Mrrryah1

I find it very annoying some of the conflicting information I experience in AA. I have to vent right now.

People always say that this is a “one day at a time program” and that the newcomer who is only 2 weeks away from his last drink might be more “sober” than the old guy with “25 years” who’s never worked the steps and is spiritually sick, etc. etc. Which I totally agree with.

So what’s with the judgement towards newcomers when it comes to doing service nowadays? All of these requirements like “minimum 1 year sobriety” to do this or that. I don’t think that Bill Wilson was picky about who handled the money or who chaired a meeting for god sake when AA was just founded – and they seemed to manage quite fine. I don’t see how this new way supports our 12 traditions at all. We all need to work the steps to get sober and stay sober – so why are we limiting certain activities to “x days sobriety” etc. etc.? Where does it mention this in the 12 traditions also known as "how it works"?

Here's what happened.

My sponsor has been looking for volunteers for this AA convention in our city. I’m 28 days sober and she has me manning the registration table (taking cash, giving out bracelets).

I tell her that my male friend who is currently in treatment would like to volunteer as well. She immediately says “well I can’t have him doing anything that involves $$$.”

Ummm – he’s actually 47 days sober and I’m 28 – so what’s the problem if we’re going by “x days”? Is it because you know me, and you know I have a good job, money in the bank, etc. etc. so you can “trust me”? Well – I’m just a drug addict/alcoholic trying to get sober – as is he – so what makes me “special”?

I was actually offended for the guy and he doesn't even know this conversation happened. Obviously this situation has to do with an individual personality (my sponsor) – but it got me thinking about all of the service positions I hear being read out in meetings. Many that I would like to volunteer for – but I can’t because I’m not “enough days away from my last drink”.

What is with this?!?!?! Restricting newcomers from doing service. Not cool in my opinion. Am I missing something??

legna

Let me preface this by saying that I believe you have a valid point.

I will say that I had a service position day one in AA - cleaning out ashtrays after the meeting back in the day when there were such things. To that end, I might amend your statement to "Restricting newcomers from doing [specific types of] service."

If it is of any comfort to you at all, you have caused this old-timer to put on his thinking cap and consider if you are right. The jury is still out for me, but I'm glad you brought it up.

alumni

I've been to many different AA meetings and home groups. Some obviously have different approaches but I haven't seen an example of anyone, even a newcomer, not being able to volunteer to be of service at any level.
I think you should look around for different meetings. Recovery is hard enough without chafing at restrictions imposed by the guidelines of your support group.

CousinA

People say a lot of things at AA meetings. That picture of the "man on the bed", it's Bill and Bob meeting AA #3. Bill had what, maybe six months and Bob a couple of weeks. I'm not clear on the exact numbers but I'm sure someone here will correct me So where would any of us be if the "first 100" had time requirements? That said, I think there is some service where it's good to have time and experience - GSR, Intergroup Rep and probably group treasurer are a few. Speaking from my own experience, I might be dead if they told me to wait 90 days or whatever to get involved in service. I was sober a couple of weeks when I was told to help read literature to a member who did not speak English as a first language and had difficulty with the books. Not long after I helped my sponsor sign the DUI cards (yeah I know). I still can't tell you what god is or isn't but I sure as sh.. began to find it cleaning ashtrays and in a coffee pot. -allan

Fly N Buy

HA! Ya, I get it!
Our group has a minimum 6 month requirement before one can chair. My sponsor forgot about this and one day suggested I sign up to chair, which I did. Then MR. RULE came around and pointed out the infraction! I was pissed for two days.

So, I reflected on the resentment. It was my pride being hurt! I was able to let it go, and in my mind grew a little more on the spiritual side because of it.

All groups have a conscience meeting, usually once a month. If it really bugs you go express your thoughts kindly and gently.

Fiefdoms p***me off, but they are there. I take em in stride now that I am Mr. Sober wiz at day 106...ha, haa.
Stay cool jack and keep on truckin.


peace

CAPTAINZING2000

It's a good way to help your sobriety early in recovery by doing service work.

If, you stay around the tables long enough you're going to hear of someone taking the money from the treasury. As a whole, I don't think that happens any more often then the general population.

Mrrryah1

I understand I should look at the reason I am affected by this, and yes, it's probably pride as well.

However, if people just start violating the traditions all over the place, does that mean everyone should just clean their side of the street, accept it and move on? I don't think so... people need to voice this and make others aware of it.

