Step 5 - All at once or an hour at a time?
Guest
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,271
Step 5 - All at once or an hour at a time?
I have a friend who is struggling right now, because her 5th step is taking a very long time. Her sponsor meets with her for about 1-2 hours every couple of weeks.
In my home group, we not only do three inventories (resentments, fear, sex) but we go back to childhood. So our inventories tend to be very long.
My sponsor took me through my 5th step over a long weekend, but it was draining. I think she would've preferred to do it an hour or so once a week, so that I could process what I was reading better. I sort of wish now that's what she did.
Then again, I remember it being really hard during the waiting period for her to be able to schedule a weekend to hear my 5th step. I was a mess because someone told me that if I didn't do this vital step at once, I would relapse and die. My friend said something similar tonight, bringing up the quote from the big book about this being a vital step. If action is key, and you're supposed to continue taking action, I don't understand the point in dragging out a 5th step or making people wait to do it.
I told my friend to read and apply pages 84-88 meanwhile, and to practice turning to God, and go to meetings. She said she is, and it's not helping her fight off her disease. Can anyone recommend anything else I can suggest to her?
I am very curious to hear other people's experience and opinions from that experience regarding if a long 5th step should be broken up into an hour or two per week, or done all at once, no matter how many hours. Obviously people are busy with their own lives so I'm curious how other people handle this. I did part of my 5th step at my sponsor's place of work. That was strange, too.
In my home group, we not only do three inventories (resentments, fear, sex) but we go back to childhood. So our inventories tend to be very long.
My sponsor took me through my 5th step over a long weekend, but it was draining. I think she would've preferred to do it an hour or so once a week, so that I could process what I was reading better. I sort of wish now that's what she did.
Then again, I remember it being really hard during the waiting period for her to be able to schedule a weekend to hear my 5th step. I was a mess because someone told me that if I didn't do this vital step at once, I would relapse and die. My friend said something similar tonight, bringing up the quote from the big book about this being a vital step. If action is key, and you're supposed to continue taking action, I don't understand the point in dragging out a 5th step or making people wait to do it.
I told my friend to read and apply pages 84-88 meanwhile, and to practice turning to God, and go to meetings. She said she is, and it's not helping her fight off her disease. Can anyone recommend anything else I can suggest to her?
I am very curious to hear other people's experience and opinions from that experience regarding if a long 5th step should be broken up into an hour or two per week, or done all at once, no matter how many hours. Obviously people are busy with their own lives so I'm curious how other people handle this. I did part of my 5th step at my sponsor's place of work. That was strange, too.
It`s ok to stay sober
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Central NC
Posts: 20,902
I know people who has done week long 5th steps.Every day for about 8 hours until they are done,with breaks.
I would suggest doing a marathon 5th step on Saturdays and Sundays until done
1 or 2 hours every few weeks seems kinda slack to me
when I did mine or hear someone else,I make sure we have no distractions or interruptions if at all possible
they can do it with you too
I would suggest doing a marathon 5th step on Saturdays and Sundays until done
1 or 2 hours every few weeks seems kinda slack to me
when I did mine or hear someone else,I make sure we have no distractions or interruptions if at all possible
they can do it with you too
Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 1,111
I would always suggest putting time aside for a long talk.
That's what the book suggests. It's what worked for me and how I take 5th steps with others if asked.
Now and then we've had to leave things and come back another day.
I would talk for 12 hours straight if needed. I think this works best. I've had people sleep at my house to wake up and continue next day.
P
That's what the book suggests. It's what worked for me and how I take 5th steps with others if asked.
Now and then we've had to leave things and come back another day.
I would talk for 12 hours straight if needed. I think this works best. I've had people sleep at my house to wake up and continue next day.
P
12-Step Recovered Alkie
Join Date: May 2010
Location: West Bloomfield, MI
Posts: 5,797
an hour is "a long talk" .....heck. 30 minutes may be a long talk in some people's opinion.
Dr Bob Smith (co-founder of AA) sponsored something like 3 new people per day over the time he was alive in recovery. Think they spent days doing 5th steps?
I don't turn the 5th step into story time.
So we had to get down to causes and conditions
I'm looking for the areas in my life (or my sponsee's lives) where I (we) have separated from God as the result of being selfish, self centered, dishonest or afraid.
