Is the Big Book a real reflection of AA?
Professional zombie fighter
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Texas
Posts: 341
Is the Big Book a real reflection of AA?
I apologize if this discussion has already taken place. I've searched and not found it on here or on Google. I also apologize if there's a more appropriate forum for this, but this particular corner of the forum seems to be where everyone hangs out.
Anyway but so I read the Big Book and the 12 book and ... They remind me of letters I get sometimes from a man who is only very mildly schizoid. Or else they remind me of, like, Victorian-era treatises I had to read in college.
Not relatable. Not something I can fit in my brain.
But to hear people who are IN AA tell it, I hear something else entirely. And then I listened to this wonderful speech Hawks linked to on my other thread (Clancy I?), and that, too, is so much more relatable and real to me than those books.
I'm the kind who always thinks you ought to do your homework (I won't say I'm the kind who actually *does* it, but in this case I am XD), so I thought if I don't like the books I won't like the program. True or false or something in between?
Anyway but so I read the Big Book and the 12 book and ... They remind me of letters I get sometimes from a man who is only very mildly schizoid. Or else they remind me of, like, Victorian-era treatises I had to read in college.
Not relatable. Not something I can fit in my brain.
But to hear people who are IN AA tell it, I hear something else entirely. And then I listened to this wonderful speech Hawks linked to on my other thread (Clancy I?), and that, too, is so much more relatable and real to me than those books.
I'm the kind who always thinks you ought to do your homework (I won't say I'm the kind who actually *does* it, but in this case I am XD), so I thought if I don't like the books I won't like the program. True or false or something in between?
Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,095
The BB is the only source containing the specific and precise directions for taking the 12 Steps. Yes, the language is a bit outdated, and the male oriented perspective can get tedious at times.
Many of us, when pushed sufficiently by the Step 1 dilemma, have found ourselves relating perfectly with the experience in the BB, although usually not at first. At takes a minute (and actually working the program) before that content resonates.
Many of us, when pushed sufficiently by the Step 1 dilemma, have found ourselves relating perfectly with the experience in the BB, although usually not at first. At takes a minute (and actually working the program) before that content resonates.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 343
The Big Book is not exactly engaging reading, is it? The language is archaic, and sometimes it seems poorly organized. Mine is a 2nd edition, so the personal stories in the back are really old. That said, I think that if you sift through you will find some real gems about staying sober. I could not have done it alone or with just the book. I needed people in AA who shared ESH to help me to apply the BB's lessons. Some people know the BB inside & out. I was never one of those, but I've always appreciated people who could refer me to certain places for more clarification. As with all things, I find it best to take what I need and leave the rest.
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 453
I actually enjoy the language of the BB, but then again I read a lot of older literature, so the language seems pretty modern to me. But I can see how it would be tedious for a lot of people. 
(And, yeah, it reflects the society of its time, so there are some attitudes that I have to roll my eyes at...)
It might help to go to a Big Book meeting. Depending on the meeting type, people will read short passages and then talk about their reactions or how they relate to it. This might help to make it more accessible to you. Also, having a sponsor read through it with you and talk about the important points (like identifying as an alcoholic and going through the steps) might make it easier to read through.
Try some meetings and see what you think. Being in a room full of people in AA is very different than reading the book alone.
Best to you.
(And, yeah, it reflects the society of its time, so there are some attitudes that I have to roll my eyes at...)
It might help to go to a Big Book meeting. Depending on the meeting type, people will read short passages and then talk about their reactions or how they relate to it. This might help to make it more accessible to you. Also, having a sponsor read through it with you and talk about the important points (like identifying as an alcoholic and going through the steps) might make it easier to read through.
Try some meetings and see what you think. Being in a room full of people in AA is very different than reading the book alone.
Best to you.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: uk
Posts: 2,548
Sure its wordy , like any old classic or even the Bible .
Important words however remain timeless .
Trust God .
Clean house .
Help others .
The book tells you specifically how to do that , the very fundamentals of a of a new set of principles , an awakening , a new direction .
Useful tools that might help , is a Big Book dictionary , a 12 step Group or study Group . a sponsor whom works from one book and 12 directions .