The problem I'm having is this isn't actually a "group" or individual AA meeting. I know each group is autonomous unless it affects AA as a whole bla bla bla. But this is the central office in my city. Posting service positions with minimum requirements of sobriety.

It just doesn't feel right that Joe Blow with 25 years away from his last drink, due to sheer stubbornness, who has never had a sponsor, never worked a set of steps, comes to meetings to whine and complain about his life, is unemployed and suffering from mental illness... would be more qualified than Jane Doe, who is only 60 days sober, but has worked a full set of steps with her sponsor, has a full time job, is attending a meeting every day, is spiritually fit, etc. etc.,.... but just because Joe Blow has a higher # of days away from his last drink, he is more trustworthy and must have less motive to steal, etc. etc.?

It just feels like an injustice is being done here. To me, anyways.

Fly N Buy

Sounds like your sponsor will be on your resentment list during step 4! I know mine was......

I feel ya, for sure and don't have any answers. I listened to a speaker on YT the other day and he stated that AA had changed in some regards and not always for the better - long time sober gent. He mentioned being at a meeting in last few years and a guy walked in drunk. Two members looked at each other and whispered......Can't believe that guy walked in here drunk!!! This was talked about in another thread - incredible an intoxicated gent would seek out and AA meeting!! LOL

I too looked at some things and thought WTH is this. THAT's Not what Bill W wanted!?!?

I will say this, no we shouldn't roll over for any gent who simply is flexing his tenure. But, for me it becomes instruction in gaining humility.

Humility ( still very much a work in progress = me ) is foundational in maintaining sobriety and doing steps. It doesn't matter how one get humble but these type of issues that crop up can truly speed one towards that path. I need a large dose of humble, in fact - give me two servings, please.

Just curious, but is "Joe Blow" your sponsor or simply an example? If so why would you have a sponsor that hasn't worked the steps?? Or am I missing something......

I understand you being miffed. I have been/would be too! But, I guess - it's how we process that to HELP us on the path to quality sobriety.

Not making any attempts here to be the AA guru, cause I am not. Just talking it through I suppose.......
Hang in there and don't drink!!

RumHound

The central office is a group and should be having a regular group conscience meeting. If you wish to contest the minimums, you can go to whoever established the minimums.
These do happen from time to time.

Accept or change...

heath480

When it comes to handling AA money,it is a requirement that the person has a minimum of 12month's continuous sobriety.

This is written in the guidelines here in the UK.


Lots of service positions have minimum sobriety requirements,one of the reasons for this is to protect the newly sober person.But there are also service positions that can be done early on.

Nobody has done you any injustice.Your sponsor acted correctly.



.

awuh1

I must confess to having mixed feelings about your post. I agree that restricting service opportunities is generally not a good idea. Yet a few positions, such as treasurer, could in fact be detrimental to a new person.

If your intergroup is attempting to impose rules on a group (such as time requirements for a chair position), I would have real problems with this. My experience has been that district, intergroup and area positions are often populated by control freaks. (We recently had an area chairperson who would gain control of those present at area meetings by loudly shouting out the first line of the serenity prayer, lol). Individual groups sometimes need to assert themselves in these cases, but it should be the group as a whole that does so.

All that being said, how important is it really? Sometimes the most productive thing you can do is make a good natured comment about something that seems absurd. Often, just raising peoples awareness is enough to make positive changes in the long run. Isn't that what this whole thing is about?

UncleMeat69

My first service position in AA was "Coffee Maker."
I took the job for 6 months but ended up doing it for
a full year. When my first sponsor told me it is the
"Top Position" in AA I knew it was for me. What other
organization in the world lets a newcomer start at the top ?

Tommyh

looks like a resentment against the sponsor and old timer
so much for being spiritually fit

Joe Nerv

OK. I'm gonna be the bad guy here, and hope I don't come off as the bad guy .

First, while I can't say for certain, I'm going to guess that the intergroup in your area is simply suggesting guidelines that some people are understanding as law. Each group is autonomous, but you know that already.