I've tried make my sponsor "get to know me" with looooong 4th steps and my sponsees have done the same. My experience has been 4th and 5th steps that are hours and hours long.....or DAYS long.... are more exercises in more selfishness from the person who wrote it and/or exercises in playing junior therapist on the side of the person listening.
I've not had good experiences in doing long drawn out 5th steps. In the early days of AA they didn't take a long time either.
Anyone is welcome to do whatever they want though and if someone has good results taking forever to do a 5th step, rock on.
Dr Bob Smith (co-founder of AA) sponsored something like 3 new people per day over the time he was alive in recovery. Think they spent days doing 5th steps?
I don't turn the 5th step into story time.
So we had to get down to causes and conditions
I'm looking for the areas in my life (or my sponsee's lives) where I (we) have separated from God as the result of being selfish, self centered, dishonest or afraid.
I've tried make my sponsor "get to know me" with looooong 4th steps and my sponsees have done the same. My experience has been 4th and 5th steps that are hours and hours long.....or DAYS long.... are more exercises in more selfishness from the person who wrote it and/or exercises in playing junior therapist on the side of the person listening.
I've not had good experiences in doing long drawn out 5th steps. In the early days of AA they didn't take a long time either.
Anyone is welcome to do whatever they want though and if someone has good results taking forever to do a 5th step, rock on.
Guest
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 8,674
Wow- y'all sure spent a ton of time on the 5th. The way my sponsor and I did it was the bulk of the time spent by me, on the 4th (I had been seriously mulling this over before I put all to paper so my first inventory took about an hour and a half, writing solidly, and the others took about half that time). We did 5th in a sitting, maybe two hours. We did revisit later to make sure I had "covered" what I had outlined as of the time we did those steps.
I've been advised all along to be thorough and searching- but definitely not self-flagellating, or dragging things out so far that I'm looking under the floor boards and couldn't keep progressing through the steps.
I'll also comment that I did the steps slowly - I am almost 18 mo sober and I think it was Mar or Apr (so 13 or 14 mo) when my sponsor and I "officially" finished them (written parts and such) though I had worked through them and was living in 1, 10, 11, 12 in thought and behavior. Her approach is how to apply the steps to living our best lives - this has been a great fit for me.
I've been advised all along to be thorough and searching- but definitely not self-flagellating, or dragging things out so far that I'm looking under the floor boards and couldn't keep progressing through the steps.
I'll also comment that I did the steps slowly - I am almost 18 mo sober and I think it was Mar or Apr (so 13 or 14 mo) when my sponsor and I "officially" finished them (written parts and such) though I had worked through them and was living in 1, 10, 11, 12 in thought and behavior. Her approach is how to apply the steps to living our best lives - this has been a great fit for me.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Essex
Posts: 411
Goodness me, I'd struggle to both do, or listen to that. It sounds self-important to be honest....we're not counsellors, just other alcoholics....
What I learned from the process is it's about identifying patterns/default settings....Fini put it beautifully...the nature of our wrongs....the character defects that are my go to....and in the writing of a step four, I began to see these in any case, so it really didn't bear, or need, too much repetition for those to emerge during the dialogue of step five...and took no longer than an afternoon...
I wonder sometimes if there is confusion about what this part of the programme is for? It wasn't so much the events themselves that were under scrutiny, but what it told me about my character that was important, and the point of it. That along with willingness, and possibly one of the first acts bordering on humility, that I really am just a plain old human being with liabilities and assets that come along with that...
Too much focus on the events themselves, and it seems to me to be wandering down a path that is better fitted to therapy, than a twelve step programme.
What I learned from the process is it's about identifying patterns/default settings....Fini put it beautifully...the nature of our wrongs....the character defects that are my go to....and in the writing of a step four, I began to see these in any case, so it really didn't bear, or need, too much repetition for those to emerge during the dialogue of step five...and took no longer than an afternoon...
I wonder sometimes if there is confusion about what this part of the programme is for? It wasn't so much the events themselves that were under scrutiny, but what it told me about my character that was important, and the point of it. That along with willingness, and possibly one of the first acts bordering on humility, that I really am just a plain old human being with liabilities and assets that come along with that...
