keithj

Not to pick nits, and only because I think it's an important distinction, the closed meeting card states "If you think you have a problem with alcohol, you are welcome to attend this meeting."

Even at a closed meeting, persons that are unsure of whether or not they qualify as AA members or as AA-defined 'alcoholics' are welcome to attend. And someone is an AA member when they say they are, without any additional qualification needed.

mfanch is a great example of making AA as it iswork for him, just like everyone is welcome to do. What we cannot do, however (in keeping with Tradition 1), is demand that AA change so that it better suits me. I have to do the changing so that I can fit in, not the other way around.

MIRecovery

I go to 12 step meetings for people that are addicted to 12 step meetings

desypete

aa is what it is and its always got to stay that way

the only thing wrong in aa is when someone has a good idea that means trying to change aa

the members of the past have tried all sorts of changing aa around and its always caused more problems than they ever solved hence we have the aa traditions that we all stick to as we know and accept that aa must go on and survive for the future alcoholics who will need aa in the future

when i was first around i wanted to change aa i also wanted to open a pub just for alcoholics that served no booze, so that they could go somewhere of an evening rather than sit in a room full of drunks talking : )
well it seemed like a good idea at the time to me : )

i soon learned the error of my thinking and how much the other memebers said thanks but no thanks
there was one guy who came into aa and thought it would be much better if aa played his Johny cash records rather than sit around talking as he was convinced the words in the records would be far better for us all to listen to

i am sure there is a list a mile long of what people come up with to change in aa but we stick to it how it is as its the safest way to make sure aa will carry on

keithj

Although also according to AA Tradition, if a group decided to play JC, that would be totally fine as well.

Trad 2:For our group purpose there is but one ultimate authority—a loving God as He may express Himself in our group conscience.

desypete

a group can do anything it wants to do, it can call its group conscience the devil if that's what they believe there god is or the conscience of the group is

i personally love the chair leg believers in aa

Pagekeeper

mfanch: My reply was not addressed to you. I was commenting on the pamphlet, where it says:

"Therefore I see no way of making non-alcoholic addicts into AA members. Experience says loudly that we can admit no exceptions, even though drug users and alcoholics happen to be first cousins of a sort. If we persist in trying this, I'm afraid it will be hard on the drug user himself, as well as on AA. We must accept the fact that no non-alcoholic, whatever his affliction, can be converted into an alcoholic AA member."

It then goes on to talking about special groups of AA members helping non-alcoholics, but it discourages these groups from affiliating themselves with AA.

Anyway, you seemed to take my comment personally, so I just wanted to clear that up.

As far as NA goes in your area, well I have no idea, but the NA where I live has the good and the not-so-good--at least that is what I've been told. I haven't been to an NA meeting in years. So I don't really know. I don't think it helps to bash NA, in any case. I know a few people from NA who visit our open meetings and they have solid programs and long term sobriety. So someone must be working the steps there.

NoelleR

In the AA pamphlet "The A.A. Group…Where it all begins" it states..........:

"...Closed meetings are for A.A. members only, or for those who have a drinking problem and “have a desire to stop drinking.”

Open meetings are available to anyone interested in Alcoholics Anonymous’ program of recovery from alcoholism. Non alcoholics may attend open meetings as observers..."

(o:
NoelleR

mfanch

Tradition 3 in the 12+12 (especially page 142, talking about the addict) sums it up nicely. He was welcomed and spread AAs message far and wide, not bothering anyone with his "other difficulty".

Essentially you are a member if you say so. (12/12 pg 139).

If a person is a big fat liar for saying "I'm an alcoholic" when they are perhaps not, then he can take it up with his sponsor in his step work. As long as he is learning to be an agent of HP and spreading the AA message.

My brother is a dry drunk. NEVER has he had a single sip of alcohol or taken a drug. He is miserable. It is so sad to watch. He looks just like I use to when I had my various clean times but no program. He asked me if I could take him through the steps. I told him no, that he needed to work with a non-related male. I asked an old-timer at my homegroup what I could tell my brother about what he could do about his discontent and he said, "Well, tell him to go drink and get done so he can come to AA, or just come to AA, I'll sponsor him."

Thanks for letting me share.