The Book has helped millions recover from a hopeless mind and Body so i guess "they" are reluctant to alter it ... Thank God .
Important words however remain timeless .
Trust God .
Clean house .
Help others .
The book tells you specifically how to do that , the very fundamentals of a of a new set of principles , an awakening , a new direction .
Useful tools that might help , is a Big Book dictionary , a 12 step Group or study Group . a sponsor whom works from one book and 12 directions .
The Book has helped millions recover from a hopeless mind and Body so i guess "they" are reluctant to alter it ... Thank God .
Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: liverpool, england
Posts: 1,708
there are so many different takes on things in aa and so many differnt types of meetings around, the reason there are different kinds of meetings are because people who might believe in the same thing come together to form there own meeting
you named clancy of you tube fame and there are many others that are you tube celebrity's around the usa aa circuit thankfully there are none in the uk as we wouldnt stand by and let peoples egos become so big
but they do put on a good show
aa meetings that i go to have real people in them living a real life sharing of before and after, they also touch on the book and the steps and how they were living and how they live today its a simple formula and covers it all in my eyes, rather than be to one sided either on the book or the steps or both
so i think you will find from meeting to meeting a difference, in my area though most of the meetings are the well balanced kind, i am so so lucky that it is that way for me as i dont know how i would of coped with aa if it was run like some of the other groups that i really do not like as there to controlling for my mind
they tend to hero worship people like clancy or the others who have found fame with there productions and that is not the way i have been brought up in aa
so try the meetings out for yourself and do different type of meetings so you can see what it is you like
as its about what you like and want rather than what i like and want
you named clancy of you tube fame and there are many others that are you tube celebrity's around the usa aa circuit thankfully there are none in the uk as we wouldnt stand by and let peoples egos become so big
but they do put on a good show
aa meetings that i go to have real people in them living a real life sharing of before and after, they also touch on the book and the steps and how they were living and how they live today its a simple formula and covers it all in my eyes, rather than be to one sided either on the book or the steps or both
so i think you will find from meeting to meeting a difference, in my area though most of the meetings are the well balanced kind, i am so so lucky that it is that way for me as i dont know how i would of coped with aa if it was run like some of the other groups that i really do not like as there to controlling for my mind
they tend to hero worship people like clancy or the others who have found fame with there productions and that is not the way i have been brought up in aa
so try the meetings out for yourself and do different type of meetings so you can see what it is you like
as its about what you like and want rather than what i like and want
Another Day in Paradise
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Upland, CA
Posts: 900
It has been my experience that the Big Book is a compilation of the trials of 100 men and one woman who contributed to the writing of the book and what they did to overcome the effects of alcohol in their lives. "Here are the steps we took" sums up what they felt was the solution to their problems with alcohol.
I have viewed the message and solution that the book offers as something that transcends a particular era or time because regardless of the time setting certain problems and the solutions to those problems remain the same.
Dishonesty, loss of self control and hopelessness were and are the same problems in 2000 BC, 1860, 1939 (when the BB was published) or today. As I have heard so many time, "look for the similarities not the differences."
Just my take on the relevance of a book written by and about people with whom I share a common problem and thankfully a solution to that problem.
I hope my thoughts will be of some help,
Jon
I have viewed the message and solution that the book offers as something that transcends a particular era or time because regardless of the time setting certain problems and the solutions to those problems remain the same.
Dishonesty, loss of self control and hopelessness were and are the same problems in 2000 BC, 1860, 1939 (when the BB was published) or today. As I have heard so many time, "look for the similarities not the differences."
Just my take on the relevance of a book written by and about people with whom I share a common problem and thankfully a solution to that problem.
I hope my thoughts will be of some help,
Jon
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: West Tn
Posts: 3,043
Helpimalive -
I found the BB and the 12 and 12 very difficult to read when I first got sober.
I recommend that you read some of the stories in the back of the BB.
That's what I did, along with going to a lot of BB meetings and step meetings.
Please stay with us and keep going to meetings and reading the BB and the 12 and 12, even if it's just a little at a time.
I found the BB and the 12 and 12 very difficult to read when I first got sober.
I recommend that you read some of the stories in the back of the BB.
That's what I did, along with going to a lot of BB meetings and step meetings.