Too much focus on the events themselves, and it seems to me to be wandering down a path that is better fitted to therapy, than a twelve step programme.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
i dont think the big book say we will relapse and die.
but it does say
If we skip this vital step, we may not overcome drinking.
notice it say if we skip this step.
big book also says
We must be entirely honest with somebody if we expect to live long or happily in this world.
Rightly and naturally, we think well before we choose the person OR persons with whom to take this intimate and confidential step.
now, the big book says:
When we decide who is to hear our story, we waste no time.We have a written inventory and we are prepared for a long talk.
We pocket our pride and go to it, illuminating every twist of character, every dark cranny of the past.
personally i was ready and didnt care how long it took, but i sure wasnt going to do it an hour at a time over weeks.
i wanted to be free and decided, at the beginning, i was willing to go to ANY lengths for victory over alcohol, even if that meant spending an entire week doing the 5th step.
which it didnt. only a couple hours- no long drawn out stories and babbling about how jimmy beat me up in elementary school and stole my lunch money,caused insecurities and fears and all that unnecessary stuff. my sponsor wouldnt have put up with that anyways- get down to causes and conditions.
i dont read anywhere in the big book it being suggested to break the 5th step up over days or weeks either.
only thing i can suggest is your friend approaching sponsor and sharing concern. if sponsor doesnt want to get r done, find someone else to do the 5th step with.
its a simple program for complicated thinkers. the more complicated i make it the harder it is.
but it does say
If we skip this vital step, we may not overcome drinking.
notice it say if we skip this step.
big book also says
We must be entirely honest with somebody if we expect to live long or happily in this world.
Rightly and naturally, we think well before we choose the person OR persons with whom to take this intimate and confidential step.
now, the big book says:
When we decide who is to hear our story, we waste no time.We have a written inventory and we are prepared for a long talk.
We pocket our pride and go to it, illuminating every twist of character, every dark cranny of the past.
personally i was ready and didnt care how long it took, but i sure wasnt going to do it an hour at a time over weeks.
i wanted to be free and decided, at the beginning, i was willing to go to ANY lengths for victory over alcohol, even if that meant spending an entire week doing the 5th step.
which it didnt. only a couple hours- no long drawn out stories and babbling about how jimmy beat me up in elementary school and stole my lunch money,caused insecurities and fears and all that unnecessary stuff. my sponsor wouldnt have put up with that anyways- get down to causes and conditions.
i dont read anywhere in the big book it being suggested to break the 5th step up over days or weeks either.
only thing i can suggest is your friend approaching sponsor and sharing concern. if sponsor doesnt want to get r done, find someone else to do the 5th step with.
its a simple program for complicated thinkers. the more complicated i make it the harder it is.
~sb
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: MD
Posts: 15,967
4-6 or more hours, in one sitting....then followed at once with steps 6 & 7 with all the honesty, open-mindedness, willingness, and ernestness one can bring to the table......then sleep....oh, that's how I do it.
My sponsor has 33 years of sobriety and taught me to work the steps their way and it seems to be working well with others (ps it's in the big book, too)
Peace
My sponsor has 33 years of sobriety and taught me to work the steps their way and it seems to be working well with others (ps it's in the big book, too)
Peace
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: canada
Posts: 7,242
Pipefish, just to emphasize: the 'nature of our wrongs' is from the step itself, where it is " the exact nature of our wrongs", and it certainly wasn't me who put it that well.
This discussion raises for me the importance of choosing well who to share that step with...i chose a nun who was well trained in this.
It was kind of funny, really.....my step four i spent about six weeks on, and went to my appointment with the Sister entirely prepared to tell her everything . but she kept diverting from details to patterns, and a couple of times i asked her straight out if i shouldn't be telling her about these horrid things more specifically, and she very kindly just said " you know, fini, if you feel you really need to tell me all the details and every deed, or you feel a need for me to know all and sundry, we can do that. but it is not necessary and your willingness to list it all is what counts. so...how about we get back to pattens and such and you use details as examples? You okay with that?"
she knew how to go with me into nooks and crannies without hearing endless ultimately repetitive stories of acts and omissions.
we did this in a couple of hours, maybe two and a half.
This discussion raises for me the importance of choosing well who to share that step with...i chose a nun who was well trained in this.