As far as the actual time qualifications placed on the commitments, I think it's important to look at the bigger picture, and not take it as something personal. There is no doubt that someone with 28 days sober might have boatloads more integrity than somebody with 20 years, but the chances are a lot higher that the 28 day person might pick up again as opposed to the person with 20 years. And of course that could be argued, but there are a lot of other reasons also. Most people who are newly sober are really struggling to keep it together. Many people newly sober still are attached to their old ways, which might not be too trustworthy. Putting time restrictions on commitments saves groups from a lot of unnecessary problems and hurt feelings. While I'm pretty certain you wouldn't steal from a group, trust me when I tell you there are many new people in AA who would. In a heartbeat. Most people who are around for a while usually start picking up on the spirit of things in AA, and again - while they still might not be perfect - they are absolutely less likely to steal or act irresponsibly than Joe Blow who just made his first few meetings. Time restrictions keep people from unnecessarily having to make judgement calls on people. Keeps things simple, and neat so to speak.

Further, and more importantly, if there were no time restrictions any group of drunks could decide they want to start running things. Go to a couple of meetings, and take over. How well do you think that would work out?

Most groups I know of suggest 90 days before taking any commitment with real responsibility behind it (chairing a meeting, secretary, etc). I think it's an EXCELLENT idea for people to earn the right to certain things. 90 days is not a very long time... and well, if someone can't do that, then IMO they shouldn't have those responsible commitments. With 90 days they also have a much better idea of all things AA, including most importantly, staying away from that first drink.

Other commitments people are often "required" (which is always a very loose term in AA) to have 6 months, a year, or even 2, and I think this also is an excellent idea. Again, it will keep Joe Blow with 2 weeks sober still on very shaky ground from becoming a GSR if nobody else wants the position. If he's brand new 2 weeks in AA he absolutely should NOT be GSR. He couldn't possibly know enough about the workings of AA to handle the responsibility.

Final note is that if someone with less time than recommended for a position really desired it, it could always be brought up at a group conscience. Nothing in AA is written in stone. Most traditions, on the shades and in the actual working of the rooms, are born of many years experience. I have no problem whatsoever with people needing to be sober for certain amounts of time before taking on responsibilities. And I don't believe there's anything hypocritical or wrong with earning certain responsibilities. Just my opinion of course .

My suggestion is to suck it up. We all did. 2 sober years from now I believe you'll feel a lot different about it all.

jdooner

I had lots of problems with AA in the first 30, 60, 90, 120 days.

My guess is your anger has nothing to do with the rules.

GracieLou

I did the same as you at two months sober. Ran the register for Founders Days with my sponsor. I believe the only reason I was allowed to do this was because my sponsor was with me the entire time.

My sponsor made a point of telling me that my first drawer count was right on the money.

IMO the trust that was placed in you was because your sponsor knew you and was working with you during this service work.

What makes you special is that you have a sponsor. That sponsor is taking you under their wing and doing service work with you or is taking the responsibility for you. They were not willing to do that for someone they were not working with and do not know.

That said, these sort of rules is why I left my first HG. I was allowed to set up the meeting and break it down. No sober time requirement for that but to chair I had to have a year, to be secretary two years and treasurer was three years.

I wanted to get into service and although setting up and clearing is service I wanted more so I joined another group that already had me place in the secretary position even though I was not a HG member yet. I am still with that HG and that is were I give back.

If I may make a suggestion.....Worry about you. Your program, your recovery, your work, your service. Worry about what you are doing and not what others are doing. I was always told accept it and if you can't, change it.

Once you get more time start a group that allows others to do service work from day one if you like. All groups/people are different and you can decided what works best for you.

Sugah

Sometimes, the suggested time requirements (and in my area, they are suggested, not set in stone) aren't as much about whether someone will walk off with the treasury as they are about priorities.

I've seen new folks get caught up in service and mistake it for recovery. Doing service in AA (especially general service, but at the HG level, too) requires humility, and as a raging, ego-filled drunk, the only way I know to get the necessary humility is to take the steps.

Peace & Love,
Sugah

CousinA

One of the old timers in my group asked me if I wanted to be the chairman. I told him yes so he directed me to the chairs and told me to help set them up. there were a lot of chairs. Like maybe 100. It helped knock the smartass right out of me.

-a

Pagekeeper

It's up to the home group or the committee--the group conscience of this particular convention.

If the group conscience of the convention decided service positions were to be assigned according to the discretion of members with longer term sobriety, or something along those lines, than your sponsor is using her best judgement to make decisions she feels are best for the convention as a whole. She is acting as a trusted servant.

skg

Responsibility and accountability are new concepts to most people in recovery. Work the steps, take suggestions, and silence the Stinkin' Thinkin' committee. If you're like me, your best ideas got you right where you are. Let someone who's been sober a while do the heavy lifting and cease fighting everything and everyone.

Do you want to be right or do you want to be happy?