desypete

you miss my point sorry
i wasnt complaining about time limits on people sharing at the meeting i agree with you as i have been bored to tears myself with these long winded wind bags

my point is why do we seem to put limits or restraints on new comers when in the early days the new comers clearly would of had no restraints on them as people would be gald to here them talk in the meetings

like bill and bob when they took the thrid memeber into there home for a meeting did they say you can not share until you have been around for 12 months ?

Carlotta

Oh ok, I did miss your point, I thought you were complaining about meetings which use egg timers LOL.

Tommyh

several old sayings come to mind by reading this thread
it is suggested to listen for the first year and take the cotton out of your ears and put it in your mouth

the oldtimers had reasons for that

desypete

but they never took the cotton wool out of there ears and shoved it in there gobs
so why tell new comers to do it when they didn't ?

like i said bill and bob certainly couldnt of told the new comers around when aa was just starting up to sit there and say nothing and listen to them 2 speak

Ken33xx

Actually I wish many old-timers would do that. I prefer listening to those new in AA much more.

Helps keep the importance of sobriety fresh for me.

Patriciae

Hi Tommy,

Its amazing that back then in 1955 this simple Program of Recovery had a 75% recovery rate. Today, we can't claim that, nowhere near that, its about 5% to 10% now. When I attend AA meetings, and they open the AA meeting by saying... we ask that only those with 90 days or less raise their hand, we want to hear only from newcomers first, and then we will open the meeting for anyone to share.

That completely confuses the hell out of me.

The entire AA meeting is listening to newcomers who do not have a defense against the first drink and have no clue how to get that defense against the first drink. But there we are, instead of listening to the Message of AA and the Solution.... we are listening to the Mess.

Now that is not a judgement of newcomers, they are exactly where they are suppose to be at, and the sad thing is, that is where they will remain until learning to listen to real Recovery... instead of talking.

Listening to an entire AA meeting of those who are brand new to AA, certainly isn't about the teaching and practicing of the 12 Steps.

In the forward to the 1955 second edition of Alcoholics Anonymous, there is an estimate that of alcoholics who came and really tried, 50 percent got permanently sober, 25 percent got permanently sober with some relapses, and 25 percent showed improvement.

In my experience the difference is in bringing people back to the Spiritual Solution. In many A.A. meetings today they don't talk about how to stay sober through the 12 steps, the Solution. They now conduct group therapy meetings, not A.A. meetings. And the newcomers, oldtimers and everyone in between pay the price for that one.

“Sobriety—the freedom from alcohol—through the teaching and practicing of the twelve steps is the sole purpose of an AA group.” — Bill Wilson

Patriciae

Oh but those Old timers did take the cotton out of their ears, so they could listen to Real Recovery and not have to listen to My day, My way.
That is why they are..Old Timers

Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path.

Tommyh

you are excally right Patricie

here`s a little something we read when opening our meeting

“Sobriety—the freedom from alcohol—through the teaching and practicing of the twelve steps is the sole purpose of an AA group.”

It was voted by group conscience that the purpose of this meeting is to help alcoholics achieve sobriety by the studying, discussing, and practicing of the twelve steps as they are laid out in the Big Book.

It has been our hard-learned experience that other methods did not work with us. Some of us have tried other methods and our results were disastrous, until we looked at the basic and simple approach the Big Book offers.

We ask only that discussion be limited to the step being studied tonight. It has become apparent to us that when we stopped blaming people, places, and things for our problems, and decided to take an honest and fearless look at ourselves as the root cause of our alcoholism, and decided to apply these twelve principles in our lives, we got better.

muvinon

Most conventions offer a "Longtimer's Only" meeting which packs the room. The sobriety time requirements vary, of course, depending on location.

Some areas have meetings that are strictly for member with a certain amount of sobriety time and up.

Some groups never ask for volunteers and only call on people, often calling on the same people again and again. Some groups use Red Ball method, where the person sharing picks the next person sharing. Some groups have a policy of 6 months sobriety to chair a meeting. Some groups actually state.....please listen if you have 30 days or less of sobriety.

These practices are up to the group, decided by group conscience and, therefore, quite OK. Groups are autonomous.

I personally enjoy getting to know newcomers, and that's why I call on them to share. And most people are reasonable, catching onto a 5 minute timeframe.

Riverbird

We have big mike and podium speaker meetings. Did that once, no desire to do it again! lol My homegroup is growing in leaps and bounds, but we still manage to squeeze us all around tables (with a few extra chairs). I think we've been averaging about 60 or so lately. It's cozy, but I still much prefer being squashed in next to people over having to stand up at a podium!

Random question that came up for me while reading the responses...how much sober time do you think it takes to be considered an old-timer?