It was kind of funny, really.....my step four i spent about six weeks on, and went to my appointment with the Sister entirely prepared to tell her everything . but she kept diverting from details to patterns, and a couple of times i asked her straight out if i shouldn't be telling her about these horrid things more specifically, and she very kindly just said " you know, fini, if you feel you really need to tell me all the details and every deed, or you feel a need for me to know all and sundry, we can do that. but it is not necessary and your willingness to list it all is what counts. so...how about we get back to pattens and such and you use details as examples? You okay with that?"
she knew how to go with me into nooks and crannies without hearing endless ultimately repetitive stories of acts and omissions.
we did this in a couple of hours, maybe two and a half.
DOS: 08-16-2012
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Central Iowa
Posts: 365
I jumped in the truck with my sponsor and we took the slow way, about an hour, to another town where we had lunch. Then took a very long way home and the whole time I talked and he listened and chimed in some but mostly listened. We also talked about hunting and some life stuff and some other guys in the group who were struggling. It was like 4-5 hours including lunch. It actually took much longer than I thought but I spilled my guts and told him a couple of things I've have NEVER told anyone and never planned to.
I don't know what happened that day or the day I wrote my 4th step but I can tell you that it was 5 years ago tonight that I had my last drink of alcohol. Tomorrow will be 5 years and I owe it to my sponsor and sponsorship line and taking the action of writing a 4th step and doing an honest 5th step with a sponsor who I trusted and believed in.
I don't know what happened that day or the day I wrote my 4th step but I can tell you that it was 5 years ago tonight that I had my last drink of alcohol. Tomorrow will be 5 years and I owe it to my sponsor and sponsorship line and taking the action of writing a 4th step and doing an honest 5th step with a sponsor who I trusted and believed in.
Trudgin
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 6,348
Pathway - good for your friend on working 4th step, many do not. My experience is the first time around I am attempting to deal with the boulders that are in my path. I am not writing War and Peace.
Tell another, not bury them in paper and ruminations.
Like the child learns how to ride a two wheel bike with a parent providing balance, a sponsor provides us support. In short order we are whizzing down the sidewalk with our new found skills.
You have shared your experience and your friend's frustration. Have you considered offering to listen to their 5th step? Perhaps there is a reason this is on both your hearts and minds.
Tell another, not bury them in paper and ruminations.
Like the child learns how to ride a two wheel bike with a parent providing balance, a sponsor provides us support. In short order we are whizzing down the sidewalk with our new found skills.
You have shared your experience and your friend's frustration. Have you considered offering to listen to their 5th step? Perhaps there is a reason this is on both your hearts and minds.
Guest
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,271
Tommyh
Thanks Tommy this was very helpful. (I need to step 11 my resentment about doing my 4th step at the woman's place of work. It was in public and definitely not conducive of a 5th step....) I'm hoping my friend will find someone who will be able to spend more time listening to her 5th step. If she asks me, I'll listen, but I don't feel comfortable offering.
paulokes
Thanks, Paul. It's helpful to hear other people's experience. I am not sure why her sponsor is doing this so piecemeal.
fini
Yes! That was my thought, too. There's so much hope in 6 & 7, and I think she's just eager to move along. I asked my sponsor about this, too, and she didn't seem to get it. She thought my friend was waiting for a "white light experience" from Step 5. She didn't see how torturous it is to be stuck in a painfully slow Step 5.
That makes sense. My home group, though, wants us to see that we've had the same patterns of thinking and behaving since childhood. That this is what alcoholism is, and how it is a part of every thread of our existence. It's not to make us feel bad.
DayTrader
Speaking from personal experience, there's no way I would've figured out what I needed to see from just a 30 minute 5th step.....
I know it was fast back then. I'm not here to debate the step work of those who do one long thorough 4th step vs those who do deeper 4th steps over the years.
Neither do we. Column 2 is 10 words or less. We don't add any detail, either, while reading because that's from ego and not from God.
Yup agreed but some of us needed to be more thorough in our 4th steps to really see the causes and conditions that started long before our drinking problem took hold.
Yes beautifully stated. Some of us I guess just don't see it as quickly.
I disagree. My long 4th step showed me just how quick to resentment I am, and just how disconnected from God I was. It was not selfish but helped me see things clearly.
Sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly...
