Step 4
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 123
Step 4
So I am sponsoring someone. I got him through the first three steps today and gave him a 4th step outline. I am hoping he does it. Most people don't. The last guy I sponsored fell off on the 4th step. It's the first step that really takes any work or honesty. I did mine right away but I know that most people don't. I don't want to pressure this guy too much but I don't want to see him procrastinate. Any advice on this?
Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Mgm, AL
Posts: 1,000
Accountability
When I take sponsors through the fourth step I break it into two parts. Capturing the who, what, and why of their resentments first, and writing an example of my own to explain. We discuss, and then I ask him to call (or meet f2f ) the next day with any questions. At that point, if he has begun the work, we set a date to tackle the second part.
I didn't have a perfect Fourth Step and nobody else has, either. The point is to learn about the FEAR, how to identify it, and how to manage it with the spiritual principles the steps develops. This way, they have targets for completion and are encouraged to do their 4th, not the Perfect 4th.
There are many ways to go through the steps. Each works if the sponsee works it.
Draw upon your own journey and leave the rest in God's hands. You carry the message; He carries the drunk. If you will ask....
I didn't have a perfect Fourth Step and nobody else has, either. The point is to learn about the FEAR, how to identify it, and how to manage it with the spiritual principles the steps develops. This way, they have targets for completion and are encouraged to do their 4th, not the Perfect 4th.
There are many ways to go through the steps. Each works if the sponsee works it.
Draw upon your own journey and leave the rest in God's hands. You carry the message; He carries the drunk. If you will ask....
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 123
I was taught to do three sections, resentment, fear, and sex inventory. I told him that there wasn't anything that he did that I didn't do and that one key point about a fourth step is that it helps people identify with others in the rooms. I came to AA thinking I was the only one who did the things that I did but after doing my fourth step I realized I was pretty tame compared to some and wasn't as bad as I thought I was.
paradox
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 665
I was one of those who procrastinated on my 4th step . . .
I heard others in the rooms share something like this:
My sponsor didn't say this.
It was good that he didn't.
It wouldn't have been true.
I did worse . . .
I think we need to be careful what we promise sponsees.
In the end someone told me that getting on with my step 4 was the easier softer way.
I believed him.
He was right.
I heard others in the rooms share something like this:
Originally Posted by PAC86 
. . . I told him that there wasn't anything that he did that I didn't do . . .
It was good that he didn't.
It wouldn't have been true.
I did worse . . .
I think we need to be careful what we promise sponsees.
In the end someone told me that getting on with my step 4 was the easier softer way.
I believed him.
He was right.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Colchester, England
Posts: 104
I was a procrastinator. I think I dawdled for a couple of years. I had a very patient sponsor, though it came to the point where she told me if I didn't get my skates on, we'd go back to step 1. That was the push I needed. And when it came to doing the 5th step, I realised why I'd taken so long with my 4th. Fear. Fear of admitting to another person the wrongs I'd done. So remind them that they're not termimally unique and to not be afraid. And that the truth will set them free.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 123
My sponsor informed me that I was going to drink and die if I didn't go through the steps. Fortunately, I took his advice. I just wanted to get it done. However, I discovered AA at just the right time in my life. I had tried everything I could think of before I got there. My first sponsor was crazier than me and I was very comfortable telling him my dirty little secrets.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 123
People in AA in the town were I got sober tended to go through the steps quickly. However, I've noticed that they typically didn't last very long. I think that's because too much pressure was put on them in the early phases of recovery. People in my current area do not go through the steps as fast but seem to last a lot longer. In fact, relapses are uncommon in my area.
It`s ok to stay sober
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Central NC
Posts: 20,902
I am on my 4th sponsor ,firsr one got drunk,2 and 3 dies.
The present sponsor met with me weekly to look at my 4th step,to see if i was indeed making progress and was on the right track
we always prayed first too.
Ilearned by his example there
we covered the 3 sections like you did.
resentment,fear and sex
he made sure I knew I could,and probably had multiple resentments for people.
I had over 500 resentments
so it was important to have a honest list,leaving nothing out.
I came out of the 4th step with a sex ideal too.First sponsor to have me do that.
I would say do as my sponsor did,meet weekly,help him get a good grasp of what he is to do and don`t let him flounder there too long or he may get drunk
The present sponsor met with me weekly to look at my 4th step,to see if i was indeed making progress and was on the right track
we always prayed first too.
Ilearned by his example there
we covered the 3 sections like you did.
resentment,fear and sex
he made sure I knew I could,and probably had multiple resentments for people.