Ken33xx

Good. I like that. Such a meeting isn't for me but I like the rules are made clear.

Years ago and out of the blue I was asked years back to speak at a meeting in Pacific Beach, San Diego Cal. I said fine but half way through a guy stood up and walked out. When I was finished nobody said much to me and I thought I must be a pretty crappy speaker. In retrospect I realized my experience wasn't what that group (or at least some in attendance) wanted to hear. I had a real lousy experience and if they "vetted" me beforehand this might have been avoided. I guessed they figured because I walked into room (I was visitor) I knew what I was getting into.

Ken33xx

Percentages? I think they're all suspect.

But as far as why some people end up leaving the rooms of AA? I'm sure there are a lot of reasons but pushing recovery on newcomers imo doesn't help. There are members that attend my regular meetings who are in "real recovery" and you should see it. They all but climb over chairs to get at those new. Does anyone actually believe pushing the program on people is wise? Yes, I know it works for some but how many does it chase away?

I recall my second meeting where some members were on me like white on rice. It was such a turn-off but fortunately I had gone to a meeting the night before (my first) which was a very positive experience.

Ryno03272009

I think encouraging new comers to share is a great idea! It will do two important things at once... Get them involved in the meeting, let other people know something(s) about them. However, I am not a big fan of the idea that someone sharing will encourage old timers to the program to reach out and "help" them. A person cannot be helped unless they want help. It doesn't matter how much they speak at a meeting. On a similar note, allowing a person early in sobriety will most definitely encourage others to reach out to them and get to know them and may result in that newcomer getting a job at the meeting as a greeter, coffee, pamphlets, etc.

I attended speaker meetings only early in my sobriety and Thinking back, i would have been shy to share my story but I remember being asked to share 1year into my sobriety and it felt great and I made lots more friends after that and I am sure sharing earlier would have done me more good than bad.

AAecon

I would not attend any meeting where new comers were not allowed to share.

These rules are just made to oppress others and inflate the egos of old timers. No one is perfect in AA, and no one should have authority over others in the groups in my opinion.

Patriciae

What I shared was not about pushing the Program on newcomers. But lets face reality, when a newcomer shows up at an AA Group meeting, they are there to get help to stay sober. There is a Solution for that, its called the 12 Steps of AA. I just love newcomers, I reach out to them all the time at my AA Home Group, as do others. But to sit and listen to newcomers who have no clue how to stay sober or what the Program of AA is.... then that is not beneficial to the newcomer or anyone else at the AA meeting.

In my experience people are leaving AA Groups because the 12 Step Program of Recovery isn't part of the AA meeting any longer. When I got sober it was, and there was no if's and's or but's about it. Real Recovery was at every single AA Group meeting there was. Most people got sober, stayed sober and passed on this simple Program. In my own AA Home Group in 1988, 90% were sober and working this simple Program in their own life and passing it on to newcomers who came through those doors of AA, asking for help. We welcomed them with open arms and we were very honest with them..... we suggested they sit and listen at the AA meetings, and to get a Sponsor, because venting and complaining were best shared with an AA Sponsor.

When the Treatment Centers got involved (and I have nothing against Treatment Centers, they do what they are suppose to do, get the booze out) they gave newly sober people information and some good information too, nothing to do with Alcoholics Anonymous, and much to do about "therapy".
But those newcomers began coming into AA meetings and all they wanted to talk about is what they learned at the Treatment Centers, therapy. Slowly but surely the 12 Steps of Real Recovery were watered down, and for the most part simply disappeared from Our AA Group meetings. Replaced with My Day, My Way which has no real recovery at all....because just venting never helped anyone to stay sober.

The Fellowship has gotten away from why we are there... we are there to pass on the Program of AA, the 12 Steps. The Program of Alcoholics Anonymous has never changed, Recovery from Alcoholism has never changed..... but the Fellowship has.

There is a simple reason that AA used to have very high Recovery percentages and some don't any longer.... and it is as simple as this:

“Sobriety—the freedom from alcohol—through the teaching and practicing of the twelve steps is the sole purpose of an AA group.” — Bill Wilson


"Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path."

Ken33xx

Well, you might not. However, there are plenty of members in "real recovery" (see Pacific Group) who do. It's their way or the highway and heaven help anyone who disagrees. I'm not surprised people run for the hills. The cult-like vibe some meetings give off is unappealing to say the least.

fraankie

i went to a group that had
"2 minute sharing" with a timekeeper
i stopped going there because of that

it's a group conscience thing
those groups are far and inbetween


best
fraankie

Ken33xx

While I agree venting without a solution isn't something I want to hear either. I'm equally turned off by meetings where it's all smiles/happy recovery talk with a creepy vibe.

Fortunately, there are many AA meetings which are somewhere in the middle and that's the way I like it.