Point of my post was more about how to handle a lengthy 4th step, and how to help my friend whose 5th step is going on for months.
August252015
Wow I wish I could've done a 4th and 5th step this way, but when I did, I didn't see what I was supposed to see.
I don't see it as self-flagellating, but just seeing how quick to resentment we were. I needed to see patterns clearly.
I've heard about this approach. I have no personal experience in it, though.
I would love to hear more about this, I am extremely curious. It sounds like you had a superb sponsor!!
Pipefish
Not self-important; just the opposite. I viewed my long 5th step as a very humbling experience. I was ADMITTING to God, another person, and myself the exact natures of my wrongs. I was seeing myself clearly, for the first time. I was experiencing self-awareness instead of pointing the finger at others.
Again, I guess some of us dense alcoholics like myself really couldn't see it so quickly and needed the repetition of it to see what I was supposed to see. My first 4th/5th step didn't work.
Again, the reason my home group's 4th step is long isn't because it is wordy. On the contrary. We keep column 2 to 10 words or less and we're not allowed to tell a story about a particular resentment during step 5. But we do have to write down every resentment that comes to us, no matter how trivial it might seem.
We just read the columns. We don't focus on the events. Definitely wasn't like therapy for me. My sponsor just helped me see my patterns of self-seeking.
tomsteve
Relapse and death can happen if we don't overcome drinking...
True it says "skip" but I think the fact her 5th step is taking so long is like taking 2 months to take a band-aid off.... I don't know how to help her and I am concerned for her well-being.
I think this is what's bothering her.
Well said. I think this is how my friend is feeling. She wants to be free already. The arch is there and she's ready to walk through it.
Can you explain this? I'd really like to understand. Didn't you have Jimmy beat me up & stole lunch money" as one of your resentments? But then you focused on where you were selfish, dishonest, self-seeking and frightened in that resentment, which are the causes and conditions?
Yes I agree. It doesn't make sense. I know people are busy but my friend is suffering.
She did ask her for more time and her sponsor said something like, "I don't have more time, go read 84-88". I will suggest she think about asking someone else. But I just hope she'd still get a complete picture. I don't know why, but people in my home group seem to treat us all like entitled little bitches when it gets time to do the 5th step which is inaccurate and unfair.
Yes good point tomsteve, thank you greatly.
I know... and my friend knows... something isn't adding up....
sugarbear1
LOL on the sleep part. Good that you got it all done in one sitting.
My friend has been trying so hard in her recovery. I've known her since she was new. She's done everything right. Besides her sponsor she likes to contact me, and I can honestly say there were only 1-2 times she ever called me with drama and so I listened and tried to help. Other times when I've been "very honest", she takes it like a grown up. I am so proud of her and this pains me to see her 5th step drawn out like this.
fini
This is a great story! Thank you for sharing it.
hellrzr
Beautiful!! This is the way it's meant to be.
Fly N Buy
Thanks Fly N Buy. I'm going to remind her how great she has done so far. Our home group does one 4th step. But I get it how other groups do it in layers. Either way it works. But I don't think what she's experiencing as a 5th step was how a 5th step was meant to be.
Well put!!!
Well said.
I know people who has done week long 5th steps.Every day for about 8 hours until they are done,with breaks.
I would suggest doing a marathon 5th step on Saturdays and Sundays until done
1 or 2 hours every few weeks seems kinda slack to me
when I did mine or hear someone else,I make sure we have no distractions or interruptions if at all possible
I would suggest doing a marathon 5th step on Saturdays and Sundays until done
1 or 2 hours every few weeks seems kinda slack to me
when I did mine or hear someone else,I make sure we have no distractions or interruptions if at all possible
paulokes
I would always suggest putting time aside for a long talk.
That's what the book suggests. It's what worked for me and how I take 5th steps with others if asked.
Now and then we've had to leave things and come back another day.
I would talk for 12 hours straight if needed. I think this works best. I've had people sleep at my house to wake up and continue next day.
That's what the book suggests. It's what worked for me and how I take 5th steps with others if asked.
Now and then we've had to leave things and come back another day.
I would talk for 12 hours straight if needed. I think this works best. I've had people sleep at my house to wake up and continue next day.
fini
that sounds really torturous.
my understanding is that the step is about the 'nature' of our wrongs, not a detailed list of every single wrong ever done in all our years of living.