Riverbird

Why would a person need to lie and say they are an alcoholic at an open meeting? Anyone is welcome at an open meeting. I go to one open meeting that attracts a lot of different characters. They introduce themselves as who they are, and it's not an issue (addicts, compulsive over-eaters, al-anon, etc.). As long as they stick to the topic and talk about the solution I really don't care what specific issue brought them in the door. I also go to a closed meeting, which is obviously different. Neither one is better. Honestly the one I prefer depends on my mood at the time.

The only time I've had an issue with addicts in AA meetings is when they've gone in to long shares about things that alcoholics don't relate to. For example, at one meeting a girl was freaking out talking about how to handle her former drug dealer. I've never been to an NA meeting so I don't know if that would be appropriate to talk about there, but it made for a really awkward AA meeting! Had she shifted her share slightly to talking about how to separate from people from the past I wouldn't have had an issue with it, since we can all relate to that.

Gottalife

My understanding of an open meeting is that anyone with an interest in alcoholism may attend. But I have never heard it stated that open AA meetings are for the treatment of multiple other addictions and it is usual in our open meetings to ask that only alcoholics share.

One purpose of an open meeting is for non alcoholic members of our community to get an understanding of how AA works and what it does. Often this can be like third party 12 stepping.

The fifth tradition is also important in this context. "Each group has but one primary purpose - to carry its message to the alcoholic who still suffers"

In open meetings it is probably more important than ever to stay on message rather than convey the impression AA is something that it is not.

dsmaxis10

I don't think drugs should be talk about or tolerated in meetings. Mood and mind altering is not in the big book or 12n12 Bill Wilson took acid is he a relapser no cause AA has no opinon on outside issues. What if your schizophrenic or bi-polar and take mood and mind altering medication or even depression or anxiety are thjey not sober from drinking those with grave emotional and mental disorders do recover from alcoholism not there mental disorder theres alot of AA play doctors telling people not to take there medication. The big book says never belittle a good doctor or psychiratrist but you won't here that at a meeting. I think attacks have made aa worse beyond repair.

markz

Can a non-alcoholic pill or drug addict become an AA member?
Therefore I see no way of making non-alcoholic addicts into AA members.

http://www.aa.org/assets/en_US/P-35_...hanAlcohol.pdf

Tommyh

Mark,I have seen it tried before and it failed every time.
However,I have seen them take the steps out of the big book and they did fine

markz

Yeah, for sure. Around here, NA and CA is very weak, poor sobriety, limited lengths of sobriety. But you look around AA, great sobriety, very long lengths of sobriety.

Tommyh

same here

Music

If you've ever read or heard the AA Preamble, the reason is fairly simple. The preamble ends something like this. "Our primary purpose is to stay sober and to help other ALCOHOLICS to stay sober." I would never keep a drug addict from attending an AA meeting but I'd encourage him to be honest with the group by identifying himself as a drug addict and then not comment. I should've stated that I'm talking strictly about "Closed AA meetings". Closed meetings are for ALCOHOLICS ONLY. It's true that the 3rd tradition states that the "only requirement for AA is a desire to stop drinking", and a drug addict can go to a meeting and identify himself as "I have a desire to not drink" but at someone point, he's going to have to get honest. Dual addicted people come to AA all the time, like my son who identifies himself as a "drug addict and alcoholic" but confines his comments to his alcoholism. Comments about drug addiction have no place in a closed meeting. Once a closed meeting opens up to comments about drugs, food, or any other addictive substance, it ceases to be an AA meeting. It becomes a free for all and that's not AA.

natsume

I've attended a Buddhist 12-step recovery meeting off and on for over a year now, whose members may at any time come from any 12-step program (although the majority do indeed seem to be AA), and we almost never talk about the primary addiction and/or "ism". It is usually at least 90% focused on the application of the steps in out lives. In principle, this meeting is not meant to be a replacement for a primary 12-step program, but I have found it be one of the most useful and positive meetings I have attended regularly in the past year and a half.

Options are broadening...it is 2014.

SoberCAH

I have been a member of AA since 1988 and I have seen this drama played out several times over the years.

I have chosen to not get bogged down in it.

If this kind of thing is the prevailing mindset of a group, I probably don't want what they have.

P. 142 of the 12 and 12 says, with respect to this very issue, "What would the Master do"?

This authority is high enough for me.

I respect contrary opinions on this matter.