is unbeatable at this point in my life. The opportunities are invaluable to my family and I.

Through research, the easiest way to do this is to start tapering. So far, I have had 7 today. It's over half way through the day. I would have had 25 so far. I don't feel the need to "catch up" and start my old dosing schedule again. So, I have progressed. No, I am not clean yet...but this is a journey. I didn't join and start posting on day 2...sorry I didn't. I joined when I made the conscious decision to stop, and stop for good. Collecting information is step 1 for me. Researching all my options to lessen the affects of W/D was important to me, as that is my #1 issue with quitting. Hell, the only reason I am using is to avoid W/D's. I've imagined a technology that scans the human body, then rips out all the toxic chemicals and replaces what should be there...kind of like re-imaging a computer. Just...zap. Done. Of course, that's not real and I have to do this the "hard way" no matter what. So, planning is my friend. If I stopped today, I would be on a plane flying to a project on day 4 (Sunday). Doesn't sound like a good move for my job. Being in front of a dozen people with a runny nose and a zombie like appearance probably won't go over well. If I hadn't screwed around with the docs about Suboxone, I could have just bit the bullet last Saturday and would be on day 5 today...making it in time to be semi-normal on Monday (or good enough). I made a mistake. Live and learn.

So far, my "hard plan" is to get as low as possible, then ride out the storm by staying asleep as much as possible. I'll be using bars, Valium and somas (alternating...no "cocktails"!) to stay asleep, as detox doesn't allow you to sleep naturally. The body heals 10x faster while sleeping, so it should allow me to detox easier. There is a reason that clinics have you drugged to sleep most of the time... Yes, I know taking bars and somas isn't a "good thing" either, but I do not have an addiction to either. I haven't had bars in almost a week, with no ill effects (unless that's the reason for my recent nausea issues). I don't crave them, only want them for sleep. I took 2 Valium last night to sleep. Worked great. I got 10 hours of sleep and went 18 hours without dosing pain meds. I started actually W/Ding, so I took a dose. After I work a bit, and start craving another dose, I'm going to take 2 Valium and take a long nap. When I wake, I should be starting to detox again. I'll dose then...and rinse, repeat...taking lower amounts each time.

Maybe I'm doing this wrong...maybe I'm not...but I haven't tried this before and any progress is still progress...

This site has been very helpful. The posters here seem genuinely concerned, which I am very thankful for. Even the ones that seem to have a "I did it, so should you! DO IT RIGHT NOW!" attitude...I am thankful for you people just as much. The NA hardliners...I know you're just trying to help. However, I have never responded well to pushy religious folks...on dope or not. NA isn't the only way, I know this. I am glad it worked for you, but to each their own. My relationship with God is mine and mine alone.

I have checked myself for jaundice. No signs...but I'm not a doctor either. I would like to have a liver function test done, and am looking into that today. I hope I have dodged that bullet... Thank you very much for giving a damn!

/rant over

glitter

Please please please if you do nothing else suggested, do this one little thing. My program of recovery utilizes NA among multiple other resources. I am so grateful for what was and is so freely given to me through meeting people just like me and working the steps with an incredible sponsor.

NA is NOT, repeat NOT a religious program.

When this is said as such a matter of fact by people not using the program, it may, just may turn others away from it who might really need it to save their lives. False preconceived notions can be deadly and people die in this disease every single day.

If I wanted religion I would go to church and read the bible. That's not what I want.

I want recovery so I go to NA and I read their literature. It's addicts helping addicts.

I really truly wish you all the best Ideas. I hope one day you find the freedom I have found. Life is good.

OutofIdeas75

So, you claim that believing in a "higher power" is not one of the cornerstones of NA/AA?

glitter

What kind of question is that? I usually don't nibble on bait.

However....

My belief in a power greater than myself is a constantly evolving and developing thing. Something completely new and mysterious to me. Honestly right now, my higher power is the good that lives in my heart.

OutofIdeas75

No one is trolling you (baiting you), as this is actually my thread about my planned recovery. I have no need to troll people here.

My question was sincere, even though I know the answer. Your statement was contrary to one of the teachings of NA/AA, which is a belief in a higher power. NA/AA isn't the only way to reach sobriety, although I'm glad it worked for you.

glitter

It's okay Ideas. I'll step away from your thread.

Again, wishing you the very best in your recovery.

Dee74

I hope we can keep things civil here.

Support comes in many packages, OutofIdeas - one of the things I love about this place is that very few people will pat you on the head and blow smoke up your butt...

if you have what they think is a bad plan they'll tell you about it....you won't get meaningless high fives here.

so in that spirit....

You need to decide what your priority is - is it your job/reputation or is it your life?

This is not a good plan....

...yet.

There's a lot of experience here - from people who've pulled themselves back from the very brink of destruction.

Thats some pretty hefty knowhow.

but...it's a free country.

You can absolutely ignore that advice if you like, you can ignore the advice you've gotten from doctors...you can totally run with your concept of what you think NA is and why it won't work for you...you can not check out SMART or any of the other non 12 step recovery alternatives...

You can do whatever you want...
I hope it works out.

D