DayTrader
an hour is "a long talk" .....heck. 30 minutes may be a long talk in some people's opinion.
Dr Bob Smith (co-founder of AA) sponsored something like 3 new people per day over the time he was alive in recovery. Think they spent days doing 5th steps?
I don't turn the 5th step into story time.
So we had to get down to causes and conditions
I'm looking for the areas in my life (or my sponsee's lives) where I (we) have separated from God as the result of being selfish, self centered, dishonest or afraid.
I've tried make my sponsor "get to know me" with looooong 4th steps and my sponsees have done the same. My experience has been 4th and 5th steps that are hours and hours long.....or DAYS long.... are more exercises in more selfishness from the person who wrote it and/or exercises in playing junior therapist on the side of the person listening.
I've not had good experiences in doing long drawn out 5th steps. In the early days of AA they didn't take a long time either.
Anyone is welcome to do whatever they want though and if someone has good results taking forever to do a 5th step, rock on.
August252015
Wow- y'all sure spent a ton of time on the 5th. The way my sponsor and I did it was the bulk of the time spent by me, on the 4th (I had been seriously mulling this over before I put all to paper so my first inventory took about an hour and a half, writing solidly, and the others took about half that time). We did 5th in a sitting, maybe two hours. We did revisit later to make sure I had "covered" what I had outlined as of the time we did those steps.
I've been advised all along to be thorough and searching- but definitely not self-flagellating, or dragging things out so far that I'm looking under the floor boards and couldn't keep progressing through the steps.
I'll also comment that I did the steps slowly - I am almost 18 mo sober and I think it was Mar or Apr (so 13 or 14 mo) when my sponsor and I "officially" finished them (written parts and such) though I had worked through them and was living in 1, 10, 11, 12 in thought and behavior.
Her approach is how to apply the steps to living our best lives - this has been a great fit for me.
Pipefish
Goodness me, I'd struggle to both do, or listen to that. It sounds self-important to be honest....we're not counsellors, just other alcoholics....
What I learned from the process is it's about identifying patterns/default settings....Fini put it beautifully...the nature of our wrongs....the character defects that are my go to....and in the writing of a step four, I began to see these in any case, so it really didn't bear, or need, too much repetition for those to emerge during the dialogue of step five...and took no longer than an afternoon...
I wonder sometimes if there is confusion about what this part of the programme is for? It wasn't so much the events themselves that were under scrutiny, but what it told me about my character that was important, and the point of it.
Too much focus on the events themselves, and it seems to me to be wandering down a path that is better fitted to therapy, than a twelve step programme.
tomsteve
i dont think the big book say we will relapse and die.
but it does say
If we skip this vital step, we may not overcome drinking.
notice it say if we skip this step.
but it does say
If we skip this vital step, we may not overcome drinking.
notice it say if we skip this step.
True it says "skip" but I think the fact her 5th step is taking so long is like taking 2 months to take a band-aid off.... I don't know how to help her and I am concerned for her well-being.
now, the big book says:
When we decide who is to hear our story, we waste no time.We have a written inventory and we are prepared for a long talk.
When we decide who is to hear our story, we waste no time.We have a written inventory and we are prepared for a long talk.
personally i was ready and didnt care how long it took, but i sure wasnt going to do it an hour at a time over weeks.
i wanted to be free and decided, at the beginning, i was willing to go to ANY lengths for victory over alcohol, even if that meant spending an entire week doing the 5th step.
i wanted to be free and decided, at the beginning, i was willing to go to ANY lengths for victory over alcohol, even if that meant spending an entire week doing the 5th step.
which it didnt. only a couple hours- no long drawn out stories and babbling about how jimmy beat me up in elementary school and stole my lunch money,caused insecurities and fears and all that unnecessary stuff. my sponsor wouldnt have put up with that anyways- get down to causes and conditions.
i dont read anywhere in the big book it being suggested to break the 5th step up over days or weeks either.
only thing i can suggest is your friend approaching sponsor and sharing concern. if sponsor doesnt want to get r done, find someone else to do the 5th step with.
its a simple program for complicated thinkers. the more complicated i make it the harder it is.
its a simple program AND already laid out for us in the big book.
sugarbear1
4-6 or more hours, in one sitting....then followed at once with steps 6 & 7 with all the honesty, open-mindedness, willingness, and ernestness one can bring to the table......then sleep....oh, that's how I do it.