Please stay with us and keep going to meetings and reading the BB and the 12 and 12, even if it's just a little at a time.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Mgm, AL
Posts: 1,000
Text of AA
I didn't identify with the text of Alcoholics Anonymous either, and went to great lengths to explain why it was of little use. I was different, of course, and having hundreds of hours in graduate programs, I was entitled to critique it, wasn't I?
Doctor's Opinion? We know so much more about diseases today, don't we? There's medicine for this stuff, right? I read through Bill W.'s story and scoffed--couldn't relate. The Chapter to the Agnostics? No need to read that particular chapter. The book itself was archaic, the language was dated, and clearly it was written to and eighth grade reading level... And I still didn't understand how people were getting and staying sober based on some stupid sentences in order on the walls...
See, I learned about "Contempt Prior To Investigation," after doing the Twelve Steps. It's actually in Appendix II in the back of the book... I couldn't make any sense out of the text because I was covered up in judgementalism, ego, fear, and self-righteousness. It wasn't until a sponsor took me through the steps and I worked them that I was able to get a Joe & Charlie "Big Book Study" CD and understand that the words meant what they said, not what I was interpreting them to mean.
I was told to read the black print, not the stuff in between it, and to use a dictionary if the words were too confusing. And I managed to get through the first 164 pages without drinking, and I managed to stay sober after a spiritual awakening, and I managed to stay sober in spite of my SELF.
The Big Book is a textbook--it's meant to be studied, applied, practiced, and reviewed. The exam for the study material takes place every single day in the world of the living and I need to refer to it regularly. That's been my experience, and if you want to supplement it (as I would recommend) with some other AA-conference-approved literature, you'll get the same peculiar writing styles because it's something alcoholics learn to cling to, and phrases that were once corny one-liners become life-saving rings of truth in a sea of false evidence appearing real. It's the language of the heart, the music of sobriety that carries depth and weight and doesn't allow for escape clauses. You may just come to find it one of the most useful (i.e., only) reference book you've ever kept in reach.
Suggestion: Ask someone who has read it before to go through it with you one-on-one. Do the activities as suggested. See if you don't get a different perspective after learning the language of sobriety and recovery. What have you got to lose? If it doesn't work, your misery can be easily refunded...
Peaceness.
Doctor's Opinion? We know so much more about diseases today, don't we? There's medicine for this stuff, right? I read through Bill W.'s story and scoffed--couldn't relate. The Chapter to the Agnostics? No need to read that particular chapter. The book itself was archaic, the language was dated, and clearly it was written to and eighth grade reading level... And I still didn't understand how people were getting and staying sober based on some stupid sentences in order on the walls...
See, I learned about "Contempt Prior To Investigation," after doing the Twelve Steps. It's actually in Appendix II in the back of the book... I couldn't make any sense out of the text because I was covered up in judgementalism, ego, fear, and self-righteousness. It wasn't until a sponsor took me through the steps and I worked them that I was able to get a Joe & Charlie "Big Book Study" CD and understand that the words meant what they said, not what I was interpreting them to mean.
I was told to read the black print, not the stuff in between it, and to use a dictionary if the words were too confusing. And I managed to get through the first 164 pages without drinking, and I managed to stay sober after a spiritual awakening, and I managed to stay sober in spite of my SELF.
The Big Book is a textbook--it's meant to be studied, applied, practiced, and reviewed. The exam for the study material takes place every single day in the world of the living and I need to refer to it regularly. That's been my experience, and if you want to supplement it (as I would recommend) with some other AA-conference-approved literature, you'll get the same peculiar writing styles because it's something alcoholics learn to cling to, and phrases that were once corny one-liners become life-saving rings of truth in a sea of false evidence appearing real. It's the language of the heart, the music of sobriety that carries depth and weight and doesn't allow for escape clauses. You may just come to find it one of the most useful (i.e., only) reference book you've ever kept in reach.
Suggestion: Ask someone who has read it before to go through it with you one-on-one. Do the activities as suggested. See if you don't get a different perspective after learning the language of sobriety and recovery. What have you got to lose? If it doesn't work, your misery can be easily refunded...
Peaceness.
Guest
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,476
The BB is the basic text book of AA.