I had over 500 resentments
so it was important to have a honest list,leaving nothing out.
I came out of the 4th step with a sex ideal too.First sponsor to have me do that.
I would say do as my sponsor did,meet weekly,help him get a good grasp of what he is to do and don`t let him flounder there too long or he may get drunk
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 123
I spoke to him today. He said he started but it was hard. I told it's only as hard as you make it. That's the truth to. A 4th step is painless. It just doesn't seem like that before you do it. That's just my experience. When I did one the first time my rational was that I could either try AA or kill myself. Those were my options. I chose AA obviously. Its been awkward and scary but no where near as bad as I thought it might be.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 82
If the sponsee is a reader, perhaps let him use the following links (bottom) to get a deeper sense of the process. I don't agree with everything, but I also learned some new stuff.
I know that I had great fear, not only for what I *did* know about myself in words/actions, but because there was a sense of 'untapped evil' that I had no desire to look at.
I did my 4th Step in an online AA group, meaning I 'peeled' reactions that I had when reading the posts of others, and sent them to the group for feedback.
I would *not* have done the 4th Step on my own, alone with my 'self'. I was afraid of my 'self' - the unrelenting critical part of me. (Of course, I didn't see this separation at first - I just felt the intense fear.)
Later I could see that I could barely stand to be in the same room with my self - there was always a diversion of some sort between us. A large part of alcoholism was definitely an escape from my 'self'/the critical voice. The other part an escape from 'you' (everybody else's 'selves' that could be critical at any moment).
It was one thing to allow the Process to shatter my defenses into pieces - and quite another not to have assurance that someone was going to help me get put back together in some new form.
Once I got the hang of it, felt the relief/ healing, and the fear drastically reduced, I was okay to proceed more independently - with only checks from time to time, or ask for help to find a string to pull.
The one area that is not stressed in the BB but was critical, for me, was that *thoughts matter*. Turned out, I didn't watch a steady diet of cop shows because I just wanted to root for the 'good guys'...I often identified most with the angst of the 'bad guys'. Cops shows (for me) were often a vicarious experience; one of the many ways I 'vented' the rage within. I don't watch them today; however, I didn't just 'up and quit.' I watched with Awareness first, and the desire to watch began to fall away.
When it was shared that 'sarcasm' was a vent for rage, I knew I was in trouble. I couldn't speak nor write without dripping buckets of the stuff. I considered sarcasm an art form - one I strove to excel in. There was one other guy in the AA email group who was better at sarcasm than I was......I wanted what he had, and was willing to practice diligently to get it.
Sarcasm having been brought to my attention, my sharing dropped off about 90% because I became so self-conscious that others 'saw my flaw' when I'd write. Someone noticed and took the time to share the solution.
The object was not to 'hide', but to keep writing the way I had been - only now with Awareness. Re-read my own posts and discover the value of, "what I say is what I most need to hear". Look for the onions and peel them. Change comes from within, and cosmetically adopting another way of writing (or not writing at all) wasn't going to 'renew my heart and mind'. The group accepted me just fine when where I was....they would support me now as I was grew in this area.
One of the hardest parts of my 5th Step was sexual fantasies 'outside the norm'. This part I did with a psychologist because I didn't just want the healing from telling another person, but also (if possible) to understand where they came from/meaning. Before extended alcoholism, I'd never have know I was capable of thinking such things.
A few months before I got sober, I began "cross over" into some strange part of my mind. I still craved alcohol but came to exceedingly dread 'sliding into the muck'.
For a long while in AA, I stayed sober because I had such great desire not to return to 'that place' in drunkenness. But as I healed, as this new world opened, one day I had an epiphany: I was no longer staying sober because I feared going back to the darkness; I was staying sober because I didn't want to miss the next amazing thing ahead. It was a slice of freedom, one I still enjoy today.
I didn't have 'a' sponsor. Anyone who had a suggestion of how to do/think differently than my old thinking/doing was my sponsor for that onion. This led to being told that I could never sponsor f2f because I'd never been sponsored f2f or online by one person, in the regular sense. I have accepted that, but wonder sometimes if is fully true. Dunno.
Knowing what I know, from experience: I would not ask anyone to do the 4th alone. I'd set aside two hours or so on a Saturday for a month for working on the 4th together (sharing es&h of how I got to the bottom of an issue, if asked). That when the session was over, not to think on it again until the next week EXCEPT: if anything popped up that should go on the list, jot it/them down - and bring the paper to the next session. I'd also share the shame/guilt mind tool and ask them make liberal use of it during the week.