My sponsor has 33 years of sobriety and taught me to work the steps their way and it seems to be working well with others (ps it's in the big book, too) Peace
Peace
fini
This discussion raises for me the importance of choosing well who to share that step with...i chose a nun who was well trained in this.
It was kind of funny, really.....my step four i spent about six weeks on, and went to my appointment with the Sister entirely prepared to tell her everything . but she kept diverting from details to patterns, and a couple of times i asked her straight out if i shouldn't be telling her about these horrid things more specifically, and she very kindly just said " you know, fini, if you feel you really need to tell me all the details and every deed, or you feel a need for me to know all and sundry, we can do that. but it is not necessary and your willingness to list it all is what counts. so...how about we get back to pattens and such and you use details as examples? You okay with that?"
she knew how to go with me into nooks and crannies without hearing endless ultimately repetitive stories of acts and omissions.
we did this in a couple of hours, maybe two and a half.
It was kind of funny, really.....my step four i spent about six weeks on, and went to my appointment with the Sister entirely prepared to tell her everything . but she kept diverting from details to patterns, and a couple of times i asked her straight out if i shouldn't be telling her about these horrid things more specifically, and she very kindly just said " you know, fini, if you feel you really need to tell me all the details and every deed, or you feel a need for me to know all and sundry, we can do that. but it is not necessary and your willingness to list it all is what counts. so...how about we get back to pattens and such and you use details as examples? You okay with that?"
she knew how to go with me into nooks and crannies without hearing endless ultimately repetitive stories of acts and omissions.
we did this in a couple of hours, maybe two and a half.
hellrzr
I jumped in the truck with my sponsor and we took the slow way, about an hour, to another town where we had lunch. Then took a very long way home and the whole time I talked and he listened and chimed in some but mostly listened. We also talked about hunting and some life stuff and some other guys in the group who were struggling. It was like 4-5 hours including lunch. It actually took much longer than I thought but I spilled my guts and told him a couple of things I've have NEVER told anyone and never planned to.
I don't know what happened that day or the day I wrote my 4th step but I can tell you that it was 5 years ago tonight that I had my last drink of alcohol. Tomorrow will be 5 years and I owe it to my sponsor and sponsorship line and taking the action of writing a 4th step and doing an honest 5th step with a sponsor who I trusted and believed in.
I don't know what happened that day or the day I wrote my 4th step but I can tell you that it was 5 years ago tonight that I had my last drink of alcohol. Tomorrow will be 5 years and I owe it to my sponsor and sponsorship line and taking the action of writing a 4th step and doing an honest 5th step with a sponsor who I trusted and believed in.
Fly N Buy
Pathway - good for your friend on working 4th step, many do not. My experience is the first time around I am attempting to deal with the boulders that are in my path. I am not writing War and Peace.
Tell another, not bury them in paper and ruminations.
Like the child learns how to ride a two wheel bike with a parent providing balance, a sponsor provides us support. In short order we are whizzing down the sidewalk with our new found skills.
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Thanks everyone for your replies. :-)
I have great news!! My friend started going to other meetings. She meditated on all this stuff going on with her 4th and 5th step. She felt guided to ask someone new to sponsor her at one of these other meetings.
She did, and she had a great discussion about Steps 4 and 5 with her. She also told her sponsor about this, and she's happy for her too. She sounds so incredibly hopeful now!! I am happy for her.
I have great news!! My friend started going to other meetings. She meditated on all this stuff going on with her 4th and 5th step. She felt guided to ask someone new to sponsor her at one of these other meetings.
She did, and she had a great discussion about Steps 4 and 5 with her. She also told her sponsor about this, and she's happy for her too. She sounds so incredibly hopeful now!! I am happy for her.
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Originally Posted by paulokes 
Heard another 5th step today. 12 hours with breaks for coffee, nicotine and appropriate changes of conversation.
It's always a massive privilege...blessed to be sober today
P
It's always a massive privilege...blessed to be sober today
P
One day I hope God grants me that privilege to be witness to a 5th step and help someone.
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