I know that, because it says just that in the first page of the preface.
The great news is twofold.
One - people who have been safe, sane and sober for decades have used the same book and can interpret it much better than I can.... They pass on their experience. (Clancy is an example of just that)
Two - I can keep reading and studying the same book and learn, just like they did, how to get safe, sane and sober.
After 30 years of alcoholic drinking (I'm 42) It is like starting life all over again.
So "something in between " sums it up nicely.
Your a pretty smart cookie helpimalive.... Nutshelled it with that one
I know that, because it says just that in the first page of the preface.
The great news is twofold.
One - people who have been safe, sane and sober for decades have used the same book and can interpret it much better than I can.... They pass on their experience. (Clancy is an example of just that)
Two - I can keep reading and studying the same book and learn, just like they did, how to get safe, sane and sober.
After 30 years of alcoholic drinking (I'm 42) It is like starting life all over again.
So "something in between " sums it up nicely.
Your a pretty smart cookie helpimalive.... Nutshelled it with that one
Friend of Jimmy B
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: NYC
Posts: 667
I don't believe it reflects the fellowship of AA. It is the program of AA as written by the founding members. If you want what they have then there it is. If not then feel free to find another path. There's a line in the book that says we don't claim a monopoly on recovery.
Echoing what others have said, it's archaic, sexist, whatever-ist and may just save your life. It did mine. If you get past the language it's actually quite revolutionary and for me is not the end of the journey but the start.
-allan
Echoing what others have said, it's archaic, sexist, whatever-ist and may just save your life. It did mine. If you get past the language it's actually quite revolutionary and for me is not the end of the journey but the start.
-allan
Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 158
Is the Big Book a real reflection of AA?
Yes, especially the numerous case studies ("PERSONAL STORIES").
Those case studies, including "Bill's Story," were put in the BB to give a clear-cut idea of the program of AA working in the lives of its members.
Yes, especially the numerous case studies ("PERSONAL STORIES").
Those case studies, including "Bill's Story," were put in the BB to give a clear-cut idea of the program of AA working in the lives of its members.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NC
Posts: 1,737
The big book can be tough sledding, especially early on when our ability to retain and understand complex ideas is limited. If you want a modern day English version, check out the NA text. Once you have the ideas down, re-read the big book, you will likely get a lot more out of it.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 1,130
I agree with the other people here that the more time you spend with the Big Book, the more useful it is.
However, if you are struggling with it because of its anachronistic text I would suggest that you read the stories in the back and the other AA book Living Sober which is really practical.
However, if you are struggling with it because of its anachronistic text I would suggest that you read the stories in the back and the other AA book Living Sober which is really practical.
Friend of Jimmy B
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: NYC
Posts: 667
Originally Posted by CousinA 
There's a line in the book that says we don't claim a monopoly on recovery.
"Upon therapy for the alcoholic himself, we surely have no monopoly."
There is another line in Working With Others stating "We have no monopoly on God; we merely have an approach that worked with us."
Those early members sure were clear about not wanting to be monopolists and I will be forever grateful to them for that.
Apologies for any confusion on my part. Like my grandma used to say, the first 100 years are the hardest.
-allan
Professional zombie fighter
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Texas
Posts: 341
Sounds like it might just be written in a language some people have to learn then maybe?
Also sounds like I can't know what AA is like till I try it. Which is what I wanted to do anyway ... I think I'll put the question of how to do that in a different thread though.
Also sounds like I can't know what AA is like till I try it. Which is what I wanted to do anyway ... I think I'll put the question of how to do that in a different thread though.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: De
Posts: 1,333
Just like a Fine wine, the real depth of the Big Book developes with time. The way to understand it is to practice the steps in our daily life. The best way to to do that is to get a sponsor who has worked through The Twelve Steps and who can guide you through them.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: West Tn
Posts: 3,043
Glad you are here, help.
There is some real wisdom on this thread.
The BB may seem a little like it is the King James version of a program of recovery, but, for me, it has been my salvation (God and AA, in that order for me).
There is some real wisdom on this thread.
The BB may seem a little like it is the King James version of a program of recovery, but, for me, it has been my salvation (God and AA, in that order for me).
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