In early sobriety, there was a man and wife in Canada who held workshops for 1-5 Steps each weekend for the newbies (there were facilitators for each Step). It always sounded like a neat idea, to me. And Cliff said it kept him green as some sponsees would tap into resentments or such that he'd hadn't remembered.
Best to all,
PJ
4th Step Tips
A.A. Recovery -- 4th Step Tips
The Fourth Step Inventories - (Barefoot Bill L.)
https://www.google.com/?
gws_rd=ssl#q=the+fourth+step+inventories%2C+%22the +most+important+part+of+taking+any+step%22
Intro. to Working the Steps (the "Set-Aside Prayer" is pretty neat at the bottom of the page.)
A.A. Way of Life - Intro to "Working the Steps"
4th Step w/ Forms
"A.A. Way of Life - Working Step 4"
I know that I had great fear, not only for what I *did* know about myself in words/actions, but because there was a sense of 'untapped evil' that I had no desire to look at.
I did my 4th Step in an online AA group, meaning I 'peeled' reactions that I had when reading the posts of others, and sent them to the group for feedback.
I would *not* have done the 4th Step on my own, alone with my 'self'. I was afraid of my 'self' - the unrelenting critical part of me. (Of course, I didn't see this separation at first - I just felt the intense fear.)
Later I could see that I could barely stand to be in the same room with my self - there was always a diversion of some sort between us. A large part of alcoholism was definitely an escape from my 'self'/the critical voice. The other part an escape from 'you' (everybody else's 'selves' that could be critical at any moment).
It was one thing to allow the Process to shatter my defenses into pieces - and quite another not to have assurance that someone was going to help me get put back together in some new form.
Once I got the hang of it, felt the relief/ healing, and the fear drastically reduced, I was okay to proceed more independently - with only checks from time to time, or ask for help to find a string to pull.
The one area that is not stressed in the BB but was critical, for me, was that *thoughts matter*. Turned out, I didn't watch a steady diet of cop shows because I just wanted to root for the 'good guys'...I often identified most with the angst of the 'bad guys'. Cops shows (for me) were often a vicarious experience; one of the many ways I 'vented' the rage within. I don't watch them today; however, I didn't just 'up and quit.' I watched with Awareness first, and the desire to watch began to fall away.
When it was shared that 'sarcasm' was a vent for rage, I knew I was in trouble. I couldn't speak nor write without dripping buckets of the stuff. I considered sarcasm an art form - one I strove to excel in. There was one other guy in the AA email group who was better at sarcasm than I was......I wanted what he had, and was willing to practice diligently to get it.
Sarcasm having been brought to my attention, my sharing dropped off about 90% because I became so self-conscious that others 'saw my flaw' when I'd write. Someone noticed and took the time to share the solution.
The object was not to 'hide', but to keep writing the way I had been - only now with Awareness. Re-read my own posts and discover the value of, "what I say is what I most need to hear". Look for the onions and peel them. Change comes from within, and cosmetically adopting another way of writing (or not writing at all) wasn't going to 'renew my heart and mind'. The group accepted me just fine when where I was....they would support me now as I was grew in this area.
One of the hardest parts of my 5th Step was sexual fantasies 'outside the norm'. This part I did with a psychologist because I didn't just want the healing from telling another person, but also (if possible) to understand where they came from/meaning. Before extended alcoholism, I'd never have know I was capable of thinking such things.
A few months before I got sober, I began "cross over" into some strange part of my mind. I still craved alcohol but came to exceedingly dread 'sliding into the muck'.
For a long while in AA, I stayed sober because I had such great desire not to return to 'that place' in drunkenness. But as I healed, as this new world opened, one day I had an epiphany: I was no longer staying sober because I feared going back to the darkness; I was staying sober because I didn't want to miss the next amazing thing ahead. It was a slice of freedom, one I still enjoy today.
I didn't have 'a' sponsor. Anyone who had a suggestion of how to do/think differently than my old thinking/doing was my sponsor for that onion. This led to being told that I could never sponsor f2f because I'd never been sponsored f2f or online by one person, in the regular sense. I have accepted that, but wonder sometimes if is fully true. Dunno.
Knowing what I know, from experience: I would not ask anyone to do the 4th alone. I'd set aside two hours or so on a Saturday for a month for working on the 4th together (sharing es&h of how I got to the bottom of an issue, if asked). That when the session was over, not to think on it again until the next week EXCEPT: if anything popped up that should go on the list, jot it/them down - and bring the paper to the next session. I'd also share the shame/guilt mind tool and ask them make liberal use of it during the week.
In early sobriety, there was a man and wife in Canada who held workshops for 1-5 Steps each weekend for the newbies (there were facilitators for each Step). It always sounded like a neat idea, to me. And Cliff said it kept him green as some sponsees would tap into resentments or such that he'd hadn't remembered.
Best to all,
PJ
4th Step Tips
A.A. Recovery -- 4th Step Tips
The Fourth Step Inventories - (Barefoot Bill L.)
https://www.google.com/?
gws_rd=ssl#q=the+fourth+step+inventories%2C+%22the +most+important+part+of+taking+any+step%22
Intro. to Working the Steps (the "Set-Aside Prayer" is pretty neat at the bottom of the page.)
A.A. Way of Life - Intro to "Working the Steps"
4th Step w/ Forms
"A.A. Way of Life - Working Step 4"
Grateful
Join Date: May 2013
Location: NC
Posts: 1,763
My sponsor gave me a time frame in which to complete my 4th and we set a date to do our 5th. Of course he was there to help answer questions and guide me during that time, but I think having that time frame in which to complete my 4th gave me the sense of urgency I needed in order not to procrastinate. It helped that I was motivated to follow through this time as I knew what hadn't worked in the past and the results of not taking this step. I had done countless steps 1-3 in the past, but in reality I never truly took the first 3 steps until I took steps 4-9.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: canada
Posts: 7,242
I told it's only as hard as you make it. That's the truth to. A 4th step is painless. It just doesn't seem like that before you do it. That's just my experience.
PAC,
my experience was quite different. it was painful, and harder than i thought.
i'm fairly introspective and had expected to have no difficulties with this step.
but the "my part" stumped me for a lot of my resentments, and when i started seeing more clearly and saw and understood my part, then it didn't get exactly less painful
just sharing, since your sponsee'e experience might be quite different from yours for this step.
PAC,
my experience was quite different. it was painful, and harder than i thought.
i'm fairly introspective and had expected to have no difficulties with this step.
but the "my part" stumped me for a lot of my resentments, and when i started seeing more clearly and saw and understood my part, then it didn't get exactly less painful
just sharing, since your sponsee'e experience might be quite different from yours for this step.
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 700
I use the big book as a guide. I ask sponsee's to give me an afternoon. We meet, use a simple Big Book 4th step guide worksheets (there are many out there), I tell them to keep it simple and just honestly answer the questions the book asks. I am there if they need any help. After 4-5 hours they go home with a 4th step that is 95% complete. Then we schedule the 5th step a week later. that gives them 7 days to finish the remaining 5%.
Using that method I have more guys complete the steps than don't.
Using that method I have more guys complete the steps than don't.
Recovering ostrich
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Tampa Bay, Florida
Posts: 2,551
It took me about 9 months to get through it, my sponsor was very patient with me. At the end of the day, you have no control over whether or not he does it. If he dawdles, why pressure him? It can be painful for a lot of people.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 82
I'd be leery of an overly 'patient' sponsor when it comes to the 4th-5th Steps - they aren't the ones sometimes hanging onto sobriety by a thread or two.
The purpose and goal of the 4th-5th Step is to drop the shame/guilt/remorse/regret/self-criticism, on and on, so that the chances of remaining sober are greatly increased, as well as (hopefully) discovering the ultimate Spiritual Experience: conscious contact with the Great Reality within.
No one can *make* anyone do the 4th-5th, but being clear about the purpose and importance of these Steps for longevity and quality of sobriety can be an encouragement to many. Not to mention that if one does have the Spiritual Experience, sobriety continues on at a whole new level.
But if someone didn't experience the great unburdening themselves (Forgiveness from Within), then I can see why they wouldn't attach due importance of this Process with sponsees, however unfortunate those cases might be.
Best to All,
PJ
The purpose and goal of the 4th-5th Step is to drop the shame/guilt/remorse/regret/self-criticism, on and on, so that the chances of remaining sober are greatly increased, as well as (hopefully) discovering the ultimate Spiritual Experience: conscious contact with the Great Reality within.
No one can *make* anyone do the 4th-5th, but being clear about the purpose and importance of these Steps for longevity and quality of sobriety can be an encouragement to many. Not to mention that if one does have the Spiritual Experience, sobriety continues on at a whole new level.
But if someone didn't experience the great unburdening themselves (Forgiveness from Within), then I can see why they wouldn't attach due importance of this Process with sponsees, however unfortunate those cases might be.
Best to All,
PJ
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